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(edited by RobotiClaw.7534)
Reveal idea
What will be the benefits from this?
That is literally the exact same as what we have right now… transparency wouldn’t add anything except for aesthetic appeal…
That is literally the exact same as what we have right now… transparency wouldn’t add anything except for aesthetic appeal…
lol, you’re kidding right? Reveal right now shuts down an entire trait line and denies us access to our stealth skills.
What will be the benefits from this?
Well, with the reveal we have now we cant go invisible, with this reveal we would be invisible but visible to the enemy, so we can still use are stealth attacks.
This has been suggested before, and it is a wonderful idea. The user who reveals you knows where you are, removing the largest frustrating aspect of stealth. We still have access to our stealth attacks and stealth related benefits, removing the largest frustrating aspect of reveal.
This idea has been floating around. Its a good idea in my opinion. Both sides win and it becomes less frustrating to everyone.
I wouldn’t mind it, but I’m not sure how much it would help in 1vX’s since many if not most use some form of tab targeting which would still target you just as quickly. However In team fights it would be a lot better because you’ll have more targets to tab target onto instead of you.
What will be the benefits from this?
Well, with the reveal we have now we cant go invisible, with this reveal we would be invisible but visible to the enemy, so we can still use are stealth attacks.
That is the point of reveal, to prevent you from doing your stealth attacks. It is not just to make you easier to hit, hence why you get revealed when you attack a foe from stealth.
Having a transparent effect for the duration of revealed would be ok, as an aethetic change only, but I would not want it to change the actual mechanics of reveal. As a thief main myself I can see why we have such a mechanic, and would not want it to be removed. I still remember all the QQ about stealth in the early days. We do not need to go there again.
I feel like people come here, say they main a thief, an then talk about how thief is perfectly balanced and the reveal is fine… I’m calling bullkitten. You main a burn guard for sure haha
I totally disagree, I think from a dev standpoint it has nothing to do with mitigating stealth skills and is completely about needing counterplay. U can’t counterplay what you can’t see. Yes, damage reveals you but this is just so people arent able to double backstab. Having this new style of reveal would be amazing. It wouldn’t completely hard counter our burst but it would provide people a chance to see it coming and effectively have a chance to get out of the way.
What will be the benefits from this?
Well, with the reveal we have now we cant go invisible, with this reveal we would be invisible but visible to the enemy, so we can still use are stealth attacks.
That is the point of reveal, to prevent you from doing your stealth attacks. It is not just to make you easier to hit, hence why you get revealed when you attack a foe from stealth.
Having a transparent effect for the duration of revealed would be ok, as an aethetic change only, but I would not want it to change the actual mechanics of reveal. As a thief main myself I can see why we have such a mechanic, and would not want it to be removed. I still remember all the QQ about stealth in the early days. We do not need to go there again.
No the point of reveal is just to force people to be visible. Hence it applies to all the classes and is NOT aimed specifically at thieves.
This mechanism of just making people visible while in stealth state to replace the current iteration of stealth is perfect. It’s the best of both worlds.
Since everyone has their own cards back and can react to the other party, all the QQ will just be a L2P issue.
I feel like people come here, say they main a thief, an then talk about how thief is perfectly balanced and the reveal is fine… I’m calling bullkitten. You main a burn guard for sure haha
I totally disagree, I think from a dev standpoint it has nothing to do with mitigating stealth skills and is completely about needing counterplay. U can’t counterplay what you can’t see. Yes, damage reveals you but this is just so people arent able to double backstab. Having this new style of reveal would be amazing. It wouldn’t completely hard counter our burst but it would provide people a chance to see it coming and effectively have a chance to get out of the way.
You can call bullkitten all you want, I know what I main. Secondly, I never said the thief was perfectly balanced, I only said revealed is a necessary evil to maintain some kind of balance with regards to stealth. So lets not get all carried away shall we?
If they changed the skills/traits that forced reveal, such as the engi’s Lock On trait, to be some kind of partial reveal (that has the OP’s suggested transparent but clearly visible effect, without locking you out of the stealth benefits) then I would be ok with that, so long as the normal self inflicted reveals are not changed at all. I would imagine, however, that that is a technically tricky thing to implement and it is much easier to simply force a normal reveal.
At the end of the day it is only a few seconds, and in those few seconds you do have other options, one of which is built in for every profession (i.e.- dodge). If you find reveal too crippling then you need to stop relying only on stealth for your survival. I know when I am fighting a skilled thief because being revealed doesn’t result in them eating dirt after a few seconds of being revealed. Bad players, who rely too much on stealth, get revealed, panic and fall apart. Some of them manage to escape, but they simply fail to react and deal with reveal.
I am not trying to blow my own trumpet or anything when I say this, but I genuinely do not notice that much when I get revealed, because I have atuned my mind to know that when I am visible I need to dodge and blind and so on to survive. The thief has tons of tricks up their sleeve, stealth is not our only trick, but it is a very strong one and one that needs counters.
Like I say, if they implemented a partial reveal mechanic I would be ok with that, but I cannot see it happening, nor do I think it really that necessary. Stealth should take skill to use effectively, primarily because it is so strong.
@Tabootrinket – I get that reveal is not aimed specifically at thief, but it does need to prevent their stealth benefits. The thief gains benefits from stealth, revealed is when you are removed from stealth, so it makes sense that they lose those benefits.
The way I, thematically, see revealed, is you have been detected by the enemy. Therefore, it is irrelevant whether you are transparent or not, your enemy can see you, so you should lose ALL benefits of being in stealth.
(edited by Rin.1046)
Well, I do agree that the self inflict reveal should remain. “Perma stealth” has never been a good thing balance-wise.
But I think that denying most of the defensive tool of certain builds isn’t good balance either. Only thieves have traits and skills dependant on the stealth statue. It’s not fair to add that aspect to them and not other classes (reveal isn’t supposed to be themed oriented. From the beginning it has been conceived as a balancing tool). Reveal inflicted by others should be a “soft reveal” with the transparent effect. Reveal inflicted by yourself should be a “hard reveal” with the current mechanism.
If people want a tool to annihilate the stealth statue, it should be through a mechanism that would also be able to prevent “death shroud”, “celestial form”, “berserker form”, and other special kind of forms too.
I think it’s an important enough matter for the devs to put time into this.
(edited by Tabootrinket.2631)
Well, I do agree that the self inflict reveal should remain. “Perma stealth” has never been a good thing balance-wise.
But I think that denying most of the defensive tool of certain builds isn’t good balance either. Only thieves have traits and skills dependant on the stealth statue. It’s not fair to add that aspect to them and not other classes (reveal isn’t supposed to be themed oriented. From the beginning it has been conceived as a balancing tool). Reveal inflicted by others should be a “soft reveal” with the transparent effect. Reveal inflicted by yourself should be a “hard reveal” with the current mechanism.
If people want a tool to annihilate the stealth statue, it should be through a mechanism that would also be able to prevent “death shroud”, “celestial form”, “berserker form”, and other special kind of forms too.
I think it’s an important enough matter for the devs to put time into this.
I can get behind a soft reveal hard reveal idea. That said, Anet needs to be very careful with balancing it. Stealth, no matter how you look at it, is a very strong mechanic, and for a long time some classes were able to really abuse it. If they were to bring a soft reveal in to the game, they need to ensure the benefits the thief gains from a soft reveal over a hard reveal cannot be abused in any way.
For example, condi cleanse and heal regen while soft revealed can still be pretty strong, so they may need to adjust skills to work slightly differently while soft revealed. For example, the condi cleanse could remove a condition every 3 seconds in stealth but every 6 seconds while soft revealed.
The way I see it, is the thief gains more from stealth than other profs, so should lose more from revealed than others, to balance out that benefit. But hey, if they add a soft and hard reveal mechanic, and can balance it right, then I’d be happy with that.
Oh boy! Backstab spam! Yeah no.
this would all be great but we all know they don’t read thief forums.