Guild Wars 2

Welcome only Guys with S/D – D/P – P/D – S/P

Thief dont need Nerf ! Thief need better things for D/D !!!

My D/D thief is alive though.

D/D P/P Fully alive and killing for me

D/D is only viable in PvE . Its the Specc with the highest DPS in bossfights.

I know there are ppl pretending they do play it as roamer in WvW too, but this will only work unless you face someone who knows how to fight a D/D thief, then it’s game over.

In a WvW Group i can also still work as D/D , but you are heavily carried, basicly waiting for your group to open and you go in for the killing blow, moving out right after and just deal Dmg with Shortbow.

Problem with D/D is, your backstab needs to hurt, and i mean really hurt.
For that you have to invest into critical Strikes, ( well dunno, could also perhaps try Sigil of Intelligence… ).
This does not leave much room for any supportive traitline.

So, i belive currently you can only play it in PvE bossencounters as 6/6/0/0/2 specc for highest possible dmg, in every other part of the game you are better of with another weaponcombination.-

Then I seem to play against very very very very very bad players as I win 90% of my fights. I’m running solo though, group fights don’t work for me.

Edit: Ok, maybe 90% is too much, 70? and 20% of the times I run away – my excuse for that is that another enemy was coming in. That’s legit, right?

lvis.3824:

I know there are ppl pretending they do play it as roamer in WvW too, but this will only work unless you face someone who knows how to fight a D/D thief, then it’s game over.

Lol, this is so wrong. D/D isn’t great for point capture, but it does fine in death match. And in 1v1 scenarios, it’s more than viable. Is it as strong as D/P or S/D? Probably not, but that doesn’t mean you only win fights against bad players.

lvis.3824:

In a WvW Group i can also still work as D/D , but you are heavily carried, basicly waiting for your group to open and you go in for the killing blow, moving out right after and just deal Dmg with Shortbow.

This is also completely wrong. D/D has probably the highest burst of any weapon set. By this fact alone, it’ll contribute nicely to team fights. Not to mention that you could very well trait 6 into trickery for the standard team utility.

lvis.3824:

Problem with D/D is, your backstab needs to hurt, and i mean really hurt.
For that you have to invest into critical Strikes, ( well dunno, could also perhaps try Sigil of Intelligence… ).
This does not leave much room for any supportive traitline.

This is, you guessed it, also wrong. You don’t need critical strikes on D/D. I personally enjoy 20606 or 20246.

I’ve been having success with D/D in mid level tpvp and hotjoin. I ran across swinsk the other day and killed him a couple of times (he killed me more than I killed him to be fair), but it’s great for picking thieves off of other teammates, or bursting people down as they try to take a point from a bunker. As mango said, pretty decent with 6 in trickery.

mango.9267 you play on EU servers ?
If so, i call for duels., i guarantee you will lose 100% as D/D .

Why do you think EVERY thieef out there, who does play at least in the top 1000 in leaderboard (+ all streaming thiefs and all thiefs from top teams that were broadcasted ) plays either D/P or S/D ? Perhaps sometimes S/P ?
Well, let me tell you why, cause D/D sucks and is not even close to beeing viable.

With D/D you have exactly ONE chance to nuke your target, when you have your Elite up and steal is ready.
And this 3 abilities ( C’n’D , steal , backstab ) have to hurt !

Not going into CS as D/D thief is even more fail, cause you lose the 100% critchance on you “killshot”. You will also lose a lot of critchance, and critdmg which is what makes a Backstab hit so hard.
Sure you can run with Superior Sigil of Intelligence as i wrote but your B/S will still hit for less.

And 6 into trickery works with every build, as i also wrote, but as D/D you will not gain ANYTHING over D/P when you not specc into full burst .

You will even lose your ability to gapclose , b/c you don’t have access to shadowshot, and you don’t have a ranged interrupt outside of steal which is one of your burst openers.

If you are in EU please please let us duel and you will understand why D/D is bullkitten in PvP .

Ask yourself this, what do i gain from /D over /P ?

Not sure if I would challenge second child.. but that’s me.
And wvw is a different thing than pvp, btw.

Ofc Wvw with all these extra Stats from gear, food and consumables is different but i am talking about real PvP .

Dunno who 2nd child is, but well as you said this is you …

If you mean mango.9267 he said for himself, even for WvW:

Is it as strong as D/P or S/D? Probably not, but that doesn’t mean you only win fights against bad players.

I tried so many buils, also 2/0/2/4/6 but this is only working for WvW, and even there a a full shadowarts build is better b/c you need that healing over additional dodges.

It’s really sad, but belive it or not D/P is >>> D/D for any kind of real PvP .

The play style of d/d doesn’t fit conquest I see some decent ones around but the set is more reliant on stealth/SA then d/p and pvp only has conquest. Some thieves even run d/d d/p it’s purely conquest the set is viable but don’t try fighting against the laws of conquest. #pvpthiefdiversity

Meh you’ll see more p/p as main or second set in wvw then d/d in pvp, it’s sad that a major part of thief is against conquest but pvp is not serious anyway.

lvis.3824:

Ofc Wvw with all these extra Stats from gear, food and consumables is different but i am talking about real PvP .

I don’t think that this thread was about pvp only – and pvp also hasn’t got mobs, siege and doors to CnD on – but it has a team which helps if it’s a good team. I have played it sometimes but not that much that I would really know what is going on there. So – pvp also has got different damage calculations as far as I know and it’s necessary to cap points – what is difficult for a thief, especially when relying on stealth. There are people here who say it works and I kind of believe them – but it is easier to do as a D/P thief, that’s true – that doesn’t mean that D/D doesn’t work, even if it doesn’t work on your teams in pvp.

lvis.3824:

snip*

I’m in the top 1000 team arena and run D/D. WHAT NOW?!

Now a world crumbles or you’ll have an invitation to 1v1.

Jana.6831:

Now a world crumbles or you’ll have an invitation to 1v1.

^ pretty much…1v1…

lvis.3824:

Why do you think EVERY thieef out there, who does play at least in the top 1000 in leaderboard (+ all streaming thiefs and all thiefs from top teams that were broadcasted ) plays either D/P or S/D ? Perhaps sometimes S/P ?
Well, let me tell you why, cause D/D sucks and is not even close to beeing viable.

You’re talking about point-capture, which is entirely different from death-match. D/D is limited in point-capture scenarios by the need to CnD (and therefore stealth) and by the fact that it doesn’t have the close combat damage mitigation that D/P and S/D do. However, in scenarios where you’re not worried about holding points and where you’re not worried about fighting in confined spaces, D/D does perfectly fine.

I’d also like to point out that you’re confusing viable with optimal. D/D isn’t optimal in the sense that D/P and S/D are probably stronger overall, but D/D is more than viable in the sense that you’re able contribute well to team fights.

lvis.3824:

With D/D you have exactly ONE chance to nuke your target, when you have your Elite up and steal is ready.
And this 3 abilities ( C’n’D , steal , backstab ) have to hurt !

A ton of damage comes just from dagger autos, and dancing dagger bounces also do pretty decent damage. Even in single target scenario, staggering steal, infiltrator signet, and shadowstep gives you more than enough gap closers to land your heavy hitting combos. It’s a complete myth to think that the weapon set is useless in between mug/CnD/backstab combos.

lvis.3824:

Not going into CS as D/D thief is even more fail, cause you lose the 100% critchance on you “killshot”. You will also lose a lot of critchance, and critdmg which is what makes a Backstab hit so hard.
Sure you can run with Superior Sigil of Intelligence as i wrote but your B/S will still hit for less.

Thieves are in a state where a ton of damage comes from fire/air proc’s. This is why it’s no longer mandatory to spec into CS. This is just as true in PvP, where I think 60206 is stronger than 26006, as it is in WvW, where I think 20606 is the strongest trait spread on any weapon set.

I’d like to also point out that meta builds in PvP don’t take Hidden Killer either.

lvis.3824:

If you are in EU please please let us duel and you will understand why D/D is bullkitten in PvP .

I play NA, and I’m not going to spend $60 on a duel. If you have an NA account, feel free to PM in game to set something up. That said, I sincerely hope you don’t think dueling proves anything.

lvis.3824:

Ask yourself this, what do i gain from /D over /P ?

To simplify, you get more damage. D/P brings more utility, but the weapon set is inherently more defensive. With the exception of death blossom, every skill on D/D hits hard. In team play scenarios where the objective isn’t to hold points, there is reason to take D/D over D/P for the higher burst potential that D/D brings.

if you’ re playing with your team, D/D is ok.. less utility but can littereally one shot every non bunker char.. and this is usefull in other way.. maybe d/p is better in terms of utility and survability.. but not in dmg.. need to choose what your team needs

Asahi.1487:

lvis.3824:

snip*

I’m in the top 1000 team arena and run D/D. WHAT NOW?!

I was 35 in solo arena and consistent top 200 whenever I teamq and im telling you DD is trash. What now?

People are still defending D/D like it was the summer of 2012.. ahhhh those were the days Mug could still crit and Basilik Venom was unbreakable

Fast forward to Fall 2014 where Cloak and Dagger and Dancing Dagger have seen its damage cut by a third, mug no longer crits, and basilik venom has become closer to a utility skill than an elite

D/D is trash folks.. its gone the way of the dinosaur and only stubborn thieves who still think underbewb + dual incinerators = proleetmlg420noscope

It was fun while it lasted and it is simply time for Anet to give skills #3/4/5 a much needed facelift

I love D/D and the style it gives. But right now the only usage it has is for Boss fights. Even in PvE, when I’m solo I tend to use D/P and S/P or Shortbow more than D/D. D/D is pretty much the boss figher, and thats it at this point, wich is sad, because D/D was the reason I started my Thief :/

I don’t use mug, I don’t use Basilisk Venom.
You guys make me feel better than I am.

Buffing D 4 and 5 would buff P/D and S/D thieves. P/D thieves are already (with necros) those who give me the most trouble, buffing me wouldn’t change anything when they’re buffed as well. The same goes for trait lines except for CS which is “unique” for D/D.
I’m using D/D SB for nearly everything except when ranging solo bosses or when daylie interrupter is up (I do miss the interrupt from time to time). I’m doing fine – well it’s pve.

CnD got its damage nerfed a LONG time ago, and that’s only applicable in sPvP. It did not get nerfed in WvW.

D/D is a viable set in WvW on builds which are built around it. I don’t mean SA berserker backstab (generally speaking). I mean full-on nuke builds like 5/6/0/0/3 Valkyrie signet stab and some of the wonky SA/Acro creations I’ve seen which utilize might stacking and damage modifiers. When you build for the weapon set, it becomes much better. It is bad and will be forever bad in sPvP due to cut stats, lower skill damage ratios, and inherently higher toughness and armor on your targets.

D/D is a set with little diversity, but it has been in the same state for a very long time. The only way to make it more viable is with “better” skills on 3/4, but nobody can seem to agree how to change those for the betterment of everyone.

Elitist.8701:

Asahi.1487:

lvis.3824:

snip*

I’m in the top 1000 team arena and run D/D. WHAT NOW?!

I was 35 in solo arena and consistent top 200 whenever I teamq and im telling you DD is trash. What now?

What now? This is exaclty what i am saying …

mango.9267:

A ton of damage comes just from dagger autos, and dancing dagger bounces also do pretty decent damage. Even in single target scenario, staggering steal, infiltrator signet, and shadowstep gives you more than enough gap closers to land your heavy hitting combos. It’s a complete myth to think that the weapon set is useless in between mug/CnD/backstab combos.

I’ve also read the rest of your post, but i want to take this statment to show the problem a D/D thief has.
Autoattacks from dagger are really nice, but what do you think will happen if a thief just jumps in an ongoing fight between even 2ppl .

Often enough you just die from random AE/procs etc.
You dont have invulns or protection, no stability, regen and if you want to deal dmg you are fullzerker with 14.xxx Hp and no toughness.

I really don’t know where you normally fight but the guys i fight ( mostly in tPvP ) focus a thief instant , and if you dont manage to get your burst out in 2 secs you are dead / cc’ed or have to retreat.

And for 1v1 situations D/P is also much much better than D/D , because you need the blinds and the option to get into stealth when you need it, D/D would only work against professions with a companion b/c if you try to land a C’n’d on a decent player you will not get it off ( blind, block, dodge ).

Blind & Interrupt is much more of use as the cripple from dancing dagger or the dmg from cloak and dagger.

I really tried some or your builds yesterday, only in hotjoin, and its like i said.
Sure you can join an ongoing battle and nuke someone out, but you can also do this with D/P.

But as D/D you lose the chance to fight players on your skilllevel in 1v1.
You lose also the “support” ability you have, areastealth and blind.

I agree that 2/0/6/0/6 is currenlty one of the strongest speccs for WvW , i run it also if facing anything condiish or more than 1nmy.
But also here i have D/P as second set, because if you “fail” one C’n’D can be in a lot of trouble.

But this specc does not do good in sPvP because of the much lower stats.
It does not hurt at all, ofc, you can run it as condispec but thats better done with P/D.

lvis.3824:

But this specc does not do good in sPvP because of the much lower stats.
It does not hurt at all, ofc, you can run it as condispec but thats better done with P/D.

Look, I agree with you that D/D isn’t strong in PvP. I’ve stated it twice before, and I’ll state it again: D/D is weak in point-capture scenarios. This is because you have to fight in confined spaces, worry about holding points, and often fight 1v1 against bunker/condi specs on far points, without the same utility/damage mitigation that D/P and S/D bring.

However, D/D is viable in team play situations where the objective isn’t point-capture. I’m talking 2v2 – 5v5 death matches where two teams just try to kill each other. In these situations, there is reason to pick D/D over some other weapon set because of the burst it brings. I think the same is true for general WvW play.

Note, again, that I said D/D was viable, meaning you contribute well in team fights, but not optimal, meaning that D/P and S/D bring more utility and are probably stronger overall.

Elitist.8701:

Asahi.1487:

lvis.3824:

snip*

I’m in the top 1000 team arena and run D/D. WHAT NOW?!

I was 35 in solo arena and consistent top 200 whenever I teamq and im telling you DD is trash. What now?

than you full of crap. d/d is not trash. I bet caed would stomp you all day playing as d/d.

d/d is good in wvw when there are static objects/mobs you can use apart from target itself.

@Sandrox, you have no idea what you’re talking about. First of all, no DD thief could ever “stomp” me, Ive only ever seen 1 good DD thief and I went 70/30 with him on SD, 100/0 on DP. Also Ive seen Caed play and the way he plays DP wouldnt translate to DD at all. Stop acting like you’re god mode Mr.WvWHero. The fact that you need a crutch such as mobs to Cnd off of just shows how awful the weaponset is. @Mango, I dont know about WvW skirmishes because WvW is full of bad players but in PvP even in a deathmatch mode, a DD thief would get destroyed because if CnD misses once you have to waste CDs, and DD thief can get locked down incredibly easily and cant disengage nearly as well as DP or SD. Also just based on how you think DD is held back by capture points shows your limited knowledge of PvP. It’s actually held back by its reliance on SA taking away from team support, the terrible 1v1 potential it has vs anyone even remotely good, and the lack of survivability it has in a teamfight when locked down. It also lacks in mobility and decap capability because without trickery you cant use SB. 5 much.
DD is dead.

Elitist.8701:

@Sandrox, you have no idea what you’re talking about. First of all, no DD thief could ever “stomp” me, Ive only ever seen 1 good DD thief and I went 70/30 with him on SD, 100/0 on DP. Also Ive seen Caed play and the way he plays DP wouldnt translate to DD at all. Stop acting like you’re god mode Mr.WvWHero. The fact that you need a crutch such as mobs to Cnd off of just shows how awful the weaponset is. @Mango, I dont know about WvW skirmishes because WvW is full of bad players but in PvP even in a deathmatch mode, a DD thief would get destroyed because if CnD misses once you have to waste CDs, and DD thief can get locked down incredibly easily and cant disengage nearly as well as DP or SD. Also just based on how you think DD is held back by capture points shows your limited knowledge of PvP. It’s actually held back by its reliance on SA taking away from team support, the terrible 1v1 potential it has vs anyone even remotely good, and the lack of survivability it has in a teamfight when locked down. It also lacks in mobility and decap capability because without trickery you cant use SB. 5 much.
DD is dead.

I dont say D/D is master spec.But it is not trash either,if you think good thief,which play certain spec,cant play good on pretty similar spec,well,wrong.

I dont know where I acted as godmode mr.wvwhero or somthing,fact that you on such offensive,meaning,somthing I said was true.CnD without SA is just practice,and it will not be trash,I bet you never really tried D/D and you base all of your posts to “you never see D/D thief in pvp”,while it is true,D/p outshine D/D,I find D/D good in many situations D/P isnt.Usin obstacles is part of the game,when I play mesmer,i often blinks to higher places tomake my opponet lose his LOS.Same goes for CnD obstacles.

Lets face it people, we do not belong on Player killing scene were made for Killing A.i’s.
I feel sorry (respect) for all the D/d thieves and wants to bring their weapon set on the top, despite how cruel the nerf we got since launch and counting.

Lift up thy weapons and must be steadfast, strong and brave of heart
they who hesitate and stumble shall not be rewarded.

http://tinyurl.com/nightblade5

q.q why does no one like mah weapon set. I crai eretiem

I am getting some good laughs from this thread.

still playing d/d in wvw till death or quitting the whole game

Narkodx.1472:

-snip-

D/D is trash folks.. its gone the way of the dinosaur and only stubborn thieves who still think underbewb + dual incinerators = proleetmlg420noscope

-snip-

I think this was aimed at the video you linked atti!

XPGAMER.7324:

http://tinyurl.com/nightblade5

q.q why does no one like mah weapon set. I crai eretiem

I was actually about to share this video to give them an example.

GG btw mate.