Guild Wars 2

This isn’t a moan thread but no doubt someone will make a comment and I’ll bite but I play as a warrior and have done since day 1.
My build is all power toughness vitality with a bit of precision. I have 29k health and 3.6 toughness, 1.8k shout heal. So today I did my usual trot along to get to the commander in wvw.

A thief cloaks onto me and killed me in exactly 6 seconds, now before I enquire about how it can cut a heavy tank to ribbons so quickly, he took a full volley of 100 blades at 70% critical chance and lost about 20% health. Bare in mind I’m also fully ascended and hit him with sunrise. Not only that this was ontop of sm gate and he had the attraction of atleast 3 veteran guards.

My question is, what on earth did this guy deal to me, and despite the outrageous damage, he appeared to have a good tank, arguably better than mine!
Normally I would not suggest this is overpowered because the thief is set out to be a target choser in small fights, where I’m (or atleast my build) is set out to provide shouts and survivability in a Zerg. Despite this it still shows that in one million scenarios I would not be able to kill him once, so I’m forced to say the power of this class at the moment is practically an i win build if built properly.

Now, should I also just level to 80 in a thief and do the same and claim I’m a great player because I can hide, attack, hide, attack win? This game will become thief wars 2.
You may ask why am I picking a fight when I’ll lose? Well I should be able to compete I cannot on any level against this class, everyone else I can, but this is just sheer awesome damaged, survivability speed, power, everything. This guy didn’t need a cloak ability, but even when knocked down….that’s right, hide. My utilities do nothing.

Normally I’d be able to carry on and just outrun them, but a good thief can circle a Zerg and chip away at someone on the sedge of the Zerg. I just can’t see any point continuing with so many troll builds looking to not actually contribute to wvw but loiter near gates hitting me for 20k in one go, it takes me about 4 seconds to delivery 11k 80% through a legendary 100 blades attack……absolutely pointless.

Roll on thief wars 2, you know you have a class problem when the above scenarios. Is possible, by the way I went back 3 times, this was no fluke, I was starting to think he was a hacker but he wasn’t.

Is there a bingo card for the thief forums like the dungeon forums? This would win instantly.

Boldor Aran.8543:

My build is all power toughness vitality with a bit of precision. I have 29k health and 3.6 toughness, 1.8k shout heal. So today I did my usual trot along to get to the commander in wvw.

A thief cloaks onto me and killed me in exactly 6 seconds, now before I enquire about how it can cut a heavy tank to ribbons so quickly, he took a full volley of 100 blades at 70% critical chance and lost about 20% health.

Right from the start we can see something is horribly wrong with your numbers. There is no way, that if you build full PVT with a “bit” of precision, you will hit 70% crit chance. Even with fury. Next, assuming he did eat a full hundred blades (which if we assume this was a skilled thief, he would not) there is no way that he could only lose 20% health. Likely scenarios? You were standing in black powder, and missing most of your hits. More likely? He simply wasn’t getting hit by your 100b. Just dodged behind you and attacked from there.

Next up, you say that he killed you in exactly six seconds.. How do you know this so precisely? Either you have a video of the fight (which I’d like to see) or you must have stood there calmly counting the seconds of the fight while he was killing you.. Which might explain why he killed you so quickly, if you just stood there.

Throughout your post, you specifically say a few times that you are using the legendary greatsword Sunrise, as if it is supposed to be more powerful than other greatswords. Legendary weapons are just as powerful as other ascended weapons, so that part makes no difference.

Boldor Aran.8543:

Despite this it still shows that in one million scenarios I would not be able to kill him once

The reason you would never beat him is simply because he is that much better than you. The thief isn’t some super duper OP faceroll win class, you’re simply flustered because you got killed a few times by someone who is better than you, and, much akin to a flustered child who exaggerates everything, you also are exaggerating everything about that fight.

TL;DR?
L2P

If what you say it true, then he was using cheats.
To only lose 20% health he must have avoided the brunt of the damage in some manner, whether that be evade/dodge/immune.

This thread started out great, until about halfway through where you’re basically saying Thief are godclass.
Thieves are made for 1v1/small group. Why are you complaining that you died in this scenario when you said yourself that your build is for group play?

By all means go play a Thief, but you won’t be able to do much in a zerg, unlike Warriors can.

All I can suggest is go make a 1v1 build and learn your class and you’ll eventually even out. In my opinion, the outcomes of most fights on Gw2 all boil down to how good the user is with their class, and not the class its’self.

No Thief hits “20k in 1 go”. So, unless you have some figures we can work from then I wouldn’t suggest complaining about the class in their own forum.

You wouldn’t be happy if I made a thread in Warrior forum saying something along the lines of..

“OMG a Warrior just sneaked up on me, used Shield Bash then Hundred Blades and killed me in 1 second!?!? BROKEN CLASS”

Or how about I mention Warriors infinite pool of CC?

Please..

Stompy.1387:

Next up, you say that he killed you in exactly six seconds.. How do you know this so precisely? Either you have a video of the fight (which I’d like to see) or you must have stood there calmly counting the seconds of the fight while he was killing you.. Which might explain why he killed you so quickly, if you just stood there.

Knows he died in “precisely 6 seconds”.
Doesn’t know what he died from.

Seems legit, yes?

Stompy.1387:

Is there a bingo card for the thief forums like the dungeon forums? This would win instantly.

Boldor Aran.8543:

My build is all power toughness vitality with a bit of precision. I have 29k health and 3.6 toughness, 1.8k shout heal. So today I did my usual trot along to get to the commander in wvw.

A thief cloaks onto me and killed me in exactly 6 seconds, now before I enquire about how it can cut a heavy tank to ribbons so quickly, he took a full volley of 100 blades at 70% critical chance and lost about 20% health.

Right from the start we can see something is horribly wrong with your numbers. There is no way, that if you build full PVT with a “bit” of precision, you will hit 70% crit chance. Even with fury. Next, assuming he did eat a full hundred blades (which if we assume this was a skilled thief, he would not) there is no way that he could only lose 20% health. Likely scenarios? You were standing in black powder, and missing most of your hits. More likely? He simply wasn’t getting hit by your 100b. Just dodged behind you and attacked from there.

Next up, you say that he killed you in exactly six seconds.. How do you know this so precisely? Either you have a video of the fight (which I’d like to see) or you must have stood there calmly counting the seconds of the fight while he was killing you.. Which might explain why he killed you so quickly, if you just stood there.

Throughout your post, you specifically say a few times that you are using the legendary greatsword Sunrise, as if it is supposed to be more powerful than other greatswords. Legendary weapons are just as powerful as other ascended weapons, so that part makes no difference.

Boldor Aran.8543:

Despite this it still shows that in one million scenarios I would not be able to kill him once

You don’t understand the game if you think I can’t get 70% from a warrior build! the extra precision comes from the odd trink, sword! food and precision trait! your understanding of the warrior is elementary. I already told you I had high armour which further boost my maintainable boost to precision.

The reason you would never beat him is simply because he is that much better than you. The thief isn’t some super duper OP faceroll win class, you’re simply flustered because you got killed a few times by someone who is better than you, and, much akin to a flustered child who exaggerates everything, you also are exaggerating everything about that fight.

Like I said I went back three times, he did similar each time, though the extra times I did little to attack him and focused on how much pain he delivered. By the way, anyone with an IQ north of 75 can accurately guess a fight length. I have this unusual ability to play and accurately measure time, particularly such a short amount of time.

You just said yourself about the suitability of the thief class and the warrior class as having two uniquely defined roles, yet you still think he’s better than me at the same time you acknowledge this difference in class type and role. Your sir…..are dim.

TL;DR?
L2P

Zach.3264:

If what you say it true, then he was using cheats.
To only lose 20% health he must have avoided the brunt of the damage in some manner, whether that be evade/dodge/immune.

This thread started out great, until about halfway through where you’re basically saying Thief are godclass.
Thieves are made for 1v1/small group. Why are you complaining that you died in this scenario when you said yourself that your build is for group play?

By all means go play a Thief, but you won’t be able to do much in a zerg, unlike Warriors can.

All I can suggest is go make a 1v1 build and learn your class and you’ll eventually even out. In my opinion, the outcomes of most fights on Gw2 all boil down to how good the user is with their class, and not the class its’self.

No Thief hits “20k in 1 go”. So, unless you have some figures we can work from then I wouldn’t suggest complaining about the class in their own forum.

You wouldn’t be happy if I made a thread in Warrior forum saying something along the lines of..

“OMG a Warrior just sneaked up on me, used Shield Bash then Hundred Blades and killed me in 1 second!?!? BROKEN CLASS”

Or how about I mention Warriors infinite pool of CC?

Please..

Stompy.1387:

Next up, you say that he killed you in exactly six seconds.. How do you know this so precisely? Either you have a video of the fight (which I’d like to see) or you must have stood there calmly counting the seconds of the fight while he was killing you.. Which might explain why he killed you so quickly, if you just stood there.

Knows he died in “precisely 6 seconds”.
Doesn’t know what he died from.

Seems legit, yes?

If you’ve been shield bashed by an apparently visible yet stealthy warrior then 100 blade killed you’re not doing so well, seeing as shield bash has a ludicrously short range in the first place.

Bottom line is thief 1v1 is a better class than me, you can’t argue it’s range of escapes, hides, attack picking. A warrior is always exposed, and has terrible utilities like bull charge which often miss, and a thief can cloak right after a knockdown anyway.

I ask you this, why do you only see Mesmers and thieves troll loitering outside castles in wvw and not warriors? Because a warrior is a lot harder to use that for, he isn’t better because you think he is, he’s better because of the options his character has i. A one on one scenario and you all know it, it’s just admitting it then suggests you aren’t a good player which you won’t like.

Look at all the threads on here talking about the power of the thief, is the whole of gw wrong and you right? No….

Anyone can use a thief, you never see bad thieves, it’s easy because it’s designed for that purpose.

To get those stats you claim to have, you must have seriously low Power and Ferocity.

To be fair to the OP, 70% crit chance is achievable with those defensive stats whilst maintaining 2k power assuming he uses the unsuspecting foe trait, which increases the crit chance against stunned enemies by 50%.

That being said, I find it very unlikely that you were hit so hard so fast with those stats. I’m honestly not sure if a signet D/D build could do that sort of damage against that sort of build, and if it could then it would take a LOT more than 20% damage from a full stun>hundred blades rotation with 70% crit chance, assuming you did in fact land all the hits. If it was an evasion based build, which seems likely, then he would not have killed you so quickly. This leads me to believe you’re either exaggerating or you just got outplayed. Sorry to be blunt :/

That also being said, we’re rogues. The whole hit and run assassin thing is part of our class design, he’s clearly built for an instagib build wheras you’re on a tank build, and our defenses are balanced around our damage output. If you doubt the balancing, try taking a thief through the gate during a tower cap that’s properly defended with arrow carts, it’s no picnic with our levels of sustain. My warrior on the other hand will enjoy the free adrenaline and carry on as before.

So yeah, a specialist 1v1 build on a strong dueling class beat a group focused tank build on a less strong dueling class. Seems legit if you ask me.

Edit: He also got the drop on you by the sounds of it, which swings things heavily in his favour. That’s the disadvantage of getting burst on a build where your healing is mostly passive.

Also, what build are you using OP? I have a feeling you lack power now I think of it, since if you are using unsuspecting foe and shout heals, then you’ve only got 4 trait points for the defense line. You say you have 3.6 armor which means your power is almost certainly lacking due to having to take more toughness primary gear to reach that and not having the toughness into power trait. Try posting your build, we might be able to help you out a bit better that way

For better assistance please replicate your exact build on a buildcalc. It would help far more than your shaky word.

Splatter Paw.7238:

For better assistance please replicate your exact build on a buildcalc. It would help far more than your shaky word.

I theorycrafted a bit and a probable build he might be using is 2(the power>vit trait)/0/6/6/0 with soldier weapons/armor and knights accs (all ascended). It gives close to what he is saying with the right runes, sigils and food/oil(3600 armor, 29khp, 47% crit chance before fury). However I find it hard to believe the rest of his story(the 6s part), because a warrior with such a build has lots of tools to prolong a battle, even if he is terrible player skill-wise.

EDIT: Just to clarify.

Boldor Aran.8543:

My build is all power toughness vitality with a bit of precision. I have 29k health and 3.6 toughness, 1.8k shout heal……. 70% critical chance

This killed it.

Too many words in the OP.

I’m guessing thief was running pistol whip, and spammed it 3-4 times, and I’m assuming this was a hungry warrior that ate them all. Potentially while he was using stability as I would think he’d notice if he was getting stunned.

closest I could get to his build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQNBhYD7kpDq8wOPwUQoDxA/AF6bvF2BTBQ6pYLqCA-TFSEABF8EAcS5HS7PAnuhHV/BgDCwAXAgCVCGAAB4+2H7z+AH9oN6RPaH9oH9oH9olCoihRA-w

wait, I take back my previous post

this is extremely close to his build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQNBhYD7kpDq8wOPwUQoDxA/AF6bvF2BTBQ6pYLqCA-TFCBABA8EA2S5XV7P0nuBOV/BNlgNcQAg4CAEAAB4+2H7z+AH9oH9oH9od0je0je0jWKgKGGB-w

shadowpass.4236:

wait, I take back my previous post

this is extremely close to his build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQNBhYD7kpDq8wOPwUQoDxA/AF6bvF2BTBQ6pYLqCA-TFCBABA8EA2S5XV7P0nuBOV/BNlgNcQAg4CAEAAB4+2H7z+AH9oH9oH9od0je0je0jWKgKGGB-w

gw2skills is garbage. Does it count in 2.5k HP from Guard stacks? 300-600 from BBloodlust? Up to 10% increase from WvW server-wide bonuses? The answer is no of course. The stats OP was talking about are quite real and frankly, just as they are you can also get insane damage on a thief, getting above 3.5k power with might stacks. And as no surprise it comes using a burst combo you can even bring such a hunk down.
But honestly if you bring a group support build and complain about losing a fight to a thief. My apologies. There are many things you should consider in a fight VS thief. Getting 20 might stacks prior to the fight might just be the reason why you lost.

and this was probably the thief’s:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoYVlsMpxpVOxvJ8PNRLRt9IsBfgXnh2PQAEiA-T1BEABG8EAYa/R5Xb6DA4QAQwJAIR1f2SJYAAEgb2mt5NDc0je0je0j2Nv5Nv5NvZpAGYZE-w

I did the math and if you pull it off correctly:
Backstab will hit for 10933 base damage
4561 base damage with a single Heartseeker while above 50% health
7313 base damage with a single Heartseeker while below 50% health
9752 base damage with a single Heartseeker while below 25% health
4272 base damage Mug
One full auto attack chain will hit for 10123 base damage while below 50% health (minus the 10% damage from being under 6 initiative from using 3 heartseekers in a row)

(All with the correct damage modifiers ofc.)

In an optimal rotation:
1. You would trigger Shadow Trap.
2. Thief activates Shadow Pursuit.
3. Thief casts Assassin’s Signet.
4. Thief casts Infiltrator’s Signet.
5. Thief pre-casts Backstab
6. Thief Mugs during Backstab animation
7. Thief Heartseekers 3 times
8. Thief gets entire auto attack chain off.
9. Thief uses Heartseeker one more time.
10. Thief gets another entire auto attack chain off.
11. You are dead.

This combination alone deals 66829 damage.

After taking into account your 48% damage reduction from your armor, the thief would have dealt around 34752 damage.

Seeing as how you have 3.6k armor, 29k health, and 1.8k shout heals… let’s say u used all 3 shouts, that’s 5400 health healed.

And taking into account all 3 shout heals, the thief would actually do about 29352 damage.

Now, you “only” have 29k health. So it is and was possible for the thief to pull this off.

All of this takes under 6 seconds with or without quickness from the trait to do.

TLDR:
Yes. It is possible for a thief to destroy you while you were running your tanky build.
Also, I did not take into account any damage from sigils or additional damage from guard stacks.

So, in all honesty, it probably would have ended much quicker in game.

Edit: I just came to realize now, that a Sigil of Force would have actually added much more damage than Sigils of Fire and Air. Also, if it was night, the thief might have been running a Sigil of the Night… That would have ended it even quicker.

Evalia.7103:

shadowpass.4236:

wait, I take back my previous post

this is extremely close to his build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQNBhYD7kpDq8wOPwUQoDxA/AF6bvF2BTBQ6pYLqCA-TFCBABA8EA2S5XV7P0nuBOV/BNlgNcQAg4CAEAAB4+2H7z+AH9oH9oH9od0je0je0jWKgKGGB-w

gw2skills is garbage. Does it count in 2.5k HP from Guard stacks? 300-600 from BBloodlust? Up to 10% increase from WvW server-wide bonuses? The answer is no of course. The stats OP was talking about are quite real and frankly, just as they are you can also get insane damage on a thief, getting above 3.5k power with might stacks. And as no surprise it comes using a burst combo you can even bring such a hunk down.
But honestly if you bring a group support build and complain about losing a fight to a thief. My apologies. There are many things you should consider in a fight VS thief. Getting 20 might stacks prior to the fight might just be the reason why you lost.

uhm… why quote me?

I literally just made the build the OP was talking about… minus about 200 for each armor, prec, and vitality…. soooo… (which the server bonuses + the guard stacks probably make up for that decrease)

and I did it without guard stacks or whatnot.

I never said it wasn’t possible… lol