Guild Wars 2

Before you start telling me how much you love this mechanic, please understand that I too love the mechanic, but it just doesn’t work. People don’t want to learn how to counter it and stealth have always been called OP in every single MMO that implemented it. ArenaNet didn’t implement Stealth in Guild Wars because they meant it would be impossible to balance a game with stealth. The Assassin and how that profession work was a much smarter approach and something that worked.

This is copied directly from the GW wiki:
The Assassin walks the shadows, a deadly viper ready to strike at the heart when the enemy least expects it, nowhere and everywhere all at once. Assassins are masters of their chosen weapon, the dagger, and are expert at inflicting Critical Strikes that cause massive damage. The Assassin is trained to efficiently link attacks together in a chain that does not give the enemy a chance to hit back. They have mastered the ability to move as shadows—Assassins wear only lightweight armor and prefer to avoid damage by not being there when the enemy’s strike lands. Their other magical skills include Hexes that lower the target’s defenses and protect the Assassin from harm.

I would much rather have that kind of profession with tons of shadowsteps and quick hits than stealth. And as we already can see, they’ve nerfed us patch after patch, and now they’ve really started to destroy our core mechanic – so why not just remove it and buff us in other ways….

geiir…if they do this they will buff the heck out of our evades and mobility and make us harder to kill even visible. backstab wont need invis…. they will just find something else to complain about. have to just fight fire with fire. they want us to be the worst at zergs and mediocre at best in roaming? thats just silly. how about we are horrible at roaming but the kings of zerg? oh wait then they would complain about that. soon as FS LS came out that was the new flavor of hate. it wont change. i think this is jsut a bad idea and fueling their fire to the next thing

They won’t remove stealth and asking them to do so is kitten. They have spent time and resources on this mechanic and have continued to do so. I understand your being up the assassin as a “would like this better” idea but the thief is not the assassin and this is not Guild Wars 1. To go a long with a common ideal in most complaint threads, you need to adapt. Just like thieves adapting to mechanic changes every patch…every one needs to adapt to stealth.

Geiir.7603:

Before you start telling me how much you love this mechanic, please understand that I too love the mechanic, but it just doesn’t work. People don’t want to learn how to counter it and stealth have always been called OP in every single MMO that implemented it. ArenaNet didn’t implement Stealth in Guild Wars because they meant it would be impossible to balance a game with stealth. The Assassin and how that profession work was a much smarter approach and something that worked.

This is copied directly from the GW wiki:
The Assassin walks the shadows, a deadly viper ready to strike at the heart when the enemy least expects it, nowhere and everywhere all at once. Assassins are masters of their chosen weapon, the dagger, and are expert at inflicting Critical Strikes that cause massive damage. The Assassin is trained to efficiently link attacks together in a chain that does not give the enemy a chance to hit back. They have mastered the ability to move as shadows—Assassins wear only lightweight armor and prefer to avoid damage by not being there when the enemy’s strike lands. Their other magical skills include Hexes that lower the target’s defenses and protect the Assassin from harm.

I would much rather have that kind of profession with tons of shadowsteps and quick hits than stealth. And as we already can see, they’ve nerfed us patch after patch, and now they’ve really started to destroy our core mechanic – so why not just remove it and buff us in other ways….

Removing stealth is never going happen in this game, you might as just accept this fact and rather then posting pointless suggestions that will never get implemented, just focus on the things that we need right now, and what “they say” we are going get like higher mobility, which I am really excited for, even if it just reducing the cool downs on some of our more mobile utility’s

I was worried about the stealth traps just as much as the rest of you, but in fact it was not nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be, so what if that 1% or 2% of the wvw’ers that are roaming at the time actually wast (because in fact it is a wast) a trap just to one kitten one thief (because you know they can’t/don’t have the skill to actually beat you with out one, hence the reason they are carrying it in the first place) it’s just so hilarious in my opinion I was fighting a ranger that was clearly being out classed by me the other day, and thought it was just the best idea to bust one of these traps down so they could get some easy kills, well I will tell you what, I swapped to d/p (main is d/d) and just trolled him with head shot on that last second of the trap being set, anyways, kinda off topic, stealth is not going any where, just learn to live with that fact, if you don’t like stealth in gw2 try rolling another profession, or find a new game in the mean time (because you know gw2 is free and you can ALWAYS come back to it at some point whenever you want)

savints.6281:

Geiir.7603:

Before you start telling me how much you love this mechanic, please understand that I too love the mechanic, but it just doesn’t work. People don’t want to learn how to counter it and stealth have always been called OP in every single MMO that implemented it. ArenaNet didn’t implement Stealth in Guild Wars because they meant it would be impossible to balance a game with stealth. The Assassin and how that profession work was a much smarter approach and something that worked.

This is copied directly from the GW wiki:
The Assassin walks the shadows, a deadly viper ready to strike at the heart when the enemy least expects it, nowhere and everywhere all at once. Assassins are masters of their chosen weapon, the dagger, and are expert at inflicting Critical Strikes that cause massive damage. The Assassin is trained to efficiently link attacks together in a chain that does not give the enemy a chance to hit back. They have mastered the ability to move as shadows—Assassins wear only lightweight armor and prefer to avoid damage by not being there when the enemy’s strike lands. Their other magical skills include Hexes that lower the target’s defenses and protect the Assassin from harm.

I would much rather have that kind of profession with tons of shadowsteps and quick hits than stealth. And as we already can see, they’ve nerfed us patch after patch, and now they’ve really started to destroy our core mechanic – so why not just remove it and buff us in other ways….

Removing stealth is never going happen in this game, you might as just accept this fact and rather then posting pointless suggestions that will never get implemented, just focus on the things that we need right now, and what “they say” we are going get like higher mobility, which I am really excited for, even if it just reducing the cool downs on some of our more mobile utility’s

I was worried about the stealth traps just as much as the rest of you, but in fact it was not nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be, so what if that 1% or 2% of the wvw’ers that are roaming at the time actually wast (because in fact it is a wast) a trap just to one kitten one thief (because you know they can’t/don’t have the skill to actually beat you with out one, hence the reason they are carrying it in the first place) it’s just so hilarious in my opinion I was fighting a ranger that was clearly being out classed by me the other day, and thought it was just the best idea to bust one of these traps down so they could get some easy kills, well I will tell you what, I swapped to d/p (main is d/d) and just trolled him with head shot on that last second of the trap being set, anyways, kinda off topic, stealth is not going any where, just learn to live with that fact, if you don’t like stealth in gw2 try rolling another profession, or find a new game in the mean time (because you know gw2 is free and you can ALWAYS come back to it at some point whenever you want)

they are worse than expected….. its not really fair to say well they arent affecting people that much bc they are not used like every 2 mins everywhere right now….but when they are used you are almost assuredly dead :P. they are horrible. you could say that mesmer immortal build is weak “when ur not fighting it” but when you fight it your as good as dead….i mean that doesnt make much sense. you have to look at in effect. not if in effect.

Travlane.5948:

savints.6281:

Geiir.7603:

Before you start telling me how much you love this mechanic, please understand that I too love the mechanic, but it just doesn’t work. People don’t want to learn how to counter it and stealth have always been called OP in every single MMO that implemented it. ArenaNet didn’t implement Stealth in Guild Wars because they meant it would be impossible to balance a game with stealth. The Assassin and how that profession work was a much smarter approach and something that worked.

This is copied directly from the GW wiki:
The Assassin walks the shadows, a deadly viper ready to strike at the heart when the enemy least expects it, nowhere and everywhere all at once. Assassins are masters of their chosen weapon, the dagger, and are expert at inflicting Critical Strikes that cause massive damage. The Assassin is trained to efficiently link attacks together in a chain that does not give the enemy a chance to hit back. They have mastered the ability to move as shadows—Assassins wear only lightweight armor and prefer to avoid damage by not being there when the enemy’s strike lands. Their other magical skills include Hexes that lower the target’s defenses and protect the Assassin from harm.

I would much rather have that kind of profession with tons of shadowsteps and quick hits than stealth. And as we already can see, they’ve nerfed us patch after patch, and now they’ve really started to destroy our core mechanic – so why not just remove it and buff us in other ways….

Removing stealth is never going happen in this game, you might as just accept this fact and rather then posting pointless suggestions that will never get implemented, just focus on the things that we need right now, and what “they say” we are going get like higher mobility, which I am really excited for, even if it just reducing the cool downs on some of our more mobile utility’s

I was worried about the stealth traps just as much as the rest of you, but in fact it was not nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be, so what if that 1% or 2% of the wvw’ers that are roaming at the time actually wast (because in fact it is a wast) a trap just to one kitten one thief (because you know they can’t/don’t have the skill to actually beat you with out one, hence the reason they are carrying it in the first place) it’s just so hilarious in my opinion I was fighting a ranger that was clearly being out classed by me the other day, and thought it was just the best idea to bust one of these traps down so they could get some easy kills, well I will tell you what, I swapped to d/p (main is d/d) and just trolled him with head shot on that last second of the trap being set, anyways, kinda off topic, stealth is not going any where, just learn to live with that fact, if you don’t like stealth in gw2 try rolling another profession, or find a new game in the mean time (because you know gw2 is free and you can ALWAYS come back to it at some point whenever you want)

they are worse than expected….. its not really fair to say well they arent affecting people that much bc they are not used like every 2 mins everywhere right now….but when they are used you are almost assuredly dead :P. they are horrible. you could say that mesmer immortal build is weak “when ur not fighting it” but when you fight it your as good as dead….i mean that doesnt make much sense. you have to look at in effect. not if in effect.

I do player on a lower tier server, so that might have something to do with it, but I don’t see these traps being used, it’s pretty rare.

So maybe my opinion them is a little jaded compared to the people that play on t1 and t2, if so, then I really don’t have that much experience with them as the rest, saying that everyone and there grandma is running with these traps, and they are placed every 5 feet in wvw… it’s just hard to make an honest judgment on the matter.

savints.6281:

Travlane.5948:

savints.6281:

Geiir.7603:

Before you start telling me how much you love this mechanic, please understand that I too love the mechanic, but it just doesn’t work. People don’t want to learn how to counter it and stealth have always been called OP in every single MMO that implemented it. ArenaNet didn’t implement Stealth in Guild Wars because they meant it would be impossible to balance a game with stealth. The Assassin and how that profession work was a much smarter approach and something that worked.

This is copied directly from the GW wiki:
The Assassin walks the shadows, a deadly viper ready to strike at the heart when the enemy least expects it, nowhere and everywhere all at once. Assassins are masters of their chosen weapon, the dagger, and are expert at inflicting Critical Strikes that cause massive damage. The Assassin is trained to efficiently link attacks together in a chain that does not give the enemy a chance to hit back. They have mastered the ability to move as shadows—Assassins wear only lightweight armor and prefer to avoid damage by not being there when the enemy’s strike lands. Their other magical skills include Hexes that lower the target’s defenses and protect the Assassin from harm.

I would much rather have that kind of profession with tons of shadowsteps and quick hits than stealth. And as we already can see, they’ve nerfed us patch after patch, and now they’ve really started to destroy our core mechanic – so why not just remove it and buff us in other ways….

Removing stealth is never going happen in this game, you might as just accept this fact and rather then posting pointless suggestions that will never get implemented, just focus on the things that we need right now, and what “they say” we are going get like higher mobility, which I am really excited for, even if it just reducing the cool downs on some of our more mobile utility’s

I was worried about the stealth traps just as much as the rest of you, but in fact it was not nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be, so what if that 1% or 2% of the wvw’ers that are roaming at the time actually wast (because in fact it is a wast) a trap just to one kitten one thief (because you know they can’t/don’t have the skill to actually beat you with out one, hence the reason they are carrying it in the first place) it’s just so hilarious in my opinion I was fighting a ranger that was clearly being out classed by me the other day, and thought it was just the best idea to bust one of these traps down so they could get some easy kills, well I will tell you what, I swapped to d/p (main is d/d) and just trolled him with head shot on that last second of the trap being set, anyways, kinda off topic, stealth is not going any where, just learn to live with that fact, if you don’t like stealth in gw2 try rolling another profession, or find a new game in the mean time (because you know gw2 is free and you can ALWAYS come back to it at some point whenever you want)

they are worse than expected….. its not really fair to say well they arent affecting people that much bc they are not used like every 2 mins everywhere right now….but when they are used you are almost assuredly dead :P. they are horrible. you could say that mesmer immortal build is weak “when ur not fighting it” but when you fight it your as good as dead….i mean that doesnt make much sense. you have to look at in effect. not if in effect.

I do player on a lower tier server, so that might have something to do with it, but I don’t see these traps being used, it’s pretty rare.

So maybe my opinion them is a little jaded compared to the people that play on t1 and t2, if so, then I really don’t have that much experience with them as the rest, saying that everyone and there grandma is running with these traps, and they are placed every 5 feet in wvw… it’s just hard to make a honest judgment on the matter.

I play on Blackgate and I have yet to see one. I’m a fairly active roamer and the only ones I’v seen are my groups. I don’t think people have found ways to utilize them yet.

Zikory.6871:

savints.6281:

Travlane.5948:

savints.6281:

Geiir.7603:

Before you start telling me how much you love this mechanic, please understand that I too love the mechanic, but it just doesn’t work. People don’t want to learn how to counter it and stealth have always been called OP in every single MMO that implemented it. ArenaNet didn’t implement Stealth in Guild Wars because they meant it would be impossible to balance a game with stealth. The Assassin and how that profession work was a much smarter approach and something that worked.

This is copied directly from the GW wiki:
The Assassin walks the shadows, a deadly viper ready to strike at the heart when the enemy least expects it, nowhere and everywhere all at once. Assassins are masters of their chosen weapon, the dagger, and are expert at inflicting Critical Strikes that cause massive damage. The Assassin is trained to efficiently link attacks together in a chain that does not give the enemy a chance to hit back. They have mastered the ability to move as shadows—Assassins wear only lightweight armor and prefer to avoid damage by not being there when the enemy’s strike lands. Their other magical skills include Hexes that lower the target’s defenses and protect the Assassin from harm.

I would much rather have that kind of profession with tons of shadowsteps and quick hits than stealth. And as we already can see, they’ve nerfed us patch after patch, and now they’ve really started to destroy our core mechanic – so why not just remove it and buff us in other ways….

Removing stealth is never going happen in this game, you might as just accept this fact and rather then posting pointless suggestions that will never get implemented, just focus on the things that we need right now, and what “they say” we are going get like higher mobility, which I am really excited for, even if it just reducing the cool downs on some of our more mobile utility’s

I was worried about the stealth traps just as much as the rest of you, but in fact it was not nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be, so what if that 1% or 2% of the wvw’ers that are roaming at the time actually wast (because in fact it is a wast) a trap just to one kitten one thief (because you know they can’t/don’t have the skill to actually beat you with out one, hence the reason they are carrying it in the first place) it’s just so hilarious in my opinion I was fighting a ranger that was clearly being out classed by me the other day, and thought it was just the best idea to bust one of these traps down so they could get some easy kills, well I will tell you what, I swapped to d/p (main is d/d) and just trolled him with head shot on that last second of the trap being set, anyways, kinda off topic, stealth is not going any where, just learn to live with that fact, if you don’t like stealth in gw2 try rolling another profession, or find a new game in the mean time (because you know gw2 is free and you can ALWAYS come back to it at some point whenever you want)

they are worse than expected….. its not really fair to say well they arent affecting people that much bc they are not used like every 2 mins everywhere right now….but when they are used you are almost assuredly dead :P. they are horrible. you could say that mesmer immortal build is weak “when ur not fighting it” but when you fight it your as good as dead….i mean that doesnt make much sense. you have to look at in effect. not if in effect.

I do player on a lower tier server, so that might have something to do with it, but I don’t see these traps being used, it’s pretty rare.

So maybe my opinion them is a little jaded compared to the people that play on t1 and t2, if so, then I really don’t have that much experience with them as the rest, saying that everyone and there grandma is running with these traps, and they are placed every 5 feet in wvw… it’s just hard to make a honest judgment on the matter.

I play on Blackgate and I have yet to see one. I’m a fairly active roamer and the only ones I’v seen are my groups. I don’t think people have found ways to utilize them yet.

So it’s just your normal thief QQ then, we really have to give it a few weeks I am guessing, thanks for the info though.

Zikory.6871:

They won’t remove stealth and asking them to do so is kitten. They have spent time and resources on this mechanic and have continued to do so.

That’s not really an argument, it’s just a typical cognitive bias to think that something is worth continuing because you have spent time and effort on it.
Not that I think stealth should be removed. It’s effective tool against the omnipotence of zergs.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Zikory.6871:

They won’t remove stealth and asking them to do so is kitten. They have spent time and resources on this mechanic and have continued to do so.

That’s not really an argument, it’s just a typical cognitive bias to think that something is worth continuing because you have spent time and effort on it.
Not that I think stealth should be removed. It’s effective tool against the omnipotence of zergs.

Thats true, My statement is very generic. To make more of a argument would be to look at everything it would take to removed stealth. All but the deadly arts trait lines are effected by stealth along with 6 skills that would have to be reworked. Also how smoke fields interact with blast and leap finishers would also have to be reworked. Not to mention Mesmers, Rangers, and engineers have access to at least 1 stealth mechanic.

They would have to remake the whole thief class to remove stealth, which would probably take more time and resources then it would take to adjust the mechanic its self.

EDIT: To add not like these make a difference but the spy kits and stealth wells in EBJP. These aren’t thief specific but the thread is stating to remove stealth so these would be under that category.

Zikory.6871:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Zikory.6871:

They won’t remove stealth and asking them to do so is kitten. They have spent time and resources on this mechanic and have continued to do so.

That’s not really an argument, it’s just a typical cognitive bias to think that something is worth continuing because you have spent time and effort on it.
Not that I think stealth should be removed. It’s effective tool against the omnipotence of zergs.

Thats true, My statement is very generic. To make more of a argument would be to look at everything it would take to removed stealth. All but the deadly arts trait lines are effected by stealth along with 6 skills that would have to be reworked. Also how smoke fields interact with blast and leap finishers would also have to be reworked. Not to mention Mesmers, Rangers, and engineers have access to at least 1 stealth mechanic.

They would have to remake the whole thief class to remove stealth, which would probably take more time and resources then it would take to adjust the mechanic its self.

+1 For logic.

savints.6281:

Travlane.5948:

savints.6281:

Geiir.7603:

Before you start telling me how much you love this mechanic, please understand that I too love the mechanic, but it just doesn’t work. People don’t want to learn how to counter it and stealth have always been called OP in every single MMO that implemented it. ArenaNet didn’t implement Stealth in Guild Wars because they meant it would be impossible to balance a game with stealth. The Assassin and how that profession work was a much smarter approach and something that worked.

This is copied directly from the GW wiki:
The Assassin walks the shadows, a deadly viper ready to strike at the heart when the enemy least expects it, nowhere and everywhere all at once. Assassins are masters of their chosen weapon, the dagger, and are expert at inflicting Critical Strikes that cause massive damage. The Assassin is trained to efficiently link attacks together in a chain that does not give the enemy a chance to hit back. They have mastered the ability to move as shadows—Assassins wear only lightweight armor and prefer to avoid damage by not being there when the enemy’s strike lands. Their other magical skills include Hexes that lower the target’s defenses and protect the Assassin from harm.

I would much rather have that kind of profession with tons of shadowsteps and quick hits than stealth. And as we already can see, they’ve nerfed us patch after patch, and now they’ve really started to destroy our core mechanic – so why not just remove it and buff us in other ways….

Removing stealth is never going happen in this game, you might as just accept this fact and rather then posting pointless suggestions that will never get implemented, just focus on the things that we need right now, and what “they say” we are going get like higher mobility, which I am really excited for, even if it just reducing the cool downs on some of our more mobile utility’s

I was worried about the stealth traps just as much as the rest of you, but in fact it was not nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be, so what if that 1% or 2% of the wvw’ers that are roaming at the time actually wast (because in fact it is a wast) a trap just to one kitten one thief (because you know they can’t/don’t have the skill to actually beat you with out one, hence the reason they are carrying it in the first place) it’s just so hilarious in my opinion I was fighting a ranger that was clearly being out classed by me the other day, and thought it was just the best idea to bust one of these traps down so they could get some easy kills, well I will tell you what, I swapped to d/p (main is d/d) and just trolled him with head shot on that last second of the trap being set, anyways, kinda off topic, stealth is not going any where, just learn to live with that fact, if you don’t like stealth in gw2 try rolling another profession, or find a new game in the mean time (because you know gw2 is free and you can ALWAYS come back to it at some point whenever you want)

they are worse than expected….. its not really fair to say well they arent affecting people that much bc they are not used like every 2 mins everywhere right now….but when they are used you are almost assuredly dead :P. they are horrible. you could say that mesmer immortal build is weak “when ur not fighting it” but when you fight it your as good as dead….i mean that doesnt make much sense. you have to look at in effect. not if in effect.

I do player on a lower tier server, so that might have something to do with it, but I don’t see these traps being used, it’s pretty rare.

So maybe my opinion them is a little jaded compared to the people that play on t1 and t2, if so, then I really don’t have that much experience with them as the rest, saying that everyone and there grandma is running with these traps, and they are placed every 5 feet in wvw… it’s just hard to make an honest judgment on the matter.

i get what ur saying but let me ….“rephrase” this to put it into perspective in the way im saying it.

what if….there was a trap that said this:

“decrease targets chance to survive / escape / win by 90%”

but they cost 1 gold each……….would that be fair or ok? i mean it costs 1 gold each… so should that be ok as long as the price is high enough?

what if one of these for 15 badges:

“target cant summon phantasms/clones for 30 secs”
“target cant change elements for 30 seconds”
“target cannot change weapons or use adrenal skills for 30 secs”
“target cannot use a bow for 30 seconds”

i mean if they costs 15 badges….they should make one for each class. would that be ok in your opinion? :P even if they arent widely used yet?

Geiir.7603:

…called OP in every single MMO that implemented it…

I’m super glad you chose the correct phrasing. It’s been CALLED OP because bad players don’t like it. It can be frustrating when you don’t know what you’re doing for someone to appear out of thin air and kill you. When you refuse to learn the game, and it keeps killing you over and over and over again, I’m sure it becomes infuriating. Luckily, we’re under no responsibility to cater to bad players whims.

When you know what you’re doing however, it’s perfectly fair.

great players gravitate to play the harder builds…..this is bc they are usually more rewarding….. ranger….warrior…. even perhap engineer are made for starter lvl up i think….memser ele thief are most rewarding. does that mean the others cant contend? absolutely not! so there has to be a place for new players and a place for advanced….the problem is there is no clear line…..tpvp is for advanced and pve is for everyone….but wvw/spvp are for what? and in spvp/wvw is 90% of the complainers…… people in tpvp dont complain about invis as much…

wierd that i just thought of this. wish i had pointed it out much sooner

evilapprentice.6379:

Geiir.7603:

…called OP in every single MMO that implemented it…

I’m super glad you chose the correct phrasing. It’s been CALLED OP because bad players don’t like it. It can be frustrating when you don’t know what you’re doing for someone to appear out of thin air and kill you. When you refuse to learn the game, and it keeps killing you over and over and over again, I’m sure it becomes infuriating. Luckily, we’re under no responsibility to cater to bad players whims.

When you know what you’re doing however, it’s perfectly fair.

We as players are not responsible for catering to bad players but sadly Anet is. Casual players make up a vast majority of the player base. Anet is a business, they will, to a point, cater to “bad” players to keep them playing. If anyone played WoW since vanilla you know what I’m talking about. Even though a very small amount of the player base even come to these forums, the more complaint threads there are, the more aware of a “issue” anet becomes.

Travlane.5948:

great players gravitate to play the harder builds…..this is bc they are usually more rewarding….. ranger….warrior…. even perhap engineer are made for starter lvl up i think….memser ele thief are most rewarding. does that mean the others cant contend? absolutely not! so there has to be a place for new players and a place for advanced….the problem is there is no clear line…..tpvp is for advanced and pve is for everyone….but wvw/spvp are for what? and in spvp/wvw is 90% of the complainers…… people in tpvp dont complain about invis as much…

wierd that i just thought of this. wish i had pointed it out much sooner

Funny that you’re one of the complainers, and by all means thief is one of the easier classes to play, it’s pretty much a cake wake of button mashing, but, this is also one of the hardest classes to master I think, you have a lot more to manage and get punished more for messing up, it has a definite learning curve once you reach a cretin point, I will agree that ele and mesmer are two of the harder pick up and play classes though.

I don’t think the traps where a direct hit to thieves at all, but like some have stated, we have to wait and see how they will pan out.

savints.6281:

Travlane.5948:

great players gravitate to play the harder builds…..this is bc they are usually more rewarding….. ranger….warrior…. even perhap engineer are made for starter lvl up i think….memser ele thief are most rewarding. does that mean the others cant contend? absolutely not! so there has to be a place for new players and a place for advanced….the problem is there is no clear line…..tpvp is for advanced and pve is for everyone….but wvw/spvp are for what? and in spvp/wvw is 90% of the complainers…… people in tpvp dont complain about invis as much…

wierd that i just thought of this. wish i had pointed it out much sooner

Funny that you’re one of the complainers, and by all means thief is one of the easier classes to play, it’s pretty much a cake wake of button mashing, but, this is also one of the hardest classes to master I think, you have a lot more to manage and get punished more for messing up, it has a definite learning curve once you reach a cretin point, I will agree that ele and mesmer are two of the harder pick up and play classes though.

I don’t think the traps where a direct hit to thieves at all, but like some have stated, we have to wait and see how they will pan out.

ok a few things. i dont complain…. i can stop an average size zerg…BY MYSELF with supply traps…and have a 99.999999% chance of killing a thief when i drop stealth traps. stealth traps really dont do much in zergs as most thieves use bows or DB etc in zergs and usually just invis to escape or withdraw/pull back. so it is a direct nerf to thieves. the only practical use of stealth traps are for roamers! if ur in t2 ill challnge you to a fight under the precedence that i have to beat you with over 75% hp and use a stealth trap. ill be 25g per match and we will see :P…. and i can confidently say that thief is one of the HARDEST classes to master…..i think ele is arguable first….or thief….but an ele is slightly more formulaic as they have similar combos and switch same element orders. thief generally has to react more bc lack of defense heals and boons . when a thief is mastered it seems incredible hard to beat and a good player usually ends up stalemating them at best. yet i have met thiefs i just destroy in moments…..and ones that have legendaries or 100% map stars or etc….(basically not nubs)

remove stealth is an simple request but , removing stealth would mean :
re-design all weapon skills, to increase damage, in compensation of stealth attack bonus
re-assign base stats for thief, to increase base survaivability
re-work 70% of traits
and after all this, you will have a new clas, that need balanced , but why… just cause 2-3% of population complain?

I see that some of you did get me wrong; I love stealth and the way it works. But for some reason other players doesn’t think so. Newbies and baddies will keep complaining until we’re nerfed near useless – and Anet will keep nerfing because they want this game to be noob friendly (funny since they also want it to be an esport). I would much rather have an Assassin style profession than a useless profession.

I see a lot of you took up the never ending discussion of the new trap, and honestly, I hate it. They’ve actually implemented a utility that directly affects one class more than others. It actually make an entire trait line useless, and it effects a core mechanic of a profession. To make it fair they could add a trap that would make the ranger pet do nothing or the guardian unable to apply boons for 30 seconds? Then we are starting to talk about fair. But it’s just stupid and I really think they should remove this.

I know that they will probably never remove stealth, but I was sort of just giving my two cents and see what the community think about it. The devs aren’t exactly known to show them self in the thief forums anyway..

I LOVE this train of thought: “Only newbies and baddies complain about stealth, because you know, Stealth is perfectly fine, it’s everyone else that needs to l2p.”

I would either remove stealth, or make it take skill/strategy/forethought. As in, make it so you move 66% slower while in stealth, no damage mitigation, no passive cleansing, no healing, but the stealth would be permanent.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I LOVE this train of thought: “Only newbies and baddies complain about stealth, because you know, Stealth is perfectly fine, it’s everyone else that needs to l2p.”

I’m glad you love it, because it’s true.

If you doubt it, ask any TPvPer how they could possibly deal with with this almighty brokenness that is stealth. I’m sure they’ll extol for hours how it’s a constant struggle to keep the 5 thief teams from dominating the top of the leaderboards with their effortless 2 spam and lolskiddaddle whenever they start losing. Heck, I’m surprised people who TPvP play anything other than thief.

Just a few notes to cut you off in advance.
WvW is classified as a PvE mode for a reason – balance is designed around everyone having access to the exact same gear. If you want a game that designs around gear imbalances, go play a gear treadmill MMO.
Beating hotjoin zerglings isn’t a hard thing to do. You use hotjoin to learn – if you can’t be bothered, don’t come and cry on the boards. Or do, you’ll have plenty of company.

Stealth wouldn’t be nearly as bad if it didn’t have such enormous damage mitigation. Your passive aggressive post proves literally nothing, nor does it provide any valid point other than “NOU!”

I cannot kill a good Stealth based Thief with conditions. They are practically immune to them.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Stealth wouldn’t be nearly as bad if it didn’t have such enormous damage mitigation. Your passive aggressive post proves literally nothing, nor does it provide any valid point other than “NOU!”

I cannot kill a good Stealth based Thief with conditions. They are practically immune to them.

Welcome to hard counters.
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=17735942

I apologize if you view people pointing out that you’re wrong (with fun witticisms and just a hint of sarcasm) as “passive agressive” but I was actually being “plain o’l aggressive”. You’re obviously a thief troll (with an undeservedly high opinion of itself, apparently.)

You balance around skill and the idea that everyone has the same access to gear – while that can theoretically happen anywhere, the only place it’s guaranteed to happen is in TPvP when organized teams face off. Those players don’t seem to have a problem with stealth (in fact, most rate thief somewhere toward the middle in effectiveness), therefore stealth isn’t a problem.

The game isn’t balanced for 1v1 duels. If that was the case, Bunkers would broken.
If you have a problem with it, it’s an indication of an issue on your end.

Stealth is not supposed to be a hard counter for Conditions when it is also a hard counter for other forms of damage as well. Your points are nonsense, and I had made no point that it was OP in 1v1s alone. If my Deathshroud passively removed conditions, healed me, and removed targeting, then regenerated, what would that be hard countering?

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Stealth is not supposed to be a hard counter for Conditions when it is also a hard counter for other forms of damage as well. Your points are nonsense, and I had made no point that it was OP in 1v1s alone. If my Deathshroud passively removed conditions, healed me, and removed targeting, then regenerated, what would that be hard countering?

Please, just learn to play. Go find a TPvP team and practice. Play some games, learn some new tricks, and have some fun. There’s literally nothing else I can do for you right now, as your rather entrenched in your ridiculous ideas.

Yet another wonderful Thief player saying “L2P” when he can’t provide valid points/arguments. Stealth has enormous damage mitigation, you cannot argue that.

OP

Great Post!

I also been advocating for everything u have mentioned, mostly for Gw1 Assassin class who never was never in need of stealth, yet till this day; their ‘shadows’ can take out thief stealth ‘with no sweat’.

Why didn’t Arenanet follow their design and mechanics for the thief class, is questionable and disputable..

Having a thief class using shadows instead of stealth, would be a major ‘ice-breaker’, for balancing this class in wvw and spvp.

Would also help remove and relieve the tensions and frustrations of the core balance mechanics.

I think the reason we have stealth is shadowsteps lack the precision needed to cope with the highly mobile combat in Guild Wars 2. Shadowstepping worked in Guild Wars because it was easy to target someone in the back row from a top down perspective, everyone pretty much stood still or moved rather slowly. Because Guild Wars 2 is much faster with more hectic battles, you can’t methodically target the opponent you want as easily, with makes shadowsteps ineffective at their original purpose, bypassing the enemy line, so they replaced shadowsteps with a much more versatile ability. Stealth lets you get to your back row target and get out like the old shadowsteps, without having the high chance of targetting the wrong thing.

evilapprentice.6379:

If you doubt it, ask any TPvPer how they could possibly deal with with this almighty brokenness that is stealth. I’m sure they’ll extol for hours how it’s a constant struggle to keep the 5 thief teams from dominating the top of the leaderboards with their effortless 2 spam and lolskiddaddle whenever they start losing. Heck, I’m surprised people who TPvP play anything other than thief.

There is one major flaw in your argument here, and it has everything to do with the game-mode. Stealth is weak in TPvP for 3 reasons:
1. You cannot capture a point while in stealth, in a game-mode based around point-capture
2. Major fights take place on points, meaning I know my enemy, even when stealthed, is in a certain area. I know to hack at the air, or lay down an aoe in that small area, and I am probably hitting. If he is not there, then I don’t care because I am capping a point and he is running.
3. Time is everything, if the thief wants to stealth/run to reset the fight, rather than fight and die, his team is losing points the entire time. By not being productive, he is hurting his team.

In WvW, there isn’t the point-capture mechanic. Thieves don’t bring anything game-breaking to the “capture keeps/castles” side of things, but they are game-breaking in the “don’t get ganked from out of nowhere while trying to do anything” perspective. This is because, in WvW:
1. Point control doesn’t matter, so the thief go literally anywhere. Some places are more strategic, but he doesn’t have to remain in a small area. The means that stealth is an automatic “oh-crap” button that nearly guarantees survival in any situation. This means that thief can spec for very high single-target burst and still be supremely survivable while roaming.
2. Thief is an incredibly mobile class (nearly the most mobile) so few classes can outrun or choose not to fight a thief when they know that the fight is going to work against them, take forever, or generally be unfun.
3. Time doesn’t really matter all that much. If a thief wants to reset a million times until your finally screw up, its not hurting his server/team. Thus, he can troll constantly.

So we ask ourselves, why don’t people complain about mesmer/ranger/ele stealth. Mesmer stealth isn’t a problem because its a very minor utility used primarily for escape or setup (maybe charging a mantra). Contrast this with the nearly spammable stealth of the thief, making it a do-it-all tool rather than a very specific use tool. Sure, mesmer illusions can be annoying to fight against, and are even stronger than the thief 1v1. However, this comes with the trade-off that the mesmer doesn’t have access to an infinite reset button, and will die if you get your buddies. Mesmers also don’t have the final say in which fights happen, so if you find them frustrating, you can move on to something else productive.

So finally, how can we somehow bring thieves in line with other classes in some way, without crippling them completely? There are a few possible fixes:
- Stealth cannot be stacked past 3-4 seconds. You can use it to reposition, or get a little ground, but you can’t BP/HS 3x to get a good 10s of stealth on your skill bar.
- Stealth could be detectable in some way, through either traits, weapon upgrades, or a shift to transparency. Traits/weapon upgrades could make an interesting dynamic of having rangers be important in small groups as thief hunters.
- Re-engage targeting immediately upon ending stealth. This is a large reason why stealth isn’t nearly as powerful in PvE.
-Have stealth drop or shimmer on hits. This decreases the defensive utility a bit, but makes any class able to try and counter stealth with skill by constantly staying on top of the shimmering missile.

Of course, this would have to come with other means of sustain for the thief. Currently thief survivability (regen+condition clears) requires sitting in stealth for a while. I personally think that a thief that wants to stealth and run should do so hobbling to get to safety, at which point they can recover, rather than just sit around nonchalantly recovering. Perhaps including an traited signet-of-malice like ability would make some sense for survival.

remove possibility of perma stealth, always a immune to stealth after each skill who give stealth and the 3 sec immune is a joke push that to 5-6 secondes.

/Sarcasm on/
Yeah is really fun playing vs stealth player, because I know that proove they are skilled.

/Sarcasm off/

if that’s what it takes to stop the nerf streak, i am all for it !
i am kinnda sick to change my playstyle every month or so, just because most players use the same build and because of that, it’s considered OP

i am even afraid to post my latest builds on the forum or show them to my friends…

Oh this thread again. And as always it become ego booster for Thieves spaming learn to play. Funny thing is that I fought with so many bad, unskilled thieves in spvp and in wvw.
I have nothing against stealth because it produce bad, overconfident players who you can defeat easily.
Im not saying all thieves are bad- I met many who could down me with no sweat but thanks to stealth “being op” lots of “pro” rerolled theif to pwn " noobs".

As for stealth traps- is it realy such a big nerf? For my experience I used it once- when i was with another warrior and two thieves pewned us ( one of them was very good- i fought with him/her few times and donwed once), we came back, lured the skilled one to a trap and the fight ended with four of us on the ground.

Same…once stealth trap triggered the thief teleport and outruned us 30 sec and come back to harass an finish us.
Working as intended…L2P blablabla…no advice..
Indeed I have less problem with stealth in sPvP because Thiefs have to force a quick fight otherwise they loose.
It seems that many of skilled thiefs on this forum have not identified this specificity

Stealth isn’t the problem, cloak and dagger is.

The one-two punch of absurdity is:

One: Go invisible (stealth my ass)
Gain multiple buffs of your choice:
* Cloaked in Shadow (Blinds nearby foes)
* Fleet Shadow (Move 50% faster while in stealth)
* Hidden Assassin (Gain might)
* Hidden Killer (100% crit chance while stealthed)
* Shadow Protector (Grant Regeneration to allies you stealth)
* Infusion of Shadow (Gain 2 initiative when using a skill that stealths)
* Patience (Regain initiative faster)
* Shadow’s Embrace (Remove one condition every three seconds)
* Rejuvenation (Regenerate health)

Two: While invisible, use one of the highest damage single attacks in the game (backstab)

…then spend the rest of the day in the forums defending your class, while bragging about how skilled you are.

Ezeriel.9574:

Stealth isn’t the problem, cloak and dagger is.

The one-two punch of absurdity is:

One: Go invisible (stealth my ass)
Gain multiple buffs of your choice:
* Cloaked in Shadow (Blinds nearby foes)
* Fleet Shadow (Move 50% faster while in stealth)
* Hidden Assassin (Gain might)
* Hidden Killer (100% crit chance while stealthed)
* Shadow Protector (Grant Regeneration to allies you stealth)
* Infusion of Shadow (Gain 2 initiative when using a skill that stealths)
* Patience (Regain initiative faster)
* Shadow’s Embrace (Remove one condition every three seconds)
* Rejuvenation (Regenerate health)

Two: While invisible, use one of the highest damage single attacks in the game (backstab)

…then spend the rest of the day in the forums defending your class, while bragging about how skilled you are.

There is also Hidden Thief (Stealing grants you 2 seconds of Stealth). However, that just might fall under initiators of Stealth, which would then extend to skills/utilities.

The list above offers some combinations of choices, but not all of those listed are available at the same time. A 0/30/30/10/0 build should afford you the max combinations of those choices, but what a player chooses also depends on their weapon set.

As the wiki states, “Shadow Arts is a trait line for the thief that focuses on use of stealth.” I’m not sure what people expect it to do other aside from offering Stealth-based benefits.

Also, running away from a fight mitigates damage too. (Ranger, Elementalist, Warrior) I do agree that most professions (and subsequent builds) do not have the ease or the option of “running away”.

It’s just that the Thief gets to add the element of reset with unknown direction/state. Most people do not like fighting a question mark. Stealth most definitely favors a newer, inexperienced player from that standpoint.

Now, I cannot speak for those who come on here and brag about their skill set. I can tell you there is a difference between a skilled Thief and an unskilled one. I have found it’s usually the latter that brags the most often, unfortunately.

Also, Shadow Protector? Um, no thanks. What am I? A nurse? xD

DanH.5879:

if that’s what it takes to stop the nerf streak, i am all for it !
i am kinnda sick to change my playstyle every month or so, just because most players use the same build and because of that, it’s considered OP

i am even afraid to post my latest builds on the forum or show them to my friends…

Lol no….The build isn’t OP because most people use it but rather that most people use it because it’s OP.

they can remove also CC, dodge roll , because to be honest i rarely dodge, cause i consider it OP mechanism

People don’t want to learn how to counter it and stealth have always been called OP in every single MMO that implemented it

false

Geiir.7603:

Before you start telling me how much you love this mechanic, please understand that I too love the mechanic, but it just doesn’t work. People don’t want to learn how to counter it

i stoped reading here ;/

The main issue (as I see it) is not the concept of stealth; but the way ANet has implemented it.

Just look at all the benefits a Thief can get through traits that apply to stealth.

• Cloaked in Shadow (Blinds nearby foes)
  * Fleet Shadow (Move 50% faster while in stealth)
  * Hidden Assassin (Gain might)
  * Hidden Killer (100% crit chance while stealthed)
  * Shadow Protector (Grant targets of your stealth skills Regeneration)
  * Infusion of Shadow (Gain 2 initiative when using a skill that stealths)
  * Patience (Regain initiative faster)
  * Shadow’s Embrace (Remove one condition every three seconds)
  * Shadow’s Rejuvenation (Regenerate health)

From my perspective Stealth should have been a mechanic that would allow for setting up an ‘ambush’ or ‘escape’. But ANet went overboard by attaching so many additional bits of junk through traits. It’s like they couldn’t come up with a more interesting mechanic, so they just went with: “When in doubt, add more (stuff to) stealth”

To me, Stealth could have been a great tactical class-mechanic (for the F# keys) with a limited number of traits to enhance it. Instead they made it a shallow gimmick that’s almost mandatory to use with traits giving out measly little bonuses everywhere.

So personally I think they should have used Stealth for a class-mechanic and used it for F2/F3 with additional effects depending on the type of weapon you had equipped. So using F2 or F3 with a D/D would have a different ‘type’ of Stealth ability compared to using S/D or SB. That would have made Stealth an interesting, dynamic and tactical mechanic.

And in return the Thief could get more base health (same as Ranger) and more mobility. I personally wouldn’t want to see the Stealth mechanic vanish entirely, just reworked into the F2-F3 and merging some of the traits so its function becomes more tactical.

Applying Stealth whenever a Thief breaks wind doesn’t strike me as interesting and makes the Thief look more like an annoying clown that’s trying too hard to be funny.

Aveneo.2068:

The main issue (as I see it) is not the concept of stealth; but the way ANet has implemented it.

Just look at all the benefits a Thief can get through traits that apply to stealth.

• Cloaked in Shadow (Blinds nearby foes)
  * Fleet Shadow (Move 50% faster while in stealth)
  * Hidden Assassin (Gain might)
  * Hidden Killer (100% crit chance while stealthed)
  * Shadow Protector (Grant targets of your stealth skills Regeneration)
  * Infusion of Shadow (Gain 2 initiative when using a skill that stealths)
  * Patience (Regain initiative faster)
  * Shadow’s Embrace (Remove one condition every three seconds)
  * Shadow’s Rejuvenation (Regenerate health)

From my perspective Stealth should have been a mechanic that would allow for setting up an ‘ambush’ or ‘escape’. But ANet went overboard by attaching so many additional bits of junk through traits. It’s like they couldn’t come up with a more interesting mechanic, so they just went with: “When in doubt, add more (stuff to) stealth”

To me, Stealth could have been a great tactical class-mechanic (for the F# keys) with a limited number of traits to enhance it. Instead they made it a shallow gimmick that’s almost mandatory to use with traits giving out measly little bonuses everywhere.

So personally I think they should have used Stealth for a class-mechanic and used it for F2/F3 with additional effects depending on the type of weapon you had equipped. So using F2 or F3 with a D/D would have a different ‘type’ of Stealth ability compared to using S/D or SB. That would have made Stealth an interesting, dynamic and tactical mechanic.

And in return the Thief could get more base health (same as Ranger) and more mobility. I personally wouldn’t want to see the Stealth mechanic vanish entirely, just reworked into the F2-F3 and merging some of the traits so its function becomes more tactical.

Applying Stealth whenever a Thief breaks wind doesn’t strike me as interesting and makes the Thief look more like an annoying clown that’s trying too hard to be funny.

I agree to this post. Many of these triats enhance the thiefs that can choose to stealth to full health before entering combat like the d/p thief.

If stealth would ever be removed I want instant casts, tons of shadowsteps(I mean tons), and a buff to blinds(attacks miss during the duration of blind, not for just one attack)

And more endurance.

My thief, Dynamic Duo, uses an evade build that has be able to hold its own to any thief using evade rather than stealth. It is a virtually unlikable thief without stealth. Adding stealth just makes for a boring slow paced gameplay where we wait for a thief for backstab us and then watch him blind us till he stealths again healing all the way up. It is a process we can do nothing about but outheal preventing defeateds but also being denied victory.

No.                                                                           

Doomdesire.9365:

If stealth would ever be removed I want instant casts, tons of shadowsteps(I mean tons), and a buff to blinds(attacks miss during the duration of blind, not for just one attack)

And more endurance.

Would you also like backstab to be an AoE? Shortbow to knockdown on autoattack? Dagger 1 to be a 12 second evade?The purpose of removing stealth would be to remove the ridiculous survivability Thieves have, not to increase it.

Yesterday I did WvW on my Necromancer, everytime I saw a thief come out of stealth I immobilized him, and attacked forcing him to put down shadows refuge, that’s when I placed my well of suffering right on top of it, and laughed when they appeared downed moments later.

Thieves aren’t easy to fight, but not impossible to beat. Just like mesmers. It requires some skills to counter them. Just because most probably you stood there doing nothing everytime a thief stealthed, doesn’t mean they should remove it!

The original implementation of stealth was good, what it now has evolved into is bad. Stealth was made to improve the movement of the Thief, which was a great way to incorporate stealth. But it has now turned into an almost permanent thing, and is based around stealth skills. So basically, the Thief has turned into an Assassin as it is known in so many other MMOs. But stealth doesn’t need to be removed completely. Simply removing stealth triggers from weapons, so it’s restricted to healing, utility, and steal skills, would go a long way.

Azraeel.1238:

Yesterday I did WvW on my Necromancer, everytime I saw a thief come out of stealth I immobilized him, and attacked forcing him to put down shadows refuge, that’s when I placed my well of suffering right on top of it, and laughed when they appeared downed moments later.

Thieves aren’t easy to fight, but not impossible to beat. Just like mesmers. It requires some skills to counter them. Just because most probably you stood there doing nothing everytime a thief stealthed, doesn’t mean they should remove it!

That was a very bad Thief.

A) He didn’t escape your immobilize

B) He stood in your wells

That strategy would only work in PvP on a small point. That strategy is completely unviable in WvW. I could literally escape your wells spamming 2 on my S/D, or just Deathblossom spam, or Shortbow 5, then kill you while you’re waiting for tkittenecond long cooldown.

If anything, stealthed characters should be partially visible when struck while invisible, (That semi-transparent stuff you see when they’re on your team). Would make it a lot easier to counter stealth than it currently is and reward skilled opponents, while not making it super trivial to deal with it either.
Also, maybe ~1 sec revealed when exiting stealth without attacking (to prevent C&D chain, because that’s super annoying, even though counterable) and some changes to prevent permastealth with just BP&HS would be something I’d support as well. That would make D/P less of a pain to deal with and open D/D up for the QoL-changes (read: buff to dancing dagger and something to make LDB viable in a direct damage spec) it really needs.

Aveneo.2068:

[…]
Just look at all the benefits a Thief can get through traits that apply to stealth.

• Cloaked in Shadow (Blinds nearby foes)
  * Fleet Shadow (Move 50% faster while in stealth)
  * Hidden Assassin (Gain might)
  * Hidden Killer (100% crit chance while stealthed)
  * Shadow Protector (Grant targets of your stealth skills Regeneration)
  * Infusion of Shadow (Gain 2 initiative when using a skill that stealths)
  * Patience (Regain initiative faster)
  * Shadow’s Embrace (Remove one condition every three seconds)
  * Shadow’s Rejuvenation (Regenerate health)

[…]

You seem to be forgetting something…

I feel like putting all of your 70 points into traits that buff stealth sort of justifies it doing a lot of stuff.

Rexatyr.2893:

… Also, maybe ~1 sec revealed when exiting stealth without attacking (to prevent C&D chain, because that’s super annoying, even though counterable) …

I don’t get this, C&D stealth chaining is on a 4 second cycle which should be super easy to time a dodge, or a blind, on. This is about player skill and the game should never be dumbed down to eliminate this.