Guild Wars 2

Einlanzer.1627:

style.6173:

Actually death blossom should be removed from D/D all together. It does not blend in well with the rest of the skills. I’d like to see a new main hand weapon that is focused on melee condi attacks. Death blossom would be a great #2 skill there.

I disagree. Like others have pointed out, Death Blossom gives D/D something that it would otherwise completely lack, which is the ability to deal with adds or multiple mobs at one time. Personally, I think it’s important that any weapon set have viability in more than one specific situation.

The problem is that D/D is a DPS spec. Death blossom is mostly for condi.

I do disagree about the multiple target. It’s perfectly fine to have a weapon set that is around max DPS to one target. The alternate weapon can them be used for the AOE attacks.

Death Blossom is fine. It’s supposed to be condi AoE + evade to give the set some versatility. Virtually every set in the game has something like that, and it’s a good thing they do. You don’t need 4-5 skills all serving the exact same purpose.

how about giving it a stun breaker? Don’t change anything about it’s damage, range, init cost. But give it an additional utility?

Just a thought.

Madjack.4598:

how about giving it a stun breaker? Don’t change anything about it’s damage, range, init cost. But give it an additional utility?

Just a thought.

Last time they let our weapon skill break stun, it was beaten to a pulp over and over even after the stun break was removed.

NinjaEd.3946:

Dancing dagger has nearly no use. Sigils on it can proc off the main hand attacks, the damage is weak, the cripple even on a bounce is hardly noticeable (spamming it is horrible…), and it’s really slow moving making it miss or be obstructed more than it should.

I find Dancing Dagger to even be bad at what should be it’s main usage : slowing down someone you are chasing. The problem is that with the slooow projectile, if you throw it at someone that is fleeing from you and max range (max range which isn’t very much in the first place), then you are 100% certain the projectile will never connect for two reasons :
- any little movement to the sides will make it miss
- the target us fleeing away and even if he was in range when you threw the dagger, by the time it reaches your target it’d have passed the maximum tolerance range allowed in the first place

Karolis.4261:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Arikyali.5804:

Most thieves can agree that Death Blossom is one of the weakest skills for a thief. The damage output isn’t worth the initiative.

I strongly disagree!

The damage output against a single target is indeed weak, however this skill has the ability to deal AoE damage and should be used as such.

There is no situation where you cant just bring S/P and Showrtbow for aoe purposes and do much more damage then death blossom.

But when you do, you lose the high damage capability of backstab.

D/D is a well rounded, jack-of-all-trade type of weapon set. It has little of everything but great at nothing.

If it does better damage than S/P and SB, then why even bother with those weapon set?
If it can strip buffs, then why even bother with S/D?

You get the idea…right?

- get rid of the bleeds
- buff the direct damage enough to be a viable AOE, but weaker single target than BS
- profit

Blacksarevok.8104:

- get rid of the bleeds
- buff the direct damage enough to be a viable AOE, but weaker single target than BS
- profit

Weaker D/D single target damage? where do you come from with such ideas.

Karolis.4261:

Blacksarevok.8104:

- get rid of the bleeds
- buff the direct damage enough to be a viable AOE, but weaker single target than BS
- profit

Weaker D/D single target damage? where do you come from with such ideas.

He’s saying to buff the death blossom’s AoE damage, but ensure that death blossom still does less single target damage than BS, where BS means backstab (although I believe this would extend to the entire backstab combo rather than just backstab itself).

Basically he’s describing a situation where death blossom would provide an overall higher DPS against a group, whereas the typical backstab combos would provide better damage against a single target. That way, you can’t just spam death blossom on a single target to get good DPS, but it would be good against a group… kind of like the engineer’s flamethrower.

I’m not sure how the numbers currently work out with the current death blossom, but it’s possible that might already be the case anyways.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Karolis.4261:

Blacksarevok.8104:

- get rid of the bleeds
- buff the direct damage enough to be a viable AOE, but weaker single target than BS
- profit

Weaker D/D single target damage? where do you come from with such ideas.

He’s saying to buff the death blossom’s AoE damage, but ensure that death blossom still does less single target damage than BS, where BS means backstab (although I believe this would extend to the entire backstab combo rather than just backstab itself).

Basically he’s describing a situation where death blossom would provide an overall higher DPS against a group, whereas the typical backstab combos would provide better damage against a single target. That way, you can’t just spam death blossom on a single target to get good DPS, but it would be good against a group… kind of like the engineer’s flamethrower.

I’m not sure how the numbers currently work out with the current death blossom, but it’s possible that might already be the case anyways.

Its not. Deathblossom does next to nothing compared to BS burst. You’re better off blowing up targets 1 by 1 than spamming DB.

There is more to the game than just pvp, there are actually players who enjoy simple pve, and some that even enjoy stacking 25 bleed on a pve crowd with a quick blossom spam and stealth for initiative, then goin stealth and watching them drop like flies… nerfing all the thiefs skills for pvp spikes would not impress the pve types
Granted for pve 25 stacks of bleed is usually overkill, and most large crowds are dead by 15, but its still fun to try… and the numbers fly like crazy, even not running full conditions..

All it needs is an animation rework for the evade. It’s a bit finnicky.

Any damage bolsters would just make people cry more for stab nerfs/generic thief nerfs to the point where they would definitely happen. If anything, buff the condi side of it by adding another bleed or two such that the skill becomes more viable in PvP for condi builds and isn’t as spammy in PvE for the same end result.

I’m a carrion/full condi thief and the Death Blossom is my primary source of damage. Fun in PvE, sometimes even does its work in WvW, with good enough timing. I really wouldn’t like my primary attack to become another power/crit spam.

Unknownhero.6745:

There is more to the game than just pvp, there are actually players who enjoy simple pve, and some that even enjoy stacking 25 bleed on a pve crowd with a quick blossom spam and stealth for initiative, then goin stealth and watching them drop like flies… nerfing all the thiefs skills for pvp spikes would not impress the pve types
Granted for pve 25 stacks of bleed is usually overkill, and most large crowds are dead by 15, but its still fun to try… and the numbers fly like crazy, even not running full conditions..

so you did put 25 stacks of bleed on a normal mob and it’s still alive, while on the other hand you would kill it faster with auto attack….just great. :|

Tao: on the other hand, condi works much better against elites and champs. And the Carrion equipment provides the necessary survivability.

Besides, you can put 25 stacks on 5 mobs at once. And they melt fast enough to be content with the build, I assure you. :P

Tao.5096:

Unknownhero.6745:

There is more to the game than just pvp, there are actually players who enjoy simple pve, and some that even enjoy stacking 25 bleed on a pve crowd with a quick blossom spam and stealth for initiative, then goin stealth and watching them drop like flies… nerfing all the thiefs skills for pvp spikes would not impress the pve types
Granted for pve 25 stacks of bleed is usually overkill, and most large crowds are dead by 15, but its still fun to try… and the numbers fly like crazy, even not running full conditions..

so you did put 25 stacks of bleed on a normal mob and it’s still alive, while on the other hand you would kill it faster with auto attack….just great. :|

Its an aoe, the 25 stacks was simply a demonstration how fast you can apply 25. On a normal mob that’s not very easy :P So that’s 25 stacks on 5 mobs, in seconds, how fast you can you spike 5 mobs? In a huge crowd, I bet I can drop 20 mobs a heck of a lot faster than you can spike them.

Unknownhero.6745:

Its an aoe, the 25 stacks was simply a demonstration how fast you can apply 25. On a normal mob that’s not very easy :P So that’s 25 stacks on 5 mobs, in seconds, how fast you can you spike 5 mobs? In a huge crowd, I bet I can drop 20 mobs a heck of a lot faster than you can spike them.

In a non-realistic theory, sure.

If you pull 20 normal mobs at the same time, you’d be dead, if not, you’ll spend a lot of time stealthing, healing, dodging or running around in circles. You may apply bleed on 20 of them, but you’ll still have to kill them one at a time.

Killing them one at a time is much faster, less risky, and more efficient.

Death Blossom was never a great skill, even in GW1.

I’d rather have skills like Horn of the Ox (knockdown), Nine Tail Strike (unblockable), or Shattering Assault (debuff+unblockable).

Asmodeus.5782:

Tao: on the other hand, condi works much better against elites and champs. And the Carrion equipment provides the necessary survivability.

Besides, you can put 25 stacks on 5 mobs at once. And they melt fast enough to be content with the build, I assure you. :P

You can also pistol whip same mobs and they will fall much faster.

Unknownhero.6745:

There is more to the game than just pvp, there are actually players who enjoy simple pve, and some that even enjoy stacking 25 bleed on a pve crowd with a quick blossom spam and stealth for initiative, then goin stealth and watching them drop like flies… nerfing all the thiefs skills for pvp spikes would not impress the pve types
Granted for pve 25 stacks of bleed is usually overkill, and most large crowds are dead by 15, but its still fun to try… and the numbers fly like crazy, even not running full conditions..

How is an evasion and/or buff in damage a nerf to db in any way? Or are you referring to the few people who wish it WAS another spike skill like HS?

Anyway open pve you can literally run w/e you want and its good. Heck pull out powerful banners and beat things to death when it comes crashing down every 90 seconds….

Dungeon pve, fotm mainly, db is bad if we are honestly going to pull pve as a judge of balance. The evade is clunky, and often you still get hit HARD even when you were sure that you were evading. Spam it? Same deal, the aftercast and the duration of the skill mask the evade. As a group and for its effectiveness, you’re 100% better off using s/p to aoe blind at the LoS spot and cleave for 9-15k or w/e numbers you pull off. You’re helping defensively and killing quicker with less risk. Pw hands down beats DB to any pve cleave battle, even a full dire or carrion using DB.

Wvw, neither really works tbh. It’s 10X worse in pvp. DB has a nice spot for a weapon set that lacks evades and AoE but it does neither job efficiently.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Karolis.4261:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Arikyali.5804:

Most thieves can agree that Death Blossom is one of the weakest skills for a thief. The damage output isn’t worth the initiative.

I strongly disagree!

The damage output against a single target is indeed weak, however this skill has the ability to deal AoE damage and should be used as such.

There is no situation where you cant just bring S/P and Showrtbow for aoe purposes and do much more damage then death blossom.

But when you do, you lose the high damage capability of backstab.

D/D is a well rounded, jack-of-all-trade type of weapon set. It has little of everything but great at nothing.

If it does better damage than S/P and SB, then why even bother with those weapon set?
If it can strip buffs, then why even bother with S/D?

You get the idea…right?

I disagree. My opinion on the weaponsets.

D/D – Should be the pure dps melee, single target build
D/P – Less damage, more blinds
P/P – Range DPS build. Should be less than D/D
P/D – Range condi build
SB – Range Aoe
S/P – Control + blinds
S/D – evades + boonsteal

The only thing missing is a melee condi. I do believe thief should have a new weapon added to fill that role.

I would be set if DB scaled better with with and inflicted longer bleeds. Otherwise I can make due with what I have now.