Guild Wars 2

I love using the p/p set and I would like to contribute some suggestions to make it more viable and fun to use. We would love to get a buff for the p/p set for the HOT’s official release. I am sorry if I accidentally offended anet/the devs for gw2 for anything that I will say. I hope this post reaches out to the devs working or planning on the p/p thief set .

My p/p Ideas:
1) The range of pistol skills 1-3 to be buffed to 1200

2) The dualskill ‘Unload’ to give us movement speed while shooting and inflict vulnerability for each successful hits.

I believe with this, thieves will get more rewarded for each successful hits when using Unload. Since Upload is a risky high-rewarding move (due to the fact that after we use it our initiative gets really low for counter plays), we would like some mobility when executing it so positioning and timing can be the deciding factor for the fight. With the extra range and mobility p/p thieves could use mobility as their defense which would go well with the new DareDevil Grandmaster trait the ‘Unhindered Combatant’.

The terms “thief” and “1200” in the same sentence not only insane, but you will never hear this coming out of a Dev’s mouth/post.

your 2) vulnerability for each sucessful hit? that’s 8 vuls in like 3 seconds mate… I mean let’s be reasonable here. You can pull Unload almost 3-4 times in one setting that with vulnerability added that would tear up a Guardian in seconds.

I don’t find Unload a High risk and high reward mechanism. You simply need to make sure your target is out of endurance and then it’s GG. You can even bait them with your first Unload to be honest, and execute your moves.

I am affraid I have to disagree here. Completely. I hope you can convince me.

Frankly, you want the P/P to be a little buffed but not buffed like you suggested because I promise you won’t have fun when you killing everybody with like 2 Unload on target with 15-16 Vulnerability.

Btw on the Critical Strikes line, you could add Sundering strike which does add Vulnerability on crit. Test this out, and see witness how you tear Light or Medium armor up.

It says 8 shots, but its actually 4 “pulses,” two shots from each gun x 4.

There’s no logical reason for thief to be the only class without 1200 range. I would have taken my range with a rifle, but sadly that wasn’t to be (*cough*veryskepticalguy*cough*). I’d settle for 1050 baseline, with a bonus on Ankle Shots to 1200 or some similar arrangement. Or even something like GM trait that competes with Executioner or another highly valued trait.

The vulnerability thing is already available on #2. Also immob. With the 10% damage on targets with conditions trait (forget name), you hit 2 then 3. Or take the suggested trait and give up the distance (hard to do, I know). There’s also a sigil.

hahaha :p.

Watch this vid, P/P will be doing fine with Daredevil Trait:

I mean it was said from the very beginning, Close combat, deadly 1v1 profession. The only thing that is 1200 range for us is teleportation. Which is quick infiltration or exfiltration in the heat of battle. If Pistol gets 1200 range than what about rifle? Engineers will also start asking for their pistol range to be 1200 range… It would turn into a mess.

There would be discrepancies that wouldn’t make sense in the Virtual Reality.

Let’s hope Rifle comes for next elite spec because 900 for pistol is only reasonable.

1200 range probably just isn’t going to happen anytime soon on the thief. If you read the PvP forums, according to non-thieves, thief is finally in a good place now that it can’t 1v1 most things. That’s fine though because we’re so good at running away. None of our other skills can be buffed as long as we have shortbow, so changes to our other ranged set would just be absurd.

Kocoff.7582:

I mean it was said from the very beginning, Close combat, deadly 1v1 profession. The only thing that is 1200 range for us is teleportation. Which is quick infiltration or exfiltration in the heat of battle. If Pistol gets 1200 range than what about rifle? Engineers will also start asking for their pistol range to be 1200 range… It would turn into a mess.

There would be discrepancies that wouldn’t make sense in the Virtual Reality.

Let’s hope Rifle comes for next elite spec because 900 for pistol is only reasonable.

I’m not hearing any real reasons.

First, their pistols are different from ours—different abilities entirely. If we’re worrying about some sort of internal logic (which is weird since swords are handled so differently from class to class, to name one, or STAFF, for another. where’s my 1200 range magic projectiles??), I would simply say that it’s the difference between a street cop using a pistol and an expert marksman. The expert is just better with the same weapon.

Second, I would point out that there is at least one class and often many more, that can do everything we can do. I don’t think there are any other backstabbers, but there is no other effect, type of damage, condition, or anything else (I may be wrong, but nothing comes to mind) that some other class doesn’t have and that isn’t done better. I’m not sure why we would be the exception to that. If consistency is the issue, then giving us 1200 would create consistency, not break it. Srsly? Don’t do it because other classes would complain?

Third, let’s see some balance math. I’m not much of a theory crafter, but I’m not seeing the problem. Come to think of it, whenever this comes up in threads, I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone actually break it down beyond vague assertions.

Black Frog.9274:

Kocoff.7582:

I mean it was said from the very beginning, Close combat, deadly 1v1 profession. The only thing that is 1200 range for us is teleportation. Which is quick infiltration or exfiltration in the heat of battle. If Pistol gets 1200 range than what about rifle? Engineers will also start asking for their pistol range to be 1200 range… It would turn into a mess.

There would be discrepancies that wouldn’t make sense in the Virtual Reality.

Let’s hope Rifle comes for next elite spec because 900 for pistol is only reasonable.

I’m not hearing any real reasons.

First, their pistols are different from ours—different abilities entirely. If we’re worrying about some sort of internal logic (which is weird since swords are handled so differently from class to class, to name one, or STAFF, for another. where’s my 1200 range magic projectiles??), I would simply say that it’s the difference between a street cop using a pistol and an expert marksman. The expert is just better with the same weapon.

Second, I would point out that there is at least one class and often many more, that can do everything we can do. I don’t think there are any other backstabbers, but there is no other effect, type of damage, condition, or anything else (I may be wrong, but nothing comes to mind) that some other class doesn’t have and that isn’t done better. I’m not sure why we would be the exception to that. If consistency is the issue, then giving us 1200 would create consistency, not break it. Srsly? Don’t do it because other classes would complain?

Third, let’s see some balance math. I’m not much of a theory crafter, but I’m not seeing the problem. Come to think of it, whenever this comes up in threads, I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone actually break it down beyond vague assertions.

Idk what you mean by balance math, because we would need to implement a 1200 range pistol to test how it would affect everyone’s gameplay, and that won’t happen ever.

It doesn’t matter if their pistol is different from ours, It’s another profession and the game ties character skills to weapons. So it’s only natural that it is different from ours.

The weapon itself though is 900 range. period. Mesmer has 1200 range offhand Pistol but if you read the skills, Phantasmal Duelist and Magic Bullet are completely infused with magic.

Mesmer pistol skills are not limited to physical attacks like engineer’s and Thieve’s.
This same rule applies to Revenant Hammer auto attack, they are not actually using the hammer, they are using it as a catalyst to throw mystical hammers.

And I agree with the street cop and expert marksman analogy. This is the concept which allowed us to Richochet our bullets with Unload like pros. But again, it doesn’t change the fact that in this game, a pistol is 900 range.

You still have yet to answer a question that is just as important : if you make pistol 1200 range, what about rifle that is already 1200? It is not logical that a pistol has the same range as a rifle. That would create some real imbalance imo.

There are plenty of other arguments against 1200 range pistol or range weapon for Thief.

I just don’t get your “logic” for ranges. The ranges of the game’s bow/rifle whether actual or relative to each other have no bearing on reality. And the difference between a “short” bow (in D&D and other games its comparable to a horse bow) and a pistol isn’t realistic either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_longbow#Range
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper_rifle#Maximum_effective_range
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_bow#Range

If we wanted to get comparative about it and set it up according to real world constraints, pistol would either have even less range relative to the other two (and short bow more than currently) or bows, rifles, and pistols would have much, much more range.

You’re also making my point about your claim that other classes will want extra range. They may want it, but the point and purpose of our use of the pistol is very different than theirs. So why would/should that be a barrier?

It sounds like there’s no balance argument here. Just the inertia of “how things have been.” It doesn’t appear like it would have any game breaking qualities and the only thing I’m hearing is “it’s a flavor thing.”

Yeah. Still not convinced. I don’t think it’s right to drift away from the “flavor thing” and i think this is a valid argument. They need to develop the Thief on a particular set of ideas. Getting away form that is counterproductive.

“Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which can make them very hard to hit.”

I don’t see 1200 range in any of this. acrobatic moves don’t count when you are at 1200 range, same as moving through the shadows… you are already hard to hit in melee , so this range improve will make it truly insane.

So yeah we keep going in circles. it’s ok.

All Im saying is that (at least) with an increase in p/p range and a movement speed buff while using ‘Unload’ we can have more plays and counter plays with the p/p set.

We thieves are a very acrobatic class, all of our dual wield skills has some kind of evade, shadow step or cc (with pistol whip’s 1/2sec stun) except for the ‘Unload’. So what I am hoping is that we get is, some kind of movement enhancement for p/p’s dual wield skill. Ofcourse this proposed buff is only for fun’s sake because the thief is undeniably the most fun gw2 class! YAYY!!!

What was so good about p/p? The only time I seen unload to be of any use is probably through feilds and that’s about it. Can any 1 explain the hype over p/p?

Fat Disgrace.4275:

What was so good about p/p? The only time I seen unload to be of any use is probably through feilds and that’s about it. Can any 1 explain the hype over p/p?

P/P was never inherently ‘good’. It was servicable with Ricochet. It is a cool set though, and people like the look of it. The obvious next step is then to want it to be a worthwhile choice.

I’m currently using it on a condi venom roamer. 1 Unload loads a player up on a fair bit condi, making for a nice opener.

Black Frog.9274:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_longbow#Range
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper_rifle#Maximum_effective_range
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_bow#Range

If we wanted to get comparative about it and set it up according to real world constraints, pistol would either have even less range relative to the other two (and short bow more than currently) or bows, rifles, and pistols would have much, much more range.

You would also be dead tired pulling back a +75lb bow (worse yet, 120lb english longbows used in war, pulled back and released quickly since they volleyed it across distances at other armies) after like an hour unless you’re very physically fit… besides that you wouldn’t shoot/reload fast – and no, don’t mention lars anderson, because he’s a trick shooter. Besides that, bows require more training than a gun. Pistols close range will outmatch bows. Long range, rifles will outmatch bows. Like there’s a reason why the military now-a-days doesn’t use (even modern) bows (also against the Geneva convention)… Though, at one point in time, when gunpowder first came around, and the first rifles where made, trained archers could outmatch somewhat trained rifleman (reload speed, the fact that the bullet didn’t necessarily go through you, whereas something like +80lb probably would (depending on if they wore platted armor, and whatnot, don’t think rifleman did?) and even if it doesnt it will make you bleed a lot more, the only reason rifles prevailed is the easy of use – an over exaggerated example is that you can give a gun to a kid and he can pull the trigger, whereas if you give the same kid a bow with a minimum draw weight for hunting (most places now-a-days it’s 40lb) he won’t be able to pull it back to it’s draw weight, due to strength and well his arm span. Aiming is also another thing, depending on the type of aiming you do (and considering they probably didn’t have bow sights back then), the most primitive one, called “instinctive” shooting, takes years to become good at.

Basically, comparing rifles/pistols (that in this game seem to be semi-auto with infinite ammo – well the bow has infinite ammo too) is a bit silly. Also, dodge rolling with a bow… um…. yeah…

So, leave reality out of games. It’s already good enough that some of the bow animation actually show relatively proper form when they’re drawing back.