Guild Wars 2

Hi guys,

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAsY6YlsMp0pdPx8J0PRBNhwdtVz8LsWB6LJA-T1CEABLqShTKNI4BAko6KbpE0gTAATKzyZ/h20PAwBB4hjAAA-w

There are no infusions or food on purpose as I’m unsure yet what to use.

I’ve been playing war/guard so far and been struggling with thief first few days being so squishy with no room for error and was getting my kitten handed to me way too many times but after lots of practice in pvp and WvW I’m kinda settled on s/d p/d – I didn’t really connect with SB and while I do realize p/d is mostly for condi I managed to get some nice kills on p/d with this build. I had some fun with D/P P/D but I really liked the sword cleave and the infiltrator strike/return, I do miss the blinds tho…

My questions:

1. S/D P/D thoughts?
2. Since I wanna minimize ascended armor crafting what do you think of the 2 Valkyrie / 4 Zerker (as I wanna use same armor in PVE as well)? Would you use more valk/pvt?
3. Is 33% crit high enough for s/d thief?
4. What do you think of the 2/0/6/3/3 vs 2/0/6/0/6 – I really like the dodge speed for WvW and endurance return for constant evade – can I live without the steal daze & boon strip (note sword 3 LS is also boon strip)?

1. S/D P/D can work very well. Usually use p/d against condi classes with alot of aoe.

2. Tbh with a full SA tree and a bit of acro, you don’t really need that many defensive gear pieces.

3. I would trade off some of your defensive items for more offensive pieces, get that crit % up a bit more.

4. I personaly prefer the daze on steal as I think it can be the turning point in a fight if used correctly. However I have run your traits in the past and can tell you it works just fine. Personal preference.

Here are the changes I would make if I were in your position:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAsY6YlsMp0pdPx8J0PRBNhwdtVz8LsWB6LJA-T1CEABLqShe6HI4BAko6KbpE0gTAATK7aSpQO7PAwBB4hjAAhAEMBA-w

good luck.

1.S/d P/d is good in some situations but maybe d/p could suit the build better than p/d? It comes down to preference but both are nice compliments to the set.

2.With SA and evade spam you won’t need soldier pieces at all and will ruin your damage if you take them (I’d go with the standard valk armor with zerk everything else because then you’re speccing for damage while your traits give you survivability.

3. 33% is a bit low. By simply switching out gear and blinding powder (replace with agility signet for more prec, dodges, and condi cleanse) and taking food with precision buffs you can easily reach 46% and then have 62% when pack rune’s fury bonus kicks in. (the standard setup that I talked about lets you achieve this kind of stat)

4. I love playing with 2/0/6/3/3 for the extreme survivability which is nice to have in wvw due to all the ganking that goes on there. With the right equipment and trait choices you can still pump out a ton of damage to give you the ability to completely murder your foes.

I thought some of your trait choices were a bit unnecessary so I made a few changes but tried to stick to the principle of the build. Maybe this what you’re looking for?
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZEQRAsY6YlsMp0pdPxwJ0PRBNhwdtSz8LsWB6LKA-TVCEABLq+DBnAgtUCykyPDeAA5s/Qb6HA4gA8wRAIAACwNbz2sNDG6QH6QH6Q7mD9mD9mDtMA5jB-w

To explain the infusion of shadow change:
This I thought would serve the build better due to the set being fairly initiative heavy and I figured getting initiative back when you stealth could help you maintain a good level over the course of a long fight where you will be needing to have a high initiative pool constantly.

Let me know if I’ve helped or if you have any questions and good luck gaming!

You like sword cleave, and inf return etc, but miss blind. What about playing S/P? its our least played sets, but has great damage potential

Thank you for the thoughtful answers guys.

Doug, yes I def I went a bit more defensive than necessary as I wanted to feel safer a bit being kinda new to all glass cannon build but I think you guys are right, dead opponent is more important than being a bit more tanky :-)

Ario, I tried d/p as main and loved it too in some cases but felt s/d was safer for me with the evades and the teleports, as for having it as 2nd set I tried that too but p/d proved itself great for me as 2nd set when I’m against classes I don’t know their skills so well or if I wanna go a bit on the defensive, p3 is also great as a quick gap opener while doing dmg.
You and Doug basically said the same (about the solider pcs/crit chance) but I think I’ll stay with 2 valk/4 zerk as I want this set to be PVE as well, eventually if I get to the same stats with accessories/weps (armor being only 50% or so from stats) I don’t think it would matter which armor I chose, isn’kitten
I’m gonna take the trait change you suggested for a test drive, I sometimes run out of initiative as I’m not super efficient, I also thought about changing the stealth speed trait to the vigor region one as I already have 25% speed from pack runes but both of these traits comes from me wanting an “exit” from the fight – stealth, blind the enemy and run run run LOL

Mompen, I tried everything even S/P, I liked it too but S3 felt like I was a warrior doing 100b or maybe I was doing it wrong, plus no cloak on demand on that set gonna be kinda hard for me being kinda nub

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAsY6YlsMp0pdPx8J0PRBNhwdtVz8LsWB6LJA-TlCEABLqSBBPAgEVXZLlgMp8zgTAQO7P0m+BAOIAPcEAIFg5CtA-w

Basically just put in the food I’d use along with changing the two soldier pieces to zerker. That is of course optional change but just what I would do. Especially if you have the guard stacks hp won’t be a huge issue and stealth + toughness you already have will be good enough for mitigation.

As far as the food, I think the lifesteal food and sharpening stones (don’t need to use the ogre ones just whatever price/level you want to use with clearly the highest level ones being the best) are the best options. However, another option with your build would be http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Orrian_Truffle_and_Meat_Stew. This gives more dodges and allows for might on dodge (though keep in mind the +40% recharge does NOT stack with vigor).

As a note, I really dislike Shadow Arts traitline past putting 2 points into it. Its a line that emphasizes passive play and sitting in stealth for as long as possible. Now that just simply isn’t how I believe thief should be played and its not how I play thief. I really do think the best way to get better at thief and learn the glassy specs is to just play them from the start and not learn the bad habits of SA.

That being said your build should work well for what you want to do.

Helly, I guess it’s more of a philosophical debate on thief play style, I personally like it assassin creed style, for the in your face active playstyle I have a war and medi guard.
And TBH, for now it’s not like I have a choice the 6 in SA saved my life every single time lol

Bhagwan.1784:

Helly, I guess it’s more of a philosophical debate on thief play style, I personally like it assassin creed style, for the in your face active playstyle I have a war and medi guard.
And TBH, for now it’s not like I have a choice the 6 in SA saved my life every single time lol

That’s kind of the point I’m making. IMO learning how to perform active defense on any class is better than turning to a traitline to perform that defense for you. Especially when the traitline is inherently selfish. It matters less as a solo roamer, but if you group up it starts to make a difference.

If I wanted resident sleeper style of play, I’d just take a nap instead.

But play how you want, doesn’t impact me at all and hopefully you don’t view the comments as a personal attack.

Well Helly, the reason it’s all good for him to take SA is because 1) he said he’s newer so it’s better for him to get comfortable with his class and weapons before he tries something different and 2) He can still perform active defenses. All shadow arts is going to be doing for him is giving him some extra sustain throughout a fight. (which considering the amount of ganks that happen in wvw wouldn’t be a bad thing to have) Building to the strength of a build (in this case stealth) is much more productive than hindering it to prove a point to other people. If thieves are gonna be hate on for using SA why don’t we hate on eles for using water attunement or arcana? Why don’t we hate on warriors for using the defensive line and stances, Those aren’t active defenses. There’s no difference between those and thief shadow arts. All of them are defensive sustain lines for their respective classes and are not as braindead as you people seem to think.

Ario.8964:

If thieves are gonna be hate on for using SA why don’t we hate on eles for using water attunement or arcana? Why don’t we hate on warriors for using the defensive line and stances, Those aren’t active defenses. There’s no difference between those and thief shadow arts. All of them are defensive sustain lines for their respective classes and are not as braindead as you people seem to think.

It comes down to what the traitlines offer and how well the traitlines synergize with the team. For eles, using water traitline allows them to provide more group support/healing while also giving them more sustain to allow them to fulfill the role of bruiser/1v1 hero. That is the role of the d/d ele currently, provide some condi cleanse and support while being able to self sustain in fights. Arcana is largely support (besides vigor on crit) with the elemental attunement giving group boons and also allows for more blasts with earth dodge and more sustain with water dodge. For warriors, the stance line allows them to have more self sustain so they don’t have to rely on allies as much, which fits their role as frontline/point holder.

These are fundamentally different than the role of thieves in a fight. SA gives you more sustain and results in a dramatic dropoff in damage. Wonderful, you’ve lost one of the biggest strengths thieves bring for a group. If you’re taking it over trickery you’re losing boon steal, interrupt, and group fury/might/swiftness. Taking DA or CS over SA is just a superior fulfillment of the thieves role within the game.

And if you don’t think that sitting in stealth is brain dead, which is what SA is specifically built to do, I don’t know what to tell you.

The reason I advised going for not using SA is it really covers up for mistakes you make. If you’re new to a class, you’re not going to learn as quickly if you’re attempting to cover up your mistakes from the very start. Its a video game, if you want to improve its better to remove the training wheels and go from there than to keep the wheels on and telling yourself you can ride the bike.

You’re welcome to disagree and continue believing that SA is a good traitline.

Helly, this build is meant to be 100% selfish solo roaming fun if I want to roam with a group and provide team support I just use my guard or war – both excellent for that purpose, Thief IMO is meant to be solo assassin style able to vanish into thin air when he wants to.
Hell even ANet describes thief as “Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air” – but I guess to each his own.
As Ario said me being a nub thief all SA is giving me is basically some room for error, I still notice my mistakes when my health goes down too quickly, without it I just become discouraged from being 2-3 shot especially when someone gets the first hit on me or die too much and have to run again from the wp – what fun is that?
Anyways thanks for the feedback.
Btw Ario I’ve been playing diff weapon sets for a while now and I think I’m gonna settle on s/d d/p – after getting used to the style of combat d/p feels much strong than p/d for finishing off the opponent with HS.
I’m still conflicted as for dagger storm vs basilisk venom for the elite, dagger storm inside P5 or against rangers especially just feels too good

Not gonna lie, you’d have to be pretty stupid to not think it’s a good traitline. From a support perpective it’s bad but it’s good at fulfilling its role therefore making it a good traitline.

Besides, we are not talking about pvp, he asked for a SOLO roaming build not a pvp teamfighting build. SA differs in usefulness depending on the setting in which it will be used. And you also proved my point with your post, SA is the thieves sustain line as water is for eles and defense if for warriors. I don’t care about their role as I know those things already. The point I was making and continue to make is thatSA is a sustain line that benefit thieves as solo roamers in wvw especially due to the large amount of ganks that occur in that type of setting. normally you won’t have help so you need to be able to be self reliant in an outnumbered fight because you won’t have a team to back you up and you won’t be responsible for supporting others. Therefore, I continue to be correct in this argument and my point is made.

Besides, no thief just sits in stealth as that is completely counterproductive as you are letting an opponent reset by not applying pressure to said enemy. Get out of the narrow minded view that you are getting from pvp and let people play their way in wvw. If I’m gonna have to fight 1v3 or 1v4 I’m taking all the advantages I can get for that fight. It’s not having training wheels to try to get the upper hand I na fight. Ut’s better for him to be able to cover his mistakes in a fight and keep going rather than just die all the time. Once he gets more comfortable with what he’s playing THEN he can drop SA as I have done and go for a full trickery setup. But it’s no good for someone to just die over and over again. The mistakes that SA covers up will allow him to actually win sometimes and not end up quitting over pure frustration.

There’s pros and cons to it but in wvw SA is a perfectly reasonable choice for a solo roamer who is newer to the thief class. Disagree all you want but we are not talking about professionals we are talking about someone who is just picking up the class. They need a bit of forgiveness every now and again.

saw this build, tested it, fell in love with it.
was very similar to a build i was running, with stronger trait choices.

i used the same traits except i traded cloaked in shadow for master of deception. your defensive utilities will be up far more often, allowing you to make use of your stealth traits better as needed.

ran s/d d/p with energy/battle sigs on each swap, pack runes and zerker set.

if youre thinking about getting some survivability in there, i suggest soldier chest and leggings and weapons and zerker everything else.

I like d/p 0/0/6/2/6…

Now with a bit more experience under my belt I actually changed the build to 2/0/6/0/6 with all zerk accessories:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAsY4alsMp0pdPx8J8PNBNhwdtVz8O83yaFA-T1CBABXqSRlqrcmSQsU2JxDAAgDCQWKFKa/h80PwwJAIgjAApAYVYE-w

I find that the extra HP doesn’t really help me much when I make mistakes so I bettet kill them quicker lol, also people play much worse being on the defensive – take them down to 50% on first burst and it’s a whole other game…
Before I have 5/5 guard stacks I may use 2 soldier rings but I change them to zerk/valk as soon as I have the stacks and have 16.5k hp this way which I feel is fine.

I underestimated the 6 on trickery and daze on steal previously but I find it absolutely necessary vs certain classes it just interrupts everything in an emergency (guardian whirling wrath as a good example) and just overall amazing trait with lower recharge, I feel I need much less dodges this way and I also have sword 3 for extra evade, for roam speed I just switch BP with signet of shadows for running distances.

As for cloaked in shadows I feel it saves me every single time when I go stealth and see misses around me of peops hammering my last seen spot or my shadow refuge area, haven’t really tested lower CD on deception (master of deception) – might try that.

The way I use this build is I open on S/D with basilisk, burst as much as I can evade a bit mess with their minds with jukes and when I’m ready to go for the kill (HP <50%) I switch to D/P for full on close combat melee with tons of blinds and when they are really close to dead I start using HS, before that I just use shadow shot, p5 / auto and steals.
If I’m fighting a group or another thief I find sword much better to pin them down and cleave better inside refuge, basically just experience experience until your fingeres go auto mode and you don’t have to think which skill/combo to use

I can post my skill rotations for bursts / gap closing / emergency exit if anyone is interested.