Guild Wars 2

Has anyone tried the newly buffed Invigorating Precision in PvP with the standard 26006 D/P build? Is it worth dropping Executioner for?

I realise that they serve different purposes, executioner being better for finishing off targets below 50% hp and ganking really squishy targets, where as invig allows you to be in a fight for longer before having to disengage, but in any match there will be situations where these would both be useful.

the sustain it adds to 26006 isn’t enough by itself to warrant dropping HK or Exe in my opinion, even buffed.

Tried the IP, AR, and Malice. Got my butt kicked several times. Not enough healing outside of spamming away in the middle of a zerg.

Odyssey.2613:

Tried the IP, AR, and Malice. Got my butt kicked several times. Not enough healing outside of spamming away in the middle of a zerg.

Good to hear, kinda… I will just keep it for pve hehe.

I was afraid to put on AR, SoM, and IP and try. I just feel so wet noodled without one or the other gm traits (when I go down that line).

I tried a p/p 0/6/2/0/6 build with invigorating precision, and I’ve surprisingly been kicking everyone’s butt in unranked. I even made some people rage and block me for beating them 1v1 with p/p.

But overall, it’s really not worth it. The healing you get back is minimal, and barely offsets the damage you receive. The only reason I was able to find any success with p/p was because I also used signet of malice. 1 unload healed about 1.5-2k hp with both of them working together with 80% + crit chance. Without signet of malice, I didn’t even notice the healing at all.

You’re better off ignoring the trait and playing as normal. The patch literally did nothing to the thief’s meta.

It can not work very well as a stand alone source of heals. Its effectiveness is based upon maximizing crits/attacks and supplementing it with other heal sources. There nothing wrong with this anymore then the 20 percent extra damage on enemies under 50 percent health is made effective by having more damage outright.

It simply illogical to dismiss the heal because “it not noticeable unless supplemented with other sources”.

As such one needs sources of rapid attacks (preferably AOE types) along with a high crit rate. In p/p the combination of Unload with Cactus Fruit salad is very effective. The salad gives 325 life steal per second at a rate of 66 percent on crits. You will have 40 percent added to condition durations.

Take sundering strikes and a few unloads can easily add 15 stacks of vulnerability. This means more damage out (rivaling that 20 percent GM trait of 20 percent more damage) along with more heals IN.

1) 325 lifesteal is 325 heal + 325 damage
2) 325 /15 * 100 = 2167 … critical hit damage to match and that is per second??

8% lifesteal for this trait would be better I think.

Tried S/D and D/D with both IP and AR, but the amount of healing is still way too small to be a viable choice in WVW vs single or multiple targets. Which left my thief playing exactly like I would without the trait, which was disappointing.

Needs to be doubled again, possibly with a 1sec CD to limit.

babazhook.6805:

It simply illogical to dismiss the heal because “it not noticeable unless supplemented with other sources”.

No, not when he is asking for a particular build where the only other supplements available to it are food, mug, and signet of malice. Those alone with probably one of the glassier builds available to thief are not enough to play more offensively to take benefit of it and it be valuable over other options in Critical Strikes.

In general though, I agree with you, and it is workable. I still wouldn’t call it amazing or anything.

Selver.1307:

babazhook.6805:

It simply illogical to dismiss the heal because “it not noticeable unless supplemented with other sources”.

No, not when he is asking for a particular build where the only other supplements available to it are food, mug, and signet of malice. Those alone with probably one of the glassier builds available to thief are not enough to play more offensively to take benefit of it and it be valuable over other options in Critical Strikes.

In general though, I agree with you, and it is workable. I still wouldn’t call it amazing or anything.

Its nice sustain against residual damage in a teamfight with shortbow, but I don’t feel like it helps too much for what the thief’s role is, nor does it provide a sufficient buffer for the thief’s weaknesses.

Selver.1307:

babazhook.6805:

It simply illogical to dismiss the heal because “it not noticeable unless supplemented with other sources”.

No, not when he is asking for a particular build where the only other supplements available to it are food, mug, and signet of malice. Those alone with probably one of the glassier builds available to thief are not enough to play more offensively to take benefit of it and it be valuable over other options in Critical Strikes.

In general though, I agree with you, and it is workable. I still wouldn’t call it amazing or anything.

I was replying to LOKI who mentioned trying it in a p/p build wherein he concluded that without SOM the heals not sufficient to warrant taking.

P/P has absolutely no use for hidden killer so one must compare the value of Executioner to IP. (P/P has little to no stealth and a high crit p/p build has little use for hidden killer)

It my contention in such a build IP is superior to executioner. One can easily generate 4k unloads. Even without SOM this means 600 health per unload. This is significant on its own. This is more health then is being gained by someone in hiding with shadows rejuvenation each and every second and is doing damage as it does so.

(Throw in that 325 health steal each second and the benefits even more pronounced. IP PLUS that health steal is like having two heal slots. I suggest a better heal choice is Withdraw in a p/p build so you can have a spike heal as well)

20 percent more damage will only occur after the enemy under 50 percent health. In a P/P build sans stealth one will have little opportunity to take advantage of an enemy under 50 percent health if ones own health not significantly higher. A p/p build using IP will get that enemy down to 50 percent health just as fast as will a p/p build using executioner.

The difference will be the P/P build will benefit from IP throughout the battle and will still benefit if said target heals to over 50 percent. The p/p build with IP will generally have more health when that target reaches 50 percent. if more then one target in range and one is using ricochet the IP user will benefit even more and will even gain health off nearby creatures.

In battles when an enemy sees his or own health dropping even as that of his opponent remains near full they tend to try and break off combat.

babazhook.6805:

Selver.1307:

babazhook.6805:

It simply illogical to dismiss the heal because “it not noticeable unless supplemented with other sources”.

No, not when he is asking for a particular build where the only other supplements available to it are food, mug, and signet of malice. Those alone with probably one of the glassier builds available to thief are not enough to play more offensively to take benefit of it and it be valuable over other options in Critical Strikes.

In general though, I agree with you, and it is workable. I still wouldn’t call it amazing or anything.

I was replying to LOKI who mentioned trying it in a p/p build wherein he concluded that without SOM the heals not sufficient to warrant taking.

P/P has absolutely no use for hidden killer so one must compare the value of Executioner to IP. (P/P has little to no stealth and a hi crit p/p build has little use for hidden killer)

It my contention in such a build IP is superior to executioner. One can easily generate 4k unloads. Even without SOM this means 600 health per unload. This is significant on its own. This is more health then is being gained by someone in hiding with shadows rejuvenation each and every second and is doing damage as it does so.

(Throw in that 325 health steal each second and the benefits even more pronounced. IP PLUS that health steal is like having two heal slots. I suggest a better heal choice is Withdraw in a p/p build so you can have a spike heal as well)

20 percent more damage will only occur after the enemy under 50 percent health. In a P/P build sans stealth one will have little opportunity to take advantage of an enemy under 50 percent health if ones own health not significantly higher. A p/p build using IP will get that enemy down to 50 percent health just as fast as will a p/p build using executioner.

The difference will be the P/P build will benefit from IP throughout the battle and will still benefit if said target heals to over 50 percent. The p/p build with IP will generally have more health when that target reaches 50 percent. if more then one target in range and one is using ricochet the IP user will benefit even more and will even gain health off nearby creatures.

In battles when an enemy sees his or own health dropping even as that of his opponent remains near full they tend to try and break off combat.

The build you’re laying out sounds really interesting! I’ve been having a hard time staying alive in Fractals and dungeons or soloing world content. Would a condi build with all that you’re mentioning be a good transition from a zerker D/D(S/D)+SB 6/6/0/0/2 to what you’re talking about? I really want to try this out but I don’t have the gold to throw down on another full set of gear right now.

Its garbage. Its like adding armor to something that has already 0 armor. If you gonna be squishy like that, dont drop your damage unless you go for real sustain in acrobatics. D/P 20066 is much higher sustain than the invigaroting precision D/P 26006.

In short: in pvp, no.

In PvP, sustainability shouldn’t be your priority since you’re a thief. Your job is to support your team with damage and decaps. Invigorating precision does not help accomplish this.

Now, in WvW, you can really do whatever you want, just know that this skill is not meant to be a primary source of sustain. It’s not an alternative of healing signet. You will still have to use your heal.

babazhook.6805:

I was replying to LOKI who mentioned trying it in a p/p build wherein he concluded that without SOM the heals not sufficient to warrant taking.

P/P has absolutely no use for hidden killer so one must compare the value of Executioner to IP. (P/P has little to no stealth and a high crit p/p build has little use for hidden killer)

It my contention in such a build IP is superior to executioner. One can easily generate 4k unloads. Even without SOM this means 600 health per unload. This is significant on its own. This is more health then is being gained by someone in hiding with shadows rejuvenation each and every second and is doing damage as it does so.

(Throw in that 325 health steal each second and the benefits even more pronounced. IP PLUS that health steal is like having two heal slots. I suggest a better heal choice is Withdraw in a p/p build so you can have a spike heal as well)

20 percent more damage will only occur after the enemy under 50 percent health. In a P/P build sans stealth one will have little opportunity to take advantage of an enemy under 50 percent health if ones own health not significantly higher. A p/p build using IP will get that enemy down to 50 percent health just as fast as will a p/p build using executioner.

The difference will be the P/P build will benefit from IP throughout the battle and will still benefit if said target heals to over 50 percent. The p/p build with IP will generally have more health when that target reaches 50 percent. if more then one target in range and one is using ricochet the IP user will benefit even more and will even gain health off nearby creatures.

In battles when an enemy sees his or own health dropping even as that of his opponent remains near full they tend to try and break off combat.

1. We are talking about a sPvP setting, so we can’t use food. Even if we could use food, the stubborn part of me considers requiring food to make a build work to be an ineffective build. I realize I may be the only out there who doesn’t like food, but I don’t.
2. While you can get the build to work (As I stated, I was winning my 1v1s with p/p in unranked, so it isn’t total garbage), it just doesn’t compare to other builds that are available, especially meta ones. Literally every other weaponset the thief has is superior to p/p, and in almost every scenario. There are some niche uses for the set, but overall you can get by just as easily without it.
3. I agree that executioner and hidden killer are not good traits for p/p, but if I’m going to use p/p, I wouldn’t be using 6 in critical strikes in the first place. Invigorating precision just doesn’t give enough to justify all the investment into being super glassy. The only reason I went 6 into critical strikes was so I could test the trait. If I were going to use p/p normally, I’d use this. As it stands, p/p just doesn’t have enough survivability in the set, so you need use utilities and traits to be survivable. Invigorating precision isn’t enough, the moment you run out of initiative, you’re dead. Having to spam unload to survive is horrible.
4. With IP alone, you need to use 2-3 unloads at 80% crit chance to heal back enough damage taken from a single auto attack. And because you don’t have evades or stealth in the set, you’re going to be hit by auto attacks a lot.

I want to reiterate. Yes, you can make the set work. But the amount of effort you need to use in order to do so makes it a bad set, and literally any other set is superior with less effort.

>>Invigorating precision isn’t enough, the moment you run out of initiative, you’re dead. Having to spam unload to survive is horrible.

But it not intended to provide enough healing on its own to ensure survival. Again I think it a mistake to take it with SOM so drop SOM and take your regular heal withdraw.

You now have the same healing as any of your regular “meta builds”. You supplement that heal that everyone elses uses with IP which will heal just as much as SOM and more. (I single vital shot doing 1000 damage gets 150 health. To get 150 health off a single attack with SOM requires an investment of some 300 into healing. You get that 300 healing effect by investing in a damageE skill) Using SOM with IP is asking for trouble as both source healing from INI.

You then went into the Acro line to get Feline Grace and Vigor along with a bit of health. Both of those can be replicated with some combination of sigils of energy and or runes (such as Adventurers which I found work very well in a p/p set).

Look for other options. As example you can have BOTH energy sigils and Adventurer rune sin a 0/6/0/3/3 build and have 2 trait points left. Lots of evades in that build.

As to the Meta and weapon sets that are easier that is a personal choice.Some people just want to play only that which works with as little effort as possible. There are those that want to try and make other sets work. That latter group tends to be the ones that discover all those metas.

If the interest is just to play what will win with the least effort than one might as well dismiss 20+ other traits out of hand as well. There will always be and have always been sets that are easier to play but not all people want to be locked down by the meta.