Guild Wars 2

Black Powder is one of the most powerful skills a Thief has. I think it’s a notoriously difficult skill to balance since the D/P build relies on it heavily for both stealth and melee mitigation and yet it can be pretty difficult to counter for a number of classes.

A part of that and something that is often ignored, is the Blinding Shot that is fired at the enemy when using Black Powder. This is a single Blind with 900 range with a very subtle animation and very difficult to avoid.

This Blinding Shot makes it very difficult to counter Black Powder since your next attack is going to miss anyhow. If you want to Headshot someone inside a Black Powder you’re going to miss, if a Mesmer wants to blast Illusionary Wave that too will miss. Anything that you might want to use to counter Black Powder will miss initially and is really difficult to account for.

Hence I believe that removing this single, ranged blinding shot is a good way to offer more counter-play opportunities against Black Powder without nerfing the core functionality of the skill, which is excellent mitigation at point-blank range.

Use cleans condition before your other spell. Problem solved.

I agree with this.

Blinding field by itself is already powerful. It doesn’t need a blinding shot.

It costs 6 initiative. Give me a lower cost or another effect if you’re going to take utility away from something that does laughable damage.

Do you realize that sometimes black powder is used just for that single ranged blind , especially with pistol and sword mainhand? For instance, it can interrupt CC from some classes’ downed state at range, or an incomming burst aimed at your teammate, if enemy has stability.Your suggestion would dumb down this class.

And as written above, it costs 6 initiative, which is a lot.

Dagins.5163:

Do you realize that sometimes black powder is used just for that single ranged blind , especially with pistol and sword mainhand? For instance, it can interrupt CC from some classes’ downed state at range, or an incomming burst aimed at your teammate, if enemy has stability.Your suggestion would dumb down this class.

And as written above, it costs 6 initiative, which is a lot.

Apparently they think everybody uses BP for Heartseeker…which I blame on the D/P gank squad. <_<

Let’s remove backstab, elite skills healing and decrease HP pool to 1k only.
I bet 50 bucks that other classes will still cry about thieves.

Terrible idea, no thanks.

Dagins.5163:

Do you realize that sometimes black powder is used just for that single ranged blind , especially with pistol and sword mainhand? For instance, it can interrupt CC from some classes’ downed state at range, or an incomming burst aimed at your teammate, if enemy has stability.Your suggestion would dumb down this class.

And as written above, it costs 6 initiative, which is a lot.

To be fair, I wasn’t thinking about S/P much. But then again you still have Headshot which serves the same purpose as an interrupt.

So the point remains.

Dee Jay.2460:

Dagins.5163:

Do you realize that sometimes black powder is used just for that single ranged blind , especially with pistol and sword mainhand? For instance, it can interrupt CC from some classes’ downed state at range, or an incomming burst aimed at your teammate, if enemy has stability.Your suggestion would dumb down this class.

And as written above, it costs 6 initiative, which is a lot.

To be fair, I wasn’t thinking about S/P much. But then again you still have Headshot which serves the same purpose as an interrupt.

So the point remains.

Daze doesn’t bypass stability. Blind does.

Dee Jay.2460:

Black Powder is one of the most powerful skills a Thief has. I think it’s a notoriously difficult skill to balance since the D/P build relies on it heavily for both stealth and melee mitigation and yet it can be pretty difficult to counter for a number of classes.

A part of that and something that is often ignored, is the Blinding Shot that is fired at the enemy when using Black Powder. This is a single Blind with 900 range with a very subtle animation and very difficult to avoid.

This Blinding Shot makes it very difficult to counter Black Powder since your next attack is going to miss anyhow. If you want to Headshot someone inside a Black Powder you’re going to miss, if a Mesmer wants to blast Illusionary Wave that too will miss. Anything that you might want to use to counter Black Powder will miss initially and is really difficult to account for.

Hence I believe that removing this single, ranged blinding shot is a good way to offer more counter-play opportunities against Black Powder without nerfing the core functionality of the skill, which is excellent mitigation at point-blank range.

^
Yes.

the blind from BPS is what often helps people leap into it (avoid that cc skill they might use). It’s a heavy investment for a skill, and in no way impossible to counter.

The blind from bps is the smallest problem with d/p perma stealth you can think of.

NinjaEd.3946:

the blind from BPS is what often helps people leap into it (avoid that cc skill they might use). It’s a heavy investment for a skill, and in no way impossible to counter.

The blind from bps is the smallest problem with d/p perma stealth you can think of.

One step at a time

Karolis.4261:

NinjaEd.3946:

the blind from BPS is what often helps people leap into it (avoid that cc skill they might use). It’s a heavy investment for a skill, and in no way impossible to counter.

The blind from bps is the smallest problem with d/p perma stealth you can think of.

One step at a time

Well in that case, all cc effects of warrior should be reduced by 50%. All things considering, they have too much of it.

Dee Jay.2460:

To be fair, I wasn’t thinking about S/P much. But then again you still have Headshot which serves the same purpose as an interrupt.

So the point remains.

You can’t interrupt somebody who is in downed state (with exception of launch) and under stability effect. For me, it is very common to blind a downed guardian/warrior/ranger/engineer/necromancer from range, who is being stomped by my teammate to secure the kill; especially when playing p/p, when I can’t close range and put smoke field on top of them.

Black powder and headshot differ a lot in terms on interrupting attacks. A good thief use them alternately, depending on situation. For example, it’s the best to blind an eviscerate, earthshaker or heartseeker, while blinding hundred blades, a stomp or a heal is pointless – where you should use daze instead. There are much more examples, and they can be found against every single class in this game. Yes, your suggestion would dumb down the thief.

obviously the OP dont know the blind mechanism
blind only mitigate the first attack used while in blind condition
thus if thief use BP on you dont use the key skill rather than use AA to clear the blind first than use you key skill on him
thief area blind control is for short period and you can still attack thief even if you stand outside the blind ring so dont stand in it
also as mention above thief cannot spam it as it cost 6 ini so if thief spam it he basically cant hurt you for 4-8 seconds

Dagins.5163:

Dee Jay.2460:

To be fair, I wasn’t thinking about S/P much. But then again you still have Headshot which serves the same purpose as an interrupt.

So the point remains.

You can’t interrupt somebody who is in downed state (with exception of launch) and under stability effect. For me, it is very common to blind a downed guardian/warrior/ranger/engineer/necromancer from range, who is being stomped by my teammate to secure the kill; especially when playing p/p, when I can’t close range and put smoke field on top of them.

Black powder and headshot differ a lot in terms on interrupting attacks. A good thief use them alternately, depending on situation. For example, it’s the best to blind an eviscerate, earthshaker or heartseeker, while blinding hundred blades, a stomp or a heal is pointless – where you should use daze instead. There are much more examples, and they can be found against every single class in this game. Yes, your suggestion would dumb down the thief.

Well it is supposed to be a nerf. And the situations you describe are so niche I don’t think they are worth taking into account.

I mean you can still blind people just fine, you’ll just need to do it with the Black Powder field. I don’t consider that dumbing down.

I am well familiar with blind mechanics btw. and still consider this a fair change to what is otherwise a slightly overpowered ability.

But as usual everyone gets super protective of their class once you suggest even a minor nerf and conjure up completely unlikely scenarios where this may affect them negatively somehow.

Some things never change.

PS: You’d have to be pretty ignorant not to see Thieves lining up for further nerfs. They are coming and me personally would prefer them applied in a reasonable fashion that opens up more counter-potential while retaining the core functionality. And this is precisely what this suggestion does.

messiah.1908:

obviously the OP dont know the blind mechanism
blind only mitigate the first attack used while in blind condition
thus if thief use BP on you dont use the key skill rather than use AA to clear the blind first than use you key skill on him
thief area blind control is for short period and you can still attack thief even if you stand outside the blind ring so dont stand in it
also as mention above thief cannot spam it as it cost 6 ini so if thief spam it he basically cant hurt you for 4-8 seconds

that’s the biggest lol actually people do.

U blind chain them, they keep using heavy skills, after you stop using it, they’re left with auto attack and then, they come to forums and say – blind too OP.

kitten for brains really.

IMO this is a great idea. +1
But to reply to needing the blind to a downed enemy you can use #5 on the SB to do an AoE blind.

messiah.1908:

obviously the OP dont know the blind mechanism
blind only mitigate the first attack used while in blind condition
thus if thief use BP on you dont use the key skill rather than use AA to clear the blind first than use you key skill on him
thief area blind control is for short period and you can still attack thief even if you stand outside the blind ring so dont stand in it
also as mention above thief cannot spam it as it cost 6 ini so if thief spam it he basically cant hurt you for 4-8 seconds

Obviously you don’t know blind mechanism or didn’t play for very long time, because that was changed months ago. You must hit and miss something when blinded for blind to go off, hitting air doesn’t work anymore.

These ,,niche situations" make good thieves and great thieves, because reacting to them might win or lose you a team fight, or even a match at higher level of gameplay.

Problem is, you are probably looking at it from D/P point of view, where black powder + heartseeker combo is somehow over the top, and the nerf would be more or less needed to this weapon set; especially when you have already ranged blind on shadow shot, which is also cheapper.

And last – you predict thieves are going to be nerfed, so you started inventing things to keep the -nerf list- full? Such a wrong way of thinking. Nerfs should be applied to overpowered mechanisms, and buffs to these underpowered – that’s all. There should be no ,,we nerfed two things, so we should buff two things as a compensation" because this is not how you make balance. If making this class balanced means only nerfs (or buffs) then do so.
Being protective against nerfs and cautious with buffs is important, because it saves us from chaos, which is a negation of balance. Thankfully Devs know this, and they rarely make knee-jerk decisions.

Dagins.5163:

These ,,niche situations" make good thieves and great thieves, because reacting to them might win or lose you a team fight, or even a match at higher level of gameplay.

Problem is, you are probably looking at it from D/P point of view, where black powder + heartseeker combo is somehow over the top, and the nerf would be more or less needed to this weapon set; especially when you have already ranged blind on shadow shot, which is also cheapper.

And last – you predict thieves are going to be nerfed, so you started inventing things to keep the -nerf list- full? Such a wrong way of thinking. Nerfs should be applied to overpowered mechanisms, and buffs to these underpowered – that’s all.

I think you’re exaggerating the impact of this proposed changed. I’ve seen a number of high-rated matches and none gave me the impression that this nerf would affect them in any way.

And in case you mist it, yes I do think Black Powder is overpowered. And rather than see it nerfed directly in a way that makes it significantly less useful I am proposing a change that would have less impact on the core effect (PbAoE Blinds) while opening it up to more potential counters.

In a way I too am being protective. But I’m trying to stay ahead of the curve.

You mention d/p blind spamming being OP, thieves herd to the forums to defend it. Same thing with PU mesmers. Same thing with warriors. These GW2 forums are a terrible place to actually discuss strong game mechanics. Nobody wants to give an inch. The rise and fall of this game is that most of the combat mechanics are strong, independent, and sometimes easily exploited.

Tao.5096:

messiah.1908:

obviously the OP dont know the blind mechanism
blind only mitigate the first attack used while in blind condition
thus if thief use BP on you dont use the key skill rather than use AA to clear the blind first than use you key skill on him
thief area blind control is for short period and you can still attack thief even if you stand outside the blind ring so dont stand in it
also as mention above thief cannot spam it as it cost 6 ini so if thief spam it he basically cant hurt you for 4-8 seconds

that’s the biggest lol actually people do.

U blind chain them, they keep using heavy skills, after you stop using it, they’re left with auto attack and then, they come to forums and say – blind too OP.

kitten for brains really.

Probably a warrior venting. "I pressed every button in 5 seconds and had to wait 40 seconds to redo that because I missed. Thief op, this is unfair "