Guild Wars 2

I both do and do not understand the purpose of attaining only 50% crit chance on Thief.

Having every other attack (in theory) be a crit is good, but is there any reason for it not to be higher?

The way I see it is that if you’re trying to minmax, you’re just going to be pushing the Power sliders (PPF) all the way up. Anything other than that is just a tradeoff for a little bit of relaxation on your playstyle.

I’d like some insight as to why Thieves tend to aim for 50% so I can understand and improve. While I do understand, at least number-wise, why getting 100% critical chance is not very efficient in terms of stats, I don’t think I understand fundamentally.

Maybe I should just make a spreadsheet and do the numbercrunching myself so I can see where the line is drawn on Power vs Precision (or Vitality vs Precision, in a more literal translation).

Actually, a lot of thieves aim for 30% because of using the trait Hidden Killer, which gives 100% crit chance while in stealth.

Stat sacrifice is the reason why you’d not want to go any higher.

If going for higher than 50%, you’ll have to actually start losing power to get the precision, as is the case in utilizing Berserker vs Assassin gear for example.

Other reasons is because you might want more sustain, typically vitality.

Annnnd if you’re not running HK?

Esplen.3940:

Annnnd if you’re not running HK?

Already answered that. Stat sacrifice.

I’m not sure if anybody really aims for 50%, it’s just that using straight berserker gears nets you around 50% (may be just a tad more). To obtain higher crit chance you need assassin’s gear which sacrifices power, and in many builds will actually lower your dps

Precision is way overrated in this game IMO

With 6 Points in CS/HK a few zerker pieces is more than enough

Roaming in WvW especially you want to look at mixing in Valk/Cav pieces

For PvE all out zerker/sin is the way to go

It REALLY depends on the build imho. IF you run D/D or D/P you might want to get HK because you kind of need bs to crit every time if you want to take ppl down. I usually aim for 45ish crit chance on D/D because running sigil air/fire you do need something..

Then as lonewolf said going much above it means stat sacrifice which isn’t worth it because if you start losing power to gain in precision you will actually lose overall damage.

IF you’re going for the trickery line you can get good fury uptime, then about how much you should prioritize burst rather than survivability is up to your playstyle and your capability of staying alive with the tools/build you choose

HK is not good as a grandmaster trait. Maybe as a Master it would see use in PvP, but it’s just terribly weak.

In fight you’ll be getting use out of hidden killer maybe 1 hit out of every 7 to 15 seconds. And that’s only if your crit wouldn’t have procced otherwise.

Then there’s Sigil of intelligence which offers 3 auto crit every 10 or 20 seconds depending on if you have 1 or 2. The pre condition on intelligence is also easier to execute.

On 1 stealth weapon set thief 1 sigil of intelligence provides more value than hidden killer. Even though hidden killer gives the crit to you at a more opportune time.

When a sigil is > a grandmaster trait I think it’s probably not worth running, unless you have a very niche scenario.

Does anybody ever seem to find that HK just simply doesn’t proc at times?

TrOtskY.5927:

Does anybody ever seem to find that HK just simply doesn’t proc at times?

If you wait until the very last second of stealth before you backstab, you don’t get the bonus because you actually make the hit as you’re visible.

Shockwave.1230:

HK is not good as a grandmaster trait. Maybe as a Master it would see use in PvP, but it’s just terribly weak.

In fight you’ll be getting use out of hidden killer maybe 1 hit out of every 7 to 15 seconds. And that’s only if your crit wouldn’t have procced otherwise.

Then there’s Sigil of intelligence which offers 3 auto crit every 10 or 20 seconds depending on if you have 1 or 2. The pre condition on intelligence is also easier to execute.

On 1 stealth weapon set thief 1 sigil of intelligence provides more value than hidden killer. Even though hidden killer gives the crit to you at a more opportune time.

When a sigil is > a grandmaster trait I think it’s probably not worth running, unless you have a very niche scenario.

One HK proc every 7-15 seconds? What kind of build are you running? In fights I’m stabbing every four seconds if possible. I think that has to do with weapon sets and builds/styles more than HK. Permastealth D/P might bank on slow stabs, but aggro D/D will be pushing out as much damage as quickly as possible.

I think it’s pretty alright for a GM. My biggest issue is that GM traits in general come too slow. Stab thief by design is not an effective build until 80 just because it’s so dependent on HK. Sigil of intelligence is not more effective depending on HK’s use, and requires the thief to either make a mirror set which provides less combat utility, or blow a cooldown on swap and therefore be out of his stab damage for an extended period of time.

thieves also have relative good access to fury if traited, so it is not actually 50 but 70% basically

reason why i personally want 50% is because of the sigil procs like fire, air, generosity etc.

anything below 50% base crit feels barely proccing for me

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

TrOtskY.5927:

Does anybody ever seem to find that HK just simply doesn’t proc at times?

If you wait until the very last second of stealth before you backstab, you don’t get the bonus because you actually make the hit as you’re visible.

I see, I never even thought of that.
Cheers for clearing that up.

Some people never learn

TrOtskY.5927:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

TrOtskY.5927:

Does anybody ever seem to find that HK just simply doesn’t proc at times?

If you wait until the very last second of stealth before you backstab, you don’t get the bonus because you actually make the hit as you’re visible.

I see, I never even thought of that.
Cheers for clearing that up.

Yeah I sometimes use this to my advantage and CnD to maintain stealth without ever breaking stealth. (Technically I do, but shhh.)

Other than HK, I really don’t see the reason for capping your Precision. Maybe it’s because I mostly PvE instead of WvW, but… I dunno.

I’d like to see some more opinions, if I haven’t already read all of the sides to the reasoning.

They aim for 50% because it’s a round number. There isn’t anything special about it.

DeceiverX.8361:

Shockwave.1230:

HK is not good as a grandmaster trait. Maybe as a Master it would see use in PvP, but it’s just terribly weak.

In fight you’ll be getting use out of hidden killer maybe 1 hit out of every 7 to 15 seconds. And that’s only if your crit wouldn’t have procced otherwise.

Then there’s Sigil of intelligence which offers 3 auto crit every 10 or 20 seconds depending on if you have 1 or 2. The pre condition on intelligence is also easier to execute.

On 1 stealth weapon set thief 1 sigil of intelligence provides more value than hidden killer. Even though hidden killer gives the crit to you at a more opportune time.

When a sigil is > a grandmaster trait I think it’s probably not worth running, unless you have a very niche scenario.

One HK proc every 7-15 seconds? What kind of build are you running? In fights I’m stabbing every four seconds if possible. I think that has to do with weapon sets and builds/styles more than HK. Permastealth D/P might bank on slow stabs, but aggro D/D will be pushing out as much damage as quickly as possible.

I think it’s pretty alright for a GM. My biggest issue is that GM traits in general come too slow. Stab thief by design is not an effective build until 80 just because it’s so dependent on HK. Sigil of intelligence is not more effective depending on HK’s use, and requires the thief to either make a mirror set which provides less combat utility, or blow a cooldown on swap and therefore be out of his stab damage for an extended period of time.

I cant imagine in what scenario D/D would be viable.

I Almost exclusively pvp and the set has little use in that mode.

I know not these leveling issues people speak of either as everything is unlocked in PvP except some traits.

D/D is terrible in sPvP relative to the other sets but is a very cohesive set in WvW. A lot of it has to do with the stat caps in PvP not letting D/D do what it has to: deal burst damage. This combined with a very high presence of bunker builds and CnD having 33% less scaling in sPvP makes the set have very little use.

Sadly, that just has to do with PvP’s mechanics favoring bunkering and actively prohibiting faster combat/damage builds. Actually, D/D’s most effective builds in sPvP are PTV offtank and 3spam condi. Very little purpose in playing these, though.