In this video http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2guru/b/377719641 ANet states that the Revealed debuff will always be applied whether you attack in stealth or not next patch. This is a massive nerf to a lot of builds (most notably Backstab Thieves). I think a good compromise to prevent mass rerolls and effectively ruining dagger offhand thieves would be to reduce the revealed debuff by a second. This would still prevent perma-stealth while not punishing the player base for picking a class that was suppose to be based on subterfuge. Another possible fix would be to increase all stealth duration by a second to enable thieves to make up for not having comparable HP and armor of other classes (Warrior, Necro, Guardian).
Thoughts?
It’s only a nerf if you sit your kitten spamming Cloak and Dagger.
If you’re actually playing the game you’ll rarely notice it.
No, you’ll still notice it. Im a patient thief, if I know a backstab isn’t worth it or I can’t get a good angle, I’ll wait it out, now I can’t do that.
So this means the fall damage trait will basically be an automatic Revealed debuff any time you fall very far.
Last Refuge will also become an even more thorough death sentence than it already is.
So this means the fall damage trait will basically be an automatic Revealed debuff any time you fall very far.
Last Refuge will also become an even more thorough death sentence than it already is.
It’s only a nerf if you sit your kitten spamming Cloak and Dagger.
If you’re actually playing the game you’ll rarely notice it.
No, you’ll still notice it. Im a patient thief, if I know a backstab isn’t worth it or I can’t get a good angle, I’ll wait it out, now I can’t do that.
Thought I just said that.
If you’re hitting CnD as soon as you come out of stealth you’ll feel it, otherwise it’ll be marginal.
Yeah how well did that work out for the dinosaurs? The velociraptors were experts in the art of stealth and ever since that K-T Event patch hit nerfing every class, the entire system fell. The same will happen to us man.
Yeah how well did that work out for the dinosaurs? The velociraptors were experts in the art of stealth and ever since that K-T Event patch hit nerfing every class, the entire system fell. The same will happen to us man.
Haha what? So this is like a meteor hitting the Thief planet? This doesn’t have any effect on any normal fight. It will make Thief vs Thief way less annoying for one. Even 1v5 or so, you come out and take a few swings then re-enter stelath otherwise you aren’t doing any damage. It only stops Thieves from doing C&D DPS every 3 seconds to regen health instead of running to reset if they start losing. Really not a big deal. You will still be able to bail when you are starting to go down, you just can’t actually stay in the middle of the 5 of them and regen all your health. If they were going to nerf stealth, this is probably the best case scenario.
Yeah how well did that work out for the dinosaurs? The velociraptors were experts in the art of stealth and ever since that K-T Event patch hit nerfing every class, the entire system fell. The same will happen to us man.
Haha what? So this is like a meteor hitting the Thief planet? This doesn’t have any effect on any normal fight. It will make Thief vs Thief way less annoying for one. Even 1v5 or so, you come out and take a few swings then re-enter stelath otherwise you aren’t doing any damage. It only stops Thieves from doing C&D DPS every 3 seconds to regen health instead of running to reset if they start losing. Really not a big deal. You will still be able to bail when you are starting to go down, you just can’t actually stay in the middle of the 5 of them and regen all your health. If they were going to nerf stealth, this is probably the best case scenario.
Haha what? Did you actually take that post seriously? I start comparing us to dinosaurs, and you take me seriously? Come on now. My only gripe with this is I have two weeks to get a face full of potential zerg slaying because after this patch oh boy.
Yeah how well did that work out for the dinosaurs? The velociraptors were experts in the art of stealth and ever since that K-T Event patch hit nerfing every class, the entire system fell. The same will happen to us man.
Haha what? So this is like a meteor hitting the Thief planet? This doesn’t have any effect on any normal fight. It will make Thief vs Thief way less annoying for one. Even 1v5 or so, you come out and take a few swings then re-enter stelath otherwise you aren’t doing any damage. It only stops Thieves from doing C&D DPS every 3 seconds to regen health instead of running to reset if they start losing. Really not a big deal. You will still be able to bail when you are starting to go down, you just can’t actually stay in the middle of the 5 of them and regen all your health. If they were going to nerf stealth, this is probably the best case scenario.
Haha what? Did you actually take that post seriously? I start comparing us to dinosaurs, and you take me seriously? Come on now. My only gripe with this is I have two weeks to get a face full of potential zerg slaying because after this patch oh boy.
Yeah how well did that work out for the dinosaurs? The velociraptors were experts in the art of stealth and ever since that K-T Event patch hit nerfing every class, the entire system fell. The same will happen to us man.
Haha what? So this is like a meteor hitting the Thief planet? This doesn’t have any effect on any normal fight. It will make Thief vs Thief way less annoying for one. Even 1v5 or so, you come out and take a few swings then re-enter stelath otherwise you aren’t doing any damage. It only stops Thieves from doing C&D DPS every 3 seconds to regen health instead of running to reset if they start losing. Really not a big deal. You will still be able to bail when you are starting to go down, you just can’t actually stay in the middle of the 5 of them and regen all your health. If they were going to nerf stealth, this is probably the best case scenario.
Haha what? Did you actually take that post seriously? I start comparing us to dinosaurs, and you take me seriously? Come on now. My only gripe with this is I have two weeks to get a face full of potential zerg slaying because after this patch oh boy.
I don’t know… how often do you chain stealth? If you want to chain, go D/P and trait init regen. Nothing indicates you can’t stack/chain a bunch of stealth together. This only effects the uber trolls who are usually trops/poison arrowing from stealth. It also makes it so D/P thieves who spec more for damage can’t chain as quickly, although it won’t do much because good because you can just sit in your smoke in relative safety then HS out when reveal drops. It for sure will make thief vs thief a lot less of a waist of time.
To add to all of this, they said they would be giving thieves “boon hate” which will make us do more damage the more boons are on our target. They said they want us to be the king of mobility even over the Ele so we are going to get more shortbow style mobility on our other weapon-sets. There may be a Mug nerf in there but no real detail. Sounds like they want Mug to work more with stealth instead of just being anytime damage. Overall the total package still looks good. They want us to be the kings of skirmishing an mobility. Imagine if we had Ele’s mobility…
Yeah how well did that work out for the dinosaurs? The velociraptors were experts in the art of stealth and ever since that K-T Event patch hit nerfing every class, the entire system fell. The same will happen to us man.
Haha what? So this is like a meteor hitting the Thief planet? This doesn’t have any effect on any normal fight. It will make Thief vs Thief way less annoying for one. Even 1v5 or so, you come out and take a few swings then re-enter stelath otherwise you aren’t doing any damage. It only stops Thieves from doing C&D DPS every 3 seconds to regen health instead of running to reset if they start losing. Really not a big deal. You will still be able to bail when you are starting to go down, you just can’t actually stay in the middle of the 5 of them and regen all your health. If they were going to nerf stealth, this is probably the best case scenario.
Chain stealth is a playstyle and quite frankly it increases the thief’s survivability so they can fight toe to toe vs other classes. To me, this nerf put our survivability at the bottom of the barrel. This is speaking from a D/D WvW perceptive.
I play a thief and an ele because they are the few classes that can 1vsX. If thief can’t do that anymore, I might go back to the ele. Sorry, but I’m not going to play a water down Warrior with slightly more mobility. Oh well, only time will tell…
I don’t know… how often do you chain stealth? If you want to chain, go D/P and trait init regen. Nothing indicates you can’t stack/chain a bunch of stealth together.
You could always stack stealth so long as you don’t deal damage to grant yourself stealth while in it. Outside of SR or running with multiple thieves, there’s no real effective way of doing that in combat.
This only effects the uber trolls who are usually trops/poison arrowing from stealth. It also makes it so D/P thieves who spec more for damage can’t chain as quickly, although it won’t do much because good because you can just sit in your smoke in relative safety then HS out when reveal drops. It for sure will make thief vs thief a lot less of a waist of time.
It also makes bad thieves who refuse to wait for optimal backstab situations and spam CnD think a little bit before doing so.
This isn’t as much about a stealth nerf as it is about a noob nerf. This makes the class a little less ‘noob proof’ as its currently the mulligan class of GW2.
To add to all of this, they said they would be giving thieves “boon hate” which will make us do more damage the more boons are on our target.
Actually, that was a warrior thing. Never mentioned the thief once when talking about “boon hate.” With all the burst damage and movement he gets, I’d be surprised if he even got anything remotely close to that mechanic.
If this goes through probably will re-roll as a new ele immediately. Did not get this game to play a thief that can’t stealth. Might as well play a warrior or another class if they are going to kill off the thief. Bai.
To add to all of this, they said they would be giving thieves “boon hate” which will make us do more damage the more boons are on our target.
Actually, that was a warrior thing. Never mentioned the thief once when talking about “boon hate.” With all the burst damage and movement he gets, I’d be surprised if he even got anything remotely close to that mechanic.
I don’t think you were listening properly. He said, at great length, how they were going to give thieves some form of boon removal or boon “hate” so that they could take down Bunker builds more effectively than other classes, allowing them to take on more of their intended role of striking down key targets. Only after discussing this for thieves for a while did he very casually mention that warriors would likely get something similar.
They explained part of the reason Thief has such high damage was to power through boons. However they feel it’s possible to give them boon removal so they can deconstruct defenses, but in return they don’t need such high damage.
They explained part of the reason Thief has such high damage was to power through boons. However they feel it’s possible to give them boon removal so they can deconstruct defenses, but in return they don’t need such high damage.
So right now we can’t kill bunker ele/guardians because they have crazy buffs, and after the patch we can’t kill them because our damage is too low… I’ll just continue to avoid bunkers, not worth the time.
It’s only a nerf if you sit your kitten spamming Cloak and Dagger.
If you’re actually playing the game you’ll rarely notice it.
Using CnD spam as an offhand dagger thief is the only way to effectively wear down eles and mesmers and make them burn through their cool downs so you can actually kill them. Getting revealed no matter how stealth drops is going to make every thief die to every mesmers clone exploding invincible sword stab bullcrap insta-death move. And also going to make fighting bunker eles impossible. That’s exactly what this game needs, the removal of skill being a factor in whether or not you can win a fight.
They explained part of the reason Thief has such high damage was to power through boons. However they feel it’s possible to give them boon removal so they can deconstruct defenses, but in return they don’t need such high damage.
So right now we can’t kill bunker ele/guardians because they have crazy buffs, and after the patch we can’t kill them because our damage is too low… I’ll just continue to avoid bunkers, not worth the time.
But how are those classes getting butkittened?
We have no idea how the mechanic will work.. what if it’s 10% dmg per boon on your target? What if we get a trait that ignores protection?
The main thing is they still want us to be a heavy damage prof that can take down injured players very quickly along with having the highest mobility and stealth.
It’s only a nerf if you sit your kitten spamming Cloak and Dagger.
If you’re actually playing the game you’ll rarely notice it.
Using CnD spam as an offhand dagger thief is the only way to effectively wear down eles and mesmers and make them burn through their cool downs so you can actually kill them. Getting revealed no matter how stealth drops is going to make every thief die to every mesmers clone exploding invincible sword stab bullcrap insta-death move. And also going to make fighting bunker eles impossible. That’s exactly what this game needs, the removal of skill being a factor in whether or not you can win a fight.
NOT true. Wise use of infiltrator’s strike, and the occasional daze will destroy any mesmer. Most D/D ele’s rely on boon stacking which can be stopped easily with some good flanking strike use.
Sounds like people are still running the wrong armor and weapon sets in PvP…..
Seeing as how you can move your traits and utilities around to compensate for this, I’d spend more time planning on how to survive for 3 seconds (lol) than I would complaining about it.
Try it before you knock it.
Christian. Husband. Father. Friend. Developer. Gamer.
Try your best to not make mistakes, but, when you do make mistakes, learn from them.
Better yourself.
Seeing as how you can move your traits and utilities around to compensate for this, I’d spend more time planning on how to survive for 3 seconds (lol) than I would complaining about it.
Try it before you knock it.
If people really want to, get 15 in acro and use the 40% endo regen food. Perma vigor with Feline Grace… pretty much endless evades.
I like using Hidden Killer in my build so I was already getting the reveal buff since I always attack from stealth unless I am on the defensive and I expect to be in combat for a few seconds before I try to stealth again.
I do see this making me think a bit more about my choices, but I doubt it will change much.
I feel like this change won’t affect me much, personally, since I usually space my stealth a few seconds apart anyways. Varying the stealth time is less predictable for people trying to CC me.
The only times this is going to be a possible problem for me is when I’m trying to bail from a losing battle, but on those occasions I think the class is still adaptable enough to survive. That, or I need to play better.
Woot! I’ve influenced two much more veteran thieves! Lol.
Nice thing is the above leaves you with 10 trait points (if you take all of those traits). This would allow you to put them in Acrobatics to get back endurance when you dodge and pick a 20 pt trait (like heal when use initiative), put them in Deadly Arts for poison on steal and probably Mug (if it’s not nerfed too badly), or put them in Critical Strikes for the always welcomed Hidden Killer or Executioner.
If you wanted to use Withdraw, that’s still a great 15 second cooldown that is also a dodge roll and removes chill, cripple, and immobilize. You’d lose out on the 2 Signet traits, but maybe that’s worth it for those benefits and it opens up more trait points.
Christian. Husband. Father. Friend. Developer. Gamer.
Try your best to not make mistakes, but, when you do make mistakes, learn from them.
Better yourself.
My biggest concern is the lack of condition purging with the build…. But I guess going cheesy P/D with that extra 10 points in SA for condition purging might bring this into a really good place.
Woot! I’ve influenced two much more veteran thieves! Lol.
Nice thing is the above leaves you with 10 trait points (if you take all of those traits). This would allow you to put them in Acrobatics to get back endurance when you dodge and pick a 20 pt trait (like heal when use initiative), put them in Deadly Arts for poison on steal and probably Mug (if it’s not nerfed too badly), or put them in Critical Strikes for the always welcomed Hidden Killer or Executioner.
If you wanted to use Withdraw, that’s still a great 15 second cooldown that is also a dodge roll and removes chill, cripple, and immobilize. You’d lose out on the 2 Signet traits, but maybe that’s worth it for those benefits and it opens up more trait points.
If you run withdraw, you’d basically be running my evasion condition build I ran at release. It was 25-0-0-15-30, using D/D for LDB bleed applications/evades, withdraw, RFI, and Shadowstep. Also used runes of the adventurer for endurance regen on heal. End result was a near perma evade state in combat.
Hey, as Sifu.6527 already stated, we would like you to stay on topic as it comes off as disrespectful to the OP and derails the thread from topic. If there is another topic you would like to discuss feel free to open a dedicated thread for it.
I don’t see this change affecting me at all. I main thief and I still believe stealth is too flexible atm. Many people are capable of pulling off continous stealth even without dagger off-hand. When I ran stealth thief in spvp, I only used it for either a powerful initiation (BS) or to escape. Either way, I wasn’t running into any issue with not being able to stealth right there and then.
They could increase stealth duration for having 15 in SA to 2 seconds but increase revealed duration. Minor increase in stealth duration for the trade of a longer revealed. Personally I don’t really like the whole shadow act thief is in right now. 1 minute or 30 second or w/e stealth isn’t good but neither is 3 seconds in, 3 secoudns out, 3 seconds in, 3 seconds out.. I like to see my target dieing not watch them vanish into the downed state
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
I don’t know… how often do you chain stealth? If you want to chain, go D/P and trait init regen. Nothing indicates you can’t stack/chain a bunch of stealth together. This only effects the uber trolls who are usually trops/poison arrowing from stealth. It also makes it so D/P thieves who spec more for damage can’t chain as quickly, although it won’t do much because good because you can just sit in your smoke in relative safety then HS out when reveal drops. It for sure will make thief vs thief a lot less of a waist of time.
To add to all of this, they said they would be giving thieves “boon hate” which will make us do more damage the more boons are on our target. They said they want us to be the king of mobility even over the Ele so we are going to get more shortbow style mobility on our other weapon-sets. There may be a Mug nerf in there but no real detail. Sounds like they want Mug to work more with stealth instead of just being anytime damage. Overall the total package still looks good. They want us to be the kings of skirmishing an mobility. Imagine if we had Ele’s mobility…
Since I was being sarcastic since spamming 3 requires nearly no skill. In reality I would take the 10 points I have in for hidden killer (I run 0-30-30-10-0) and put them into acrobatics combine that with initiative regen plus the dodge minor and a dagger and your pretty much set for dodging through the revealed and having enough into to run away or stealth away.
Kor The Cold Heart War Wrekkes-Engineer Kore Rok Thief-Asraithe-Ele
It’s only a nerf if you sit your kitten spamming Cloak and Dagger.
If you’re actually playing the game you’ll rarely notice it.
Using CnD spam as an offhand dagger thief is the only way to effectively wear down eles and mesmers and make them burn through their cool downs so you can actually kill them. Getting revealed no matter how stealth drops is going to make every thief die to every mesmers clone exploding invincible sword stab bullcrap insta-death move. And also going to make fighting bunker eles impossible. That’s exactly what this game needs, the removal of skill being a factor in whether or not you can win a fight.
NOT true. Wise use of infiltrator’s strike, and the occasional daze will destroy any mesmer. Most D/D ele’s rely on boon stacking which can be stopped easily with some good flanking strike use.
Sounds like people are still running the wrong armor and weapon sets in PvP…..
ya, hold on while I switch to sword and dagger or whatever the current bandwagon weapon set is.
It’s only a nerf if you sit your kitten spamming Cloak and Dagger.
If you’re actually playing the game you’ll rarely notice it.
Using CnD spam as an offhand dagger thief is the only way to effectively wear down eles and mesmers and make them burn through their cool downs so you can actually kill them. Getting revealed no matter how stealth drops is going to make every thief die to every mesmers clone exploding invincible sword stab bullcrap insta-death move. And also going to make fighting bunker eles impossible. That’s exactly what this game needs, the removal of skill being a factor in whether or not you can win a fight.
NOT true. Wise use of infiltrator’s strike, and the occasional daze will destroy any mesmer. Most D/D ele’s rely on boon stacking which can be stopped easily with some good flanking strike use.
Sounds like people are still running the wrong armor and weapon sets in PvP…..
ya, hold on while I switch to sword and dagger or whatever the current bandwagon weapon set is.
For the topic of class v class, I agree with wish here. I dont consider it CnD spamming when you are fighting a mesmer and you chain off of his clones to get to the real guy. Now fighting them will be difficult. Yeah infl strike works but you are essentially telling me to overhaul my shadow thief (10/30/30/0/0 D/D SB) just for a mesmer? I liked this build because it could handle any situation with the right experience(D/D eles are still a pain in the kitten but now that I cant use those 3 seconds of stealth to locate the real mesmer, since some of them are really good at pretending to be a clone, I am now forced to go from being a patient thief to a bloodthirsty one, which Im sure many of you know, gets you killed.
