Guild Wars 2

All the baddies d/p will now quit, thus making less QQ on thief! So be happy about it!

We will still have too many evades. The reasoning behind nerfing vigor literally said (paraphrasing) “thief is dodging too much.” This change won’t affect that.

WE ARE THIEVES!!!!

Will will stab/shoot terror into out enemies no matter the build!! we will live on!

We still have short bow #3 for when the going gets tough and need a dodge

Buzzcrave.6197:

All the baddies d/p will now quit, thus making less QQ on thief! So be happy about it!

Huh? Do you even play thief? The change will have little impact in tPvP since permastealth isn’t a competitive spec.

In WvW, people will just switch over to more dps builds which will end up causing more QQ.

Maugetarr.6823:

We will still have too many evades. The reasoning behind nerfing vigor literally said (paraphrasing) “thief is dodging too much.” This change won’t affect that.

And it’s very sad imo. Thief was meant to be the most evasive class if built for it.
If the patch won’t be changed, guardians, mesmers and eles will be able to dodge more than the thief, even with feline grace.

I just don’t get this logic. Guardian, a very tanky class will be able to get more vigor than thief, a very squishy class. Seems legit, doesn’kitten

If they feel the “spamable” weapon evades are over the top, then why don’t they change them?
As it seems, the vigor nerf is because of the S/D thief dodging too much, but there are other weaponsets, too.

Um dp will still be our most powerful spec after patch and most players that do tpvp dont go heavy in the sa line if any at all. The cast time on swords is the biggest issue as will basically make sd and sp useless.

Funny thing is all the qq on thief is because the abuse of permastealth d/p in WvW, so you sPvP players that keep on saying d/p is still good in sPvP can shut your pile hole, because no one give a kitten.

Buzzcrave.6197:

Funny thing is all the qq on thief is because the abuse of permastealth d/p in WvW, so you sPvP players that keep on saying d/p is still good in sPvP can shut your pile hole, because no one give a kitten.

Hmm I’m not sure anyone said that intact it’s probably quite the opposite. D/p permalink stealth was a wvw thing and I for one am happy it’s gone.

Buzzcrave.6197:

Funny thing is all the qq on thief is because the abuse of permastealth d/p in WvW, so you sPvP players that keep on saying d/p is still good in sPvP can shut your pile hole, because no one give a kitten.

Actually, whether you like it or not, those of us who play the stat-balanced game mode where skill takes priority over gear (-COUGH-) care, so don’t go telling people what they can and can’t post. The fact is that in WvW D/P will still be one of our best weapon sets, regardless of whether or not pseudo-permastealth is possible or not.

Guardians, Mesmers and Eles still being able to access permaVigor for very little investment, and Thief barely getting half uptime when blowing 30 trait points in to 2 lines, is what blows my mind.

I hate to be cliche and I hate to incoherently rant but I’m going to do both.

We were designed to be the shadow assassin archetype that are found in every mmo where permanent stealth exists. Stealth is annoying, its infuriating and it makes players whine and whine and whine until game designers take notice and start making indiscriminate and completely unnecessary nerfs to a mechanic that is directly tied to our survivability and damage mitigations. but no, why stop there, lets even nerf a thieves ability to consecutively dodge the inevitable stun locks and dazes and take away any and every chance they may have had to escape. And what Auesis said is probably the most ludicrious thing about all of this. 3 classes retain their vigor in full. If we can not in some form rely on extended stealths and the ability to have numerous evades, then what does that leave us with?

Our condition removal is hardly on par with every other class and thus I feel forced into at least 5-10 or even 15 points in shadow arts then I feel forced to choose hide in shadows as my heal. I’d much rather be immobilized and crippled than have stacks of bleeding, poison and burning on me.

Arena net, You and your developers may consider the Dagger pistol black powder heart seeker as an exploit of your game and if it is, it is your fault for letting it exist for so long. You kept nerfing everything else so some players found a way to make the class not only viable, but with a complete weapon set of useful skills. but you didnt just nerf this, you nerfed the very thing that makes a thief function…. initiative.

Its like you just decided to punish every build over one weaponset, whats wrong? Stealth traps and sic’em didnt work out the way you wanted them to? Sword dagger didnt need to be touched, assassins reward and hard to catch are a joke but you gave me a 1second immobilize on a skill i never use, then made it cost 4 initiative. “gg”

/incoherent rant off.

Incurafy.6329:

^ This. In a world where you can potentially get 14k backstabs with a health pool of 20k just through the gear and consumables you bring, there is no reason why anyone should be complaining. These changes just mean they might have to learn some cross-weapon combos and learn some type of group dynamic.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Incurafy.6329:

^ This. In a world where you can potentially get 14k backstabs, on a naked up-level, while maintaining a health pool of 20k.

Fixed it for you ^

Despite all the negativity from the proposed changes. I’m happy that they finally doing something about D/P thieves. I’ve played the spec and do occasionally switch my offhand to pistol when scouting or trailing a zerg and I can admit that it really needed this nerf.

As for the nerf to vigorous recovery, there’s still bountiful theft you can rely on for a good uptime of vigour but still feel that this nerf is totally unnecessary.

Looking forward to every thief running a D/D setup (or rerolling warriors).

jonwar.4186:

making indiscriminate and completely unnecessary nerfs to a mechanic that is directly tied to our survivability

Tool dedicated to your survivability does not have necessary to be more efficient than the ones for other profession.
You have to understand that perma-evade and perma-stealth are possible providing awaseome defense capability.
The mechanic tied to your class has never been: “being hardest class to down”
With all the DPS you get it must not be the case.

jonwar.4186:

Our condition removal is hardly on par with every other class

Thieves have efficient tools to deal with conditions and are at least far from being the weakest class on this part.

jonwar.4186:

I’d much rather be immobilized and crippled than have stacks of bleeding, poison and burning on me.

So what ? Life is hard ? That is true for all professions you know. Thieves will have a little idea of what can be the life of other classes.

jonwar.4186:

…your developers may consider the Dagger pistol black powder heart seeker as an exploit of your game and if it is, it is your fault for letting it exist for so long

Is it a reason for never fixing it ?
But nevertheless, I am glad to hear now a thief admitting it could be broken.

jonwar.4186:

you nerfed the very thing that makes a thief function…. initiative.

I think this assumption is a little bit exagerated. Initiative regeneration made it possible to have a too much “spammy” and “no minded” profession.
This is in fact a good opportunity to enhance thief gameplay and skill.

jonwar.4186:

you gave me a 1second immobilize on a skill i never use

Time to use it maybe. Again, more decision to take with consequences, less spamm, better game.

Heizero.9183:

^ This. In a world where you can potentially get 14k backstabs, on a naked up-level, while maintaining a health pool of 20k.
Fixed it for you ^

Come on, 14k backstaps are common on full rabid (toughness everywhere) light armors. I have heard also about warrior taking 8k.
It seems that lots of thieves are not aware of the real potential of their professions.

style.6173:

Buzzcrave.6197:

All the baddies d/p will now quit, thus making less QQ on thief! So be happy about it!

Huh? Do you even play thief? The change will have little impact in tPvP since permastealth isn’t a competitive spec.

In WvW, people will just switch over to more dps builds which will end up causing more QQ.

Thief QQ in tPvP is nonexistent if you’ve ever been there. It’s really only WvW, and from the trend I’m seeing more thieves will be converting to condition builds rather than DPS with the changes.

Kicast.1459:

jonwar.4186:

making indiscriminate and completely unnecessary nerfs to a mechanic that is directly tied to our survivability

Tool dedicated to your survivability does not have necessary to be more efficient than the ones for other profession.
You have to understand that perma-evade and perma-stealth are possible providing awaseome defense capability.
The mechanic tied to your class has never been: “being hardest class to down”
With all the DPS you get it must not be the case.

jonwar.4186:

Our condition removal is hardly on par with every other class

Thieves have efficient tools to deal with conditions and are at least far from being the weakest class on this part.

jonwar.4186:

I’d much rather be immobilized and crippled than have stacks of bleeding, poison and burning on me.

So what ? Life is hard ? That is true for all professions you know. Thieves will have a little idea of what can be the life of other classes.

jonwar.4186:

…your developers may consider the Dagger pistol black powder heart seeker as an exploit of your game and if it is, it is your fault for letting it exist for so long

Is it a reason for never fixing it ?
But nevertheless, I am glad to hear now a thief admitting it could be broken.

jonwar.4186:

you nerfed the very thing that makes a thief function…. initiative.

I think this assumption is a little bit exagerated. Initiative regeneration made it possible to have a too much “spammy” and “no minded” profession.
This is in fact a good opportunity to enhance thief gameplay and skill.

jonwar.4186:

you gave me a 1second immobilize on a skill i never use

Time to use it maybe. Again, more decision to take with consequences, less spamm, better game.

Heizero.9183:

^ This. In a world where you can potentially get 14k backstabs, on a naked up-level, while maintaining a health pool of 20k.
Fixed it for you ^

Come on, 14k backstaps are common on full rabid (toughness everywhere) light armors. I have heard also about warrior taking 8k.
It seems that lots of thieves are not aware of the real potential of their professions.

Yes Thieves can POTENTIALLY hit 12-14k on a light armor target if totally geared and traited for it. Meaning full berzerker running a rune set that maximizes crit damage (112% at least) 30 in DA and 30 in crit strikes with executioner on a target below 50% hp. in those situations, I 100% agree. but those situations are few and far between, not enough to call out the whole class about it and especially not able to be done while maintaining an HP pool as high as 20k on a class with the lowest base hp. I am well aware of what Thief is capable of, more than most, so step off of your pedestal.

Practically every thief thread devolves into BS spike damage with “examples” of ridiculously high DPS that no thieves see on a consistent basis. Can we stop now… we have the math and know that 5 figure burst on a typical WvW target is infrequent. In fact, that level of DPS is so rare I almost never see it and on the few occassions it has happened it came from some other class (warrior mostly).

After the patch, when the most thieves have switched classes or play condition thief (D/D or P/D) the QQ about thief conditions will start ^^

“Thief puts so much bleeds on me, i dont now what these red circle with nails mean, but thief is OP OP so nerf condi thief cause i die with my warri!”