Guild Wars 2

PVP: Ok here’s the deal…bunk vs bunk = nobody dies. Bunk vs glass = glass dies. Bunk vs thief = thief dies.

Is there something wrong with this picture? Maybe that glass doesn’t have a chance vs bunk and ANY thief doesn’t have a chance vs bunk?

Example 1: Ele with massive regen and acceptable damage…constantly uses util to bring to full life every 20-30 seconds, has melee stun, 2 knockdowns, protection, and that’s BEFORE traits. Traits add lots of regen, more protection, condi removal, etc…this ele basically can’t be beat by any thief. Any thief. Not d/p, not s/d, etc…thief simply can NOT burst this ele down. Can’t. And thief’s crappy condition damage can’t condi the ele down either. I spent…10 minutes? multiple times…and watched others do the same. The only person who beat this ele was a…any guesses?….PHANTASM MESMER.

Now, as a thief with any of my builds I have used…I got him down to 25% a few times but he could heal all his life right back. Meanwhile, I am forced to retreat to stealth over and over and over again. I died eventually both times…because I made mistakes, couldn’t/didn’t evade his fire spells in time, etc. While he can just spam spam spam the same bs ele stuff, take minimal damage even with two berserker build, or a condi p/d build…and I just can’t get him down. Incidentally, one of my builds is borrowed from an excellent pvp thief. Same results, I survived for a long time but never could get him down, and eventually I died. Too much regen, too much protection, too little damage from me, not enough stuns/etc. from me.

Example 2: My ranger vs this ele….both bunkers….played 10 minutes, nobody won. It got BORING. I didn’t hardly have to do anything, he didn’t do much damage to me, and I didn’t do much to him.

This is a kinda stupid IMO.

No. Bunkers are a meta that will always be and will be.

Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean it will get nerfed. Sorry

glass cannons can beat bunkers.

If you can’t idk what to tell you other than simply to L2P. Like the more experienced players tell those who complain about thieves, Learn to Play?

S/D does a pretty phenomenal job against boon reliant bunkers (99% of them, if not 100%). They’re still bunkers, and the fight will take a while, but it works.

It’s especially powerful in a 2 on 1 situation – remember, a Bunker is designed to hold off opponents for as long as possible, usually numerous opponents. My 10/30/0/30/0 S/D-S/D build (A variation of the one jumper posted) combined with pretty much anyone else neuters a bunker pretty hard.

Other spec’s work as well, but if you’re having trouble with them, try S/D.

Meridian.8730:

PVP: Ok here’s the deal…bunk vs bunk = nobody dies. Bunk vs glass = glass dies. Bunk vs thief = thief dies.

Is there something wrong with this picture? Maybe that glass doesn’t have a chance vs bunk and ANY thief doesn’t have a chance vs bunk?

Example 1: Ele with massive regen and acceptable damage…constantly uses util to bring to full life every 20-30 seconds, has melee stun, 2 knockdowns, protection, and that’s BEFORE traits.

Stopped reading here… Before posting about another class, how about you learn it…

I played ele for a long time, it was my very first class. I haven’t played it in a while but I remember some of the mechanics and I know what I was fighting against.

Oh wow

Would you perhaps be the guy known as meridiangreen?

Mesmers are op enough. Don’t make it worse by ruining the little defense we non-mesmers have lol

Teamkiller.4315:

Oh wow

Would you perhaps be the guy known as meridiangreen?

What would give that away? Which one are you, perhaps novah or holla or one of the others who plays an OP build and says thief is not underpowered when you always kill them easily?

Meridian.8730:

I played ele for a long time, it was my very first class. I haven’t played it in a while but I remember some of the mechanics and I know what I was fighting against.

So you fought an untraited Ele that randomly got protection without armor of earth?

Sadly, Bunker classes are the state of the game. A net themselves has said they wanted to negate burst. I’m sorry, the boon stealing is a good step, but still only a small step in negating a bunker’s capabilities. Lets look at the classes where the top builds are bunkers. Elementalist, Guardian, Ranger. Is it a coincidence that the top tier classes at the moment are Elementalist, Guardian, Ranger as well? Sure you can burst them down as other classes, and boon steal, but bunker’s will always have more of a place on the team. If on the same level of skill, defensive play allows you to make more mistakes. I have a feeling that only at the very top levels of play, where mistakes are rarely made on all classes, is this defense for mistakes taken away from them.

Swim.6830:

Meridian.8730:

I played ele for a long time, it was my very first class. I haven’t played it in a while but I remember some of the mechanics and I know what I was fighting against.

So you fought an untraited Ele that randomly got protection without armor of earth?

The ele had traits, I said I wasn’t including traits in all the defensive boons I listed. Add traits and it’s basically…really, really, really hard to kill. Impossible for most.

From my own experiences as fighting bunker elementalists, as a Thief your greatest tool is the art of surprise. While used with S/D. Our sword produces the most damage as a Thief, it’s within the highest tier for Thief weaponry. If you combine Stealth with S/D what comes out of it, is permanent daze capability. The auto attack chain is more than enough to take down any elementalist.

But then there is again the ele’s boons. An elementalist really isn’t anything but a class that hides behind boons, (same with guardian). If you use your 3 skill promptly and effectively it’ll steal those boons. When an elementalist switches to fire element (from what i’ve seen), they always seem to be able to produce 5+ stacks of might. Steal those stacks and it’ll be a done deal. But of course don’t rely on S/D too much, you need to be able to switch weapon sets with in the battle. (I pull my S/D out when i fight Guardians and Elementalist exclusively because of the variety of boons i can steal) Perma retalliation= Done deal.

i play 2 classes non stop in wvw an 1 is a messer an other a theif. My thief is a glass cannon berzker build with scholor runes, traits are 30/30/0/0/10 i change my tool bar an traits alot depending on what am tryen to do. ( not changen them = death an dumb). I can ez kill the ele you talked about with a few excption, 1. if they are more skilled them myself i will probly die 2, if they see me come then me being a theif an sneaky was played wrong by me 3, if they have ppl with them. other then that its realy about knowen what YOU (not your character) can do. If you know you suck at taken hits then surprise them. But dont dis the class becuase some1 plays a ele good an has taken the time learn their build and use it right.

What would give that away?

Meridian.

I have a good memory.

Which one are you, perhaps novah or holla or one of the others who plays an OP build and says thief is not underpowered when you always kill them easily?

novah and holla kill you easily because they’re better than you? IIRC Holla is the one who killed you without a chestpiece. And he also kills other DD eles without a chestpiece so…yeah maybe you’re just not as good as you may think.

Here, read this interesting article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

No, I wont nerf bunks, I would increase the base damage for the single target weapons (or all thiefweapons), because they are to low and every other class do more dmg on 3 targets and because the thief is or should be THE class to break bunkerbuilds.

I stopped reading after “glass dies”, I can beat bunkers in 1v1, the problen actually is that it takes long and their team comes to help

EDIT: since game is down and I have nothing better to do I read your post and you said you borrowed a build from and excellent pvp thief…. too bad you didn’t borrowed his hands

Black Teagan.9215:

No, I wont nerf bunks, I would increase the base damage for the single target weapons (or all thiefweapons), because they are to low and every other class do more dmg on 3 targets and because the thief is or should be THE class to break bunkerbuilds.

I have suggested this before, but unfortunately I doubt it will happen.

Teamkiller.4315:

novah and holla kill you easily because they’re better than you? IIRC Holla is the one who killed you without a chestpiece. And he also kills other DD eles without a chestpiece so…yeah maybe you’re just not as good as you may think.

Just because I’m not the best player in the world doesn’t also make me the worst, and I should at least have a fighting chance vs many of the mesmers, d/d eles, engineers and bunk rangers…which, ironically, are the ones who can consistently beat me even though others might not. And I wouldn’t even say that all engineers beat me, because for some reason they do not.

They aren’t the only players of those professions who can beat me, and I know how little damage I can do to most of them even with crits…and that’s the problem I will continue to have, and other thieves too, no matter what, as long as thief damage is not big enough to really do the job anymore.

Just because I’m not the best player in the world doesn’t also make me the worst, and I should at least have a fighting chance vs many of the mesmers, d/d eles, engineers and bunk rangers…which, ironically, are the ones who can consistently beat me even though others might not. And I wouldn’t even say that all engineers beat me, because for some reason they do not.

1) I never said you were the worst. You brought up Holla and Nova beating you as some form of support for your conclusion that they’re OP. I disagree, I believe it is because they are better than you.

For the record, you HAVE won against them, although not nearly as often as they have won against you. For the record, they have also beaten me more often than I have beaten them. This does not lead me to the conclusion that the classes I play are underpowered, but rather that the players I’m facing are rather spectacular.

I am “A Reliable Goldfish” by the way. I also run Crystl Desrt Invadr (Ranger) and Whai Hello Thar (Thief) in Hammon’s 2v2s.

They aren’t the only players of those professions who can beat me, and I know how little damage I can do to most of them even with crits…and that’s the problem I will continue to have, and other thieves too, no matter what, as long as thief damage is not big enough to really do the job anymore.

You are in a 2v2 room specifically designed for dueling, do you not agree that most of the players who venture in there are quite skilled at what they do, more so than the average gw2 player?

O NOSE, I can’t burst that thing down, nerf.

Bunker ele guard what ever is beat by one thing burst DPS. Balanced builds simply don’t pack enough of it to drop any one of them (warrior might be the exception there).

If this is spvp then the only point is to get the bunker off point if you got him to 25% life and didn’t do that with your team coming then I don’t know what to tell you.

Bunker will always be meta when only conquest mode exists.

I still get a good laugh out of Thieves vs bunker Rangers, but see no reason to nerf these builds.

They serve there purpose and there are ways to counter them.

The OP was in the Mesmer forums today asking to have Phantasm builds nerfed. Now he is here asking for Thief bunker builds to be nerfed. What class will he QQ next?

Run a team of 5 thieves 3 bunker regen’s two roamers… watch the rage.

Xavi.6591:

The OP was in the Mesmer forums today asking to have Phantasm builds nerfed. Now he is here asking for Thief bunker builds to be nerfed. What class will he QQ next?

Next logical choice is engg turret builds.

Xavi.6591:

The OP was in the Mesmer forums today asking to have Phantasm builds nerfed. Now he is here asking for Thief bunker builds to be nerfed. What class will he QQ next?

Any class that he can’t kill. Hahahaha.

@OP
Seriously, a bunker is a bunker because it is hard to take down. Most of the time, the point of going bunker is for you to survive until your team comes. They kill you not from burst but from attrition. If you are burst and you fight the bunker’s way, you will lose 90% of the time.

One key to killing bunkers is to time your interrupts right. Most bunkers will wait until they are at around 25%hp before they use their heal so if you interrupt this, there’s a big chance that you will be able kill him. Of course, there’s the luck factor as well.

If you increase the base damage of single target then you will kill any squishy with 1 hit, which isn’t logical at all! Bunkers are meant to last, otherwise they won’t be bunker builds…

Meridian.8730:

Bunk vs thief = thief dies.

Mainhand Sword.

Enjoy.

(If you absolutely need an explanation, almost every bunker in the game requires boons such as protection and regen. Sword thief laughs at boons and calls them his own. Additionally the abusive mobility and evasion from a typical sword build means that you can get damage in while taking minimal damage in return. You’re essentially a pseudo (anti) bunker, that, nonetheless, has a lot of damage…)

As for bunker vs bunker, it’s not true that nobody wins unless it’s 2 100% full bunker builds. At which point… Why are you dueling a full bunker with a full bunker? Just ignore them… They won’t do anything…

Also not necessarily true that a bunker always beats a glass.

Also, full bunker or full glass aren’t necessarily the best builds in either case. Balance is key.

Meridian.8730:

PVP: Ok here’s the deal…bunk vs bunk = nobody dies. Bunk vs glass = glass dies. Bunk vs thief = thief dies.

Meanwhile, I am forced to retreat to stealth over and over and over again. I died eventually both times… because I made mistakes, couldn’t/didn’t evade his fire spells in time, etc.

Only reason you could retreat is because they nerfed the elementalist mobility. Only reason you got his health down to 25% was because he lost his mobility and couldn’t run away. You made mistakes and thus you want arenanet to nerf the elementalist bunkering ability. Did you know that that is the only build the elementalist can run in any pvp fashion and not die instantly? Why? Its because you thieves do amazing burst so stop crying about it and l2p

Black Teagan.9215:

No, I wont nerf bunks, I would increase the base damage for the single target weapons (or all thiefweapons), because they are to low and every other class do more dmg on 3 targets and because the thief is or should be THE class to break bunkerbuilds.

Go play a D/D ele or a pistol Engineer. The single target hit is disgustingly low. Maybe you forgot that Thieves got boon stealing with the sword? Besides – good thieves didnt even need that buff. If your a thief that cannot kill a bunker than you need to L2P. Why? Because often they are slow, you have stealth and massive mobility. I dont think you have played any class other than thief if you are saying theif weapons are weak. Become a decent player and then re-post, dude. My thief does more damage than all my other classes by far.

Maketso.5602:

Black Teagan.9215:

No, I wont nerf bunks, I would increase the base damage for the single target weapons (or all thiefweapons), because they are to low and every other class do more dmg on 3 targets and because the thief is or should be THE class to break bunkerbuilds.

Go play a D/D ele or a pistol Engineer. The single target hit is disgustingly low. Maybe you forgot that Thieves got boon stealing with the sword? Besides – good thieves didnt even need that buff. If your a thief that cannot kill a bunker than you need to L2P. Why? Because often they are slow, you have stealth and massive mobility. I dont think you have played any class other than thief if you are saying theif weapons are weak. Become a decent player and then re-post, dude. My thief does more damage than all my other classes by far.

Ele and single target? pls dont kidding me.
And the Engi has more than enough Kits to do aoe damage(granades, flamethrower, bombkit), his turrets and pistols have two skills for aoe dmg + autoattack(Explosive Shot).

Go PvE and say this again.

Thief class breaks bunkers in 1v1 9/10 times… and if you are a BALANCED thief not a omg zerk backstab you will definitely win…

Black Teagan.9215:

And the Engi has more than enough Kits to do aoe damage(granades, flamethrower, bombkit), his turrets and pistols have two skills for aoe dmg + autoattack(Explosive Shot).

I giggled at the notion that explosive shot is a viable AoE option… in a sad, depressed kind of way.

lol at the first post… i can’t kill something, nerf it now.

Thieves can still handle bunkers 1v1. Here is a hint stop going full glass.

If you cannot kill bunkers as a glass cannon thief who uses S/D then just roll another class.(Explanations above)
BM ranger there you go!Passive gameplay for the win !!!-laughing for the excuse anet gave about not making engi turrets effective-.

Immunities now only slow the proccess.Nerf them yes!