Guild Wars 2

Anyone who plays a Thief, even part-time, and frequents the Forums has seen multiple
Threads regarding Stealth as a problem. I’m honestly going to use a post I made on a complaint thread in the WvW Forum earlier as a sort of “Go-To” response, from here on out. Especially since I’d actually like to see what other Thief players make of the idea as a whole.

Advent.6193:

Meh. You lot have reasonable complaints, RE: Stealth. I personally run Evasion-spec on my own Thief, because I’ve got a couple issues with how it was implemented. However, to “bring down” Thief Stealth, you would have to enhance either their Health, access to defensive Boons (Prot/Stability, for instance), and/or their overall Armor level. Let alone how changing Stealth impacts the Shadow Arts Traits.

The “big” issues on Thief Stealth are honestly minor:

1. TBH, hitting an opponent’s Block should de-stealth you. If only because you have physically contacted their body. Who wouldn’t notice being struck?
2. Assuming full “Troll-Mode”: it’s too easy to chain Stealth abilities. However, lowering that ability goes back to my mention of why it’s set that way on Thieves. Stealth and Evasion are the twin pillars of Thief defense. We can’t honestly “nerf” one without doing something positive to the other.
3. As many posters have mentioned in past threads of this nature, this is probably why the GW1 Assassin focused on movement, as opposed to “Ninja-Vanish!” abilities. Too hard to balance multiple Stealth routines and keep it fair for both Stealth-User and Stealth-Victim.

TL;DR:
It’s A-OK to have an issue with Stealth in specific, or the focused variant used by Thieves. But, any change to bring Stealth’s power down WILL have troublesome consequences. Especially when one considers how many Traits Thieves utilize that directly involve Stealth.

So, my question is:
Is it even remotely possible to balance Stealth as an ability, entire? Note, that I do not support the idea of nerfing any ability wholesale, sans compensation.

There is nothing to balance because stealth requires a completely different realm of gameplay to play against. Like everything in existence, first-hand experience as a thief makes fighting a thief easy to predict and counter. For thieves specifically, that would be playing the class itself.

The phrase “L2P” that thieves constantly use is the finger pointing in the direction of the information one needs to to defend themselves against it because even though an invisible thief cannot be telegraphed they can be thwarted.
Like I said, completely different realm of gameplay.

Am I missing the part where Stealth is a problem?

I understand that people want to change it, but the question I have is – what is the problem? What needs to be balanced?

There’s no room for discussion here.

I understand that people want to change it, but the question I have is – what is the problem? What needs to be balanced?

essentially, in WvW that permastealth equates to infinite ability to choose engagements and/or to disengage

coupled with the wide availability of stealth

a good thief won’t win every fight but they have no reason to ever die (which, for example, deprives other players of the rewards for winning a fight.)

I just think that moving normal speed or faster than normal while stealthed is…. Dumb.
Add time to stealth abilities, i don’t care. Reduce movement speed when stealthed.

Except we are run into the problem with veil from a mesmer. Being a wvw player…. I don’t know how it would work…

I don’t know. Extensive testing would have to be done if stealth was to be changed and I think thief would get screwed over too bad. The whole class would need rebalanced, and I doubt anet would commit the resources.

Double edged sword either way. We have lived for over a year as it is, and it pains me to say, leave it alone.

That was one issue I forgot, Omnitek … movement speed while stealthed is a rather odd one.
Concepts like that are, honestly, the whole reason I cross-posted that bit: I’ve noticed a lot, and I mean a lot of anti-stealth or anti-thief threads over the months. That kind of thing eventually gets a guy to thinking. But, it’s like I pointed out personally, the stealth bit’s woven too far into the class to even really think about alterations, at this time.
It’d be rather like removing DS from Necros, or Clones from Mesmers. I’d say Pets from Rangers, but a lot of Ranger players honestly wish for said removal.

Shoe.5821:

I understand that people want to change it, but the question I have is – what is the problem? What needs to be balanced?

essentially, in WvW that permastealth equates to infinite ability to choose engagements and/or to disengage

coupled with the wide availability of stealth

a good thief won’t win every fight but they have no reason to ever die (which, for example, deprives other players of the rewards for winning a fight.)

If you failed to kill a Thief, you failed to win a fight, therefore you don’t deserve a reward.

And why is that a problem? Warriors can disengage and run away faster than a Thief and they don’t even need stealth.

Again, what’s the problem with stealth?

Omnitek.3876:

I just think that moving normal speed or faster than normal while stealthed is…. Dumb.

Thieves can move from point A to point B within the casting range in an instant…why increase of movement speed while in stealth an issue? Are you then going to suggest that shadowstep is also dumb?

Besides, that’s off topic.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Shoe.5821:

I understand that people want to change it, but the question I have is – what is the problem? What needs to be balanced?

essentially, in WvW that permastealth equates to infinite ability to choose engagements and/or to disengage

coupled with the wide availability of stealth

a good thief won’t win every fight but they have no reason to ever die (which, for example, deprives other players of the rewards for winning a fight.)

If you failed to kill a Thief, you failed to win a fight, therefore you don’t deserve a reward.

And why is that a problem? Warriors can disengage and run away faster than a Thief and they don’t even need stealth.

Again, what’s the problem with stealth?

because for a warrior to do that they need to be next to useless in combat, thieves just need a dagger or a shortbow, and they have stealth.
and not to mention ive never seen a warrior do this.

Dagraan.2854:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Shoe.5821:

I understand that people want to change it, but the question I have is – what is the problem? What needs to be balanced?

essentially, in WvW that permastealth equates to infinite ability to choose engagements and/or to disengage

coupled with the wide availability of stealth

a good thief won’t win every fight but they have no reason to ever die (which, for example, deprives other players of the rewards for winning a fight.)

If you failed to kill a Thief, you failed to win a fight, therefore you don’t deserve a reward.

And why is that a problem? Warriors can disengage and run away faster than a Thief and they don’t even need stealth.

Again, what’s the problem with stealth?

because for a warrior to do that they need to be next to useless in combat, thieves just need a dagger or a shortbow, and they have stealth.
and not to mention ive never seen a warrior do this.

Using an argument for a thief exploiting into a spawn to nerf the utility of thief doesn’t make sense. It’s a glitch and you should report him. There’s a spawnwall which is supposed to block people from getting inside, whether he used some sort of teleport(not exclusive to the thief, I may add) to get inside, or not, there’s no grounds for nerfing a complete class because someone decided it would be fun to exploit.

It boggles me that people still can’t see complete invisibility in a game like this as a problem. Oh wait, no it doesn’t. People are pathetic.

Sil.4560:

It boggles me that people still can’t see complete invisibility in a game like this as a problem. Oh wait, no it doesn’t. People are pathetic.

Of course we can’t see complete invisibility. What are you talking about?

ehem, jokes aside, it’s a bit late to remove stealth without some major changes and many lost fans. gw2 will probably just live with this elephant on it’s back.

It’s a common thing in games. Despite the many failings of stealth, people keep adding it into games. It’s like a habit that you don’t realize is bad until the forums explode, and by then it’s too late.

Since the topic regarding stealth go on thief forums, and (mesmers /engin/rangers) got also that ability, i’l assume topic is about chainned stealth
1. Hide in shadows – 3 seconds stealth (4 with trait)- arround 5k heal -compared :
ranger – maybe the best heal ingame (long duration water field, group heal)
warrior – 8300 heal -full adrenaline ( would be full initiative -cool -i’l take it)
mesmer – instant cast x 2 heals( 3 trained)
guardian (pasive cond removal – 8000 active heal) … etc
2. shadow refuge – now that’s an strong stealth ability, 12 seconds stealth , but so easy to counter ( 1.mesmer -greatsword area knockback //2. ranger -knockback and channeling attacks, pet fear //3. warrior – more then 1 area knockbacks //4. engineir -area knockback //5. guard -shield area knockback /sanctuary / hammer knockback //6. necro – fear and 7 . elementalist can knockback you , or can kill you in 3 seconds in that area)
3. bliding powder – an 3 seconds stealth every 40 seconds ( more classes got better stealth ability)
So since those are not the Overpowered ability’s i’l assume we talk about weapon skills : CnD – require an target (130 range -3/4 seconds cast time) – can be countered by blind / dodge /block
black powder + HS /blast – can be countered same way like shadow refuge , knock back thief out of his black powder // aoe on his blackpowder from range
But since there will always be complains related to assasin class, specialy from wvwvw side , A-net decided to add stealth traps, wich are far from expensive.

This is a great addition to the game. Finally after one year there is a single counterplay element to stealth!

Thieves are one of the most disliked professions in the game, everyone has been trolled by a perma-stealth thief in WvW at least once, and it is frustrating. It’s like fighting the predator. If they can’t win they just stealth away. No one profession should have that strength.

And yes, I also think warrior mobility should be toned down too, seeing as they completely negate the one counterplay element they have with dogged march/lemongrass poultry/melandru runes (near 90 percent reduction to snare/root/chill) but that isn’t going to happen anytime soon unfortunately.

There should be serious risk going into a 1v5. It should never be a casual experience to pick off one player in a group then merrily stealth and leave.

This news does make me want to dust off the level 50 ranger and level/gear him up.

I m not against anti stealth skills in wvw as long as it stays in wvw. Tpvp is a different story. Also thief has little viability in wvw zergs if any at all and is a major part of the troll thief problem. I remember seeing peep say “i think im gonna log my thief and troll some kills in wvw” I think nerfing that is one thing but they need to give back something in return something that would benefit thieves in squads.

To those that say that this is the first counter play to stealth, let me tell you that there always was counter play to stealth, only noobs don’t know it!
- Fear
- knock back
- knock down,
- aoe dmg
- pets/clones/phantoms
- torrents
- channeled abilities
- walls (mesmers & necros)
- traps
- marks
- wvwvw stealth trap

so yeah… Good thing they are adding the first way to counter stealth in game after 1year.

Volrath.1473:

To those that say that this is the first counter play to stealth, let me tell you that there always was counter play to stealth, only noobs don’t know it!
- Fear
- knock back
- knock down,
- aoe dmg
- pets/clones/phantoms
- torrents
- channeled abilities
- walls (mesmers & necros)
- traps
- marks
- wvwvw stealth trap

so yeah… Good thing they are adding the first way to counter stealth in game after 1year.

Are you serious?
Let’s refute some of these claims.
A good thief will avoid all those aoes you list. Do you seriously run into marks, traps, aoes? I easily avoid most of these in a 1v1 situation on my engineer. A thief can easily do this while invisible as the opponent has no idea where you are.

Channeled abilities? What thief goes stealth then stands in range of the channeled ability? Rapid Fire has 1800 range with eagle eye (a bug I know) So you are probably referreing to this, but a thief has numerous movement skills that they can employ to get out of range, not to mention that you can dodge roll half of the attacks.

This just sounds like another thief claiming L2P when they know that they have the most access to the one ability in the game that has ZERO counters. (rangers/mesmers/engineers have access to it to, but it is nowhere near permanent). Stealth has zero counters and you know it. Everything you listed counters bad players, not the stealth ability itself.

Arguing this is pointless though. Stealth is getting counters and their is nothing you can do about it. The developers are adding it into the game, and short of forming a petition, running for congress, and passing a bill that outlaws anet from adding it, you are going to have to learn how to adjust. Every other roamer has adjusted their builds to stand up against thieves, now its your time to adjust to us. And seriously, it’s literally only the ranger, and Sic Em is a TARGETED ability.

I however, do still plan on leveling up my ranger and becoming somewhat decent at it just to hunt thieves in WvW. The tears taste so delicious.

Good luck on finding thieves!

I am sorry you feel this way. You have had one year killing people carte-blanche with little to no risk involved. Now you have to adjust your play-style to one profession that is going to bring a stealth reveal ability.

Advent.6193:

1. TBH, hitting an opponent’s Block should de-stealth you. If only because you have physically contacted their body. Who wouldn’t notice being struck?

When you explain to me how the shield you’re holding in your offhand “blocks” a dagger being drilled between your shoulder blades, we’ll talk about block de-stealthing. Until then, lets leave it as it is.

It makes me a sad panda knowing the balance of the profession I like the most is biased by certain people. ((( SADDDD PANDAAAAA

Though i generally avoid wvw i believe perma- stealth is enhanced by the terrain and the long distances in wvw and its also the food and the gear stat contribution that allows kills to be performed so quickly. I really dont think this change wil even have an impact in wvw especially since its single target and the added benefit is situational. Those who didnt use it before patch wont be using it long after the patch. And i read on the ranger forums that alot of peep think the skill is still not worth picking.

However this change might end up being a hard counter in tpvp. Fighting necro ranger warrior 70% of the time nowdays and its already fustrating enough. Im against this being added in tpvp as well.

Eodwen.2613:

Though i generally avoid wvw i believe perma- stealth is enhanced by the terrain and the long distances in wvw and its also the food and the gear stat contribution that allows kills to be performed so quickly. I really dont think this change wil even have an impact in wvw especially since its single target and the added benefit is situational. Those who didnt use it before patch wont be using it long after the patch. And i read on the ranger forums that alot of peep think the skill is still not worth picking.

However this change might end up being a hard counter in tpvp. Fighting necro ranger warrior 70% of the time nowdays and its already fustrating enough. Im against this being added in tpvp as well.

I called this when they added stealth traps to WvW, and lo and behold, I was right – it was only a matter of time until they started adding more things that specifically target stealth. 1 skill on 1 class doesn’t seem like much, but stealth isn’t all that great as it is – be prepared for more and more abilities that specifically target stealth down the line.

I can’t wait until they gives thieves an ability that completely invalidate an entire trait line on another class. Maybe we’ll get an ability that stops guardians from healing, or applies -100% outgoing condition duration on a target.

Doomdesire.9365:

Dagraan.2854:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Shoe.5821:

I understand that people want to change it, but the question I have is – what is the problem? What needs to be balanced?

essentially, in WvW that permastealth equates to infinite ability to choose engagements and/or to disengage

coupled with the wide availability of stealth

a good thief won’t win every fight but they have no reason to ever die (which, for example, deprives other players of the rewards for winning a fight.)

If you failed to kill a Thief, you failed to win a fight, therefore you don’t deserve a reward.

And why is that a problem? Warriors can disengage and run away faster than a Thief and they don’t even need stealth.

Again, what’s the problem with stealth?

because for a warrior to do that they need to be next to useless in combat, thieves just need a dagger or a shortbow, and they have stealth.
and not to mention ive never seen a warrior do this.

Using an argument for a thief exploiting into a spawn to nerf the utility of thief doesn’t make sense. It’s a glitch and you should report him. There’s a spawnwall which is supposed to block people from getting inside, whether he used some sort of teleport(not exclusive to the thief, I may add) to get inside, or not, there’s no grounds for nerfing a complete class because someone decided it would be fun to exploit.

its not that the thief exploited to get into the area its that stealth is so easily abused that he had no worry of dieing from anything including the legendary defenders. even if another class could teleport in the spawn they would just straight up die immediatly.

evilapprentice.6379:

Advent.6193:

1. TBH, hitting an opponent’s Block should de-stealth you. If only because you have physically contacted their body. Who wouldn’t notice being struck?

When you explain to me how the shield you’re holding in your offhand “blocks” a dagger being drilled between your shoulder blades, we’ll talk about block de-stealthing. Until then, lets leave it as it is.

what about when theives spam backstab like they always do and you turn around, and hit the shield? what about just initiating the attack disabling stealth.

Dagraan.2854:

evilapprentice.6379:

Advent.6193:

1. TBH, hitting an opponent’s Block should de-stealth you. If only because you have physically contacted their body. Who wouldn’t notice being struck?

When you explain to me how the shield you’re holding in your offhand “blocks” a dagger being drilled between your shoulder blades, we’ll talk about block de-stealthing. Until then, lets leave it as it is.

spam backstab like they always do

Try again without the hyperbole.

Fun fact – thieves who don’t have a dagger equipped MH are incapable of even using backstab, much less spamming it.

So you drop them at your feet – how does a thief simultaneously avoid these AoE’s and get close to you to actually do damage? Oh wait, they don’t – that’s why when a thief stealths around me, I drop AoE at my feet and watch them come out of stealth with less HP then they went in with (and poison, and weakness) .

This counters bad play, not thieves. It doesn’t matter what class they are if they kitten into strong, clearly marked AOEs. No conceivable change to stealth or thieves would affect this.

If you failed to kill a Thief, you failed to win a fight, therefore you don’t deserve a reward.

if the other guy (the thief in this example) reaches the conclusion that he can’t win the fight and runs away, you won the fight. you just don’t get rewards if you don’t kill them.

re: other posters, I agree that warriors are too good at running away too. Most of their mobility skills probably need a Ride-the-Lightning like mechanic where cooldowns are double if they do not hit something.

But most classes in the game have limited ability to escape, and only the thief can actively pick and choose what they want to fight. As opposed to everyone else, who needs

Hey, I know how to fix this. Give every class a stealth counter. Then give thieves an every class counter.

Hit a warrior? He’s naked now. Hah. Poke a mesmer? Their clones exlpode, doing damage to them instead of you. Slapped a guardian? He can’t block or heal. Tapped a ranger on the shoulder? Their pet kills them. Those pesky necros? Entering DS makes them instantly go downed, that’ll learn em. What about engineers? How about all their skills backfire, killing them? Elementalists? Random attunement swap every 2 seconds! Oh, and make it interrupt casting. Because why not. See an enemy thief? Ha, you can’t attack him because we’re all friends here.

I can’t wait till we get some <insert class and mechanic>counterplay here. Because apparently that means taking a big, steamy dump on whatever is central to each class.

Shoe.5821:

re: other posters, I agree that warriors are too good at running away too. Most of their mobility skills probably need a Ride-the-Lightning like mechanic where cooldowns are double if they do not hit something.

But most classes in the game have limited ability to escape, and only the thief can actively pick and choose what they want to fight. As opposed to everyone else, who needs

Warrior can escape like you said elementalist and mesmer as well necro has spectral walk and guardian might not have mobility to get out of combat but they r guardians and engineer has the elixir that makes him immune to dmg. I dont agree that other most other classes have a limited ability to escape. And Anet opted thief to be this slippery and already nerfed the burst quite considerably to compensate for that.

hey. im a rank 40 thief in spvp and i can tell you that your argument has flaws.
1. A burst build (which is what almost every d/p and d/d thief uses) really does not usually have enough stealth to get away from a fight.

2. In pvp when a thief stealths it is basically a 4v5 in the other teams favor for the stealth duration.

3. If you win a fight on point versus a thief and he stealths away. YOU WON BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE POINT.

as far as WvW goes i dont know but a perma stealth thief will not do much harm to u unless you are full glass. Even if you are just damage him when he reveals himself and when he stealthes then run. This is part of the L2P aspect. If he runs perma stealth just pressure him and ignore him cuz he wont do much damage. I understand how you want your rewards but thats just the way the mechanics are in that aspects. In teamfights perma stealth thieves are close to useless.

evilapprentice.6379:

Advent.6193:

1. TBH, hitting an opponent’s Block should de-stealth you. If only because you have physically contacted their body. Who wouldn’t notice being struck?

When you explain to me how the shield you’re holding in your offhand “blocks” a dagger being drilled between your shoulder blades, we’ll talk about block de-stealthing. Until then, lets leave it as it is.

A fair counter, that one. However, not every “Block” is specifically linked to a Shield … and yes, that is another concern to have in mind. Some Blocks are “paranormal” in their initiation (Aegis on Guard/Mesmer, for example). Others are just Shield-in-right-place-at-right time. This would make balancing Sneak-vs-Block rather troublesome.

Another funny bit, is I put the original post on this subject up … few hours later, we get the leak of the (potential) “Sic ’Em” change-up. My only opinion on that, is that it could be a balanced factor if that trick requires that the Shout-altered attack connects. I don’t think that if it became a guaranteed auto-drop on Stealth, that that would even remotely qualify as fair or workable. Guess we gotta see exactly how that one pans out.

Demonts.4593:

hey. im a rank 40 thief in spvp and i can tell you that your argument has flaws.
1. A burst build (which is what almost every d/p and d/d thief uses) really does not usually have enough stealth to get away from a fight.

2. In pvp when a thief stealths it is basically a 4v5 in the other teams favor for the stealth duration.

3. If you win a fight on point versus a thief and he stealths away. YOU WON BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE POINT.

as far as WvW goes i dont know but a perma stealth thief will not do much harm to u unless you are full glass. Even if you are just damage him when he reveals himself and when he stealthes then run. This is part of the L2P aspect. If he runs perma stealth just pressure him and ignore him cuz he wont do much damage. I understand how you want your rewards but thats just the way the mechanics are in that aspects. In teamfights perma stealth thieves are close to useless.

I used to play spvp (R30) and let me tell you how these arguments do not apply to WvW. I’m assuming a backstab build.

1. First off, i can tell you from firsthand experience that backstab thieves have more than enough stealth to run from a fight.

2. The thief’s job isn’t to stay in the fight, it’s to burst opponents quickly and finish them. He’s just a glass cannon that you can’t kill because of stealth.

3. There are no points in WvW fights, unless you count keeps/towers but those are zergs and thieves are irrelevant in that scenario. In a open world fight, I’m only there as a thief to kill you. Me stealthing does not inhibit my ability to kill you, nor do i lose a point for my server by doing so. I will permastealth when i deem it necessary in the fight.

Since you seem to only play spvp and wvw, you need to understand that thieves do far more damage in wvw with backstab builds than they do in spvp. You can see what i run in my sig. I still hit 7k backstabs on 3k armor. That’s not low damage. I’m not full glass either.

You’re just used to thieves relatively low damage in spvp even with full glass. In wvw, thieves don’t need to go full glass to do good damage.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

If you failed to kill a Thief, you failed to win a fight, therefore you don’t deserve a reward.

And why is that a problem? Warriors can disengage and run away faster than a Thief and they don’t even need stealth.

Again, what’s the problem with stealth?

Umm, no. Thieves can stealth + run (shadowstep if you want) in any direction they want. Many attacks are unusable against a stealthed thief, and many more are very difficult to use against the thief.

Those problems do not apply to warriors running away. In fact, they can still be CC’d. Many CC options against thieves, even if they land, aren’t as effective because you dont know if they land (dodge in stealth), and usually don’t even know the thief’s exact location.

I’ve always thought stealth in this game was very strange.

I’m a huge assassin type class fan and played one in every MMO I’ve ever played. At first I thought that the idea for stealth in this game was pretty cool. You cannot stay in stealth forever, but you cannot be knocked out of stealth, and you can get back into stealth easily. Very different from other MMOs where generally you can be in stealth as long as you want. But getting back into stealth is rough, you have a movement speed base slower than opponents, and any damage taken or action pulls you out of stealth. A Balance that makes fighting stealth still a pain but possible.

But that isn’t how it turned out to work in GW2… Right now thieves cannot be knocked out of stealth, can use abilities in stealth, can regain stealth easily and at a moments notice, can be in stealth forever and have access to the best combat mobility while in stealth. GW2 stealth on thieves is hands down the most powerful stealth mechanic most players have encountered in an MMO.

I still have no Idea how to deal with it. and having a thief I know there is no way to deal with it. People spamming skills way over there to find me when I’m way over here. When a thief attacks me and runs away I just go about my business. perhaps leave the area because I’m just going to get trolled to death and I know it.

Does stealth need to be fixed? Well if you want any meaningful WvW/PvP buffs to thieves then yes.

Well as we can see from the Oct15th preview post, this is a moot point. Anti-stealth is being introduced on the Ranger and if it works well enough, they’ll broaden it to other classes.

They do recognize that there is a stealth problem guys. They’re fixing it in a slow, controlled way…but there is definitely, without a doubt, a stealth problem.

evilapprentice.6379:

Advent.6193:

1. TBH, hitting an opponent’s Block should de-stealth you. If only because you have physically contacted their body. Who wouldn’t notice being struck?

When you explain to me how the shield you’re holding in your offhand “blocks” a dagger being drilled between your shoulder blades, we’ll talk about block de-stealthing. Until then, lets leave it as it is.

That’s about the stupidest comment ever. How are you invisible right in front of me? Oh yeah, its FAKE.

Get a grip man…

Its like you’re saying playing an FPS makes you a good shot IRL. Sorry, no.

Redscope.6215:

Well as we can see from the Oct15th preview post, this is a moot point. Anti-stealth is being introduced on the Ranger and if it works well enough, they’ll broaden it to other classes.

They do recognize that there is a stealth problem guys. They’re fixing it in a slow, controlled way…but there is definitely, without a doubt, a stealth problem.

Its a player problem. Players are too stubborn and spoiled to move anywhere beyond plain kittening. Yeah you guys might have anti-stealth options but thieves will still kill you with stealth.

One of these days, after thieves get nerfed and countered into ridiculous depths the only people playing thieves will be good players and they will STILL kill the same scrubs who were kittening the entire time because… you know…

they suck.

Redscope.6215:

That’s about the stupidest comment ever.

Nice generalization!We should ban him from the forums since using logic in arguments is soooo last millennium, and you didn’t even bother to answer his question.

Redscope.6215:

How are you invisible right in front of me? Oh yeah, its FAKE.

Same can be said ’bout blocking, lets just call it magic.

Redscope.6215:

Its like you’re saying playing an FPS makes you a good shot IRL. Sorry, no.

Hey Sniper Elite V2 helped me tons when i joined military!

On more serious note, how are they planning to counter balance stealth counters?Backstab doesn’t require positioning anymore?We get heavy armor?Its all sunshine and rainbows till you destroy one of few viable builds.

Oh come on, thief invisibility is way more fako nonsense than blocking. It’s pointless anyway, it’s an arbitrary RPG simulation. Thief stealth isn’t suppose to represent a cloaking device any more than a blocking Warrior represents just holding your shield up.

Lokki.1092:

I’ve always thought stealth in this game was very strange.

I’m a huge assassin type class fan and played one in every MMO I’ve ever played. At first I thought that the idea for stealth in this game was pretty cool. You cannot stay in stealth forever, but you cannot be knocked out of stealth, and you can get back into stealth easily. Very different from other MMOs where generally you can be in stealth as long as you want. But getting back into stealth is rough, you have a movement speed base slower than opponents, and any damage taken or action pulls you out of stealth. A Balance that makes fighting stealth still a pain but possible.

But that isn’t how it turned out to work in GW2… Right now thieves cannot be knocked out of stealth, can use abilities in stealth, can regain stealth easily and at a moments notice, can be in stealth forever and have access to the best combat mobility while in stealth. GW2 stealth on thieves is hands down the most powerful stealth mechanic most players have encountered in an MMO.

I still have no Idea how to deal with it. and having a thief I know there is no way to deal with it. People spamming skills way over there to find me when I’m way over here. When a thief attacks me and runs away I just go about my business. perhaps leave the area because I’m just going to get trolled to death and I know it.

Does stealth need to be fixed? Well if you want any meaningful WvW/PvP buffs to thieves then yes.

Except that permanent stealth requires a specific build and can be countered by any class with the least amount of preparation.

Guess you didn’t played thief enough.

Oh and hell, players are already getting used to stealth.
It isn’t uncommon to find players attacking you on stealth or rolling C&D on sigh.

For the Rangers. Its only one damm Pet skill with somewhat high cooldown. I wouldn’t be worried about it. Guess its just “our time” to L2P agains’t something.

That’s all.

SoulSin.5682:

Except that permanent stealth requires a specific build and can be countered by any class with the least amount of preparation.

Guess you didn’t played thief enough.

What are you getting countered by? I’ve never been countered by anything except 20 to 1 outnumbering.

Things get bad. I poof.
_
Edit

I’m not saying that thieves are unstoppable. What I’m saying is stealth in this game is more powerful than I’ve ever seen. Right now. No one can stop me from stealthing whenever I want and getting away.

Redscope.6215:

evilapprentice.6379:

Advent.6193:

1. TBH, hitting an opponent’s Block should de-stealth you. If only because you have physically contacted their body. Who wouldn’t notice being struck?

When you explain to me how the shield you’re holding in your offhand “blocks” a dagger being drilled between your shoulder blades, we’ll talk about block de-stealthing. Until then, lets leave it as it is.

That’s about the stupidest comment ever. How are you invisible right in front of me? Oh yeah, its FAKE.

Get a grip man…

Its like you’re saying playing an FPS makes you a good shot IRL. Sorry, no.

I’m using the exact same logic the original poster is – he feels that block should de-stealth you because logically, your character can “feel” an attack bouncing off their shield. My argument follows the same rules. It’s silly, but the point was to point out the logical inconsistency.

Lokki.1092:

What are you getting countered by? I’ve never been countered by anything except 20 to 1 outnumbering.

Things get bad. I poof.
_
Edit

I’m not saying that thieves are unstoppable. What I’m saying is stealth in this game is more powerful than I’ve ever seen. Right now. No one can stop me from stealthing whenever I want and getting away.

This is exactly why it needs direct counters, yes. But naturally the kiddies who use it as a crutch don’t want to see their ridiculously empowering mechanic brought in line where it should be.

Put a 10s cooldown on backstab. just like every other hard hitting skill. QQ done, move along now.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Put a 10s cooldown on backstab. just like every other hard hitting skill. QQ done, move along now.

What is going to stop the scrubs from sucking?

Volrath.1473:

Good luck on finding thieves!

You deserver my Greatest Honor

Thank You!

SoulSin.5682:

Lokki.1092:

I’ve always thought stealth in this game was very strange.

I’m a huge assassin type class fan and played one in every MMO I’ve ever played. At first I thought that the idea for stealth in this game was pretty cool. You cannot stay in stealth forever, but you cannot be knocked out of stealth, and you can get back into stealth easily. Very different from other MMOs where generally you can be in stealth as long as you want. But getting back into stealth is rough, you have a movement speed base slower than opponents, and any damage taken or action pulls you out of stealth. A Balance that makes fighting stealth still a pain but possible.

But that isn’t how it turned out to work in GW2… Right now thieves cannot be knocked out of stealth, can use abilities in stealth, can regain stealth easily and at a moments notice, can be in stealth forever and have access to the best combat mobility while in stealth. GW2 stealth on thieves is hands down the most powerful stealth mechanic most players have encountered in an MMO.

I still have no Idea how to deal with it. and having a thief I know there is no way to deal with it. People spamming skills way over there to find me when I’m way over here. When a thief attacks me and runs away I just go about my business. perhaps leave the area because I’m just going to get trolled to death and I know it.

Does stealth need to be fixed? Well if you want any meaningful WvW/PvP buffs to thieves then yes.

Except that permanent stealth requires a specific build and can be countered by any class with the least amount of preparation.

Guess you didn’t played thief enough.

Oh and hell, players are already getting used to stealth.
It isn’t uncommon to find players attacking you on stealth or rolling C&D on sigh.

For the Rangers. Its only one damm Pet skill with somewhat high cooldown. I wouldn’t be worried about it. Guess its just “our time” to L2P agains’t something.

That’s all.

I’d be fine with counters to stealth (I wouldn’t think they’re necessary, because stealth is quite easy to outplay, but it wouldn’t be unfair), if we didn’t have an entire trait line dedicated to “in stealth” effects. Countering a mechanic is fine, countering an entire trait line isn’t. I’m not saying that Sic Em is going to make thief unplayable, but it’s just following the extremely poor precedent set by the WvW anti-stealth trap – it can completely nullify up to 30 trait points for x amount of time, with no active counter once you’ve been hit by it. No other skill in the game has that kind of raw power.

Conditions can be cleansed, stuns can be broken, big damage skills can be evaded or mitigated with protection/weakness/blind/block/invuln, etc etc etc – once you’re hit with revealed outside the normal parameters (landing an attack while stealthed), there’s no counter. It will completely nullify every minor trait, and most likely every major trait (because all of the “must have” SA traits are based around stealth) in SA for X amount of time, and that’s just silly.

Bunkers wouldn’t like it if any class got a “heals have no effect for X seconds” skill, Condition spec’s wouldn’t like it if any class got a “-100% outgoing condition duration” skill, burst specs wouldn’t like it if any class got a “0% outgoing crit chance” skill, but it’s completely fine to potentially invalidate 30 points worth of traits for thief, in addition to any thief’s access to Stealth attacks regardless of spec?

Burnfall you sure took your time to show up. I was reading this thread and was wondering “where the heck is this guy”. Your slacking mate.

Any way back to the topic, stealth is currently only a issue in WvW. However sPvP thieves are once again going to pay the price.

It doesn’t matter rangers are getting this in WvW, if you think that simply popping sic em will kill a thief you’re dead wrong. If you don’t understand the basics of stealth and the common thief combos you will still die.

A Insta-gib cheese backstab build will kill you before you can pop it and any other thief will just dis-engage when they get the revealed buff. Don’t think that thief without stealth has no mobility, they will still outrun you. The only thieves that are affected are the ones who are bad and don’t pay attention (maybe P/D) and once they are weeded out you’ll be stuck with better players and new thief builds (s/d, s/p, d/d) that don’t rely on stealth but will kill you just the same, if you don’t understand the fundamentals of the class.

You’d think folk would be more afraid of the Evasion builds. Heck, any good Thief running those, will kill a fool while visible

Caom.9251:

Burnfall you sure took your time to show up. I was reading this thread and was wondering “where the heck is this guy”. Your slacking mate.

Any way back to the topic, stealth is currently only a issue in WvW. However sPvP thieves are once again going to pay the price.

It doesn’t matter rangers are getting this in WvW, if you think that simply popping sic em will kill a thief you’re dead wrong. If you don’t understand the basics of stealth and the common thief combos you will still die.

A Insta-gib cheese backstab build will kill you before you can pop it and any other thief will just dis-engage when they get the revealed buff. Don’t think that thief without stealth has no mobility, they will still outrun you. The only thieves that are affected are the ones who are bad and don’t pay attention (maybe P/D) and once they are weeded out you’ll be stuck with better players and new thief builds (s/d, s/p, d/d) that don’t rely on stealth but will kill you just the same, if you don’t understand the fundamentals of the class.

Hi Caom.

I had promised myself from ever posting in the thief forum but unfortunately, the resistance was too strong, so i made a huge comback by posting in the thief forums.

You said it 100% correct, the thief stealth reveal will not stop you from 1-4 death stabbing me.

That’s the fear i have.

In other word, we rangers are still dead on arrival to the thieves.

evilapprentice.6379:

Condition spec’s wouldn’t like it if any class got a “-100% outgoing condition duration” skill, burst specs wouldn’t like it if any class got a “0% outgoing crit chance” skill, but it’s completely fine to potentially invalidate 30 points worth of traits for thief, in addition to any thief’s access to Stealth attacks regardless of spec?

Warriors already have a -100% condition duration kind of skill. Along with crazy uptime on stability. It becomes a hard counter to too many skills.

Conditions had their time, but now warriors have some I-win skills against conditions and cc.

I’m just afraid that stealth will be balanced in the same unthoughtful manner, making it super effective against all players except those who take the anti-stealth skills, and instant-lose against those who take the anti-stealth skills. Just like what conditions and cc have slowly, but surely, turned out to be.