Guild Wars 2

Via Jon Peters in game:

http://imgur.com/lmZgWLo

I guess if you mess somthing up and revert it back — it becomes good news. :/

They shouldn’t have done it in the first place.

4s stays in only PvP but not WvW? I wonder what’s the reason behind that. Any educated guesses?

Because WvW and PvE are joined at the hip. They use the same rules.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I guess if you mess somthing up and revert it back — it becomes good news. :/

They shouldn’t have done it in the first place.

Well, it’s positive that they are willing to more or less admit it was a screw up by reverting it the very next patch. They could have remained defensive and stubbornly insisted it was a good move.

On the other hand, why is Revealed even necessary in PvE, and is it necessary at all now that culling is fixed?

What makes more sense to me is putting all Thief weapon skills on a very short global cooldown, like .5 seconds, to allow you maximum flexibility without the ability to truly spam. It would also fix that annoying tendency to accidentally over-queue if you’re used to profession hopping.

I’m curious why the nerf is needed in SPvP.

Good news, but it never should have been an issue to begin with. It’s a relief, but I’m not celebrating or anything.

Grimwolf.7163:

I’m curious why the nerf is needed in SPvP.

I assume this is part of the PvE+WvWvW / PvP skill split they keep mentioning.

Maybe in the future, any tweaks made to one side (PvE+WvWvW) expect a slight nerf to the same skill on the PvP side?

I see.
I guess it is safe to assume that future nerfs will be hurting PvP thieves a lot more.

Azura.4172:

I see.
I guess it is safe to assume that future nerfs will be hurting PvP thieves a lot more.

quite a few of the most thief population don’t care much about the (s)pvp ?

I think so. For me, I don’t PvP with my thief anymore when I learned that people trying to spam down my illusions as if they were me to be more entertaining. >.<

Weren’t most of the thief stealthing complaints coming from WvW? And they might be reverting it for WvW? Why do they feel it’s necessary in sPvP? Does anyone feel like thieves are overpowered and are in need of a nerf in sPvP? Or that the revealed reverting back to 3 seconds in sPvP would make us OP?

FAKE.
Message Body length must at least be 15.

JohnnyZero.5619:

Weren’t most of the thief stealthing complaints coming from WvW? And they might be reverting it for WvW? Why do they feel it’s necessary in sPvP? Does anyone feel like thieves are overpowered and are in need of a nerf in sPvP? Or that the revealed reverting back to 3 seconds in sPvP would make us OP?

With culling “fixed” 4s revealed as opposed to 3s does absolutely nothing in WvW other than screwing with rotation and making certain builds (P/D) kitten. It doesn’t stop D/P from sitting in stealth all day or CnDing at the end of stealth for basically permanent stealth… and so on.

I do believe most complains came from WvW, but that was when Culling was still an issue where 3s Reveal seemed more like 1s. Now culling is fixed, 3s sounds more reasonable as it was designed.

I don’t believe the nerf should be in sPvP if WvW is reverting back. But if all spectrum are reverting back, then there is no PvE/PvP split anymore. PvP=Escapegoat?

Rofl…. Not surprising considering the current state of this game when it comes to “balancing”

Because they apparently though thief was OP in tPvP with 3s revealed? o.O

Is that actually him btw or is that just some one impersonating him in game?

So how is 3 seconds of reveal OP in sPvP/tPvP to warrant having 4 seconds instead ?
It boggles my mind how balance is handled.

lol everyone falling for the fake screenshot.

oh god I hope this is the truth, please don’t be fake

Einlanzer.1627:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I guess if you mess somthing up and revert it back — it becomes good news. :/

They shouldn’t have done it in the first place.

On the other hand, why is Revealed even necessary in PvE, and is it necessary at all now that culling is fixed?

lol…
You do realize, you could probably kill a champion with the right build by wearing full zerk, stealing to them and just spam CnDCnDCnDCnDCnDCnDCnDCnD…
No need to time anything, just hammer the snot out of that ‘5’ key till he’s dead.

naphack.9346:

lol…
You do realize, you could probably kill a champion with the right build by wearing full zerk, stealing to them and just spam CnDCnDCnDCnDCnDCnDCnDCnD…
No need to time anything, just hammer the snot out of that ‘5’ key till he’s dead.

It would require an infinite initiative hack …

ShoeMoney.5249:

lol everyone falling for the fake screenshot.

I’m going to laugh so hard if this is fake. If not, well… that’s ok too I suppose. :p

stof.9341:

naphack.9346:

lol…
You do realize, you could probably kill a champion with the right build by wearing full zerk, stealing to them and just spam CnDCnDCnDCnDCnDCnDCnDCnD…
No need to time anything, just hammer the snot out of that ‘5’ key till he’s dead.

It would require an infinite initiative hack …

base: 1 point of initiative every 1.33 seconds, 3 points in 4 seconds,7.5 points in 10 seconds.
patience: 1 initiative every 3 seconds while in stealth → 3.3 points in 10 seconds.
quick recovery+infiltrators signet: +3 in 10 seconds.
total: ~14 initiative in 10 seconds.

CnD costs 6 initiative.
Whenever you use CnC, you get 2 initiative back(infusion) and have a 20% chance to get 1 initiative back(hidden killer+opportunist), making the total costs 3.8.
Without revealed, you can use 3 and a half CnD in 10 seconds, giving you 14 seconds of stealth, in other words 140% uptime.
q.e.d.

stof.9341:

naphack.9346:

lol…
You do realize, you could probably kill a champion with the right build by wearing full zerk, stealing to them and just spam CnDCnDCnDCnDCnDCnDCnDCnD…
No need to time anything, just hammer the snot out of that ‘5’ key till he’s dead.

It would require an infinite initiative hack …

Not really, you get 2 initiative back and you can get extra initiative regen. Enough to get 4 per 5-6 seconds which is all you really need.

naphack.9346:

stof.9341:

naphack.9346:

lol…
You do realize, you could probably kill a champion with the right build by wearing full zerk, stealing to them and just spam CnDCnDCnDCnDCnDCnDCnDCnD…
No need to time anything, just hammer the snot out of that ‘5’ key till he’s dead.

It would require an infinite initiative hack …

base: 1 point of initiative every 1.33 seconds, 3 points in 4 seconds,7.5 points in 10 seconds.
patience: 1 initiative every 3 seconds while in stealth -> 3.3 points in 10 seconds.
quick recovery+infiltrators signet: +3 in 10 seconds.
total: ~14 initiative in 10 seconds.

CnD costs 6 initiative.
Whenever you use CnC, you get 2 initiative back(infusion) and have a 20% chance to get 1 initiative back(hidden killer+opportunist), making the total costs 3.8.
Without revealed, you can use 3 and a half CnD in 10 seconds, giving you 14 seconds of stealth, in other words 140% uptime.
q.e.d.

Pushing a buton every 4 seconds is not a spamming, ant that way you can keep your initiative up and if you think of it as a good damage i got nothing else to say .. You said you could just spam cnd till champion is dead if revealed debuff was turned off for pve. Which is impossible.
But yes revealed is nessesary.

Humorless.1573:

stof.9341:

naphack.9346:

lol…
You do realize, you could probably kill a champion with the right build by wearing full zerk, stealing to them and just spam CnDCnDCnDCnDCnDCnDCnDCnD…
No need to time anything, just hammer the snot out of that ‘5’ key till he’s dead.

It would require an infinite initiative hack …

Not really, you get 2 initiative back and you can get extra initiative regen. Enough to get 4 per 5-6 seconds which is all you really need.

It’s 4 back within 3 seconds… idk what you’re talking about. Although with utilities it’d be very possible to 100-0% champions if someone was dumb enough to turn off revealed in pve. CnD to initiate then you have 3 backstabs until another CnD. You MIGHT run out of initiative doing that but not if you put down a smoke screen and hs through that bad boy 5+ times then just wait for your ini to get back up. Don’t feel like waiting? Drop refuge and have that give you 100% initiative as you’re still attacking. Attacked like an idiot? Roll for initiative. Still not dead? Smoke screen is up again.

Thank god there’s revealed in pve. If it wasn’t even the noobiest of thieves could solo lupi no problem.

Fine, let’s change the subject then:
a thief with a group of 3 killing a champion by putting down some smoke fields and spamming blast finishers.

Before ANet implemented Revealed, do you really believe that thieves that backstabed something kept their stealth buff?

Without Revealed, any usage of C&D would make you lose Stealth and regain it again, thus wasting any stacking of Stealth you have been doing beforehand.

randomfightfan.4091:

It’s 4 back within 3 seconds… idk what you’re talking about. Although with utilities it’d be very possible to 100-0% champions if someone was dumb enough to turn off revealed in pve. CnD to initiate then you have 3 backstabs until another CnD. You MIGHT run out of initiative doing that but not if you put down a smoke screen and hs through that bad boy 5+ times then just wait for your ini to get back up. Don’t feel like waiting? Drop refuge and have that give you 100% initiative as you’re still attacking. Attacked like an idiot? Roll for initiative. Still not dead? Smoke screen is up again.

Thank god there’s revealed in pve. If it wasn’t even the noobiest of thieves could solo lupi no problem.

I’m pretty sure he means just sitting there and hitting CnD just after stealth runs out… which means you’re losing 4 initiative every CnD every 4-5 seconds. Normal regen allows for 3 init/4 sec. With quick recovery and inf signet and maybe some dodges that allows you to kill any mob… slowly.

Humorless.1573:

randomfightfan.4091:

It’s 4 back within 3 seconds… idk what you’re talking about. Although with utilities it’d be very possible to 100-0% champions if someone was dumb enough to turn off revealed in pve. CnD to initiate then you have 3 backstabs until another CnD. You MIGHT run out of initiative doing that but not if you put down a smoke screen and hs through that bad boy 5+ times then just wait for your ini to get back up. Don’t feel like waiting? Drop refuge and have that give you 100% initiative as you’re still attacking. Attacked like an idiot? Roll for initiative. Still not dead? Smoke screen is up again.

Thank god there’s revealed in pve. If it wasn’t even the noobiest of thieves could solo lupi no problem.

I’m pretty sure he means just sitting there and hitting CnD just after stealth runs out… which means you’re losing 4 initiative every CnD every 4-5 seconds. Normal regen allows for 3 init/4 sec. With quick recovery and inf signet and maybe some dodges that allows you to kill any mob… slowly.

In that case the 3 backstabs wouldn’t work but heartseekering through smoke field for perma up-time would. Still would be a horrible idea to take it out.

randomfightfan.4091:

Humorless.1573:

randomfightfan.4091:

It’s 4 back within 3 seconds… idk what you’re talking about. Although with utilities it’d be very possible to 100-0% champions if someone was dumb enough to turn off revealed in pve. CnD to initiate then you have 3 backstabs until another CnD. You MIGHT run out of initiative doing that but not if you put down a smoke screen and hs through that bad boy 5+ times then just wait for your ini to get back up. Don’t feel like waiting? Drop refuge and have that give you 100% initiative as you’re still attacking. Attacked like an idiot? Roll for initiative. Still not dead? Smoke screen is up again.

Thank god there’s revealed in pve. If it wasn’t even the noobiest of thieves could solo lupi no problem.

I’m pretty sure he means just sitting there and hitting CnD just after stealth runs out… which means you’re losing 4 initiative every CnD every 4-5 seconds. Normal regen allows for 3 init/4 sec. With quick recovery and inf signet and maybe some dodges that allows you to kill any mob… slowly.

In that case the 3 backstabs wouldn’t work but heartseekering through smoke field for perma up-time would. Still would be a horrible idea to take it out.

It would be, but what I mention works in the current state.

Well, it poses risks, as most champions have only a 10% chance to be affected by blind, so every time you stealth, you will probably eat a big one.
Without revealed, you could simply kill champions while remaining stealthed completely.
No matter how long it took, that would simply be stupid.

I like how WvW is not considered a form of PvP…

Humorless.1573:

randomfightfan.4091:

Humorless.1573:

randomfightfan.4091:

It’s 4 back within 3 seconds… idk what you’re talking about. Although with utilities it’d be very possible to 100-0% champions if someone was dumb enough to turn off revealed in pve. CnD to initiate then you have 3 backstabs until another CnD. You MIGHT run out of initiative doing that but not if you put down a smoke screen and hs through that bad boy 5+ times then just wait for your ini to get back up. Don’t feel like waiting? Drop refuge and have that give you 100% initiative as you’re still attacking. Attacked like an idiot? Roll for initiative. Still not dead? Smoke screen is up again.

Thank god there’s revealed in pve. If it wasn’t even the noobiest of thieves could solo lupi no problem.

I’m pretty sure he means just sitting there and hitting CnD just after stealth runs out… which means you’re losing 4 initiative every CnD every 4-5 seconds. Normal regen allows for 3 init/4 sec. With quick recovery and inf signet and maybe some dodges that allows you to kill any mob… slowly.

In that case the 3 backstabs wouldn’t work but heartseekering through smoke field for perma up-time would. Still would be a horrible idea to take it out.

It would be, but what I mention works in the current state.

not in pve, the monsters instantly retaliate the moment you leave stealth. You’d die before too many cnd rotations if that’s all you were doing.

I am also pretty confused as to why 4s revealed is going to stay in sPvP…
It’s as if they thought thieves were in a decent state prior to the revealed change…

For someone who plays all formats of the game (me), the discrepancy in revealed between PvE/sPvP will likely throw off their game in sPvP.

Revealed duration needs to stay consistent at 3s. Just tweak the numbers that made you consider the revealed change in the first place.

Preacher.9018:

I like how WvW is not considered a form of PvP…

killing players in wvw is NOT pvp =))))
sad but true
ahahahaha

naphack.9346:

Fine, let’s change the subject then:
a thief with a group of 3 killing a champion by putting down some smoke fields and spamming blast finishers.

I fail to see the problem with a group killing a Champion.

Grimwolf.7163:

naphack.9346:

Fine, let’s change the subject then:
a thief with a group of 3 killing a champion by putting down some smoke fields and spamming blast finishers.

I fail to see the problem with a group killing a Champion.

If that group is the final boss of some large event chain/world event and can be killed by 4 guys permastealthing without any risk, still no problem?

This revert needs to happen asap. Would be too good to revert it back to PvP also.

Reverting it back in WvWvW simply doesn’t make sense. Thieves are still abundant in WvWvW. And a thief can still troll a large group of people in WvWvW and keep a keep, castle or tower contested ad infinitum (C&D the wall). In a fight a thief is visible for 4-5 seconds, then vanishes again, then again and again (countering it with AoE is a guess game as a good thief will not stay under the shadow refuge if he gets AoE bombed). WvWvW is basically more or less pvp in a huge map, where mobility, stealth, shadowstep etc. are more powerful than they are in pvp.

Stealth was a badly designed game mechanism from the beginning. And to make thief profession so reliant of it, was another a bad decision. One trick pony, what can I say.

that you can troll a group in wvw won’t get you far… when a thief is visible for 5 seconds.. ever considered just putting heavy preasure on him and killing him? thieves are not invincible at all even if they are in stealth. would be just great if people stopped complaining and started defending themselves instead of running away from a thief in desperation..

I never played the thief before the last patch so I’m not familiar with the impact changing the stealth mechanic from 3 seconds to 4 seconds did. But that said, it is a terrible idea to have something like stealth, the very foundation of the class, work one way in WvW and another way in sPvP.

The way the thief class works right now, their value in WvW is already at an all-time low due to how everything is Zerg v Zerg now and the only people roaming are all upleveled. Any change to stealth will have no real impact on their status in the current meta, but for those of us who play both, transitioning from one to the other will be quite difficult when your whole rhythm is thrown out of whack.

There has to be a better option (I’d sooner leave 4seconds in place) than splitting the 2 systems in this fashion.

So -/D would still be have bad timings and clanky results in PvP? My P/D set is still crying because I end up switching to other weapons far too often since the nerf.

I would like to see it reverted and their initial intention of revealed even if you don’t attack being implemented. That one was the perfect solution.

OMG!!! since no official statement was made by A-Net, why so many people are taking this as a true thing and complaining that it won’t be reverted in sPvP?

But isn’t stealth the worst in spvp? Thieves can’t cap anything because unless they are specced to purely evade stealth can’t cap anything… They are the most useless in higher tier tpvp…. I dunno, I can’t understand it.

Thiefs are not the most useless in higher tier tpvp because they have amazing burst and dps.

Thieves are your roaming guy that downs people for your bunkers to stomp.

I still don’t understand why they would make the thief different from wvw/spvp as far as stealth mechanics go.

I think ANet should just admit they made a mistake with the 3s to 4s and revert it everywhere.

3s was perfect.

The 4s nerf killed my D/D play style in wvw and my condi build in spvp.

Since then I have gone full burst in spvp and 0/20/30/20/0 in wvw using d/p for blinding. DPS isn’t the same as it was before but I almost never die due to blinds+mobility.

swinks is right but we arent useless….but close to it. and thats only in comparison to what other classes do in PVP. thiefs….eh if 8people put down ground skills or area CC its a thieves nightmare. just nto playable unless we go 22k hp and chill with sb. since backstab dmg is usually 5500 in spvp. and eeryone else DPS crits are like 3800 on high end. we arent exatly contributing AS much bc we can only do it for a moment. need to make us more sliperier in our traits i think. drop the 10% dmg in trickery and give us (50%) faster endurance regen. or some kind of thief armor that falls off after so much dmg (similar to necros life skill)

Travlane.5948:

swinks is right but we arent useless….but close to it. and thats only in comparison to what other classes do in PVP. thiefs….eh if 8people put down ground skills or area CC its a thieves nightmare. just nto playable unless we go 22k hp and chill with sb. since backstab dmg is usually 5500 in spvp. and eeryone else DPS crits are like 3800 on high end. we arent exatly contributing AS much bc we can only do it for a moment. need to make us more sliperier in our traits i think. drop the 10% dmg in trickery and give us (50%) faster endurance regen. or some kind of thief armor that falls off after so much dmg (similar to necros life skill)

Your numbers you’ve stated here are really dependent on the build/runes you are using.

I have backstabbed people for over 22k in wvw as full burst against an up-leveled warrior.

In spvp I have backstabbed a warrior who was frenzied for 15k.

In spvp my backstab is anywhere from 5-6k to 9-11k depending on how bunkerish the opponent is.

The problem I have with the thief at the moment is that there is no “inbetween” build really.

Since the 3s got turned into 4s, it’s impossbile to run d/d as effective as d/p or even s/d.

That extra second kind of killed the semi-burst d/d thief.

I would love an official response to this!!!