Guild Wars 2

I am honestly without words for this change. How on earth could giving an ability to TWO classes that can completely shut down the thief’s class-defining ability be a good idea?

Rangers having “Sick ’em” is bad enough, but at least it can only be brought down to a 32s cool down. Don’t get me wrong though, 6s is plenty of time for most decent roamers or groups to focus down a thief.

The Engineer “Utility Goggles” skill is completely game-breaking for thieves and most Mesmer builds don’t have it much better. With 2 points in the “Tools” line, and “Speedy Gadgets” equipped, Engi’s get an insta-cast (nothing to indicate that you should try to dodge) 6s reveal on a 28s (27.5s actually) recast. That’s >20% revealed up time. Not to mention the fact that if you were to put one more point into Tools for “Inertial Converter” the cool down drops to 26s and you would get another 6s of revealed as soon as your health dropped below 25%. Heaved forbid you go 6 points into Tools to get 23s recast on Utility Goggles PLUS a freebie when your health goes below 25%. That’s revealed up time of >25% of the fight, PLUS an extra 6s when your health drops below the threshold. Absolutely ridiculous.

What happens if/when there is more than one Engi/Ranger? I think we all know the answer to that question.

To put this into context, a revealed thief has the lowest vitality/toughness in the game, no access to defensive boons, and very little access to condition removal. As a community, what are we supposed to do to compensate for these new abilities? Go stealthless? S/P is the only real option (P/P remains a joke), but for it to be even remotely effective you need to run full glass – you’ve got a limited amount of initiative to kill someone/stay alive with (Pistol Whip), but once that pool is used up, you’re a sitting duck.

It’s a sad day for thieves, and that is an understatement.

It is hilarious that they gave it to engi of all professions, rather than one that actually needed help vs thief

hello,
I find this shift very well in several points.
But I find that the jurisdiction of the prowler attack is completely unfair because it removes stealth for 6sec which is too much for the thief that his defense and attack depends (ie as if we transform the warrior moa still for 6sec ) is completely unreasonable

I haven’t encountered many engi’s running it. To slot it, they have to give up a kit or another good utility like Rocket Boots. It’s a similar situation with rangers.

Pretty much the only time you’d take Sic Em or Utility Goggles is if your intent is to go around ganking thieves. If they’re spec’d specifically to deal with you, you’re better off not engaging anyway.

This may change after people settle into new builds, but I don’t really see it being a problem right now.

The combo of more longer reveals, coupled with higher spike damage incoming and less access to blinds is a triple whammy.

>>Pretty much the only time you’d take Sic Em or Utility Goggles is if your intent is to go around ganking thieves

Well it can easily be slotted in at any time. Just as a thief can use signet of travel to get across the map faster then switch up prior to entering battle. 1v1 it wont happen a lot as you can keep the engineer or ranger engaged but a ranger at range seeing “thief” needs a second to slot up sic em.

A thief has at least 4 options for defense: mobility, cc, evades and stealth. I have yet to see a build that does not cover at least 2 of them.That means you should always have an alternative defense even if your build is heavily reliant on stealth. In fact you should consider playing something with very low stealth access for a while. It will only make you a better player and help you deal with revealed more efficiently in the future.

ens.9854:

It is hilarious that they gave it to engi of all professions, rather than one that actually needed help vs thief

this.

I’m not even concern about this. With the new Rune of Trapper, I’m sure all these non-Thief will prey on each other and us Thief can just sit back, relax and watch the show.

EDIT: I mean trapper, not evasion

Despite being a main thief, I’ve been having a lot of fun against thieves nowadays with my LB Easy mode Ranger.

But I agree that a skill that is undodgeable, not affected by Los, with no cast and that ignores blind, it’s a little too much. I’ll just shoot 3 arrows to a thief, then use sic em, then BAM, rapid fire and gg thief

"Sic’em" always had a revealed effect, just 4 seconds instead of 6; only utility goggles didn’t have it before. Dealing with it is the same principle as before though. Use obstructions. A good thief will be using obstructions anyway. S/D and S/P can still cope with it - even vs. utility goggles. D/P should be able to cope with blinds from shadow shot against the engineer in place of S/D’s evades, interrupt skills to save endurance, and of course blinding, dazing and obstructing rangers and using blinding powder for the pet if it follows you still work. Don’t forget steal if traited for sleight of hand can be used defensively as well. Thief still has the tools necessary to survive and keep on fighting.

Engineer was already a hard fight for any thief, and now it’s basically gg in pvp with the changes. But yea, buffing revealed to a class that can now burst for 18k with one longbow skill is a bit ridiculous.

ulcimql.2516:

A thief has at least 4 options for defense: mobility, cc, evades and stealth. I have yet to see a build that does not cover at least 2 of them.That means you should always have an alternative defense even if your build is heavily reliant on stealth. In fact you should consider playing something with very low stealth access for a while. It will only make you a better player and help you deal with revealed more efficiently in the future.

why do you assume we only play thief?

hint, people play thief because they LIKE stealth mechanics not because they
don’t know HOW to play other classes

Impact.2780:

“Sic’em” always had a revealed effect, just 4 seconds instead of 6; only utility goggles didn’t have it before. Dealing with it is the same principle as before though. Use obstructions. A good thief will be using obstructions anyway. S/D and S/P can still cope with it – even vs. utility goggles. D/P should be able to cope with blinds from shadow shot against the engineer in place of S/D’s evades, interrupt skills to save endurance, and of course blinding, dazing and obstructing rangers and using blinding powder for the pet if it follows you still work. Don’t forget steal if traited for sleight of hand can be used defensively as well. Thief still has the tools necessary to survive and keep on fighting.

Yes, they’ve only increased the duration by 50%, no big deal. Same ’ol, same ’ol…????

Your suggestion is to use “obstructions”? Seriously? Is this some new skill I don’t know about? So every time I get hit with Sick ‘em or Goggles I’ll just duck behind the nearest wall? LOL!!! Of course, why didn’t I think of that???

“Obstructions” aside, in my experience, 6s is a LOOOOONG time when you’re actually in a even-skilled fight. How many dodges/evades/dazes do you have to pull off in order to survive revealed for 6s? The answer is “too many”.

I’m not going to go through the list of possible thief builds and point out why most aren’t currently viable, but suffice to say that we’re running out of builds in a hurry. IMO, P/D condi is one of the last remaining builds that can hold its own, and tweaking it to withstand an unplanned 6s without stealth would make it no longer competitive to begin with.

You could, of course, make the argument that no one will run Sick ‘em or Goggles, but that’s a pretty weak argument. Thieves are prevalent in roaming and small group engagements, and running either of these two utilities is essentially a hard counter to the entire class.

aarias.4016:

Yes, they’ve only increased the duration by 50%, no big deal. Same ’ol, same ’ol...????????

Your suggestion is to use "obstructions"? Seriously? Is this some new skill I don’t know about? So every time I get hit with Sick ’em or Goggles I’ll just duck behind the nearest wall? LOL!!! Of course, why didn’t I think of that???

"Obstructions" aside, in my experience, 6s is a LOOOOONG time when you’re actually in a even-skilled fight. How many dodges/evades/dazes do you have to pull off in order to survive revealed for 6s? The answer is "too many".

I’m not going to go through the list of possible thief builds and point out why most aren’t currently viable, but suffice to say that we’re running out of builds in a hurry. IMO, P/D condi is one of the last remaining builds that can hold its own, and tweaking it to withstand an unplanned 6s without stealth would make it no longer competitive to begin with.

You could, of course, make the argument that no one will run Sick ’em or Goggles, but that’s a pretty weak argument. Thieves are prevalent in roaming and small group engagements, and running either of these two utilities is essentially a hard counter to the entire class.

All I’ve done is attempt to help rather than simply saying "you have x,y,z defenses", "this is no concern", or "L2P". Given that you made this thread you have a genuine issue, so it might be worth listening to people when they offer guidance rather than attempting to mock it. I say attempt, because if you did indeed know to do that already, you wouldn’t have made this thread; thus your mockery has backfired. If you want to play a berserker class you need to know how to kite and obstruct if you want to survive. Your opponent isn’t going to reduce their damage or toughness for you, so why should you reduce your mobility for them? You don’t have to evade attacks for 6 seconds (you could of course), you merely have to evade your way to a corner for obstruction or a drop that the AI won’t jump down, or a wall to shadow step up that the opponent can’t directly follow. It’s nothing new. Anyone who has clocked a lot of time on their thief will have done this while low health just to escape and wait for their heal on a number of occasions.

I think the answer is clear, go play your alts (im playing engi btw)
RIP my sweet thief prince.

Engi here.
I like it.
And yea, goggles are actually pretty popular because they are a precious stunbreaker, especially when it comes to power roaming-builds we often rely on them. On condi we would just slot in the Elixier Gun and use its belt ability as stunbreaker, but on the power line we just have two valid options in wvw. celestial hgh, mostly seen with nades, elixier B or C and elixier S which serves as stunbreaker in that case, or zerker S/D build with at least toolkit, goggles and a 2nd kit or random gadget.

We need at least one stunbreaker so we can compensate for our lack of stability, so especially on our rather bursty setups goggles are always present. I personally run a rather strange setup with flamethrower, rifle PBR and googles, paired with static discharge.
As soon as I spot a thief I put reveal on him, fire PBR’s belt-ability(criple applied), netshot(immob aplied), close in, FT #2, #3, rifle #3, PBR and rifle #5. It’s literally like plowing over thieves. So far all thieves I encountered hit downstate even before I could land rifle #5, and 3-5 flamejets later they were killed.

Still engis have two huge weakspots:
cc’s and condis. put out a load of them and you have a good chance against most builds. And regarding reveal: how about you stealth before we reach a 1.2k range to you, close in and stun us!? Granted, Analyze can be used even while cc’d, but if you chain stun us we don’t have a chance to get our rotas in action… And most builds will only have exactly ONE stunbreaker… so bait us into using it.

I main as thief and I don’t know… I really see only good changes here. I never relied on perma stealth, it was never what this class is all about, stealthing once-twice in combat dodging, smart moves made this class unique while we have no cooldowns. Some of our skills were even buffed, so I really can’t complain

Arantheal.7396:

Still engis have two huge weakspots:
cc’s and condis. put out a load of them and you have a good chance against most builds.

Sadly, i don’t believe there is any thief builds that can chain cc’s like that (maybe s/p can come close?) and our only condi set (p/d) is heavily reliant on stealth.

And regarding reveal: how about you stealth before we reach a 1.2k range to you, close in and stun us!?

The reason you won’t see many thieves doing that is mainly because; thieves do not have nearly as much stealth as many people seem to think they do. we could either use an utility (with longgg cooldowns), use our heal before the fight even begins (ahhhh!) or blow most of our initiative to achieve what your thinking. just to get closer than 1.2k range? that’s insane. and the end result would be~ we get to backstab once. what then? x.x

Granted, Analyze can be used even while cc’d, but if you chain stun us we don’t have a chance to get our rotas in action… And most builds will only have exactly ONE stunbreaker… so bait us into using it.

most thief builds have exactly one stun :P (there are no more stuns to pick from)

To make it fair we should have a skill that sends their pet away for 6 seconds or prevent the engineer from using any kits for 6 seconds.

ANet didn’t want any hard counters. Yeah right… That is pretty much all this game has evolved to. The fact that they give skills to other professions that completely shut down the professions main defensive and offensive mechanic as well as an ENTIRE TRAIT LINE is just so kittening stupid I don’t even know where to begin!

/rant

Geiir.7603:

The fact that they give skills to other professions that completely shut down the professions main defensive and offensive mechanic as well as an ENTIRE TRAIT LINE is just so kittening stupid I don’t even know where to begin!

Impact.2780:

aarias.4016:

Yes, they’ve only increased the duration by 50%, no big deal. Same ’ol, same ’ol…????

Your suggestion is to use “obstructions”? Seriously? Is this some new skill I don’t know about? So every time I get hit with Sick ‘em or Goggles I’ll just duck behind the nearest wall? LOL!!! Of course, why didn’t I think of that???

“Obstructions” aside, in my experience, 6s is a LOOOOONG time when you’re actually in a even-skilled fight. How many dodges/evades/dazes do you have to pull off in order to survive revealed for 6s? The answer is “too many”.

I’m not going to go through the list of possible thief builds and point out why most aren’t currently viable, but suffice to say that we’re running out of builds in a hurry. IMO, P/D condi is one of the last remaining builds that can hold its own, and tweaking it to withstand an unplanned 6s without stealth would make it no longer competitive to begin with.

You could, of course, make the argument that no one will run Sick ‘em or Goggles, but that’s a pretty weak argument. Thieves are prevalent in roaming and small group engagements, and running either of these two utilities is essentially a hard counter to the entire class.

All I’ve done is attempt to help rather than simply saying “you have x,y,z defenses”, “this is no concern”, or “L2P”. Given that you made this thread you have a genuine issue, so it might be worth listening to people when they offer guidance rather than attempting to mock it. I say attempt, because if you did indeed know to do that already, you wouldn’t have made this thread; thus your mockery has backfired. If you want to play a berserker class you need to know how to kite and obstruct if you want to survive. Your opponent isn’t going to reduce their damage or toughness for you, so why should you reduce your mobility for them? You don’t have to evade attacks for 6 seconds (you could of course), you merely have to evade your way to a corner for obstruction or a drop that the AI won’t jump down, or a wall to shadow step up that the opponent can’t directly follow. It’s nothing new. Anyone who has clocked a lot of time on their thief will have done this while low health just to escape and wait for their heal on a number of occasions.

These skills are shutting down our main defensive and offensive mechanic as well as rendering an entire trait line useless (good bye shadow arts). How can you even start to defend a 1200 range, instant reveal?! It has absolutely no counter.

Kite? On a thief? You’re kidding, right? The only thing we can do is run. Shadowstep and shortbow #5 and never to be seen again.

Geiir.7603:

To make it fair we should have a skill that sends their pet away for 6 seconds or prevent the engineer from using any kits for 6 seconds.

ANet didn’t want any hard counters. Yeah right… That is pretty much all this game has evolved to. The fact that they give skills to other professions that completely shut down the professions main defensive and offensive mechanic as well as an ENTIRE TRAIT LINE is just so kittening stupid I don’t even know where to begin!

/rant

exactly

why non-perma thief have to pay for those who use.
bad move anet

Wonder when we get a 1200 range instant cast skill that remove ranger pets for 6 seconds and take away the engineers ability to use toolbelt skills and kits for 6 seconds?

Geiir.7603:

Wonder when we get a 1200 range instant cast skill that remove ranger pets for 6 seconds and take away the engineers ability to use toolbelt skills and kits for 6 seconds?

Something like replacing the Ranger pet skill by :
“Pet Food”
“Place some delicious pet treat on the gound. All ranger pets in 1200 will be attracted to the lure and fall asleep for 10s once they take a bite”

Anet thinks that thieves should just stop playing PVP and WVW and start doing PVE with S/P builds XD

MrTabim.4127:

Anet thinks that thieves should just stop playing PVP and WVW and start doing PVE with S/P builds XD

In wvw yes revealed is totally game breaking. If I know a skilled thiefs are roaming around in a havoc group few of us will slot sic em. Dump a bunch of condition on thief and watch him burn. After thiefs are dead just occ and put normal skills back on.

MrTabim.4127:

Anet thinks that thieves should just stop playing PVP and WVW and start doing PVE with S/P builds XD

Nah, ArenaNet wants Thief in PvE using Spear and Harpoon Gun. So not only they don’t want us in PvP and WvW, they also don’t want to see us in PvE so they encourage us to stay under water — symbolic of being buried and forgotten.

Geiir.7603:

Kite? On a thief? You’re kidding, right? The only thing we can do is run. Shadowstep and shortbow #5 and never to be seen again.

So what would you call it when the ranger uses “Sic ’Em”, and I infiltrator’s return, move around a corner to obstruct the longbow, wait a few seconds for the pet to come to me, then Infiltrator’s strike to the ranger and continue attacking him while keeping away from the pet? What would you call it when the pet goes back to the ranger to attack me, and I evade it a couple of times while still dealing damage and positioning myself on the opposite side of the ranger as my return spot, then use infiltrator’s return out of range of the pet and to once again obstruct the ranger’s line of sight? What would you call it when I then wait 2 seconds while the ranger turns back around to face me and the pet makes it’s way toward me, away from the ranger again, and I shadow step back to the ranger, down him, cloak and dagger, and stomp him?

If you can’t handle a pet that has a few seconds of +40% damage without stealth, why was this post not made last year regarding 2v1 scenarios? A pet is less of a threat than another player. It actually tells me before this patch that you’d have been tanking the pet which is something that should be worked on. I mean, what’s the point of building for survival through evades and mobility if you don’t use it?

I would rather they added a see invisible instead of forcing revealed.

nopoet.2960:

I would rather they added a see invisible instead of forcing revealed.

wow, this is actually a great idea. allows counter-play to stealth, yet still allows us to try to get a stealth attack off. They may have to make it longer like 6s to 8s to compensate, but I’d prefer that then the current iteration

ya i agree +1

revealed = 0 condition removal. 0 survival skills

from the second revealed is applied to u … u are only playing 50% of the thief class because of how many skill depend on stealth :S….

revealed = “OP”
in anything besides pve

Impact.2780:

Geiir.7603:

Kite? On a thief? You’re kidding, right? The only thing we can do is run. Shadowstep and shortbow #5 and never to be seen again.

So what would you call it when the ranger uses “Sic ’Em”, and I infiltrator’s return, move around a corner to obstruct the longbow, wait a few seconds for the pet to come to me, then Infiltrator’s strike to the ranger and continue attacking him while keeping away from the pet? What would you call it when the pet goes back to the ranger to attack me, and I evade it a couple of times while still dealing damage and positioning myself on the opposite side of the ranger as my return spot, then use infiltrator’s return out of range of the pet and to once again obstruct the ranger’s line of sight? What would you call it when I then wait 2 seconds while the ranger turns back around to face me and the pet makes it’s way toward me, away from the ranger again, and I shadow step back to the ranger, down him, cloak and dagger, and stomp him?

If you can’t handle a pet that has a few seconds of +40% damage without stealth, why was this post not made last year regarding 2v1 scenarios? A pet is less of a threat than another player. It actually tells me before this patch that you’d have been tanking the pet which is something that should be worked on. I mean, what’s the point of building for survival through evades and mobility if you don’t use it?

What you are describing here is not kiting. Kiting is keeping distance between you and your enemy while you deal damage to him and he can’t do it as effectively as you. P/D is a great example of kiting weapon sets. What you describe is running away, baiting his pet and breaking los. That has nothing to do with kiting.

Your idea again pressures everyone into sword builds. You think it is fair that ANet make stealth dependent weapon sets useless because some scrubs cried about stealth? Sic’em isn’t the worst, since that skill actually can be countered, but Analyze is borderline op. 1200 range instant cast – in other words; no counterplay at all.

As an end notice: when I play my Sword builds I regularly do what you described. But that is not kiting.

I’m sorry but if there’s got to be stealth in game, there’s got to be a stealth counter. Thieves can backstab you, evade a little, jump back to stealth, heal and backstab you again. If your build is so glassy that you can’t survive for 6 seconds, imagine how bad other glassy classes are…

And honestly, how many rangers have you seen using sic ‘em. I have only seen me using it and that is when I see a thief or mesmer, I don’t have it on my skill bar 24/7.

(Can’t comment on engi revealed, got no clue about it)

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

I’m sorry but if there’s got to be stealth in game, there’s got to be a stealth counter. Thieves can backstab you, evade a little, jump back to stealth, heal and backstab you again. If your build is so glassy that you can’t survive for 6 seconds, imagine how bad other glassy classes are…

And honestly, how many rangers have you seen using sic ‘em. I have only seen me using it and that is when I see a thief or mesmer, I don’t have it on my skill bar 24/7.

(Can’t comment on engi revealed, got no clue about it)

Try reading previous posts before you repeat what a non-thief player says every time.

Geiir.7603:

What you are describing here is not kiting. Kiting is keeping distance between you and your enemy while you deal damage to him and he can’t do it as effectively as you. P/D is a great example of kiting weapon sets. What you describe is running away, baiting his pet and breaking los. That has nothing to do with kiting.

Your idea again pressures everyone into sword builds. You think it is fair that ANet make stealth dependent weapon sets useless because some scrubs cried about stealth? Sic’em isn’t the worst, since that skill actually can be countered, but Analyze is borderline op. 1200 range instant cast – in other words; no counterplay at all.

As an end notice: when I play my Sword builds I regularly do what you described. But that is not kiting.

Semantics. The ranger and the pet are the same enemy – the pet is an aspect of the ranger, and “Sic ’Em” is a ranger’s skill. By doing what I described you are keeping out of reach thereby avoiding damage from an aspect of the enemy and nullifying his skill, while dealing damage. I call it kiting.

It’s not my idea, it’s an example to make a point. It just happens that I use S/D, and so my example will be from an S/D point of view. If I were using D/P, I’d do the same thing but with shadow shot for blinds instead of evade, and shadow step to create distance when the ranger uses “Sic ’Em”. A few seconds after, return to the ranger, shadow shot to him if he moved away from shadow return, and by the time the pet returns I’ll put down a black powder in time be able to stealth again.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

I’m sorry but if there’s got to be stealth in game, there’s got to be a stealth counter. Thieves can backstab you, evade a little, jump back to stealth, heal and backstab you again. If your build is so glassy that you can’t survive for 6 seconds, imagine how bad other glassy classes are…

And honestly, how many rangers have you seen using sic ‘em. I have only seen me using it and that is when I see a thief or mesmer, I don’t have it on my skill bar 24/7.

(Can’t comment on engi revealed, got no clue about it)

Try reading previous posts before you repeat what a non-thief player says every time.

Yes I don’t play thief. But I play a mesmer, and I could survive a ranger’s sic ‘em on my mesmer, granting I’d swap 2 skills before facing the ranger. I have done that many times on my mesmer and I had no trouble. I’m sure there’s got to be a single skill in your class that does not rely on stealth to survive.

If you can’t survive 6seconds without stealth you need to rework on your build/traits/skills… The OP stealth—>hit—>evade—>stealth—>heal—>hit, is gone. At least when you are fighting my ranger/engi.

Only shadow art noobs have trouble against stealth counters. Anet is going in the right direction with this change and wants more thief to stop using shadow arts and start actually taking more risk and skill in fights.

Good thieves aren’t affected by this change as they don’t take shadow arts anyways. If you look at pvp, thieves do well, d/p or s/d without SA, as you always have secondary defenses and are not overly reliant on stealth.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

I’m sorry but if there’s got to be stealth in game, there’s got to be a stealth counter. Thieves can backstab you, evade a little, jump back to stealth, heal and backstab you again. If your build is so glassy that you can’t survive for 6 seconds, imagine how bad other glassy classes are…

And honestly, how many rangers have you seen using sic ‘em. I have only seen me using it and that is when I see a thief or mesmer, I don’t have it on my skill bar 24/7.

(Can’t comment on engi revealed, got no clue about it)

Try reading previous posts before you repeat what a non-thief player says every time.

Yes I don’t play thief.

That’s where I stop reading, many thief builds are much more realiant on stealth than a mesmer. Mesmer can still use all his skill out of stealth. Unlike mesmer thief best way to deal with condi is tied with stealth.

You are obviously clueless, save yourself the embarrassment stop posting about things in which you have no experience.

vincecontix.1264:

You are obviously clueless, save yourself the embarrassment stop posting about things in which you have no experience.

He’s obviously not clueless. Nothing he’s said is wrong. If anything, considering that he doesn’t play thief just proves he has uncommon sense. Yes I said uncommon.. There was once a time when it was common. Good times.

I’ll give a tip to all the SA thieves crying because rangers are “op”:
Interrupt the Rapidfire.

If we’re giving tips, keep a warrior’s stolen skill handy =P. Some of these flavour of the month rangers are so clueless that they will keep auto attacking with longbow while you reflect...

ulcimql.2516:

A thief has at least 4 options for defense: mobility, cc, evades and stealth. I have yet to see a build that does not cover at least 2 of them.That means you should always have an alternative defense even if your build is heavily reliant on stealth. In fact you should consider playing something with very low stealth access for a while. It will only make you a better player and help you deal with revealed more efficiently in the future.

I’m not interested in commenting on revealed skills, just your comment in particular.

You don’t play thief, don’t dole out advice on things you clearly don’t understand.

vincecontix.1264:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

I’m sorry but if there’s got to be stealth in game, there’s got to be a stealth counter. Thieves can backstab you, evade a little, jump back to stealth, heal and backstab you again. If your build is so glassy that you can’t survive for 6 seconds, imagine how bad other glassy classes are…

And honestly, how many rangers have you seen using sic ‘em. I have only seen me using it and that is when I see a thief or mesmer, I don’t have it on my skill bar 24/7.

(Can’t comment on engi revealed, got no clue about it)

Try reading previous posts before you repeat what a non-thief player says every time.

Yes I don’t play thief.

That’s where I stop reading, many thief builds are much more realiant on stealth than a mesmer. Mesmer can still use all his skill out of stealth. Unlike mesmer thief best way to deal with condi is tied with stealth.

You are obviously clueless, save yourself the embarrassment stop posting about things in which you have no experience.

aand…

Lifestealer.4910:

Only shadow art noobs have trouble against stealth counters. Anet is going in the right direction with this change and wants more thief to stop using shadow arts and start actually taking more risk and skill in fights.

Good thieves aren’t affected by this change as they don’t take shadow arts anyways. If you look at pvp, thieves do well, d/p or s/d without SA, as you always have secondary defenses and are not overly reliant on stealth.

Impact.2780:

vincecontix.1264:

You are obviously clueless, save yourself the embarrassment stop posting about things in which you have no experience.

He’s obviously not clueless. Nothing he’s said is wrong. If anything, considering that he doesn’t play thief just proves he has uncommon sense. Yes I said uncommon.. There was once a time when it was common. Good times.

See, even thief players disagree with you. You DO have skills to survive that do not rely on stealth. You just don’t want to use them and raging because you lost the hit, stealth, heal, hit “tactic”

So yeah I’m clueless. You must be one of those thieves that when they get Sic’em on them run like headless chickens spaming stealth skills and wondering why they don’t work.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

You DO have skills to survive that do not rely on stealth. You just don’t want to use them and raging because you lost the hit, stealth, heal, hit “tactic”

it’s not just the single “tactic”. it disables an entire trait line and therefore disables another one (at least) of our possible builds.

this would be like giving thieves the ability to shut down the entire wilderness survival trait line or inventions trait line. this would never fly.

this isn’t balance.

nopoet.2960:

I would rather they added a see invisible instead of forcing revealed.

this would be fine and makes a ton more sense.

giving the pet (or even pet+ranger) or the individual engineer using goggles the ability to see us would be an example of good balance. triggering revealed is not.

Mahkno.7593:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

You DO have skills to survive that do not rely on stealth. You just don’t want to use them and raging because you lost the hit, stealth, heal, hit “tactic”

it’s not just the single “tactic”. it disables an entire trait line and therefore disables another one (at least) of our possible builds.

this would be like giving thieves the ability to shut down the entire wilderness survival trait line or inventions trait line. this would never fly.

this isn’t balance.

It does not “disable” it. It just counters it. It’s not like you have revealed 24/7 on you…

Ballance?! Being untargeted because of stealth spam is ballance? Yeah right…

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Mahkno.7593:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

You DO have skills to survive that do not rely on stealth. You just don’t want to use them and raging because you lost the hit, stealth, heal, hit “tactic”

it’s not just the single “tactic”. it disables an entire trait line and therefore disables another one (at least) of our possible builds.

this would be like giving thieves the ability to shut down the entire wilderness survival trait line or inventions trait line. this would never fly.

this isn’t balance.

It does not “disable” it. It just counters it. It’s not like you have revealed 24/7 on you…

Ballance?! Being untargeted because of stealth spam is ballance? Yeah right…

Please stop posting. You have no idea what you’re talking about. You’re obviously annoyed by the stealth mechanic, and wearing said dislike on your sleeve as some sort of badge of honor rather than the biasing silliness it is.

Just to help you though – A skill which applied revealed on a thief absolutely DISABLES all points in SA – all of the minor’s are stealth related, and all the good Major’s (except venom share, which is garbage) rely on stealth. It’s a skill that says “kitten all your points in SA” – It’s exactly the same as if thief got an instant cast no animation ability that instantly despawned a Ranger’s pet for 6 seconds – it’d be ridiculously unfair to BM rangers. Note that there’s no other skill in the game that so specifically targets 1 or 2 classes and renders potentially ~45% of trait points worthless for the duration with no counter.

The very obvious and very fair solution to “apply revealed” skills has already been suggested – just have the skill cause stealth to not make the player invisible – the end result is the same (even if the thief/mesmer/etc is in stealth, you can see them) without potentially shutting down points in a trait line.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

It does not “disable” it. It just counters it. It’s not like you have revealed 24/7 on you…

Ballance?! Being untargeted because of stealth spam is ballance? Yeah right…

no. by definition it does in fact (temporarily) disable shadow arts traits.

stealth/being untargeted doesn’t prevent thieves from taking damage.

i have no problem with balanced counters to stealth (like the other example of ‘seeing invisible’). however, sic ‘em and analyze aren’t examples of a balanced counters unless the devs rework the shadow arts line to not require stealth for all the things.

Before this update mesmer were able to stealth over revealed status, but our stealth did not stack as of consequence.

Now they made stealth the same across the board…. Likely due to the changes of allowing other classes to pin reveal on players….

Mesmer understands your sorrow…

Mahkno.7593:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

You DO have skills to survive that do not rely on stealth. You just don’t want to use them and raging because you lost the hit, stealth, heal, hit "tactic"

it’s not just the single "tactic". it disables an entire trait line and therefore disables another one (at least) of our possible builds.

this would be like giving thieves the ability to shut down the entire wilderness survival trait line or inventions trait line. this would never fly.

this isn’t balance.

So it boils down to a specific skill with a high damage-capable pet, used by a damage built ranger (i.e a type of build), being able to counter a thief build, and instead of supporting the idea of adapting one’s play style, learning how to deal, or modifying the build, you are calling for a revert. Firstly, this is how the meta changes. Something new comes along which makes someone previously used less viable or more likely to be countered, and so that falls out of the meta to be replaced by something else. Secondly, how do you suppose the rangers felt not being able to run berserker stats before because of berserker thieves? And yet here you are moaning about not being able to run a build with a couple of stealth traits because that particular type of ranger exists. Calling unbalanced one build type with "Sic ’Em" that ranger has because it counters your shadow arts build is a terrible way to argue for thief, because by that logic, thief should be nerfed. Thief as a class prevents almost every class from running berserker stats effectively in TPvP.