Guild Wars 2

Ezeriel.9574:

Stealth isn’t the problem, cloak and dagger is.

The one-two punch of absurdity is:

One: Go invisible (stealth my ass)
Gain multiple buffs of your choice:
* Cloaked in Shadow (Blinds nearby foes)
* Fleet Shadow (Move 50% faster while in stealth)
* Hidden Assassin (Gain might)
* Hidden Killer (100% crit chance while stealthed)
* Shadow Protector (Grant Regeneration to allies you stealth)
* Infusion of Shadow (Gain 2 initiative when using a skill that stealths)
* Patience (Regain initiative faster)
* Shadow’s Embrace (Remove one condition every three seconds)
* Rejuvenation (Regenerate health)

Two: While invisible, use one of the highest damage single attacks in the game (backstab)

…then spend the rest of the day in the forums defending your class, while bragging about how skilled you are.

Exactly.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Azraeel.1238:

Yesterday I did WvW on my Necromancer, everytime I saw a thief come out of stealth I immobilized him, and attacked forcing him to put down shadows refuge, that’s when I placed my well of suffering right on top of it, and laughed when they appeared downed moments later.

Thieves aren’t easy to fight, but not impossible to beat. Just like mesmers. It requires some skills to counter them. Just because most probably you stood there doing nothing everytime a thief stealthed, doesn’t mean they should remove it!

That was a very bad Thief.

A) He didn’t escape your immobilize

B) He stood in your wells

That strategy would only work in PvP on a small point. That strategy is completely unviable in WvW. I could literally escape your wells spamming 2 on my S/D, or just Deathblossom spam, or Shortbow 5, then kill you while you’re waiting for tkittenecond long cooldown.

You just forgot one main aspect, 4 seconds revealed. That’s more than enough to force a shadows refuge. I have a level 80 thief, so I know what I’m talking about.

And I use every class save Guardian in high level tPvP, and I play both Thief and my main happens to be Necromancer. A good Thief, especially in WvW, will NOT get caught like that, and you will NOT beat him. He will out maneuver you, and kill you. He could run away, reset, and be back killing you before your wells have even reached the 20 second mark.

Alot of aspects of Thief need to be rethinked, but D/P needs to simply be nerfed. There is no reason for Heartseeker to be so strong, nor why it should grant invisibility for constant backstab bursting, nor why it should have so much damage mitigation for constant blindness and instant-easy stomping.

Stealth IS a problem and example from other games is a proof. All thieves should think about that. Becouse as someone already mentioned, in some cases the inability to balance stealth properly means that at some point everything else from your arsenal will be nerfed to the ground. I mean, pretty much every MMO I played which contained a stealth based class had that class overpowered at early stages of game’s life and then gradually nerfed due to playerbase outcry.

As a thief I… Actually miss my stealthless assassin from the original Guild Wars. It felt way more challenging and fun that way.

Hexes, enchantments, stances, customisables combos made the class really fun to me but it’s the problem here.

Since we can’t customise our skillbar anymore, no more hexes, enchantments, and considering we have a choice between a few utilities which anyway have ridiculously long cooldowns making them useless on shorter fights, Anet had to find a way to make the thief class viable with so few skills, and they chose to make him way too reliant on the stealth mechanic.

It really feels like a regression to me, but unless they give more possibilites to our thieves to survive, by giving them back their stances, hexes and enchantments, stealth will remain in the game.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Flashing_Blades
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Critical_Defenses
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shadow_Form_%28PvP%29

Those example are not meant to say that GW1 was way better when it comes to skills, even if I think that it’s the case, but to show how assassins could avoid the stealth mechanic in Guild Wars, while still having some utilities to survive.

So yeah, I would gladly trade my stealth against those kind of abilities but it will never happen, of course, and we are basically stuck with that boring invisible mechanic.

Awe.1096:

Stealth IS a problem and example from other games is a proof. All thieves should think about that. Becouse as someone already mentioned, in some cases the inability to balance stealth properly means that at some point everything else from your arsenal will be nerfed to the ground. I mean, pretty much every MMO I played which contained a stealth based class had that class overpowered at early stages of game’s life and then gradually nerfed due to playerbase outcry.

Not true in many cases.
In WoW, they didn’t hate stealth, but the stunlock.
In SWTOR, the most successful assassins were out of stealth assassins ( DPS gear/Tank Build).
In RIFT, they surprisingly buffed rogues by 50%. FIFTY PERCENT. They were weak even with permanent stealth. However, 50% is too much, which made me leave the game right after seeing the incompetence of Balancing. We never had issues with stealth though.

This is the first game I see where people keep complaining about stealth.

Azraeel.1238:

Awe.1096:

Stealth IS a problem and example from other games is a proof. All thieves should think about that. Becouse as someone already mentioned, in some cases the inability to balance stealth properly means that at some point everything else from your arsenal will be nerfed to the ground. I mean, pretty much every MMO I played which contained a stealth based class had that class overpowered at early stages of game’s life and then gradually nerfed due to playerbase outcry.

Not true in many cases.
In WoW, they didn’t hate stealth, but the stunlock.
In SWTOR, the most successful assassins were out of stealth assassins ( DPS gear/Tank Build).
In RIFT, they surprisingly buffed rogues by 50%. FIFTY PERCENT. They were weak even with permanent stealth. However, 50% is too much, which made me leave the game right after seeing the incompetence of Balancing. We never had issues with stealth though.

This is the first game I see where people keep complaining about stealth.

In WoW people did not complain about stealth? At early stages of the game when there were no battlegrounds or arenas there was only world PvP. And rogues were kings in that. Yeah, stunlocks were nasty but this was only overpowering when combined with stealth. Same as burst. People rolled rogues in masses after they realized what they could do in PvP.

As for SWTOR, dont you remember about the massive whines on backstab (or whatever the skill was called) operatives/scoundrels? This was nerfed hard in about a month after game release so go figure.

I cant say about Rift since I never PvP-ed in that game.

This is the first game in which you see people complaining about stealth? Well I cant deny that it is for you. But I would argue hard against this to actually be the case.

Awe.1096:

Azraeel.1238:

Awe.1096:

Stealth IS a problem and example from other games is a proof. All thieves should think about that. Becouse as someone already mentioned, in some cases the inability to balance stealth properly means that at some point everything else from your arsenal will be nerfed to the ground. I mean, pretty much every MMO I played which contained a stealth based class had that class overpowered at early stages of game’s life and then gradually nerfed due to playerbase outcry.

Not true in many cases.
In WoW, they didn’t hate stealth, but the stunlock.
In SWTOR, the most successful assassins were out of stealth assassins ( DPS gear/Tank Build).
In RIFT, they surprisingly buffed rogues by 50%. FIFTY PERCENT. They were weak even with permanent stealth. However, 50% is too much, which made me leave the game right after seeing the incompetence of Balancing. We never had issues with stealth though.

This is the first game I see where people keep complaining about stealth.

In WoW people did not complain about stealth? At early stages of the game when there were no battlegrounds or arenas there was only world PvP. And rogues were kings in that. Yeah, stunlocks were nasty but this was only overpowering when combined with stealth. Same as burst. People rolled rogues in masses after they realized what they could do in PvP.

As for SWTOR, dont you remember about the massive whines on backstab (or whatever the skill was called) operatives/scoundrels? This was nerfed hard in about a month after game release so go figure.

I cant say about Rift since I never PvP-ed in that game.

This is the first game in which you see people complaining about stealth? Well I cant deny that it is for you. But I would argue hard against this to actually be the case.

Well technically in WoW when Rogues first came out, I heard they were able to tank bosses because of their high agility, which is why they got nerfed. Then there was the stunlock. Stealth and burst weren’t the issue. Being burst down while sitting there doing nothing because you were stunlocked was quite annoying. When diminishing returns were introduced to counter the stunlock, Rogues were fine even with permanent stealth.
Stun Lock Source

In SWTOR same thing, operatives damage was nerfed not because of stealth, but because they were able to stun you then burst you down. The nerf came few months after the game was released, not in the first month.

People usually get annoyed by being killed while stunned, not because they failed to counter a stealthed oponent.