Guild Wars 2

Hi all!

So yeah, I’m almost reaching 80 now, already collected enough tokens and gold to buy pretty much anything I want on my thief. I intend to play mostly WvW with her, cause I don’t care much for PvE, and I have other chars for that. Also, I want to play glass cannon D/D, cause it’s fun

Do have a few questions about the build.

1. First, the trait distribution. I don’t like 25/30/0/0/15, that’s too glass (even for me). Was thinking about 0/30/0/25/15, to pick up Power of Inertia and Fleet of Foot (I can imagine cripple being a pain in WvW). Still get the 10% increased damage and a lot of dodges/swiftness, which is also nice because I don’t plan on using the speed signet. Thoughts?

2. Then the runes. I like Divinity, but due to the cost I wonder if it really is that much better then the alternatives? And what are those alternatives?

3. Also, about sigil of Air. How much damage does that do? Does it outway sigil of force or accuracy?

4. And the sigil of night, does that stack with sigil of force? I know force+force doesn’t stack.

5. Using sigil of force along with sigil of accuracy will grant you both bonuses, right?

Thanks for any help, much appreciated!

Have fun.

Cygnus, I’m a thief on dragonbrand thats spends most of his time in wvw. For a long time i ran the standard glass cannon 25/30/0/15/0 and this week i finally decided to switch up my build for a slightly more defensive play through the shadow arts tree. My current build is “http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.7.1.10.13.0.5.16.20.0.154.168.176.169.178.0.0.0.0.0.0.466.475.477.485.486.481.496.0.0.0.0.0.0.30.30.10.0”.

I am currently wearing full berserker gear with berserker accessories and ruby orbs.

For my weapons i have a p/v/t daggers from the AC dungeon with a sigil of force mainhand and a sigil of air offhand. The air is a very good single target damage burst and since my build has a 62% crit chance with food buffs it procs almost immediately after its off cooldown. (sigil of fire is also very good, it does less damage to a single target, but it is aoe).

My other weaponset is a berserker shortbow with a major sigil of bloodlust on it. (i use bloodlust on my shortbow instead of my daggers because i use the bow to solo camps and it quickly stacks your bloodlust count thanks to all of the aoe).

For my utilities is use signet of shadows, shadowstep, and shadow refuge (i occasionally throw on scorpian wire if im in a jumping puzzle or i think i can pull someone off of their keep, but its not very reliable) and for my elite i most often use dagger storm, but i change it often depending on the situation.

To play this build you want to rely almost fully on your cloak and dagger —> backstab combo. You gain might anytime you go into stealth along with blinding your enemy, healing yourself, and you gain back 2 initiative instantly. If you miss a cloak and dagger you are going to be in a lot of trouble, so be prepared to use your hide in shadows to get some initiative back.

Its a fun build and you can just bounce from target to target inside of a zerg with enough time to stomp a player and move on.

If you have any questions feel free to ask! This is my first time explaining my build to anyone, so i hope i was clear!

Cygnus.6903:

1. First, the trait distribution. I don’t like 25/30/0/0/15, that’s too glass (even for me). Was thinking about 0/30/0/25/15, to pick up Power of Inertia and Fleet of Foot (I can imagine cripple being a pain in WvW). Still get the 10% increased damage and a lot of dodges/swiftness, which is also nice because I don’t plan on using the speed signet. Thoughts?

2. Then the runes. I like Divinity, but due to the cost I wonder if it really is that much better then the alternatives? And what are those alternatives?

3. Also, about sigil of Air. How much damage does that do? Does it outway sigil of force or accuracy?

4. And the sigil of night, does that stack with sigil of force? I know force+force doesn’t stack.

5. Using sigil of force along with sigil of accuracy will grant you both bonuses, right?

1. To start, use Dagger/Pistol for a backstab build in WvW. There are Thieves that will tell you D/D is better, trust me its not even close. D/D builds dont even use Dagger 3 or Dagger 4, whereas every single skill in D/P is useful. There is a reason every single top Thief in sPvP is playing Dagger/Pistol. D/P allows you to stealth on demand with Pistol 5 and then Heartseeker three times through the Smoke combo field. With the right trait set up, you can basically perma stealth. The traits are: 10/30/15/015, taking Mug, Practiced Tolerance, Critical Haste, Executioner, Infusion of Shadow, and finally Thrill of the Crime. Utility skills are Hide in Shadows, Shadow refuge, shadowstep, Signet of Shadows.

2. Here’s the best gear set up I can recommend to maximize damage and survivability: Knights exotic armor with Ruby Orbs (Ruby Orbs are better than Divinity Runes), Berserker D/P with Sigil of Force and Sigil of Air, Shortbow with Sigil of Fire. Also get a cheap Pistol or Dagger and slot Sigil of Bloodlust. When you enter WvW, equip that weapon and build to at least 15 stacks for the bonus power, then swap back to your Berserker weapon. Lastly get full Valkyrie Jewelry. For food and oil, I take Orrian Frittes for 100 Power and 70 Vit, as well as Master Maintenance Oil. With the stacks from Sigil of Bloodlust, you will hit like a truck with 1400 toughness and 16.7k health and the ability to perma stealth and escape (assuming you manage your initiative correctly).

Finally the most important part is learning the combos with D/P. The stock burst rotation is Dagger 5, Heartseeker towards your target, hit Steal WHILE YOU ARE MID AIR FROM HEARTSEEKER, then backstab. The beauty of this combo is that you will land your Heartseeker, Mug, and then you will land on top of your target in stealth, ready for the backstab. This is a tougher combo to master compared to Cloak and Dagger, Steal, Backstab but it is far superior. Use Dagger 3 to catch running targets, and Pistol 4 is amazing for interrupting heals or any other abilities. When you fight melee opponents, drop a Pistol 5 to blind them continually. Good luck and be prepared to destroy most targets including all D/D and S/D Thieves.

Pantsforbirds,

What is your standard rotation when you go in for a kill?

heres my setup for wvwvw backstab build, its not as glassy but i can still land 6k backstabs

i have all p/v/t armor and backpiece
berserker amulet and trinkets
beryl gems for all 12 pieces
berserker daggers with sigil of force and bloodlust

0/30/30/10/0 is the build i run with
side strikes, practiced tolerance, hidden killer
infusion of shadow, cloaked in shadow, shadows rejuvenation
fleet shadow

for food, curry butternut squash for 100 percision and 10% crit damage and sharpening stone for power

stats with food and sigil stacks is around 3300 power, 40%crit chance 18k hp and u have a little bit of toughness.

i prefer not to take mug because i prefer to cast my bas venom with the backstab so i can stay closer to them a little longer for the next cnd+bs.

donttread, I actually don’t run a rotation like i would with my old build. I had to give up mug for my 30 points in shadow arts, so now i don’t use steal as an opener.

I usually try to attack a zerg, but if its a 1v1 i usually dodge through the enemies opener towards them so that i can get my first cloak and dagger. After I’ve hit c&d ill position behind the enemy and wait till my stealth is about to drop and then ill backstab. I usually just repeat that (stacking might each time i stealth) and the fights are usually relatively quick and easy. If the enemy tries to run ill steal to them while precasting c&d and backstab them. Steal is also a very good utitlity if you see a zerg, i steal off of warriors for their whil attack so i can block projectiles while my dagger storm is on cooldown etc.

If you’re interested i could record some gameplay this weekend and post a video of how i tend to play.

If you want to watch a thief with the same build who is definitely better than me, you should watch this commentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jHOpACoX4ic.

He also explains why he does what he does, and i think its a very good video for someone who wants to run d/d to watch.

pantsforbirds.9032:

Steal is also a very good utitlity if you see a zerg, i steal off of warriors for their whil attack so i can block projectiles while my dagger storm is on cooldown etc.

I thought they nerfed the warrior whirl attack thieves can steal, taking away the reflect projectiles part of it? Still does killer damage though, I use it to down people often.

If they only toned it down to block projectiles, that’s still pretty good.

Pantsforbirds,

I would love to see your gameplay video. Do you miss Mug?

@ pantsforbirds: Thanks for your reply, and I’m honored to be the first one! Your build seems slightly different from what I’ve seen, but I do have some questions.

You use Hidden Killer instead of Executioner. Doesn’t this dampen your damage a LOT? I mean, you already have 62% crit (82% when you get your target to 50% due to the fury trait). Is using HK over Exec really worth that increase in crit chance just for backstab?

Also, check this out : http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7|8.1g.h4.8.1c.h2|5.1c.h1j|1g.71j.1g.71j.1p.71j.1g.71j.1p.71j.1g.71j|2t.0.2t.0.3t.0.1p.61.1p.61.8c.0|0.u13b.0.p27.f5|3a.0|e
That’s the build I intend to use. I believe vitality is more useful then toughness for thief survival, especially when not using shadow’s rejuv. Could you fit in your build in this calculator and see how it fares against the survivability/damage output of mine?

On a sidenote, i plan on using dagger+bloodlust and dagger+force (or night), until I get enough stacks. Then I switch out bloodlust for a dagger with the accuracy sigil, increasing further to ~58% crit chance without fury. I’m going to test if Air or accuracy is better with such high crit damage.

Also, you say you solo camps with a shortbow? Do you lure them? Or just face all NPC’s head-on?

The might on stealth trait, how much might does that actually grant you usually? 6-8 stacks? May very well be better then the 10% increased damage trait I pick up with 25 in Acro.

I guess I will be testing with 25 in Shadow Arts as well as Acrobatics.

Thanks!

Hotcake.2137:

2. Here’s the best gear set up I can recommend to maximize damage and survivability: Knights exotic armor with Ruby Orbs (Ruby Orbs are better than Divinity Runes), Berserker D/P with Sigil of Force and Sigil of Air, Shortbow with Sigil of Fire. Also get a cheap Pistol or Dagger and slot Sigil of Bloodlust. When you enter WvW, equip that weapon and build to at least 15 stacks for the bonus power, then swap back to your Berserker weapon. Lastly get full Valkyrie Jewelry.

This item spread is not quite correct.

Use Valk exquisite jewels and other crit% gear in the order listed in the table: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Item_nomenclature#Comparison_of_numeric_vs._percentage_attributes

Low ratios = use crit% gear (Valk/Zerk), high ratios = use “stat” gear (Knights).

Based on your recommendation above, you would be looking at approximately:

Knight’s Jewelry with Valkyrie Exquisite Jewels

[sidenote: I think Knight’s jewelry had a stat swap from armor, so you may want to use Valk Earring + Amulet + Exquisite Jewels, but use Knight’s Rings, and then drop Berserker Boots/Gloves for Knight’s]

Berserker Boots/Shoulder/Gloves

Knight’s Chest/Leg/Helm

Cygnus.6903:

You use Hidden Killer instead of Executioner. Doesn’t this dampen your damage a LOT? I mean, you already have 62% crit (82% when you get your target to 50% due to the fury trait). Is using HK over Exec really worth that increase in crit chance just for backstab?

If you use Hidden Killer and then optimize for stealth attacks, you can viably drop some precision to pick up other stats (like Vit/Tough). You could also re-allocate precision pumps to power which is a good gain, but those trades are rare (only available for Sigil stack trading and food trades, really).

For raw damage when you have a high crit rate already, or when you’re not heavily focused on stealth attacks, then Executioner is better.

EasymodeX.4062:

This item spread is not quite correct.

Use Valk exquisite jewels and other crit% gear in the order listed in the table: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Item_nomenclature#Comparison_of_numeric_vs._percentage_attributes

Low ratios = use crit% gear (Valk/Zerk), high ratios = use “stat” gear (Knights).

Based on your recommendation above, you would be looking at approximately:

Knight’s Jewelry with Valkyrie Exquisite Jewels

[sidenote: I think Knight’s jewelry had a stat swap from armor, so you may want to use Valk Earring + Amulet + Exquisite Jewels, but use Knight’s Rings, and then drop Berserker Boots/Gloves for Knight’s]

Berserker Boots/Shoulder/Gloves

Knight’s Chest/Leg/Helm

Appreciate the input, I definitely don’t think I’ve completely min maxed my gear but I don’t think your gear suggestions make any substantial difference. I will try it when I get the chance to see if I can squeeze out some tiny improvements to my existing stats, can’t hurt.

Generally speaking you might be able to squeeze out about 20-35 raw stat points (probably more Precision).

Not a major difference, but /shrug. Only key point is to allocate the Exquisite Jewels in accessories properly. Everything else is small-ish.

Hotcake.2137:

Appreciate the input, I definitely don’t think I’ve completely min maxed my gear but I don’t think your gear suggestions make any substantial difference. I will try it when I get the chance to see if I can squeeze out some tiny improvements to my existing stats, can’t hurt.

It depends on what you consider substantial. You can get 3% crit damage at the cost of 15 toughness by switching out 1 jewel, or you could get the same 3% crit damage at the cost of 48 toughness by switching out your pants. That’s a 33 point stat difference between swapping out just 1 item. If you are going to mix different types of gear I think it’s worth it to do it with the pieces that minimize stat loss.

Is there a tool to maximize your gear? Seems a bit tedious..

Just sounds tedious on paper.

Look at the link and “fill” your item slots with % stats (Zerk/Valk) starting with the low ratios, and fill your item slots with raw stats (Knight’s) starting with the high ratios. That’s all it is, basically.

The inconsistent Knight’s stats on jewelry is a random piece of complexity ANet left in the game due to bad QA. Doesn’t make a huge difference, but is tedious if you want 100% min/max.

@LOCO I actually didn’t know about that nerf. Thats definitely something i’ll keep in mind from now on.

@donttread i definitely do miss mug, but its not something that is worth having over the extra points in shadow arts if yo run a d/d setup.

Cygnus.6903:

@ pantsforbirds: Thanks for your reply, and I’m honored to be the first one! Your build seems slightly different from what I’ve seen, but I do have some questions.

You use Hidden Killer instead of Executioner. Doesn’t this dampen your damage a LOT? I mean, you already have 62% crit (82% when you get your target to 50% due to the fury trait). Is using HK over Exec really worth that increase in crit chance just for backstab?

Also, check this out : http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7|8.1g.h4.8.1c.h2|5.1c.h1j|1g.71j.1g.71j.1p.71j.1g.71j.1p.71j.1g.71j|2t.0.2t.0.3t.0.1p.61.1p.61.8c.0|0.u13b.0.p27.f5|3a.0|e
That’s the build I intend to use. I believe vitality is more useful then toughness for thief survival, especially when not using shadow’s rejuv. Could you fit in your build in this calculator and see how it fares against the survivability/damage output of mine?

On a sidenote, i plan on using dagger+bloodlust and dagger+force (or night), until I get enough stacks. Then I switch out bloodlust for a dagger with the accuracy sigil, increasing further to ~58% crit chance without fury. I’m going to test if Air or accuracy is better with such high crit damage.

Also, you say you solo camps with a shortbow? Do you lure them? Or just face all NPC’s head-on?

The might on stealth trait, how much might does that actually grant you usually? 6-8 stacks? May very well be better then the 10% increased damage trait I pick up with 25 in Acro.

I guess I will be testing with 25 in Shadow Arts as well as Acrobatics.

Thanks!

I have spent a lot of time switching between hidden killer and executioner. On my old build i ran executioner because the c&d/mug combo usually hit hard enough that my backstab would benefit from executioner. The shadow arts oriented build doesn’t have mug so i don’t open with steal anymore and i rely almost fully on backstabbing whenever i fight so i find hidden killer to be a better trait choice (plus i want my sigil of air to proc as much as possible).

As an example i got into a 3v1 last night against 2 guardians (one of them was upleveled) and a mesmer. I just used C&D and backstab to fight the 3 of them (phantasms make a create target to C&D off of). I used heart seeker a couple of times to close a distance, but the C&D and backstab combo is a much better use of your initiate because you are stacking might, healing yourself, blinding all of the enemies around you, and you are getting 2 initiative back every time you stealth. I also made sure to steal from a guardian to take his mace attack to interrupt one of their heals. The build i use is less about bursting them down and more about confusing them in stealth with a quick burst out of stealth and then reentering stealth as soon as possible.

As for your build, the stats look good, but apparently i don’t know how to use the website. What major traits did you take?

If you are using bloodlust i would recommend you take air/fire as your off hand sigil. I think the 3-5k proc off of the lightning strike is a much better value. I know mine proc’s about every 5 seconds when i’m attacking.