Guild Wars 2

This has always been a terrible trait, whenever I down a thief and see the smoke screen pop up first thing I do is whisper them out of the goodness of my heart and tell them to change it, as they are obviously new to playing thief and have no idea how this trait is working AGAINST them in pvp/wvw. For anyone that does not know why this is so bad, its because it gives away the fact that you are downed and your position.
I would like to see this trait removed completely from the game, its prob worst thief trait ever created, and bundling it together in the future patch with the 20% reduction to deception skills trait is just going to kill the Master of Deception trait for anyone that wanted to use it.
Anyway, who is with me that it should be removed completely?

It should be buffed to cause stomps to miss.

No, the trait is fine. Has some niche uses in WvW and is pretty good in PvE. If you dislike it, just don’t take it.

Can we just roll concealed defeat into last refuge so that you drop smokescreen on hitting 25% health instead of BP?

mango.9267:

No, the trait is fine. Has some niche uses in WvW and is pretty good in PvE. If you dislike it, just don’t take it.

Niche uses in wvw? please name one.

Vavume.8065:

mango.9267:

No, the trait is fine. Has some niche uses in WvW and is pretty good in PvE. If you dislike it, just don’t take it.

Niche uses in wvw? please name one.

Two groups are pirate shipping in a choke. You get caught and pewpew’d to death. Concealed defeat gives you a smokescreen that lets your team quickly res you without getting pewpew’d as well.

You get bursted down, drop a smokescreen, and let the other thieves on your team blast for stealth to get you up or to leap through for less costly stealth.

These are just a couple of examples of niche uses in WvW. It might not be the most optimal choice for every build/comp/scenario, but it’s not entirely useless either.

mango.9267:

Vavume.8065:

mango.9267:

No, the trait is fine. Has some niche uses in WvW and is pretty good in PvE. If you dislike it, just don’t take it.

Niche uses in wvw? please name one.

Two groups are pirate shipping in a choke. You get caught and pewpew’d to death. Concealed defeat gives you a smokescreen that lets your team quickly res you without getting pewpew’d as well.

You get bursted down, drop a smokescreen, and let the other thieves on your team blast for stealth to get you up or to leap through for less costly stealth.

These are just a couple of examples of niche uses in WvW. It might not be the most optimal choice for every build/comp/scenario, but it’s not entirely useless either.

I’ve never seen this happen, and while in theory it sounds like it could work out, I recall there being tons of aoes that aren’t projectiles that would still kill a downed thief despite this trait activating. Meteor shower, barrage, gaurdian symbols, projectile aoes fired close enough to the smokescreen not to be negated but still put a field that overlaps to the other side, necros wells and marks… yeah… still useless even in the situation you came up unfortunately.

mango.9267:

Vavume.8065:

mango.9267:

No, the trait is fine. Has some niche uses in WvW and is pretty good in PvE. If you dislike it, just don’t take it.

Niche uses in wvw? please name one.

Two groups are pirate shipping in a choke. You get caught and pewpew’d to death. Concealed defeat gives you a smokescreen that lets your team quickly res you without getting pewpew’d as well.

You get bursted down, drop a smokescreen, and let the other thieves on your team blast for stealth to get you up or to leap through for less costly stealth.

These are just a couple of examples of niche uses in WvW. It might not be the most optimal choice for every build/comp/scenario, but it’s not entirely useless either.

Well I don’t know about you, but I never trait for being downed. Your examples are indeed very niche and honestly I would /laugh at any thief using this trait for those reasons.

It’s not so concealed if you ask me let’s rename it “Suicidal Defeat” or “Selfless Drag”, the current name and action go against what thieves are. Would it hurt if becomes “Create a smoke screen when using Smoke Bomb”? I decide if I want it and I can use it to bait then Shadow Escape or use it to protect rez.

I am gonna give a break for “on kill” traits since they are usefull for PvE.

But any on downed trait must be flat removed.

Well, if I had my way, anyone that is downed in stealth would be automatically revealed (because, you know, they got bopped), but that seems to be an unpopular opinion. However, it would make it so that concealed defeat was wholly beneficial. Allies could even blast it to restealth you after being downed.

The only reason it’s not taken now is because it actually makes it easier for people to kill you, except in certain niche situations that barely ever come up. Simply tacking it onto something else that’s desirable doesn’t really change anything. It’s just taking a useful trait and bundling it with something that people generally won’t want.

It’d be like if I had to install the Ask.com toolbar browser add on in order to play GW2. I’d rather the toolbar burned in hell, but I want to play GW2 as well.

So yes, bundling a kitten with something I want is giving me more. However, it doesn’t mean I want or like the kitten , and it can actually make me like the thing I actually like less desirable.

I sometimes use the 20% deception cd reduction, I’ll avoid it like cancer in HoT.

I agree this trait was always odd and not appealing. Now with the 20% deception cd reduction it’s a hard choice. Do I risk reveal my position for the bonus I want?

Would be good in PvE, but not so much in WvW or PvP.

I would recommend them to change the Smoke Screen for another effect, such as Blinding Powder.

Concealed Defeat:
Release a Blinding Powder when downed. Deception abilities recharge 20% faster.

I agree with changing concealed defeat. The trait is terrible and hurts thieves more than helps. Replace the downed part with something else.

Suggestion:
Deceiving Defeat:
Gain a charge of deceiving defeat for each kill, the player gains stealth for 1 second per charge upon leaving combat. (Maximum 5 charges) Deception abilities recharge 20% faster.

Not something stellar, but better than what it is in its current iteration.

Blinding powder on down is also a good idea. But don’t leave the trait as is. Take the opportunity with these changes to remove all the clutter, and add flavor.

Concealed Defeat is one of those traits that should have been deleted. For Anet to leave it in and merge it with a popular trait speaks volumes about Anet.

I would remove Last Refuge and then have Concealed Defeat change to:

- Recharge a random Deception skill on your skill bar when you reach the health threshold. Reduce Deception skill recharge. (let’s say a 40s or 60s CD)

This way a pseudo, less intrusive Last Refuge becomes a choice with a bonus. Cloaked in Shadow could then go where Last Refuge used to be to help x/D builds.

I think even just putting the health threshold to like 25% or something instead of being on downed would be enough. I mean, how many threads are there about people complaining about rangers shooting them through stealth with rapid fire? Well, if you get your auto-smokescreen proc at 25% health, that could help protect you against that, while also not completely saying “HEY, YOU DOWNED ME, I’M RIGHT HERE!”.

I’m happy to see I’m not alone in my thinking with this trait, however we certainly need more thieves to support the idea of removing this trait to get it done. This trait does not deserve a place in the new patch and this is the perfect time for it to be removed once and for all.

Agreed! They should move deception recharge to Shadow’s Protector! lol Concealed Defeat over Shadow’s Embrace.

Ok… Did whoever who posted the “niche situations” ever actually even used it like that, or was it an attempt at finding use in something that’s quite obviously bad? And do you still use it now?
I got nothing against people using it in PvE, but like Vavume, I let any thief using it in WvW know that it’s because of that trait, that I knew their exact location of death. (same thing with scrubs that use minis…)
I’d hate having to avoid the 20% deception reduction because of this mash up.

I really believe that while the trait warrants removal this can not happen without SE being moved to the slot where Meld with shadows is and meld with shadows made baseline or some such adjustment . People going the SA line generally need the SE for condition cleanse 9 times out of ten.

This likely one reason there not so many complaints about it.

babazhook.6805:

I really believe that while the trait warrants removal this can not happen without SE being moved to the slot where Meld with shadows is and meld with shadows made baseline or some such adjustment . People going the SA line generally need the SE for condition cleanse 9 times out of ten.

This likely one reason there not so many complaints about it.

Good point. It signifies even more that the SA trait line is just weird. Most thieves would sooner complain about the lousy choice of Major Master traits (with Hidden Thief completely ruining the most popular steal combos).

So possibly Concealed Defeat is not being fixed because for Minor trait they will just take Shadow’s Embrace and other problems in the specialization. That’s pretty messed up if you ask me.

I’d be happy if they just changed it to blinding powder on down, or smokescreen at 25%. Or something else entirely, like stealth gives protection for three seconds for you and nearby allies.

I take concealed defeat for the cool down reduction. I frankly don’t care what it does when I’m downed. 95% of the time if I’m down I’m dead anyways if I’m alone.

As long as I can keep the cool down reduction, replacing the smoke field is something that I wouldn’t mind…although I’d never ask for it as a priority.