Guild Wars 2

Deception Skills should be the thieves base skills they unlock as they level.

F1: Steal
F2: Smoke Screen
F3: Shadow Refuge
F4: Shadow Step

Shadow Step is always going to be a member of the utility bar anyways, why not make it a base thief mechanic?

might help our defense too ya?

They should have just called the proffesion ‘Shinobi’ instead of thief.

This would be far to strong…

Aberrant.6749:

This would be far to strong…

How?

Because having access to almost an entire skill set on top of utility slots wouldn’t be too strong? Imagine if elementalists had access to cantrips AND the rest of their utility slots…

Sorry but just like so many of your suggestions its just not that well thought through nor balanced in anyway.

No it wouldn’t it’s a sound idea. The cooldowns need to be long and only reducable by investing in Trickery.

However Shadow Step shouldn’t be on it, that should remain a utility skill or should be a Shadow Return for the spot you used Steal from.

This would basically give us 3 more skills to use than other professions. Don’t you think we have enough of their complaints as it is? It would increase exponentially if your suggestion were to actually come to fruition which it turn would lead to more nerfs. I don’t know about you but I am all nerfed out.

A thief would either get 6 utilities, with 3 of the strongest and generally most used ones for free (one seems to get deleted)

Or if they toned em down due to their movement to passives thief would get 6 utilities with 3 of the most used/strongest utilities nerfed down to the point where they are no longer really wanted etc.

So either thieves get a massive boost to an actually unfair level or thieves get some of their best skills nerfed for no real reason.

Ah man I loved Shinobi

Dasorine.1964:

Because having access to almost an entire skill set on top of utility slots wouldn’t be too strong? Imagine if elementalists had access to cantrips AND the rest of their utility slots…

Sorry but just like so many of your suggestions its just not that well thought through nor balanced in anyway.

I completely agree. If you want to be stealthy, you have to trait and equip utilities for it like any other class that wants to fulfill a certain role.

If this is gonna be the case, I want Warrior Shouts to take up the F2-F4 slots and Engineer Elixir/Turrets to take up the toolbelt slots.

Do you guys not understand that doing stuff like that would break the game’s already precarious balance? It’s bad enough that metagame is already getting skewed by nerfs to professions like the Engineer and Necromancer.

If Anet wants to buff thieves, they should make Venoms hit harder so that thieves aren’t REQUIRED to take stealth utilities in order to get decent damage. It would add variety to the class in the same way that mesmers have (because mesmers have tons of build possibilities – I love that class).

i loveeeeee this idea

i support this

Daecollo.9578:

Deception Skills should be the thieves base skills they unlock as they level.

F1: Steal
F2: Smoke Screen
F3: Shadow Refuge
F4: Shadow Step

Shadow Step is always going to be a member of the utility bar anyways, why not make it a base thief mechanic?

No.

That would make your class OP as kitten.

Teamkiller.4315:

Daecollo.9578:

Deception Skills should be the thieves base skills they unlock as they level.

F1: Steal
F2: Smoke Screen
F3: Shadow Refuge
F4: Shadow Step

Shadow Step is always going to be a member of the utility bar anyways, why not make it a base thief mechanic?

No.

That would make your class OP as kitten.

Howso?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29M_VElHoFI

Daecollo.9578:

Teamkiller.4315:

Daecollo.9578:

Deception Skills should be the thieves base skills they unlock as they level.

F1: Steal
F2: Smoke Screen
F3: Shadow Refuge
F4: Shadow Step

Shadow Step is always going to be a member of the utility bar anyways, why not make it a base thief mechanic?

No.

That would make your class OP as kitten.

Howso?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29M_VElHoFI

Because you are essentially doubling the utilities available to your class

Teamkiller.4315:

Daecollo.9578:

Teamkiller.4315:

Daecollo.9578:

Deception Skills should be the thieves base skills they unlock as they level.

F1: Steal
F2: Smoke Screen
F3: Shadow Refuge
F4: Shadow Step

Shadow Step is always going to be a member of the utility bar anyways, why not make it a base thief mechanic?

No.

That would make your class OP as kitten.

Howso?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29M_VElHoFI

Because you are essentially doubling the utilities available to your class

Our Utilities blow compared to other classes, the only good utilities we have are deception, and they are the ones that are glued to our hotbar.

Daecollo.9578:

Teamkiller.4315:

Daecollo.9578:

Teamkiller.4315:

Daecollo.9578:

Deception Skills should be the thieves base skills they unlock as they level.

F1: Steal
F2: Smoke Screen
F3: Shadow Refuge
F4: Shadow Step

Shadow Step is always going to be a member of the utility bar anyways, why not make it a base thief mechanic?

No.

That would make your class OP as kitten.

Howso?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29M_VElHoFI

Because you are essentially doubling the utilities available to your class

Our Utilities blow compared to other classes, the only good utilities we have are deception, and they are the ones that are glued to our hotbar.

No, your other utilities blow in comparison to other classes’ best utilities.

Every class has a set of utilities that blow as well. Your suggestion would be akin to something like this:

Guardian — F4 F5 F6 All Shouts
Elementalists — F5 F6 F7 Cantrips
Ranger — F5 F6 F7 Traps
Mesmer — F5 F6 F7 Glamour
Warrior — F2 F3 F4 Shouts
Necro — F2 F3 F4 Wells
Engineer — I don’t even know about engineers but Fx – F(x+3) put 3 most commonly used Engi utilities here

Are you willing to let all the other classes have this? If no then your suggestion would make Thief OP.

Teamkiller.4315:

Daecollo.9578:

Teamkiller.4315:

Daecollo.9578:

Teamkiller.4315:

Daecollo.9578:

Deception Skills should be the thieves base skills they unlock as they level.

F1: Steal
F2: Smoke Screen
F3: Shadow Refuge
F4: Shadow Step

Shadow Step is always going to be a member of the utility bar anyways, why not make it a base thief mechanic?

No.

That would make your class OP as kitten.

Howso?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29M_VElHoFI

Because you are essentially doubling the utilities available to your class

Our Utilities blow compared to other classes, the only good utilities we have are deception, and they are the ones that are glued to our hotbar.

No, your other utilities blow in comparison to other classes’ best utilities.

Every class has a set of utilities that blow as well. Your suggestion would be akin to something like this:

Guardian — F4 F5 F6 All Shouts
Elementalists — F5 F6 F7 Cantrips
Ranger — F5 F6 F7 Traps
Mesmer — F5 F6 F7 Glamour
Warrior — F2 F3 F4 Shouts
Necro — F2 F3 F4 Wells
Engineer — I don’t even know about engineers but Fx – F(x+3) put 3 most commonly used Engi utilities here

Are you willing to let all the other classes have this? If no then your suggestion would make Thief OP.

Mesmers have shatter, and all those other classes don’t “NEED” those skills to be good.

Thieves HAVE TO HAVE Shadow Step on there tool bar, there is no ifs and or buts.

Hrmm? I really hate to go against a fellow thief but I don’t use Shadow Step and do just fine.

Teamkiller.4315:

Engineer — I don’t even know about engineers but Fx – F(x+3) put 3 most commonly used Engi utilities here

Access to all utility skills simultaneously for engineers.

Although in truth, a similar suggestion has been made on the engineer forums for our kits being accessible in a similar manner. This suggestion is similarly-minded.

The only way this change would make sense is if the actually utilities moved up to the F-bar would be significantly reduced in power.

I say this because my completely fraudulent thief would become even more empowered, which is a step backwards in game balance.

This is a case of having your cake and wanting to eat it too.

its less having your cake and wanting to eat it too (as thats understandable if I have some cake I want to eat it) but more wanting your cake, and everyone elses cake to yourself for free for no reason other than you like cake.

This will never happen.

Mesmers have shatter, and all those other classes don’t “NEED” those skills to be good.

No? You’re absolutely right. There are more than 3 usable utilities for every class. THIEF INCLUDED.

Thieves HAVE TO HAVE Shadow Step on there tool bar, there is no ifs and or buts.

No they don’t. That’s not an if. That’s a NO. Tell me, what is shadow step used for primarily? Offense? No? Then it won’t interfere with your ability to kill. Good day.

i prefer signets on f2-f3-f4

Well, I dont know about the other classes, but I have an 80
warrior, thief and Ele. In playing all of them, the same common
problem arises where “an ability is too good NOT to have on your
skill bar.”

Another example is the Signet that gives 25% speed to a Thief. You are
already down 1 slot because thats just too darn good to not have. Things
like that should be traits, not skills.

Thunderbrew.7034:

Well, I dont know about the other classes, but I have an 80
warrior, thief and Ele. In playing all of them, the same common
problem arises where “an ability is too good NOT to have on your
skill bar.”

Another example is the Signet that gives 25% speed to a Thief. You are
already down 1 slot because thats just too darn good to not have. Things
like that should be traits, not skills.

That’s the skill that every thief puts on their bar… and then switches for something else before starting a fight TBH. The only way it stays on most bars during a fight is if you’ve been ambushed and didn’t have a chance to swap it for something more useful for your build.

Now, I’m not convinced at this suggestion, namely because all professions still need some balance passes on their skill selections. As for giving the thief other options than steal, I’m on board with that. Take a page from the engineer book and thing of our “big three” as utilities, and the f key abilities as “toolbelt” versions.

The difference here is that we can’t choose different skills, but the general idea is that you’d have a “mini” version of our big three with a shared GCD that’s modified by trickery.

In addition, traits that apply effects to steal would need reworked to apply said effects to all “Thievery Skills” in addition, these skills all work thematically like steal in that you can “set up” with the first chain and hold on to that setup indefinately until you’re prepared to use it. However, using any thievery skill will dump the “charge” on all of them. For instance, if you’ve set a shadow mark, and then use steal, shadow mark will revert to it’s initial ability in steal of remaining shadow return.

for example:

• F1: Steal>stolen item
  Fine as is

• F2: Escape Route>Conceal (Mini-refuge)
  Prepare an escape route at a nearby location within 900 units and a radius of 400. When activated with “conceal” this ability grants 2 seconds of stealth to up to 5 allies within the area of effect and heals for 500. Acts as a dark field for 2 seconds. Generally useful as support or a more work-intensive additional stealth for stacking.

• F3: Shadow Mark> Shadow Return (Mini-Shadowstep)
  Mark your current location. You may shadowstep to this location with Shadow Return at any time from a range of 1000 or less. Using Shadow return from outside maximum range will shadowstep toward your mark 1000 units. In either case, the mark is consumed after use. Useful in a number of ways. Melee can use it to pre-set an ambush location while ranged can use as a reliable escape mechanism.

• F4: Dust Trap>Ignite (Mini-Smokescreen)
  Prepare a Dust Trap (line trap) at your location. When triggered with the “ignite” skill, this trap will block projectiles for three seconds and blind any foes that pass through it. Does not function as a combo field. Useful for pre-setting an escape route or on the fly as a personal/party defensive tool.

and finally

• Trait – Master Thief
  Trickery – Grandmaster – You may prepare two Thievery Skills at a time
  For example, you can have a stolen item and shadow mark simultaneously, and the “dumping” on the chains on use of a new thievery skill would follow FIFO, with the first chain clearing and the second remaining.

Example Trait interactions:

• Malice (Formerly Mug)
  Steal deals damage
  Shadow Mark’s Shadow Return drops mini-caltrops (like uncatchable) at source and destination.
  Dust Trap Reflects Projectiles
  Escape Route inflicts Confusion

• Serpent’s Touch
  Stealing Poisons
  Shadow Mark AoE Poison at source/destination
  Dust Trap Poisons
  Escape route leaves additional Poison field for 4s

• Improvisation
  Recharge proc applies to all Thievery Skills.
  Damage buff applies to any prepared Thievery Skill (capped at 10%)

• Hidden Thief
  Steal Stealths
  Escape Route grants an additional 1s of stealth
  Dust Trap Stealths allies that move through it for 2s
  Shadow Recall Stealths for 2s

• Getaway Artist (Formerly Long Reach)
  Increases range on Steal &Shadow mark
  Adds Swiftness to Escape Route
  Allows Dust trap to be ground targeted in a 900 range.

Etc. etc.

Teamkiller.4315:

Daecollo.9578:

Deception Skills should be the thieves base skills they unlock as they level.

F1: Steal
F2: Smoke Screen
F3: Shadow Refuge
F4: Shadow Step

Shadow Step is always going to be a member of the utility bar anyways, why not make it a base thief mechanic?

No.

That would make your class OP as kitten.

im pretty sure that engineers have just as many strong skills in f1 f2 f3 f4 from their utilities…but not thiefs…too op…yeah ay too loll ….imo its a sound idea!

would be nice. bc i gotta say there are only usefull traits in shadow arts. the rest are mediocre (choosable ones) other than maybe 2-3 like 20% dmg under 50% hp and another 1 idk….but most the grandmaster ones are so so. even in shadowarts i have granmaster and dont use x xi or xii :P sometimes i do use xii but thats in bleed build. but a coupel hundred hp in invis aint that strong.

Aberrant.6749:

This would be far to strong…

As opposed to far too weak? Like we are now. I don’t see how this is more powerful than engi’s gadgets, guardian virtues, warrior burst, or death shroud. Care to offer thought or constructive criticism as opposed to a mere complaint.

Replace refuge with blinding powder, and this idea is genius. Refuge is buggy and constricts player to an aoe to get the full effect. This idea also frees up utility slots so the class can do more to help a group.

Ekemeister.8905:

Aberrant.6749:

This would be far to strong…

As opposed to far too weak? Like we are now. I don’t see how this is more powerful than engi’s gadgets, guardian virtues, warrior burst, or death shroud. Care to offer thought or constructive criticism as opposed to a mere complaint.

Replace refuge with blinding powder, and this idea is genius. Refuge is buggy and constricts player to an aoe to get the full effect. This idea also frees up utility slots so the class can do more to help a group.

i have to 2nd this. although i like SR the way it is.. if it wasnt buggy we wouldnt get 12 secs of stealth. if we did get 12 secs and could leave right away it would be too OP. it has just the right amount of give right now. although i think enemies should be blinded in it. and that blind should not remove unless u hit somebody or atleast blind with a 75% chance to miss for the duration of it like in gw1 *(although that was 90% chance to miss)

Holy crap that would make us amazing, like destroy every class in the game and force them to reroll amazing.

Yes lets baseline the only defensives and utilities I use, then I can run a full signet build ALONG with it and just be god mode =D

/sarcasm

thats a lil much mr warrior guy.

Do people forget what steal does ?? lol
that’s our other power’s right there… something other professions dont get.
And i like it as it.. deception skills rech 10% faster.. in grawl map of fractals is a life saver

Ekemeister.8905:

Aberrant.6749:

This would be far to strong…

As opposed to far too weak? Like we are now. I don’t see how this is more powerful than engi’s gadgets, guardian virtues, warrior burst, or death shroud. Care to offer thought or constructive criticism as opposed to a mere complaint.

Replace refuge with blinding powder, and this idea is genius. Refuge is buggy and constricts player to an aoe to get the full effect. This idea also frees up utility slots so the class can do more to help a group.

Its the difference between them having class skills designed to work with their own limitations to this suggestion which is just “I use x y and z utilities almost exclusively, can I please have them for free so I can use other utilities without giving up the utilities Im currently using”

Steals strength is hard to measure, at its very base level its a 45 second shadowstep to the target at its strongest its a 1.5 damage hit that applies poison, buffs the thief and its team every 30 seconds and allows the thief to utilize powerful moves such as consume plasma.

Personally I wouldn’t say no to some additions to the fX mechanics for thieves but just slapping 3 of daecollo’s favourite utilities (and I dunno, deleting the 4th but who cares they don’t seem to use it) isn’t the way to go as it will either be too powerful (it would just be 6 utility slots for thief) or it could be really weak (moving them to Fskills but massively nerfing them to keep things balanced meaning we loose 3-4 powerful utilities in return for 3 weaker but “ok” fskills in return)

If they were to add things to the thieves fskills it would ideally both work around whats currently there and not require sacrificing things we already have.

For example:

F1: Steal (how it currently is)
F2: Stolen Item (After stealing the most recent stolen item goes here instead of over F1 allowing you to see the cooldown without burning the skill)
F3: Improvisation (Draws a random weapon out of your stock of stolen items)
F4: Improvised Weapon (Uses the recently improvised weapon)
F5: Hidden Pouch (Opens a window that lists all currently owned stolen items)

This way you can steal up a stock of items as you go along, if you favour a specific item you could stock up heavily on that, you can then draw the items out randomly at a later date to use so you can open up a fight with an improvised weapon ready at the start.

Each stolen item would have its own cooldown dependent on its own power rather than relying on steals cooldown allowing adjustments to steal so you could possibly use it more often while certain skills like mug could be transfered to say additional damage on item use/next attack after steal instead and such.

Daecollo.9578:

Deception Skills should be the thieves base skills they unlock as they level.

F1: Steal
F2: Smoke Screen
F3: Shadow Refuge
F4: Shadow Step

Shadow Step is always going to be a member of the utility bar anyways, why not make it a base thief mechanic?

I’ve got a better suggestion. Before you press the “Create new thread” button, reread what you just typed, and really really think about what your saying. Its getting quite old to see a new thread on a near daily basis that has you suggesting things that are completely out of whack and just insanely unbalanced. Your class mechanics are steal and initiative. Thanks to initiative you don’t get a f2-4. Get over it.

SwickHobo.5096:

Daecollo.9578:

Deception Skills should be the thieves base skills they unlock as they level.

F1: Steal
F2: Smoke Screen
F3: Shadow Refuge
F4: Shadow Step

Shadow Step is always going to be a member of the utility bar anyways, why not make it a base thief mechanic?

I’ve got a better suggestion. Before you press the “Create new thread” button, reread what you just typed, and really really think about what your saying. Its getting quite old to see a new thread on a near daily basis that has you suggesting things that are completely out of whack and just insanely unbalanced. Your class mechanics are steal and initiative. Thanks to initiative you don’t get a f2-4. Get over it.

thanks to intiative…what a noob thing to say…. eles can spam spells nonstop for hours…LITERALLY. we can use 2 skillls and then wait for it to refill ……. look at engineers/mesmers they get f1-f4 with GOOD DMG skills cmon. atleast have a general idea of how other classes are played before making a hate comment. FAIL.

Travlane.5948:

SwickHobo.5096:

Daecollo.9578:

Deception Skills should be the thieves base skills they unlock as they level.

F1: Steal
F2: Smoke Screen
F3: Shadow Refuge
F4: Shadow Step

Shadow Step is always going to be a member of the utility bar anyways, why not make it a base thief mechanic?

I’ve got a better suggestion. Before you press the “Create new thread” button, reread what you just typed, and really really think about what your saying. Its getting quite old to see a new thread on a near daily basis that has you suggesting things that are completely out of whack and just insanely unbalanced. Your class mechanics are steal and initiative. Thanks to initiative you don’t get a f2-4. Get over it.

thanks to intiative…what a noob thing to say…. eles can spam spells nonstop for hours…LITERALLY. we can use 2 skillls and then wait for it to refill ……. look at engineers/mesmers they get f1-f4 with GOOD DMG skills cmon. atleast have a general idea of how other classes are played before making a hate comment. FAIL.

Effectiveness of said mechanics isn’t what i’m arguing about. Initiative whether you like it or not is your mechanic. Thanks to the existence of it, you get less then others. You can also spam 1 for hours LITERALLY. Just saying.

SwickHobo.5096:

Travlane.5948:

SwickHobo.5096:

Daecollo.9578:

Deception Skills should be the thieves base skills they unlock as they level.

F1: Steal
F2: Smoke Screen
F3: Shadow Refuge
F4: Shadow Step

Shadow Step is always going to be a member of the utility bar anyways, why not make it a base thief mechanic?

I’ve got a better suggestion. Before you press the “Create new thread” button, reread what you just typed, and really really think about what your saying. Its getting quite old to see a new thread on a near daily basis that has you suggesting things that are completely out of whack and just insanely unbalanced. Your class mechanics are steal and initiative. Thanks to initiative you don’t get a f2-4. Get over it.

thanks to intiative…what a noob thing to say…. eles can spam spells nonstop for hours…LITERALLY. we can use 2 skillls and then wait for it to refill ……. look at engineers/mesmers they get f1-f4 with GOOD DMG skills cmon. atleast have a general idea of how other classes are played before making a hate comment. FAIL.

Effectiveness of said mechanics isn’t what i’m arguing about. Initiative whether you like it or not is your mechanic. Thanks to the existence of it, you get less then others. You can also spam 1 for hours LITERALLY. Just saying.

Everyone can spam 1 for hours, the fact that the thief can use 2-5 back to back less than others…

Technically if you get into it a thief does have probably the most profession mechanics (steal, dual skills, stealth attacks and initiative) but if they are all fairly weak it doesn’t mean changes, improvements and additions can’t be done.

Dasorine.1964:

SwickHobo.5096:

Travlane.5948:

SwickHobo.5096:

Daecollo.9578:

Deception Skills should be the thieves base skills they unlock as they level.

F1: Steal
F2: Smoke Screen
F3: Shadow Refuge
F4: Shadow Step

Shadow Step is always going to be a member of the utility bar anyways, why not make it a base thief mechanic?

I’ve got a better suggestion. Before you press the “Create new thread” button, reread what you just typed, and really really think about what your saying. Its getting quite old to see a new thread on a near daily basis that has you suggesting things that are completely out of whack and just insanely unbalanced. Your class mechanics are steal and initiative. Thanks to initiative you don’t get a f2-4. Get over it.

thanks to intiative…what a noob thing to say…. eles can spam spells nonstop for hours…LITERALLY. we can use 2 skillls and then wait for it to refill ……. look at engineers/mesmers they get f1-f4 with GOOD DMG skills cmon. atleast have a general idea of how other classes are played before making a hate comment. FAIL.

Effectiveness of said mechanics isn’t what i’m arguing about. Initiative whether you like it or not is your mechanic. Thanks to the existence of it, you get less then others. You can also spam 1 for hours LITERALLY. Just saying.

Everyone can spam 1 for hours, the fact that the thief can use 2-5 back to back less than others…

Technically if you get into it a thief does have probably the most profession mechanics (steal, dual skills, stealth attacks and initiative) but if they are all fairly weak it doesn’t mean changes, improvements and additions can’t be done.

yes but not the changes and improvement that the Topic poster is suggesting…t/p is a bad word apparently.

devaking.2397:

Dasorine.1964:

SwickHobo.5096:

Travlane.5948:

SwickHobo.5096:

Daecollo.9578:

Deception Skills should be the thieves base skills they unlock as they level.

F1: Steal
F2: Smoke Screen
F3: Shadow Refuge
F4: Shadow Step

Shadow Step is always going to be a member of the utility bar anyways, why not make it a base thief mechanic?

I’ve got a better suggestion. Before you press the “Create new thread” button, reread what you just typed, and really really think about what your saying. Its getting quite old to see a new thread on a near daily basis that has you suggesting things that are completely out of whack and just insanely unbalanced. Your class mechanics are steal and initiative. Thanks to initiative you don’t get a f2-4. Get over it.

thanks to intiative…what a noob thing to say…. eles can spam spells nonstop for hours…LITERALLY. we can use 2 skillls and then wait for it to refill ……. look at engineers/mesmers they get f1-f4 with GOOD DMG skills cmon. atleast have a general idea of how other classes are played before making a hate comment. FAIL.

Effectiveness of said mechanics isn’t what i’m arguing about. Initiative whether you like it or not is your mechanic. Thanks to the existence of it, you get less then others. You can also spam 1 for hours LITERALLY. Just saying.

Everyone can spam 1 for hours, the fact that the thief can use 2-5 back to back less than others…

Technically if you get into it a thief does have probably the most profession mechanics (steal, dual skills, stealth attacks and initiative) but if they are all fairly weak it doesn’t mean changes, improvements and additions can’t be done.

yes but not the changes and improvement that the T kitten uggesting

Heck no, the moment changes with so little thought like that make it in the game even for a class I main is the moment I leave and don’t look back :P

Dasorine.1964:

SwickHobo.5096:

Travlane.5948:

SwickHobo.5096:

Daecollo.9578:

Deception Skills should be the thieves base skills they unlock as they level.

F1: Steal
F2: Smoke Screen
F3: Shadow Refuge
F4: Shadow Step

Shadow Step is always going to be a member of the utility bar anyways, why not make it a base thief mechanic?

I’ve got a better suggestion. Before you press the “Create new thread” button, reread what you just typed, and really really think about what your saying. Its getting quite old to see a new thread on a near daily basis that has you suggesting things that are completely out of whack and just insanely unbalanced. Your class mechanics are steal and initiative. Thanks to initiative you don’t get a f2-4. Get over it.

thanks to intiative…what a noob thing to say…. eles can spam spells nonstop for hours…LITERALLY. we can use 2 skillls and then wait for it to refill ……. look at engineers/mesmers they get f1-f4 with GOOD DMG skills cmon. atleast have a general idea of how other classes are played before making a hate comment. FAIL.

Effectiveness of said mechanics isn’t what i’m arguing about. Initiative whether you like it or not is your mechanic. Thanks to the existence of it, you get less then others. You can also spam 1 for hours LITERALLY. Just saying.

Everyone can spam 1 for hours, the fact that the thief can use 2-5 back to back less than others…

Technically if you get into it a thief does have probably the most profession mechanics (steal, dual skills, stealth attacks and initiative) but if they are all fairly weak it doesn’t mean changes, improvements and additions can’t be done.

Yes but not everyone can spam 2-2-2. Or 3-3-3, or 4-2-4 or w/e combination is needed at the specific time. Its a trade off, maybe not a good one, but one non the less

Technically your right. I welcome improvements and changes that are fair and balanced. What Daellco suggested (or really every suggests) is completely unbalanced in every sense of the word.

Adding more f skills (especially ones of that caliber) is not the way to balance the thief, they have all the tools already they just need number tweaking atm.

@SWICKHOBO……. really? eles can def spam SKILLS 2-5 for HOURS without stopping. YES …..its a fact. also look at engis skills f1 2 3 4 etc….engis dont even use their utilities bc of those skills they want them up bc they are better! also look at guards… JUST with ther F1-4 they can do this :
REGENATION-
RETALIATION-
FULL HEAL –
MULTIPLE AEGIS-
REMOVE SEVERAL CONDITIONS)-
MULTIPLE BURN-
MULTIPLE PROTECTION-
STUN BREAK
STABILITY
REGENERATION
MIGHT

ON these you can also get RETALIATION from removal of aegis ….HEALS from removal of aegis….HEALS from sharing all these with allies…..AOE burning…..and other stuff that doesnt come to mind…..

ALL FROM …thats right……….. F1 F2 F3 F4

no posibilities on thief F1 (yeah only 1 lol :P )

EXTRA DMG
EXTRA SKILL (50% of them are bunk)
1 SEC STUN
CHANCE AT REFRESHING SKILL
STEAL 2 BOONS

On the guardian you can spec for ALL! on a thief u can get umm….maybe 3 of them. you telling me its OP if we get a few more skills not even the same power but modified down? ….sounds like….hate :P fail. if u are going to argue/debate great. theres no hate on my/our side as thieves. however come correct. come with facts, correlations and not feelings/opinions that are just i dont like it its overpowerd.

Travlane.5948:

@SWICKHOBO……. really? eles can def spam SKILLS 2-5 for HOURS without stopping. YES …..its a fact. also look at engis skills f1 2 3 4 etc….engis dont even use their utilities bc of those skills they want them up bc they are better! also look at guards… JUST with ther F1-4 they can do this :
REGENATION-
RETALIATION-
FULL HEAL –
MULTIPLE AEGIS-
REMOVE SEVERAL CONDITIONS)-
MULTIPLE BURN-
MULTIPLE PROTECTION-
STUN BREAK
STABILITY
REGENERATION
MIGHT

ON these you can also get RETALIATION from removal of aegis ….HEALS from removal of aegis….HEALS from sharing all these with allies…..AOE burning…..and other stuff that doesnt come to mind…..

ALL FROM …thats right……….. F1 F2 F3 F4

no posibilities on thief F1 (yeah only 1 lol :P )

EXTRA DMG
EXTRA SKILL (50% of them are bunk)
1 SEC STUN
CHANCE AT REFRESHING SKILL
STEAL 2 BOONS

On the guardian you can spec for ALL! on a thief u can get umm….maybe 3 of them. you telling me its OP if we get a few more skills not even the same power but modified down? ….sounds like….hate :P fail. if u are going to argue/debate great. theres no hate on my/our side as thieves. however come correct. come with facts, correlations and not feelings/opinions that are just i dont like it its overpowerd.

For starters, CAPS DO NOT HELP MAKE YOUR POINT, THEY ONLY MAKE YOU LOOK LIKE A PREPUBESCENT CHILD. Anyway, now that that’s outta the way.

Eles can spam 2-5 non stop, u can use 3 multiple times in a row. Its called a trade off. Google it.

You also left out The team fury/might/swiftness on steal. And the vigor from Bountiful theft. You also cannot have all those things you listed on a guard at the same time. Besides it doesn’t matter one bit where all the listed things come from, whether it be f1-4 or skill 6. The class mechanics are in place and they are very unlikely to change.

calling people names actually makes you look like a prepubescent child. im a grown man with a family i support im 6’3 and a body builder with a BS in psychology (more than willing to trade facebook info but im sure you wont which says enough ). yeah so nice try tho. Caps is only on the important KEY words incase you were to simple to notice. You could read just the caps and understand the hole message in a nutshell. personally i like skimming most messages as they have lil to nothing of interest/value and putting certain words like that can allow others to quickly decide if they would like to read it or not. most recipes online are in caps…doesnt mean its rude or yelling….i cant put bold or italicized on here as i dont see the option. but im sure you took this into account being more smarter lol.

how is using 3 2x in a row maybe 3 if speced then waying 15 seconds for initiative to get back full a trade off compared to spamming skills without reprieve? i dont understand? yes i did forget fury might swiftness on steal. good point. thieves do get a lil offensive boost from steal if specced right however guards get alot more offensive and alot more defensive and alot more heals….. so…………..? :P it is does matter where it comes from bc from steal a thief has an option to get up to lik 6 or 7 things from it at a time whereas a guard gets triple that from f1 f2 f3 etc. utility skills cancel each other out bc they both ahve the same amount. so you can really only look at the class specific Fs.

Travlane.5948:

calling people names actually makes you look like a prepubescent child. im a grown man with a family i support im 6’3 and a body builder with a BS in psychology (more than willing to trade facebook info but im sure you wont which says enough ). yeah so nice try tho. Caps is only on the important KEY words incase you were to simple to notice. You could read just the caps and understand the hole message in a nutshell. personally i like skimming most messages as they have lil to nothing of interest/value and putting certain words like that can allow others to quickly decide if they would like to read it or not. most recipes online are in caps…doesnt mean its rude or yelling….i cant put bold or italicized on here as i dont see the option. but im sure you took this into account being more smarter lol.

how is using 3 2x in a row maybe 3 if speced then waying 15 seconds for initiative to get back full a trade off compared to spamming skills without reprieve? i dont understand? yes i did forget fury might swiftness on steal. good point. thieves do get a lil offensive boost from steal if specced right however guards get alot more offensive and alot more defensive and alot more heals….. so…………..? :P it is does matter where it comes from bc from steal a thief has an option to get up to lik 6 or 7 things from it at a time whereas a guard gets triple that from f1 f2 f3 etc. utility skills cancel each other out bc they both ahve the same amount. so you can really only look at the class specific Fs.

Do you even lift?

here’s one more hint for you if u don’t believe me. try reading my message as if all the cap words were italicized ….aka putting emphasis on the word with a hard inflection.

Issues.5789:

Travlane.5948:

calling people names actually makes you look like a prepubescent child. im a grown man with a family i support im 6’3 and a body builder with a BS in psychology (more than willing to trade facebook info but im sure you wont which says enough ). yeah so nice try tho. Caps is only on the important KEY words incase you were to simple to notice. You could read just the caps and understand the hole message in a nutshell. personally i like skimming most messages as they have lil to nothing of interest/value and putting certain words like that can allow others to quickly decide if they would like to read it or not. most recipes online are in caps…doesnt mean its rude or yelling….i cant put bold or italicized on here as i dont see the option. but im sure you took this into account being more smarter lol.

how is using 3 2x in a row maybe 3 if speced then waying 15 seconds for initiative to get back full a trade off compared to spamming skills without reprieve? i dont understand? yes i did forget fury might swiftness on steal. good point. thieves do get a lil offensive boost from steal if specced right however guards get alot more offensive and alot more defensive and alot more heals….. so…………..? :P it is does matter where it comes from bc from steal a thief has an option to get up to lik 6 or 7 things from it at a time whereas a guard gets triple that from f1 f2 f3 etc. utility skills cancel each other out bc they both ahve the same amount. so you can really only look at the class specific Fs.

Do you even lift?

brah…..

Travlane.5948:

calling people names actually makes you look like a prepubescent child. im a grown man with a family i support im 6’3 and a body builder with a BS in psychology (more than willing to trade facebook info but im sure you wont which says enough ). yeah so nice try tho. Caps is only on the important KEY words incase you were to simple to notice. You could read just the caps and understand the hole message in a nutshell. personally i like skimming most messages as they have lil to nothing of interest/value and putting certain words like that can allow others to quickly decide if they would like to read it or not. most recipes online are in caps…doesnt mean its rude or yelling….i cant put bold or italicized on here as i dont see the option. but im sure you took this into account being more smarter lol.

how is using 3 2x in a row maybe 3 if speced then waying 15 seconds for initiative to get back full a trade off compared to spamming skills without reprieve? i dont understand? yes i did forget fury might swiftness on steal. good point. thieves do get a lil offensive boost from steal if specced right however guards get alot more offensive and alot more defensive and alot more heals….. so…………..? :P it is does matter where it comes from bc from steal a thief has an option to get up to lik 6 or 7 things from it at a time whereas a guard gets triple that from f1 f2 f3 etc. utility skills cancel each other out bc they both ahve the same amount. so you can really only look at the class specific Fs.

I didn’t call anyone a name. I made a generalized statement about how talking in all caps makes anyone look like a un-grown child. I also don’t have a facebook account to exchange info with you, as social media never appealed to me.

The forum has bold btw, and it looks much nicer and is a lot less painful on the eyes. bold Just put a word in stars (CTRL+8) and it’ll be bolded. Italics also exist but this ins’t a tut on BBC coding so i’ll stop there. Being more smarter as you say, has its benefits i suppose.

At base initiative you get at minimum four casts of any two skill. They all cost three you have 12 initiative. If your going to bring numbers into this then try your best to not to lie. The trade of comes from being able to use the best skill for the specific situation. That guys at 25% hp and he just blinked away, I could use two heartseekers to close the gap quickly and finish him off. Ah man, he popped phase retreat, but i can still finish him off with another seeker. As opposed to a warrior. That guys at 25% hp i’ll close the gap with savage leap, and finish him off. Oh wait i didn’t reach, plus he phase retreated so now hes even further away. Good thing i can still use my 3-5 skills, shame none of them will close that gap. That’s a trade off. You can adapt to any situation in the best possible way as long as your initiative allows it. And other classes can adapt to any situation in the best possible way as long as their cooldowns allow it.

The point about where it comes from still stands. Just because they both have a six skill, doesn’t mean they are both equal. You can have thirty different keys that doesn’t mean those thirty don’t do the same as those ten. (or something equally impressive/important)

srry i should have used the word claiming a name rather than calling? “PREPUBESCENT CHILD”

memorizing how to “bold” or italicize doesnt make you more intellectual ….perhaps more computer typing “savvy” . and yes you were. bc what does some a boys body have to do with using capital letters? i dont see a connection. then again i probably dont know much about a boys body. according to your correlative aptitude that would make you a pedofile possessing such prepubescent carnal knowledge? :P also not having a social media account is a common rebuttal when people talk trash online bc they are only hiding behind their anonymity and can only back with opinion and unjustifiable notions of others “physical immaturity” .

back to the real topic. you dont get 4 casts of anything OTHER than heartseeker. where do u get your info. u are obviously an ele or somethign on a thieves forum trolling. death blossom FIVE intiative. dancing dagger FOUR initiative. CnD SIX initiative. OH WAIT . … now i get it…u didnt know how much initiative we get max to start with. that answer is 12. so heartseeker being 3….12/3 =4 12/5 =2.4 12/4=3 and 12/6 =2 im sorry where did you get "At base initiative you get at minimum four casts of any two skill. They all cost three you have 12 initiative. If your going to bring numbers into this then try your best to not to lie. " and anyone who spams heartseeker is just wasting intiative :P and usually by 25% on opponent the thief is out of intiative or has 1 HS left. also HS is a very slow skill. super easy to dodge. i hope a guy is smart enough to save a defensive utility or dodge for crunch time. (crunch time being when hp is in the red zone)(red zone being when hp is at a critical stage)(critical stage being when hp is low enough you could die any moment) just to make it clear. point is that what the threadstarter offered as an idea was a good one. perhaps a lil OP perhaps not….depending on how the skills worked and what they were replaced with. and comparing just f1 on a thief to f1 2 3 4 on mesmer/guard….thief comes up SUPER short. cant deny that. i showed allt he skills above. all to be accurate. you read his starting thread as a this is the way it should be …rather than a baseline starting suggestion. perhaps be constructive since you are so OBVIOUSLY not a thief and havent played one extensively enough to know how to survive and when you cant. jc but what class are you so we all know what/who is trolling us.