Guild Wars 2

Credit goes to Daecollo

Some of them are the same, some of them changed, but this makes the thief more passive after they nerf our classes damage abilites.

Back Fighting has been removed, the thief automatically deals 25% more damage on his downed abilities. (reason: nobody takes this trait, its worthless.)

Keen observer has been removed. (because its worthless, a thief is almost never over 90% health unless hes using a backstab build which kills people faster then they can count, since they are nerfing it, this trait needs to go.)

Side Strike has been removed and moved, it is now Critical Strikes 5 point trait.

Opportunist has been removed, its nerf on beta to make it 1s CD made it worthless for pistols, its been changed so its good for every spec instead of just a few. It has been replaced by quick breaths.

Signets of Power has been removed, its only good for a couple builds like backstab and old pistol whip.

Thrill of the Crime’s buff was changed to be 30 seconds, but what it grants has been spread around all to be more passive.

Thief now has 2-3 different kinds of group utility if he specs for it.

Deadly Arts:
Given Traits:
5: Serpent’s Touch: stealing applies poison. (10 seconds.)
15: Lotus Poison: Weaken targets for 3 seconds whenever you poison them.
25: Exposed Weakness: Deal 10% more damage when target has a condition.
I: Deep Wounds: Gain +40 Power for each unused signet.
II: Corrosive Traps: Traps apply 5 stacks of vulnerability (5s) and now use ground targeting. (900m range, you can now throw traps.)
III: Mug: Deal damage when stealing. (25% less then before.)
IV: Venomous Strength: When applied, each venom’s grant 3 seconds of fury.
V: Potent Poison: Increases the healing reduction on your poisons by 17%, your poisons last 33% longer.
VI: Sundering Strikes: 66% to cause 1 vulnerability for 5 seconds on a critical hit.
VII: Improvisation: When you use a utility skill, you recieve 1 initative.
VIII: Quick Venoms: Venom Skills recharge 50% faster.
IX: Dagger Training: Dagger damage is increased by 5%.
XI: Panic Strike: Critical hits have a 33% chance to grant (5s) of swiftness and vigor.
XII: Residual Venom: When a venom is cured, that venom is reapplyed for an extra 2 seconds.

Critical Strikes:
Given Traits:
5: Side Strike: 10% chance to critical hit when hitting a foe from behind or the side.
15: Quick Breaths: Increases initative regeneration rate by 0.2 seconds. (1.4 instead of 1.6.)
25: Killer’s Instinct: 10% critical damage when hitting a foe from behind or the side.
I: Furious Retaliation: When you use steal, you and your allies gain 20 seconds of fury.
II: Chains of Power: 33% chance on critical hit to gain 10 seconds of might.
III: Shared Revenge: When you use steal, you and your allies 5 stacks of Might for 20 seconds.
IV: Concealed Defeat: Shadowstep away gain 5 seconds of stealth when downed.
V: Pistol Mastery: +10% damage with pistols.
VI: Practiced Tolerance: Main and Offhand Pistol skills cost 1 less initative. (not dual skills.)
VII: Ankle Strikes: Critical Hits have a 33% chance to cripple foes for 1.5 seconds.
VIII: Signet Use: Reduces Signet Recharge Rate by 20%. Signets are now instant cast.
IX: Comboing Strikes: Dual Skills cost 1 less initative.
X: Executioner: Deal 20% more damage on targets below 33% health. (nerfed, it was under 50%.)

Shadow Arts:
Granted Traits:
5: Last Refuge: Use Blinding Powder when your health reaches 25%, this trait ignores “revealed debuff”. (90s cooldown.)
15: Meld With Shadows: stealing now grants 2s of stealth, stealth skills last 1 second longer.
25: Blanket of Shadows: Gain 3 seconds of Protection when you stealth.
I: Master of Deception: Deception skills recharge 20% faster.
II: Slowed Pulse: -25% Condition Duration.
III: Shadow Protector: When you stealth an ally, they gain regeneration for 10 seconds.
IV: Shadow’s Embrace: Remove one condition every 3 seconds while in stealth.
V: Infusion of Shadows: 100% Increased Initative regeneration while stealthed.
VI: Cloaked in Shadow: Going Stealth blinds nearby foes.
VII: Power Shots: Harpoon gun and pistol shots have a 100% chance to pierce the target.
VIII: Hidden Thief: -50% Damage Reduction while stealthed.
XI: Leeching Venoms: Steal Health when triggering a venom.
XII: Venomous Aura: When you use a venom skill, you apply the effects to all nearby allies as well.

Acrobatics:
Granted Traits:
5: Expeditious Dodger: 50% Endurance Regeneration.
15: Feline Grace: Dodging Returns some of the endurance used.
25: Fluid Strike: Increases outgoing damage by 10% while moving.
I: Descent of Shadows: Release blinding powder when you take falling damage. Take 50% less damage from falling. (no CD, because you can’t stealth for 30 seconds anymore.)
II: Power of Inertia: Gain 1 initative when you dodge.
III: Vigorous Recovery: Gain 20 seconds of vigor when you use a skill that heals you.
IV: Assassin’s Retreat: Gain Stability when you kill a foe.
V: Master Trapper: Traps recharge 33% faster, traps have a larger area.
VI: Fleet Shadow: Move 50% faster while in stealth. (speed buffs don’t stack, so 33% is useless.)
VII: Fleet of Foot: Dodging removes cripple and weakness from you. (10s cooldown.)
VIII: Pain Response: Gain 10s of regeneration when your health is below 90%. This effect cannot trigger more then once every 10 seconds.
IX: Quick Recovery: Cure a condition and gain 1 initative every 10 seconds.
X: Assassin’s Reward: Gain 200 base health per initative spent.
XI: Hard to Catch: Shadowstep away and cure all conditions when you are disabled. (60 second cooldown.)
XII: Quick Pockets: Gain 10s of stability when you use steal.

Trickery:
Given Traits:
5: Kleptomaniac: Stealing gives you 3 initative.
15: Preparedness: Increases maximum initative by 3.
25: Lead Attacks: Decreases damage taken by 2% per initiative.
I: Merciful Ambush: Create and Activate an ambush trap while reviving an ally. This effect can only occur once every 20 seconds.
II: Instinctual Responce: Use feathers to blind and stealth when you take more then 20% of your health in a single strike. (60s CD.)
III: Uncatchable: Cripple and Bleed targets near you when you dodge.
IV: Flanking Strike: Increases Damage by 5% when attacking a foe from behind or the side.
V: Thrill of the Crime: When you steal, you and your allies gain swiftness for 30 seconds.
VI: Long Reach: Increases Pistol and Short bow and steal range to 1200 meters.
VII: Bountiful Theft: using steal grants you and nearby allies vigor for 30 seconds, Up to two boons are ripped from your targets and also granted to your allies.
VIII: Trickster: Tricks recharge 20% faster, scorpion wire resets when you kill a foe and does 100% more damage.
IX: Initial Strikes: Attacks have a 20% chance to gain 1 initiative. (1s Cooldown.)
X: Ricochet: Pistol Shots have a 25% chance to bounce.
XI: Hastened Replenishment: You recieve 4 initiative when you use a healing skill.
XII: Sleight of Hand: Stealing no longer shadow steps you to the target, your next 3 “ranged” attacks daze the target for 1 second, this effect lasts 10 seconds. (this is perfect for pistols, since steal was always a melee thing…)

These would be my dream traits more or less, but I believe if they nerf the damage and damage traits, that this kind of thing needs to happen so the thief has more access to group buffs (group vigor/swiftness.).

Venoms are fixed this way (50% faster recharge and the cool down on the heal removed allows us to heal our group with it as effectively as shouts.), and Traps are fixed too (throwing them allows better ways to defeat opponents and set up battlefields.).

Several Damage traits nerfed, several utility traits buffed, more access to boons and better protection.

I love this new trait setup, it makes a lot more sense than the current one but i do hav some suggestions.
I don’t think splitting up Thrill of the Crime is a good idea because it makes it less efficient.
And wot happened to Hidden Killer, i like my 100% crit chance from stealth, make it a tier 3 trait in shadow arts or something
Also for Uncatchable (trickery III), i think its fine the way it is, dropping caltrops is visually more pleasing than just crippling and bleeding foes around you.

I’d love Corrosive Traps and Trickster just to encourage the use of stuff other than passive signet use + a stealth in PvE

The 5 sec stealth on downed state is too powerfull imo:) make it 2-3 max. Cause it is like both or downed ability in one move. And make a CD for 60sec.

I actually really love this. It’s not a scream for “buff my class to OP state” like all suggestions are.

However, I have to disagree that there should be “Steal” traits in the Critical Strikes path. They should stay in trickery, imo.

some good ideas, some not as good, some totally horrible.

Some are so OP is kinda ridicolous.

But at least more and more people are understanding that something is wrong with the thief >_>

And all those “passive” buffs you have put into “minor” traits to buff Steal actually show how lacklustre this mechanic is, and how desperately you want it changed ( or buffed).

Go on, but revision some of those ideas, because some of them are actually or OP or bad ( like leeching venom and venomous aura being both third tier, basically destroying the build, altough it’s a build i really HATE since it’s due to that build that venoms are so crap).

I’d love if we get traits like this. Most of them make total sense. A little OP someones, but… the idea is very useful.

I really want the devs to give us some feedback about their thoughts of the profession.

Well if you disagree with one feel free to post something else than just saying it’s OP… thanks @ everyone else.

Rukia.4802:

Well if you disagree with one feel free to post something else than just saying it’s OP… thanks @ everyone else.

The point is they’re so many it’s kinda difficult to keep the discussion focused lol.

Some suggestions don’t make sense, like the Residual Venoms: you’re applying conditions with the venoms, not a “venom” state. The moment you apply them, they act as all conditions do. Making poison 50% reducted heal instead of 33% wouldn’t work well when stacked with other professions poison, and as much as I would like it (as I mainly use Steal as Fake-Steal for this) 30 seconds swiftness (ie: perma swiftness with a bit of acrobatics for boon duration increase or trickery to reduce steal recharge) would be an insanely OP trait (and a tier 1!) not to mention it gives the swiftness to allies.

I agree on some stuff to change completly useless traits for very unusual and unpractical situations, but many changes on the list either would be impossible to implement in the game, or would be insanely OP.

Now that i’m back…

I agree, I wanted to re-edit that trait to be 50% Poison Duration, the extra healing wouldn’t make sense.

@ Lokheit: A lot of the traits are overpowered, but that is just it, look where they are, you would have to sacrifice a lot of dps (precision/critical damage.) to aquire them.

@Mrbig: Thief’s steal is way too burst oriented in nature, and all buffs associated with it help ONLY burst specs, there is not really any passive means to DPS.

@Pheonix the One: The trait is powerful, I wanted to nerf it to three seconds of stealth instead of 5 after thinking about it, but look which tree its in, you have to sacrifice a damage trait to aquire a survivability trait.

@Lokheit again: “30 seconds swiftness (ie: perma swiftness with a bit of acrobatics for boon duration increase or trickery to reduce steal recharge) would be an insanely OP trait” Warriors get -20% Signet Recharge as a first tier trait, which allows them to have 30(+30% boon duration if traited.) seconds of Fury/Swiftness/5 Stacks of Might, which can be up forever as well, and warrior is the most balanced class atm, they can spec for a lot more utility then that.

Having the thief sacrifice “A lot of damage” (Trust me I threw these traits around the trees pretty well.) to give the group almost perma swiftness would be a good idea, because currently we do not have any utility in pve dungeons or group pvp besides useless venoms.

The Vigor group buff however needs to be nerfed slightly to 25 seconds, so if you traited as a utility thief, you could give the group, 30 seconds of swiftness, 20 seconds of fury, 20 seconds of 5 stacks of might, and 25 seconds of vigor, this would make the thief excellent utility for the group, even though he has to sacrifice a lot of damage to do it, he could use alternatives like “traps” and conditions for damage.

And 1v1, swiftness is not that much seeing as we have signet of shadows (25% Movement speed increase.) movement speed increases do not stack.

The main idea is to put good traits all around so you see more types of thieves then the usually D/D, Shorbow combo. A lot of the non-damage traits are group oriented.

Shadow Arts 15 pt trait can’t be turned off, which means anyone with that many points in Shadow Arts cannot use the C/D -> steal combo. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but it’s worth thinking about. Should stealth on steal remain (part of) a pickable trait?

Well, the majority is calling out for Thief nerfs, but then we get threads like this one or the Sniper Rifle a few days ago asking for insane, game-breaking buffs. I guess that balances out, right?

Seriously, OP, do you honestly think this would be good for the game? This would make thieves so godmode powerful that no one would ever want to play any other class. Ever. Just look at…

V: Potent Poison: Increases the healing reduction on your poisons by 17%, your poisons last 33% longer.

Yes, adding a whole new condition just for us. A-net has their conditions balanced, no need to touch that. -33% is already huge.

VIII: Quick Venoms: Venom Skills recharge 50% faster.

Great idea. Literally every single recharge trait in the game reduces cooldowns by 20%, but we need 50% because we’re special snowflakes.

XI: Panic Strike: Critical hits have a 33% chance to grant (5s) of swiftness and vigor.

Permanent swiftness and vigor? That’s not OP at all.

XII: Residual Venom: When a venom is cured, that venom is reapplyed for an extra 2 seconds.

Yes. The counter to a condition build is condition removal, but that won’t work against us because we’re special.

5: Side Strike: 10% chance to critical hit when hitting a foe from behind or the side.
25: Killer’s Instinct: 10% critical damage when hitting a foe from behind or the side.

Yes, getting 24% crit chance and 40% crit damage merely from putting points into Critical Strikes is perfectly balanced.

IV: Concealed Defeat: Shadowstep away gain 5 seconds of stealth when downed.

As if we’re not already hard enough to stomp…

IX: Comboing Strikes: Dual Skills cost 1 less initative.

You’re right, we don’t have enough thieves spamming death blossom or pistol whip.

VII: Ankle Strikes: Critical Hits have a 33% chance to cripple foes for 1.5 seconds.

This much passive cripple would be way imbalanced. Cripple is tightly regulated because it absolutely wrecks melee, but this would let you use, say P/P and perma-cripple someone without ever using a cripple skill. Especially with your other pistol traits.

25: Blanket of Shadows: Gain 3 seconds of Protection when you stealth.
VIII: Hidden Thief: -50% Damage Reduction while stealthed.

Let’s see… stealth now gives you -66% damage in addition to dropping target and making you invisible. Seems perfectly balanced. After all, thieves are rightfully supposed to be god classes.

III: Shadow Protector: When you stealth an ally, they gain regeneration for 10 seconds.

This definitely needed to be doubled, because thieves were clearly meant to stack regeneration on allies.

5: Expeditious Dodger: 50% Endurance Regeneration.

Dodging every 3.5 seconds isn’t enough. We need to drop that to 2.8 seconds to be balanced.

V: Master Trapper: Traps recharge 33% faster, traps have a larger area.

See “Quick Venoms”.

II: Power of Inertia: Gain 1 initative when you dodge.

+60% initiative regeneration just from dodging? Seems fair.

VI: Fleet Shadow: Move 50% faster while in stealth. (speed buffs don’t stack, so 33% is useless.)

-66% damage and double initiative regeneration while in stealth just isn’t enough… what can we do? Oh, I know, we can make the thief move faster than anyone or anything else in the game while they’re an invisible, immortal god. That sounds great!

VIII: Pain Response: Gain 10s of regeneration when your health is below 90%. This effect cannot trigger more then once every 10 seconds.

Wait, seriously? Just like that, one trait, and we get permanent regeneration forever? Sign me up!

X: Assassin’s Reward: Gain 200 base health per initative spent.

Buffing this to 3x it’s permanent strength… it would be very easy to get 3+ initiative per second using your “new and improved” trait list. So that’s easily 500 hps base. That’s more self-healing than a Guardian gets. I guess we’re facetank bunkers now?

VII: Bountiful Theft: using steal grants you and nearby allies vigor for 30 seconds, Up to two boons are ripped from your targets and also granted to your allies.

YESSS! Thieves can grant permanent Vigor to our parties! BALANCE!

^ Yeah these 30/30/30/30/30 builds are pretty awesome.

Dacromir.6207:

Well, the majority is calling out for Thief nerfs, but then we get threads like this one or the Sniper Rifle a few days ago asking for insane, game-breaking buffs. I guess that balances out, right?

Seriously, OP, do you honestly think this would be good for the game? This would make thieves so godmode powerful that no one would ever want to play any other class. Ever. Just look at…

V: Potent Poison: Increases the healing reduction on your poisons by 17%, your poisons last 33% longer.

I said something about that above.

VIII: Quick Venoms: Venom Skills recharge 50% faster.

Venoms have a horribly long cool down and suck.

XI: Panic Strike: Critical hits have a 33% chance to grant (5s) of swiftness and vigor.

We give up 20% Damage bonus for it, its a major trait.

XII: Residual Venom: When a venom is cured, that venom is reapplyed for an extra 2 seconds.

Venoms should be special, they are venoms.

5: Side Strike: 10% chance to critical hit when hitting a foe from behind or the side.
25: Killer’s Instinct: 10% critical damage when hitting a foe from behind or the side.

They are nerfing all of our abilities, this makes us more like warriors.

IV: Concealed Defeat: Shadowstep away gain 5 seconds of stealth when downed.

We give up other things like damage, and I already stated above to nerf it a bit.

IX: Comboing Strikes: Dual Skills cost 1 less initative.

Nobody complains about death blossom or pistol whip, mostly back stab.

VII: Ankle Strikes: Critical Hits have a 33% chance to cripple foes for 1.5 seconds.

Oh No, Pistols actually will hurt people!

25: Blanket of Shadows: Gain 3 seconds of Protection when you stealth.
VIII: Hidden Thief: -50% Damage Reduction while stealthed.

Giving up regeneration and condition removal and stea—- you know what, look at our other traits.

III: Shadow Protector: When you stealth an ally, they gain regeneration for 10 seconds.

This definitely needed to be doubled, because thieves were clearly meant to stack regeneration on allies, yep, just like other classes!

5: Expeditious Dodger: 50% Endurance Regeneration.

Dodging every 3.5 seconds isn’t enough. We need to drop that to 2.8 seconds to be balanced.

V: Master Trapper: Traps recharge 33% faster, traps have a larger area.

See “Quick Venoms”.

II: Power of Inertia: Gain 1 initative when you dodge.

+60% initiative regeneration just from dodging? Seems fair.

VI: Fleet Shadow: Move 50% faster while in stealth. (speed buffs don’t stack, so 33% is useless.)

-66% damage and double initiative regeneration while in stealth just isn’t enough… what can we do? Oh, I know, we can make the thief move faster than anyone or anything else in the game while they’re an invisible, immortal god. That sounds great!

VIII: Pain Response: Gain 10s of regeneration when your health is below 90%. This effect cannot trigger more then once every 10 seconds.

Wait, seriously? Just like that, one trait, and we get permanent regeneration forever? Sign me up!

X: Assassin’s Reward: Gain 200 base health per initative spent.

Worthless Traits need buffed.

VII: Bountiful Theft: using steal grants you and nearby allies vigor for 30 seconds, Up to two boons are ripped from your targets and also granted to your allies.

I said something about it, lowering it to 25 seconds.

To be honest, we’re about to get a huge damage nerf, we need something to make up for this, GROUP utility perhaps?

Look at where all these traits are, they are spread around, you are not getting all of them without giving up something.

Vigor seems like something thieves should give to the party, warriors already give the party perma swiftness/vigor with warhorn, and we cannot?

Daecollo.9578:

^ Yeah these 30/30/30/30/30 builds are pretty awesome.

Okay, real build.

Shadow Arts: 25
Minor:

• Last Refuge: Use Blinding Powder when your health reaches 25%, this trait ignores “revealed debuff”. (90s cooldown.)
• Meld With Shadows: stealing now grants 2s of stealth, stealth skills last 1 second longer.
• Blanket of Shadows: Gain 3 seconds of Protection when you stealth.

Major:

• II: Slowed Pulse: -25% Condition Duration.
• VIII: Hidden Thief: -50% Damage Reduction while stealthed.

Acrobatics: 30
Minor:

• Expeditious Dodger: 50% Endurance Regeneration.
• Feline Grace: Dodging Returns some of the endurance used.
• Fluid Strike: Increases outgoing damage by 10% while moving.

Major:

• Power of Inertia: Gain 1 initative when you dodge.
• Assassin’s Reward: Gain 200 base health per initative spent.
• VI: Vigorous Recovery: Gain 20 seconds of vigor when you use a skill that heals you.

Critical Strikes: 15 Points
Minor:

• Side Strike: 10% chance to critical hit when hitting a foe from behind or the side.
• Quick Breaths: Increases initative regeneration rate by 0.2 seconds. (1.4 instead of 1.6.)

Major:

• Chains of Power: 33% chance on critical hit to gain 10 seconds of might.

Result
Stealth = immortality. While in stealth, I take -66% damage.

I take Runes of Melandru, so I get -50% condition duration and -25% stun duration, which is fantastic.

I can regenerate 14-16 initiative every 10 seconds, which means I get healed for 280-320 health per second with base healing, except that I have 250 healing from traits so no telling how high that goes.

I get +10% damage just from moving constantly, which is easy (twitch-strafe).

I have a base of 11% crit chance (21% from behind) and +15% crit damage. That will be easy to raise with gear, and because of my godmode defenses from stealth I can take full crit gear. Every crit has a 33% chance to give me 13s of might, so with 66% crit chance (11% base, 5% from sigil, 10% from behind, 40% from 840 precision on gear) I average 13s of might for every five hits. This also goes well with Omnomberry pie, which will heal me for an average of 141 health per attack, and my Sigil of Blood, which will heal 50-100 per attack (depending on attack volume).

TL;DR: Damage of someone in full berserker’s gear. -66% Damage while in stealth (which is almost always). Conditions on me last half as long. Self-heals for ~300 per second, in addition to 150-250 per attack.

I’d do damage like this and have defenses like this combined with this. I could solo a zerg.

.
..
…
BALANCED!

They are probably nerfing cloak and dagger to not stealth anymore.

Its more of an “idea” thread if they are nerfing the class as badly as I predict.

That is pretty abusive though, would probably have to redo the traits to be less powerful.

Daecollo.9578:

They are probably nerfing cloak and dagger to not cloak anymore.

That’s wild, baseless, unfounded speculation.

And it doesn’t change the fact that I just used your new, “completely balanced” traits to come up with a build that could massacre a group of five with no problems. It took me under 5 minutes to create, although longer to do the math and write it up.

Why don’t you respond to that build? Do you honestly think that is a balanced, fair build? Or are you just ignoring anything which proves that you’re wrong?

Dacromir.6207:

Daecollo.9578:

They are probably nerfing cloak and dagger to not cloak anymore.

That’s wild, baseless, unfounded speculation.

And it doesn’t change the fact that I just used your new, “completely balanced” traits to come up with a build that could massacre a group of five with no problems. It took me under 5 minutes to create, although longer to do the math and write it up.

Why don’t you respond to that build? Do you honestly think that is a balanced, fair build? Or are you just ignoring anything which proves that you’re wrong?

These are only just ideas, they can be balanced, 50% damage reduction could be 10 or 15% after changes, Whenever you add or take an idea, you always make it very high or powerful.

When you list ideas for traits, they always have to be exaggerated.

I always “assume” the worst when they say they are nerfing something about a build, but that is because I play SOE games.

Daecollo.9578:

When you list ideas for traits, they always have to be exaggerated.

No, they don’t.

Daecollo.9578:

These are only just ideas, they can be balanced, 50% damage reduction could be 10 or 15% after changes, Whenever you add or take an idea, you always make it very high or powerful.

These traits were presented as serious, balanced ideas, and certain people in this thread have been defending them as such. In addition, with some things the only thing that changed was the scale. For example, the only change you made to the healing on initiative from 70 to 200. This means that you weren’t presenting a rough idea of a new trait without worrying about scale, you actually thought it would be a good idea to raise the healing that high (hint: it isn’t).

Anyways, thread finished. The traits as presented are blatantly, ludicrously overpowered.

In the future, it would be better to present a few changes at a time, and back it up with reasoning. This thread had so many proposed changes that there’s no way we could adequately discuss them all. I didn’t even scratch the surface with my objections (for instance, why do you hate thief healers?). If you present a couple reasonable changes and explain why, you might actually get constructive discussion.

Dacromir.6207:

Daecollo.9578:

When you list ideas for traits, they always have to be exaggerated.

No, they don’t.

Daecollo.9578:

These are only just ideas, they can be balanced, 50% damage reduction could be 10 or 15% after changes, Whenever you add or take an idea, you always make it very high or powerful.

These traits were presented as serious, balanced ideas, and certain people in this thread have been defending them as such. In addition, with some things the only thing that changed was the scale. For example, the only change you made to the healing on initiative from 70 to 200. This means that you weren’t presenting a rough idea of a new trait without worrying about scale, you actually thought it would be a good idea to raise the healing that high (hint: it isn’t).

Anyways, thread finished. The traits as presented are blatantly, ludicrously overpowered.

In the future, it would be better to present a few changes at a time, and back it up with reasoning. This thread had so many proposed changes that there’s no way we could adequately discuss them all. I didn’t even scratch the surface with my objections (for instance, why do you hate thief healers?). If you present a couple reasonable changes and explain why, you might actually get constructive discussion.

Well, why don’t you offer some ideas?
Your good at this, you may be better then I am, we have high burst damage, stealth, mobility, low dps (damage per second.)

Give me traits that will make us good for the group like every other class.

What we know: we are going to recieve a damage nerf.

Daecollo.9578:

They are probably nerfing cloak and dagger to not stealth anymore.

Then they can just call it Dagger lol

Daecollo.9578:

Its more of an “idea” thread if they are nerfing the class as badly as I predict.

You’re wasting a lot of time rewriting things that don’t need to be changed.
I mean, seriously: Vigorous Recovery. In the context of a thief’s other skills (15-second heals), it’s amazing. And yet y’all are suggesting doubling the duration. Why? What is the point of writing that up at all?

i would not bash the OP so bad.

Surely his ideas are very imba, and sometimes really bad even for the thief itself ( like leeching venom and venomous aura both being 3rd tier, basically killing the venom share build , which i really believe should die, but only with a serious rework on venoms, since they become good only in venom share builds).

But those are just ideas. The thief is getting a damage nerf ( and that’s for sure) and i really can’t think at how they could buff the thief in other areas, since we’ve been complaining about the thief FROM ALPHA AND BETA TESTING and they did little to nothing.

Just take a look at Steal: untraited it’s basically the most lame mechanic ever seen, and we complained about it FROM THIEF RELEASE DAY, 2 YEARS AGO, and what did they do ?

They raised its CD ( LOLWUT) and made almost all Stolen skills ( like the spin to win or the 3 secs AoE fear or the 4 secs daze mace) insanely OP ( ROFLMAO).

When it comes to the thief, devs have very little ability to balance.

Dacromir.6207:

Daecollo.9578:

When you list ideas for traits, they always have to be exaggerated.

No, they don’t.

Daecollo.9578:

These are only just ideas, they can be balanced, 50% damage reduction could be 10 or 15% after changes, Whenever you add or take an idea, you always make it very high or powerful.

These traits were presented as serious, balanced ideas, and certain people in this thread have been defending them as such. In addition, with some things the only thing that changed was the scale. For example, the only change you made to the healing on initiative from 70 to 200. This means that you weren’t presenting a rough idea of a new trait without worrying about scale, you actually thought it would be a good idea to raise the healing that high (hint: it isn’t).

Anyways, thread finished. The traits as presented are blatantly, ludicrously overpowered.

In the future, it would be better to present a few changes at a time, and back it up with reasoning. This thread had so many proposed changes that there’s no way we could adequately discuss them all. I didn’t even scratch the surface with my objections (for instance, why do you hate thief healers?). If you present a couple reasonable changes and explain why, you might actually get constructive discussion.

This is a discussion thread and it really makes me lose hope for some of the thief community when all you do is come into an “idea” thread and say its OP, then move on without contributing anything of substance. Well, if you think its so OP, why don’t you offer some ideas that you think would be balanced. That’s the whole point of discussion, if you don’t come up with an ideas or improvements that will make it more balanced, why post at all?

FrozenLuv.6017:

Dacromir.6207:

Daecollo.9578:

When you list ideas for traits, they always have to be exaggerated.

No, they don’t.

Daecollo.9578:

These are only just ideas, they can be balanced, 50% damage reduction could be 10 or 15% after changes, Whenever you add or take an idea, you always make it very high or powerful.

These traits were presented as serious, balanced ideas, and certain people in this thread have been defending them as such. In addition, with some things the only thing that changed was the scale. For example, the only change you made to the healing on initiative from 70 to 200. This means that you weren’t presenting a rough idea of a new trait without worrying about scale, you actually thought it would be a good idea to raise the healing that high (hint: it isn’t).

Anyways, thread finished. The traits as presented are blatantly, ludicrously overpowered.

In the future, it would be better to present a few changes at a time, and back it up with reasoning. This thread had so many proposed changes that there’s no way we could adequately discuss them all. I didn’t even scratch the surface with my objections (for instance, why do you hate thief healers?). If you present a couple reasonable changes and explain why, you might actually get constructive discussion.

This is a discussion thread and it really makes me lose hope for some of the thief community when all you do is come into an “idea” thread and say its OP, then move on without contributing anything of substance. Well, if you think its so OP, why don’t you offer some ideas that you think would be balanced. That’s the whole point of discussion, if you don’t come up with an ideas or improvements that will make it more balanced, why post at all?

Because it is important and constructive to point out that the ideas as presented are bad, as long as I back it up with concrete reasoning. I did so by pointing out a prospective build that would give mind-blowing defenses and self-healing while allowing you to wear full berserker’s gear. It’s not my job to fix these bad ideas, because they change so much that it would take a novel to truly discuss this.

If you want constructive input, narrow the scope of your discussion a little bit. If you were to take a look at, say, the pistol-related traits and skills start a discussion on how to improve those, I’d be able to contribute to that. But to propose a massive set of sweeping, overpowered traits and then expect me to go through each and not only debunk it but also provide a reasonable alternative is underestimating my laziness.

So I had to spend 2-3 hours writing about each trait just so I can get a generalization about what you think. “They are all overpowered!”.

Take the time to rewrite why they are overpowered, and then suggest something that wouldn’t be so overpowered.

For example:

Hidden Thief: 50% Damage Reduction.
Change instead to: 33% “AOE” Damage Reduction.

Potent Poison: 50% Duration, 17% Extra Healing Decrease
Leave it as is at 33%, its fine.

Quick Venoms: 50% Venom Recharge Reduction.
Nerf to 40% Venon Recharge Reduction.
I think its fine, because the Venoms have a WAYYY too long CD in the first place, its rediculous how long they are, nobody is going to use venoms unless they have a reduced CD.