In that case when do we PvE thieves get our 3s revealed debuff back?
Maybe so. We’re debating it.
THANK YOU! I’ll have to e-hug you if that happens. I’ll actually get to enjoy playing my thief in pve again I loved the smoothness of the class before and now we might be getting it back!
A couple things:
For PvE/PvP/WvW, we know that those are 3 different playstyles, we don’t just lump PvE and WvW together.
For those afraid of drastic differences between the game types – we’re not doing this. We’re mostly just splitting #’s (damage, healing, recharge, durations, etc.). Our old philosophy holds – once you learn a class in one area of the game, that knowledge should transfer to other areas of the game.
I don’t understand why the Revealed buff exists at all in PvE. I also don’t understand why Stealth doesn’t drop aggro and why Smoke Bomb is useless to the point of being laughable.
Stealth is really the only ability in the game that needs to have different rules in PvE and PvP.
I die over and over again because “stealth no longer clears the agro table” makes the DOWNED stealth skills COMPLETELY WORTHLESS. It’s worse than having no button for it all all, because staring at it thinking it’ll do something if only you could get it off is false hope that distracted you from the 25% fewer tools you actually have. This is a true for Mesmers as it is for Thieves.
Stealthing while downed needs to be reverted.
“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.
I die over and over again because “stealth no longer clears the agro table” makes the DOWNED stealth skills COMPLETELY WORTHLESS. It’s worse than having no button for it all all, because staring at it thinking it’ll do something if only you could get it off is false hope that distracted you from the 25% fewer tools you actually have. This is a true for Mesmers as it is for Thieves.
Stealthing while downed needs to be reverted.
No you can’t, clearly. That’s why you’re getting downed.
| Fort Aspenwood (NA): Sylvari Daredevil Thief Main: All Classes 80. | Please Remove/Fix Thief Trait: “Last Refuge.” “Hard to Catch” is a Horrible and Useless Trait. Fixed 6/23/15. Praise Dwayna.
I hope they get it back to 3 (in all enviroments, WvW shares the changes with PvE anyway) and do what they originally intended: trigger reveal on stealth end always to stop perma stealthers keeping it to keep healing and curing conditions, which was the original problem.
The 4 seconds affects most combos and that’s bad in all enviroments. 3 seconds was perfect for correct timing and dynamism in all sets.
I die over and over again because “stealth no longer clears the agro table” makes the DOWNED stealth skills COMPLETELY WORTHLESS. It’s worse than having no button for it all all, because staring at it thinking it’ll do something if only you could get it off is false hope that distracted you from the 25% fewer tools you actually have. This is a true for Mesmers as it is for Thieves.
Stealthing while downed needs to be reverted.
it is bad in most situations but just realize that going stealth while downed wasn’t intended to reset all agro and act as a “get out of jail free card”, it was meant to proc your downed dagger (maybe 2 of them if the guy is at ranged) so you could rally easier. That invis dagger hits like a truck! Also with the right traits, if you’re having a downed war with someone, pop invis and clear those damaging conditions, throw 2 heavy hitting daggers at the other guy, then blink out of range and laugh as you are able to res significantly faster than the other guy.
Sadly this trick doesn’t work well on eles (obvious), other thieves, and warrior b/c they’ll pop over and try to kill you. Another major drawback is that guardians and rangers will still be able to out heal you with their 3, at least the guard won’t be able to press 4 so it’ll still be a very close race.
Oh and if you’re not downed, then the downed state will never be a problem for you
I don’t understand why the Revealed buff exists at all in PvE. I also don’t understand why Stealth doesn’t drop aggro and why Smoke Bomb is useless to the point of being laughable.
Stealth is really the only ability in the game that needs to have different rules in PvE and PvP.
No revealed in PvE:
Skill all the initiative gain stuff: 2 initiative on stealth, 2 initiative every 10 sec, infiltrators signet, faster init reg in stealth, …
Stand behind a creep… CnD->CnD->CnD->CnD->CnD->CnD->… You could probably get up to 20 vuln stacks permanently while beint invis all the time just mashing the crap out of that 5 key.
Stealth not dropping aggro:
A design question. Ever played Skyrim/Oblivion? Sneak+Bow: PING opponent with an arrow in the chest: “who is there?” running around a bit… “Probably nothing.” PING “who is there?”
Smoke Bomb:
We are in the thief forum, not in the Engineer forum.
If Smoke Screen: Which part is useless? You can block projectiles just fine. If you only farm dragon events, you may find it laughable, but it has its moments…
If Blinding Powder: It’s an instant invisibility, much like the mesmer’s decoy. And it is friggin AoE.
If Black Powder shot: Do we play the same game?
The only crime, turrets committed, is being good against the celestial meta.
The mob has spoken and the turrets shall be burnt at the stake.
Smoke Bomb:
We are in the thief forum, not in the Engineer forum.
If Smoke Screen: Which part is useless? You can block projectiles just fine. If you only farm dragon events, you may find it laughable, but it has its moments…
If Blinding Powder: It’s an instant invisibility, much like the mesmer’s decoy. And it is friggin AoE.
If Black Powder shot: Do we play the same game?
Back when stealth dropped aggro, this skill was very handy for surviving both in solo and in groups (Since you’d stop getting hit and could revive yourself with uninterrupted #4)
Now that stealth doesn’t drop aggro, all it does is delay your death by 1 second and allow you to use the stealth version of #1 which is rather limited in it’s usefulness.
“Pull the trigger, move out ahead,
There’s two kinds of people… The quick and the dead”
A couple things:
For PvE/PvP/WvW, we know that those are 3 different playstyles, we don’t just lump PvE and WvW together.
For those afraid of drastic differences between the game types – we’re not doing this. We’re mostly just splitting #’s (damage, healing, recharge, durations, etc.). Our old philosophy holds – once you learn a class in one area of the game, that knowledge should transfer to other areas of the game.
loving this guy
Sure … like 3 and 4 s of revealed isnt big difference… I mean if we will have 3s in pve and 4s in www/pvp this will be kittened up… Those 3 seconds were so carved up into my brain im still having issues with 4s time to time, but now if they will be mixed up… NOT THE GREATEST IDEA !
it is bad in most situations but just realize that going stealth while downed wasn’t intended to reset all agro and act as a “get out of jail free card”, it was meant to proc your downed dagger (maybe 2 of them if the guy is at ranged) so you could rally easier. That invis dagger hits like a truck! Also with the right traits, if you’re having a downed war with someone, pop invis and clear those damaging conditions, throw 2 heavy hitting daggers at the other guy, then blink out of range and laugh as you are able to res significantly faster than the other guy.
Oh and if you’re not downed, then the downed state will never be a problem for you
Yeah the only class that is supposed to get a get-out-of-jail-free cards is warrior obviously.
And the time it takes before you can finally use smoke bomb is far too long to make it even remotely useful. By the time you can finally use it you’re basically dead.
And yes, let’s pretend you never go down while leveling and playing solo. You just cleared a veteran or champion solo along with 10 random mobs and you die to some mob that spawned afterwards cause the respawn rate in this game is kitten #8230; gg. Fun gameplay!
In that case when do we PvE thieves get our 3s revealed debuff back?
Maybe so. We’re debating it.
THANK YOU! I’ll have to e-hug you if that happens. I’ll actually get to enjoy playing my thief in pve again I loved the smoothness of the class before and now we might be getting it back!
I still wouldn’t get any hopes up until it actually makes it into the game… they’ve sort of shown how things can change on a whim from something they are “thinking about/debating” to what actually gets in game.
I personally would love if they reverted back to how going invis/stealth worked with mobs, I do think it should reset the mobs agro so it would make it more feasible to escape combat or get up from our downed state, not to mention that’s how stealth should be, it should allow you to move in and out of combat, and allow you to escape mobs agro so that you can successfully move about, lol…
I personally would love if they reverted back to how going invis/stealth worked with mobs, I do think it should reset the mobs agro so it would make it more feasible to escape combat or get up from our downed state, not to mention that’s how stealth should be, it should allow you to move in and out of combat, and allow you to escape mobs agro so that you can successfully move about, lol…
It is called stealth, not “memory erasure” or “mind control”. You only get out of their sight, doesn’t mean, they suddenly forget about everything which just happened. We’ve had enough of such poor stealth implementation in Oblivion and Skyrim.
The only crime, turrets committed, is being good against the celestial meta.
The mob has spoken and the turrets shall be burnt at the stake.
My thoughts from a purely PVE/dungeon perspective: love how mobs react to the “new” stealth, hate the 4s revealed nerf.
It used to be that when we got aggro, we could stealth and instantly the mob would turn to another group member and charge him. That’s good for the thief but pretty bad for everyone else as we’d just dump aggro on others. Now the mob keep the thief targeted, but just stands there confused. We keep aggro without getting hit and that’s awesome.
As for the revealed nerf, yeah, Anet completely botched this one. It doesn’t even make sense. Hear me out: It’s understood that the nerf came because of PVP and WVW. Now go ahead and play PVP/WVW and tell me if you’re able to land a Cloak & Dag + Backstab every 3s. It’s almost impossible as targets are moving way too much and way too fast. So the nerf that was intended for PVP/WVW does not actually affect this game mode because chances are you can’t land this combo faster then every 4s anyway! So it only hurts PVE where mobs are more or less static… and thieves were not OP in PVE to begin with so whats the point???
Also it really hurts the whole Shadow Arts tree where the thief gets all his buffs (might, regen, condition removal, initiative) from stealthing. They wanted to tone down backstab damage through it’s frequency but killed all the other goodies that come with stealthing.
In that case when do we PvE thieves get our 3s revealed debuff back?
Maybe so. We’re debating it.
THANK YOU! I’ll have to e-hug you if that happens. I’ll actually get to enjoy playing my thief in pve again I loved the smoothness of the class before and now we might be getting it back!
I’d love to see the details of this debate since I’d like to know what is the current road block.
IMO, we should have gotten a Surprise Attack buff when attacking from stealth that gives quickness for 3s instead and keep Revealed debuff in PvP when the Thief is revealed out of stealth when they get hit multiple times while in stealth (i.e. AoE damage).
But to be honest, I’d rather see a quality of life improvements for Theives like Pistol skills, Shadow Step, most dual weapons skills, etc. while they are debating stealth.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
The problem is that they have no plans to revert it in PvP for whatever reason, and they don’t know if they want to split it because having different timing between PvE and PvP would be stupidly jarring and hard to deal with.
When I see “we’re debating it”, I think back to the answer to every other pressing question, “it’s definitely something we’re talking about.” Namely, I’m not getting my hopes up for a reversal just yet.
It is called stealth, not “memory erasure” or “mind control”. You only get out of their sight, doesn’t mean, they suddenly forget about everything which just happened. We’ve had enough of such poor stealth implementation in Oblivion and Skyrim.
Haha, are you really suggesting that skyrim’s PvE stealth system isn’t a thousand times better than this joke arenanet made of it now?
It is called stealth, not “memory erasure” or “mind control”. You only get out of their sight, doesn’t mean, they suddenly forget about everything which just happened. We’ve had enough of such poor stealth implementation in Oblivion and Skyrim.
Haha, are you really suggesting that skyrim’s PvE stealth system isn’t a thousand times better than this joke arenanet made of it now?
i love skyrim but the stealth in that game was a joke. As is, the stealth in this game is 100x better. Not easier to exploit, just better
It is called stealth, not “memory erasure” or “mind control”. You only get out of their sight, doesn’t mean, they suddenly forget about everything which just happened. We’ve had enough of such poor stealth implementation in Oblivion and Skyrim.
Haha, are you really suggesting that skyrim’s PvE stealth system isn’t a thousand times better than this joke arenanet made of it now?
Wait, what was that? Someone just took a shot at GW2’s stealth system! Fan out and search for him!
…
…
Nah.. Must’ve been the wind.
:D
Edit: Tbh, both systems suck for their own reasons. But both systems were designed with different premises: Skyrim’s system only works on NPCs, while GW2’s system works on both NPCs and PCs.
A couple things:
For PvE/PvP/WvW, we know that those are 3 different playstyles, we don’t just lump PvE and WvW together.
For those afraid of drastic differences between the game types – we’re not doing this. We’re mostly just splitting #’s (damage, healing, recharge, durations, etc.). Our old philosophy holds – once you learn a class in one area of the game, that knowledge should transfer to other areas of the game.
loving this guy
Sure … like 3 and 4 s of revealed isnt big difference… I mean if we will have 3s in pve and 4s in www/pvp this will be kittened up… Those 3 seconds were so carved up into my brain im still having issues with 4s time to time, but now if they will be mixed up… NOT THE GREATEST IDEA !
It’s actually a huge difference. When I first played my thief after the change it felt clunky and unnatural. It had nothing to do with it being ‘different’ either, the playstyle had no natural flow. And, no amount of retraining muscle memory will replace a flowing playstyle now gone.
If the possibly good news becomes actual good news I will be very happy.
A couple things:
For PvE/PvP/WvW, we know that those are 3 different playstyles, we don’t just lump PvE and WvW together.
For those afraid of drastic differences between the game types – we’re not doing this. We’re mostly just splitting #’s (damage, healing, recharge, durations, etc.). Our old philosophy holds – once you learn a class in one area of the game, that knowledge should transfer to other areas of the game.
loving this guy
Sure … like 3 and 4 s of revealed isnt big difference… I mean if we will have 3s in pve and 4s in www/pvp this will be kittened up… Those 3 seconds were so carved up into my brain im still having issues with 4s time to time, but now if they will be mixed up… NOT THE GREATEST IDEA !
It’s actually a huge difference. When I first played my thief after the change it felt clunky and unnatural. It had nothing to do with it being ‘different’ either, the playstyle had no natural flow. And, no amount of retraining muscle memory will replace a flowing playstyle now gone.
If the possibly good news becomes actual good news I will be very happy.
Well if you dont mix pve with pvp then yea … but if you do it will mess you up pretty bad… i know it would mess me up…
For PvE/PvP/WvW, we know that those are 3 different playstyles, we don’t just lump PvE and WvW together.
Considering WvW and PVE use the same skill values, yes you do.
We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.
But we want them to be things that keep consistency across the game types as much as possible.
If what I think you’re saying is true then sir, you have a e-hug coming your way
Surprisingly enough that they’re just realizing this given the HUGE outcry in GW1 when they were nerfing skills left and right to balance PvP while ignoring the quality of life in PvE.
Whether they acknowledge it or not, WvWvW is PvP, thus needs to be addressed as such.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
I am not Surprised by this Grandeurious news at all. Why you ask?
Why not?
As long your an Elitist Profession, “the sky is the limit”
To the lesser professions, “no need to apply”.
I loved the smoothness of the class before and now we might be getting it back!