Guild Wars 2

Or give us a way to counter it(looking at you thieves)

• Stealth traps
• “Sic’ Em!”
• AoE damage
• Interrupt stealth cast (all skills but blinding powder that give stealth have a cast time.)

After they give us a way to counter block and blind spam, condition and aoe spam, high CC spam, etc. sure. Til then I’ll continue playing my warrior and engineer, and occasionally mesmer who has way better team support, higher damage and survival at the cost of some mobility.

1. Stealth traps cost badges and karma
2. Not everyone is a ranger
3. AoE damage is basically a shot in the dark.
4. Good luck with that. Stealth is just too easily accessible.

How about this? Completely invisible when standing still, and translucent while moving. Targeting a moving thief in stealth would still be impossible. Also, thieves get a new trait which would give them a few extra seconds of stealth while evading attacks in stealth.

Or this? Completely invisible if 600 units away from target. Translucent if within 300 units, also thief gains stability while translucent and can’t be affected by movement impeding conditions.

Or? Target yells, “I thought i heard something” when thief is within 300 units

oh, the counter to blind spam is attacking. attacking and missing removes blind no matter the duration. just need a weapon with rapid attacks
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blind

Oh, guess what? We get twelve of these threads every week, buddy. L2P, because people like you are ruining this class. We’re already at the bottom of the balance rungs with eles (who are getting buffed majorly on March 18, while we get nerfed more due to QQ like this), and this doesn’t help the case of balance. I bet you play a warrior, or even worse, a ranger. See signature for details. Come back when you reroll and start beating thieves.

They cant rework stealth without a serious rework of thieves since so many of their traits/attacks/utilities revolve around it.

The QQ is strong here. It’s obviously a L2P issue, no need to make a post.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Oh, guess what? We get twelve of these threads every week, buddy. L2P, because people like you are ruining this class. We’re already at the bottom of the balance rungs with eles (who are getting buffed majorly on March 18, while we get nerfed more due to QQ like this), and this doesn’t help the case of balance. I bet you play a warrior, or even worse, a ranger. See signature for details. Come back when you reroll and start beating thieves.

LOVE YOUR SIGNATURE!

Let’s make it so that while stealthed you aren’t invisible, take 1000% damage, can’t attack, and are immobile. And if you stealth within the last hour you can’t activate heals.

Let me guess TC, you fought a D/P thief?

Getting frustrated about thieves is a bit masochistic. After all, they’re designed specifically to be elusive, mobile, and irritating. Why allow yourself to be so stressed out?

Adapt to your environment rather than demand your environment to adapt to you.

how about drop stealth… and im ok with it. but i want this in return bc we basically bc a warrior.

i want higher HP…atleast the middle class.

i want mug un-nerfed and CND and HS too.

i wont ask for higher armor but i want higher toughness

i want stability , protection, invulnerability, aegis, blocks or atleast 4 of them.

i want more mobility

i want burning

add torment removal on HiS

and lastly i would like more condi removal atleast comparable to warrior.

IF YOU ARE NOT OK WITH THIS………then you really have no right to talk about stealth in any fashion.

IF YOU AGREE WITH THIS….. i say we propose it !

Krisztian.8405:

1. Stealth traps cost badges and karma
2. Not everyone is a ranger
3. AoE damage is basically a shot in the dark.
4. Good luck with that. Stealth is just too easily accessible.

How about this? Completely invisible when standing still, and translucent while moving. Targeting a moving thief in stealth would still be impossible. Also, thieves get a new trait which would give them a few extra seconds of stealth while evading attacks in stealth.

Or this? Completely invisible if 600 units away from target. Translucent if within 300 units, also thief gains stability while translucent and can’t be affected by movement impeding conditions.

Or? Target yells, “I thought i heard something” when thief is within 300 units

1. Not enough badges or karma to justify this as a counter response.
2. Not everyone is a thief either.
3. AoE damage being thrown point blank against a backstab thief = he won’t be hitting you for free.
4. Stealth is only easily accessible on the d/p weaponset, which even most thieves will agree with that needing some tuning down still. Honestly though, if you have an issue with easily accessible stealth, do you just give up as soon as you see a mesmer?

Now on to your ideas for change…

Your proposal that a thief could be completely invisible while still, but translucent while moving just doesn’t fit into the targeting system in this game. For example, this sort of stealth mechanic would raise the question of whether or not tab-targeting or auto targeting is allowed to pick up the thief, who you can technically see, but is actually still in stealth. If you are allowed to tab-target that thief, then congrats, you neutered stealth. If not, then the same counters that exist now will still be the best ones to use. Also, if I have to stand still to become completely invisible, my stealth skills better last twice as long as they do now. This sort of system would need to give thieves at least 5 to 6 seconds of stealth off of CnD just to make the thief not feel completely gutted.

Your other proposal, being a thief is completely stealth if 600 units away, but translucent within 300 units, is pretty silly as well. Considering the range on steal is 900 units, that means a thief would be able to truly sneak up on anyone without any indication (this complain already exists, and that’s with thieves not being in stealth innately). This would also require nerfs to stealth attacks, such as backstab, which could completely ruin some builds.

In order for any of these proposed changes to occur, the thief would need a complete remake, and the only thing that would allow the thief to be viable after changes like this would be easier access to certain boons (stability, protection, aegis, regen, vigor) and a higher health pool.

d/p doesnt need tuning DOWN…i think they should INCREASE the aoe circle from BPS by 60 radius….POSSIBLY turn it down to 3 secs and 5 init isntead. that way the thief can actually use the BP rather than get beat tohell inside it. right now its almost useless against good players.

Travlane.5948:

…
right now its almost useless against good players.

Keywords there… Because the vast majority are… well… not good. Hence why it’s “OP”.

The only reason I suggest d/p gets tuned down slightly is because of the near permastealth builds that are directly created because of the ease of which you can heartseeker through BPS. I personally don’t have a problem with it, but it’s hard to justify any decent changes (read buffs) to thieves if stealthing options like the one d/p offers exists in its current state. I don’t think it’s “OP” either, but you can’t deny that most of the complaints about thieves somehow end up going to the “BPS is broken” argument. And let’s be honest, d/p really is a low risk weapon set.

godz raiden.2631:

The only reason I suggest d/p gets tuned down slightly is because of the near permastealth builds that are directly created because of the ease of which you can heartseeker through BPS. I personally don’t have a problem with it, but it’s hard to justify any decent changes (read buffs) to thieves if stealthing options like the one d/p offers exists in its current state. I don’t think it’s “OP” either, but you can’t deny that most of the complaints about thieves somehow end up going to the “BPS is broken” argument. And let’s be honest, d/p really is a low risk weapon set.

Most complaints end up going in a circular fashion, where the thief is OP because of stealth and that’s op because thief can stealth…. They tend to emphasize stealth a lot…
That or, they get a little bit more creative and say something like, thief has perma-evades.
If they end up with “BPS is broken”, then they’re really creative and are smarter than your average bear…

Viking Jorun.5413:

• Stealth traps
• “Sic’ Em!”
• AoE damage
• Interrupt stealth cast (all skills but blinding powder that give stealth have a cast time.)

May I also add:

• A brain

Travlane.5948:

d/p doesnt need tuning DOWN…i think they should INCREASE the aoe circle from BPS by 60 radius….POSSIBLY turn it down to 3 secs and 5 init isntead. that way the thief can actually use the BP rather than get beat tohell inside it. right now its almost useless against good players.

I both agree and disagree with your statement at the same time.

I agree that the AOE circle size should be increased, it is too small right now.

However I do feel that the black powder + heart seeker combo is way too easy to use, and too difficult for the opponent to prevent, and thus it draws a lot of hate towards our profession.

I bet if they could find a way to slightly change this without completely destroying d/p we’d see far fewer complaints against thieves.

Stealth has counters, just none of them are labeled “reveal” like sic em.

Stealth is something people have to learn to counter, but as far as its behavior and availability it needs reworking among many other things. Thief has many strong traits in stealth, there is no need to flat out give counters to those unless we had powerful defense outside of it.

I’d prefer stealth to be closer to 5 seconds base (most skills are 3 seconds) while bumping reveal to 5 seconds. Along that, adjusting the traits to be more in lines okittennowledging, we are revealed for 5 seconds. Atm I can’t see thief taking any stealth nerf w/o some total restructure in stealth traits.

Travlane.5948:

d/p doesnt need tuning DOWN…i think they should INCREASE the aoe circle from BPS by 60 radius….POSSIBLY turn it down to 3 secs and 5 init isntead. that way the thief can actually use the BP rather than get beat tohell inside it. right now its almost useless against good players.

Actually, I’m a thief, and I really don’t think it needs a radius increase. Then no one would be able to melee you….60 radius is a big change from like, what, 120? The diameter of it is 240, so you’re adding another 120 on to it. Also, you can easily position yourself so that people can’t melee you. Just go to the edge of the powder.

Axelwarrior.9084:

Viking Jorun.5413:

• Stealth traps
• “Sic’ Em!”
• AoE damage
• Interrupt stealth cast (all skills but blinding powder that give stealth have a cast time.)

May I also add:

• A brain

Too much to ask. Conditioned for mindless zerging.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Oh, guess what? We get twelve of these threads every week, buddy. L2P, because people like you are ruining this class. We’re already at the bottom of the balance rungs with eles (who are getting buffed majorly on March 18, while we get nerfed more due to QQ like this), and this doesn’t help the case of balance. I bet you play a warrior, or even worse, a ranger. See signature for details. Come back when you reroll and start beating thieves.

Lol @ even worse a Ranger. Thieves are able to stealth/blindspam all day long. While in stealth you regen 300 something HP a second? With a healing signet on Ranger, we regen a whopping 62.
In full zerk, with 0 defense and 2k more health, I still win in fights without spamming either of those things and not having any regen. If I can win in fights without being invisible for 80% of it, so can you ( ; Maybe thieves are the ones that need to L2P.

Also, I don’t suggest a nerf to thieves. But knowing we’re hitting them while they’re stealthed would be super instead of swinging blindly and having absolutely no idea whether we’re hitting them or not.
And to clarify, that’s not a nerf. Just because I know I’m hitting you doesn’t mean I’ll be able to track you, it just means I’ll know you’re close by. As is, when you stealth you may as well be invincible. And let me stress may as well. I’m fully aware you’re still vulnerable while stealthed, but unless you’re standing directly infront of your opponent, it’s really not hard for you to literally side-step an attack and your enemy being none the wiser.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Oh, guess what? We get twelve of these threads every week, buddy. L2P, because people like you are ruining this class. We’re already at the bottom of the balance rungs with eles (who are getting buffed majorly on March 18, while we get nerfed more due to QQ like this), and this doesn’t help the case of balance. I bet you play a warrior, or even worse, a ranger. See signature for details. Come back when you reroll and start beating thieves.

Lol @ even worse a Ranger. Thieves are able to stealth/blindspam all day long. As a Ranger in full zerk, with 0 defense and 2k more health, I still win in fights without spamming either of those things. If I can win in fights without being invisible for 80% of it, so can you ( ; Maybe thieves are the ones that need to L2P.

Your argument is irrelevant. I run a stealthless build and own rangers like you all day. You’re probably one of many with a bear for a pet too.

Viking Jorun.5413:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Oh, guess what? We get twelve of these threads every week, buddy. L2P, because people like you are ruining this class. We’re already at the bottom of the balance rungs with eles (who are getting buffed majorly on March 18, while we get nerfed more due to QQ like this), and this doesn’t help the case of balance. I bet you play a warrior, or even worse, a ranger. See signature for details. Come back when you reroll and start beating thieves.

Lol @ even worse a Ranger. Thieves are able to stealth/blindspam all day long. As a Ranger in full zerk, with 0 defense and 2k more health, I still win in fights without spamming either of those things. If I can win in fights without being invisible for 80% of it, so can you ( ; Maybe thieves are the ones that need to L2P.

Your argument is irrelevant. I run a stealthless build and own rangers like you all day. You’re probably one of many with a bear for a pet too.

You are bragging because you own rangers all day. Do you not see the 200+ post (and growing) CDI topic? I mean you must feel super special right about now.

Gotejjeken.1267:

Viking Jorun.5413:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Oh, guess what? We get twelve of these threads every week, buddy. L2P, because people like you are ruining this class. We’re already at the bottom of the balance rungs with eles (who are getting buffed majorly on March 18, while we get nerfed more due to QQ like this), and this doesn’t help the case of balance. I bet you play a warrior, or even worse, a ranger. See signature for details. Come back when you reroll and start beating thieves.

Lol @ even worse a Ranger. Thieves are able to stealth/blindspam all day long. As a Ranger in full zerk, with 0 defense and 2k more health, I still win in fights without spamming either of those things. If I can win in fights without being invisible for 80% of it, so can you ( ; Maybe thieves are the ones that need to L2P.

Your argument is irrelevant. I run a stealthless build and own rangers like you all day. You’re probably one of many with a bear for a pet too.

You are bragging because you own rangers all day. Do you not see the 200+ post (and growing) CDI topic? I mean you must feel super special right about now.

Who said I was bragging? I said that he was in no position to call out thieves and tell them to L2P without stealth, which I have done. His argument also vaguely infers that stealth is “cheap” and playing without it will make you an easy kill for him. Please don’t try to twist my words, o’ special one.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Also, I don’t suggest a nerf to thieves. But knowing we’re hitting them while they’re stealthed would be super instead of swinging blindly and having absolutely no idea whether we’re hitting them or not.
And to clarify, that’s not a nerf. Just because I know I’m hitting you doesn’t mean I’ll be able to track you, it just means I’ll know you’re close by. As is, when you stealth you may as well be invincible. And let me stress may as well. I’m fully aware you’re still vulnerable while stealthed, but unless you’re standing directly infront of your opponent, it’s really not hard for you to literally side-step an attack and your enemy being none the wiser.

You can tell if you’re hitting a thief when the thief is in stealth, your auto attack chain will progress. Also, it seems that ranger rapid fire tracks thieves pretty well generally as long as you start the channel before the thief goes into stealth. Honestly I find rangers to be one of the best classes to keep tabs on my movements when I do enter stealth. That being said, most rangers are by no means able to overcome the damage a thief can put out as quickly as the thief does. At best rangers can delay their death, but finding the thief when he’s stealthed really shouldn’t be a complaint for any aware player, even a ranger.

Also, hint-hint, if a thief is in stealth, odds are he’s trying to hit your back, keep that in mind at all times.

godz raiden.2631:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Also, I don’t suggest a nerf to thieves. But knowing we’re hitting them while they’re stealthed would be super instead of swinging blindly and having absolutely no idea whether we’re hitting them or not.
And to clarify, that’s not a nerf. Just because I know I’m hitting you doesn’t mean I’ll be able to track you, it just means I’ll know you’re close by. As is, when you stealth you may as well be invincible. And let me stress may as well. I’m fully aware you’re still vulnerable while stealthed, but unless you’re standing directly infront of your opponent, it’s really not hard for you to literally side-step an attack and your enemy being none the wiser.

You can tell if you’re hitting a thief when the thief is in stealth, your auto attack chain will progress. Also, it seems that ranger rapid fire tracks thieves pretty well generally as long as you start the channel before the thief goes into stealth. Honestly I find rangers to be one of the best classes to keep tabs on my movements when I do enter stealth. That being said, most rangers are by no means able to overcome the damage a thief can put out as quickly as the thief does. At best rangers can delay their death, but finding the thief when he’s stealthed really shouldn’t be a complaint for any aware player, even a ranger.

Also, hint-hint, if a thief is in stealth, odds are he’s trying to hit your back, keep that in mind at all times.

Also been playing my warrior recently, and both Kill Shot and Rapid Fire are long channels, which make taking down troll thieves VERY easy in group play. You can only dodge that 20k Killshot so long as you see it coming. In my opinion, every organized group in WvW should be running a burst rifle warrior as a “Thief Buster”. Running greatsword in the secondary set allows you to heavily punish stealth stomping and save your allies from otherwise dying. Any smart thief won’t engage after a while of seeing your group on the map.

Viking Jorun.5413:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Oh, guess what? We get twelve of these threads every week, buddy. L2P, because people like you are ruining this class. We’re already at the bottom of the balance rungs with eles (who are getting buffed majorly on March 18, while we get nerfed more due to QQ like this), and this doesn’t help the case of balance. I bet you play a warrior, or even worse, a ranger. See signature for details. Come back when you reroll and start beating thieves.

Lol @ even worse a Ranger. Thieves are able to stealth/blindspam all day long. As a Ranger in full zerk, with 0 defense and 2k more health, I still win in fights without spamming either of those things. If I can win in fights without being invisible for 80% of it, so can you ( ; Maybe thieves are the ones that need to L2P.

Your argument is irrelevant. I run a stealthless build and own rangers like you all day. You’re probably one of many with a bear for a pet too.

Bearbow Rangers are idiots, sorry… The only benefit to a bear is their condition removal and that’s only a Brown Bear, besides that they’re garbage. Then again, most pets are…

Oh and good for you, you run stealthless. I bet that means either you Dagger Storm everyone to death or you’re a tanky thief, which doesn’t make “owning a Ranger like me” that hard because I would have less defense than you. Hence why I said “as a Ranger in full zerk.”

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Viking Jorun.5413:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Oh, guess what? We get twelve of these threads every week, buddy. L2P, because people like you are ruining this class. We’re already at the bottom of the balance rungs with eles (who are getting buffed majorly on March 18, while we get nerfed more due to QQ like this), and this doesn’t help the case of balance. I bet you play a warrior, or even worse, a ranger. See signature for details. Come back when you reroll and start beating thieves.

Lol @ even worse a Ranger. Thieves are able to stealth/blindspam all day long. As a Ranger in full zerk, with 0 defense and 2k more health, I still win in fights without spamming either of those things. If I can win in fights without being invisible for 80% of it, so can you ( ; Maybe thieves are the ones that need to L2P.

Your argument is irrelevant. I run a stealthless build and own rangers like you all day. You’re probably one of many with a bear for a pet too.

Bearbow Rangers are idiots, sorry… The only benefit to a bear is their condition removal and that’s only a Brown Bear, besides that they’re garbage. Then again, most pets are…

Oh and good for you, you run stealthless. I bet that means either you Dagger Storm everyone to death or you’re a tanky thief, which doesn’t make “owning a Ranger like me” that hard because I would have less defense than you. Hence why I said “as a Ranger in full zerk.”

Wrong on both fronts. I hit pretty hard and run BV or Thieves Guild depending on who I’m fighting.

alchemyst.2165:

Travlane.5948:

d/p doesnt need tuning DOWN…i think they should INCREASE the aoe circle from BPS by 60 radius….POSSIBLY turn it down to 3 secs and 5 init isntead. that way the thief can actually use the BP rather than get beat tohell inside it. right now its almost useless against good players.

Actually, I’m a thief, and I really don’t think it needs a radius increase. Then no one would be able to melee you….60 radius is a big change from like, what, 120? The diameter of it is 240, so you’re adding another 120 on to it. Also, you can easily position yourself so that people can’t melee you. Just go to the edge of the powder.

point is …its either fine. if it needs a change…it should be buffed bc thief defense is so bad right now.

I totally agree with changing the way stealth works for this class in WvW. It is way too easy to down people due to the abilities that thief’s get.

1. Practically Parma Stealth
2. Mass Damage near top of classes
3. Top end mobility in the game.

Stealth is by far the strongest ability in the game to augment damage. The AOE argument is lame, if a thief does not know or for that matter any class does not know how to stay out of an AOE in this game then they deserve to die.
I have never encountered a game where you have to build CC AOE in order to be able to defend against a thief or you die. Unless you are a Guardian or Warrior that can put up blocks has outstanding HP or defense then you’re dead in less than 5 sec. It is ridiculous that they get all 3 abilities to the degree without taking penalties in the 3 I listed. The thief class has been the only class since day one of this game that has been over the top with its abilities. I would rather them have 50% more DPS if you could see them more often. Nothing is more frustrating than never having your spells queue up before a thief jumps in and out of stealth. Counting the 2-3 seconds before HS hits is ok until you can no longer dodge the attack. I play a thief and it gets boring after a while because all you do in the same combo over and over and over again. Once you get it down there is not much dynamics to playing thief. They are an inch wide and an inch deep as classes in this game goes. They’re the only class in the game that is out of control right now. Warriors, Mesmer’s, and Elementalist can be difficult to fight but are nowhere near a thief’s ability to one-on-one right now. I really don’t put any faith in GW2 development at this time to address this issue. If they have not done it by now they will never do it. Everyone who has played the class and the game since day one knows that the thief class gets the most grief because of the major advantage of the big three we get. I would just like an update from the developers that just tells people that this is the way it is and will never change. At the very least it would cut down on all the complaining that goes on concerning a class that has a very strong competitive advantage in WvW.

I have always felt that there have been some good suggestions on the forms on how to deal with this but they have yet to implement them to the extent that they need.

Will see what happens I guess.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Viking Jorun.5413:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Oh, guess what? We get twelve of these threads every week, buddy. L2P, because people like you are ruining this class. We’re already at the bottom of the balance rungs with eles (who are getting buffed majorly on March 18, while we get nerfed more due to QQ like this), and this doesn’t help the case of balance. I bet you play a warrior, or even worse, a ranger. See signature for details. Come back when you reroll and start beating thieves.

Lol @ even worse a Ranger. Thieves are able to stealth/blindspam all day long. As a Ranger in full zerk, with 0 defense and 2k more health, I still win in fights without spamming either of those things. If I can win in fights without being invisible for 80% of it, so can you ( ; Maybe thieves are the ones that need to L2P.

Your argument is irrelevant. I run a stealthless build and own rangers like you all day. You’re probably one of many with a bear for a pet too.

Bearbow Rangers are idiots, sorry… The only benefit to a bear is their condition removal and that’s only a Brown Bear, besides that they’re garbage. Then again, most pets are…

Oh and good for you, you run stealthless. I bet that means either you Dagger Storm everyone to death or you’re a tanky thief, which doesn’t make “owning a Ranger like me” that hard because I would have less defense than you. Hence why I said “as a Ranger in full zerk.”

SO he kills you because he runs tankier build then your while you run full berserker with all your damage and he invests heavy in toughness and vitality losing tons of damage. That makes all the sense in the world…oh w8 it doesn’t. And dagger storm someone to death? Well stop shooting while someone is reflecting all your projectiles maybe ? Dagger storm on it self does pitiful damage. Do you also consider the fact that rangers compared to thieves has 40 % more base HP? Nothing what you said till now sticks, sry.

RoenHawk.5891:

I totally agree with changing the way stealth works for this class in WvW. It is way too easy to down people due to the abilities that thief’s get.

1. Practically Parma Stealth
2. Mass Damage near top of classes
3. Top end mobility in the game.

Stealth is by far the strongest ability in the game to augment damage. The AOE argument is lame, if a thief does not know or for that matter any class does not know how to stay out of an AOE in this game then they deserve to die.
I have never encountered a game where you have to build CC AOE in order to be able to defend against a thief or you die. Unless you are a Guardian or Warrior that can put up blocks has outstanding HP or defense then you’re dead in less than 5 sec. It is ridiculous that they get all 3 abilities to the degree without taking penalties in the 3 I listed. The thief class has been the only class since day one of this game that has been over the top with its abilities. I would rather them have 50% more DPS if you could see them more often. Nothing is more frustrating than never having your spells queue up before a thief jumps in and out of stealth. Counting the 2-3 seconds before HS hits is ok until you can no longer dodge the attack. I play a thief and it gets boring after a while because all you do in the same combo over and over and over again. Once you get it down there is not much dynamics to playing thief. They are an inch wide and an inch deep as classes in this game goes. They’re the only class in the game that is out of control right now. Warriors, Mesmer’s, and Elementalist can be difficult to fight but are nowhere near a thief’s ability to one-on-one right now. I really don’t put any faith in GW2 development at this time to address this issue. If they have not done it by now they will never do it. Everyone who has played the class and the game since day one knows that the thief class gets the most grief because of the major advantage of the big three we get. I would just like an update from the developers that just tells people that this is the way it is and will never change. At the very least it would cut down on all the complaining that goes on concerning a class that has a very strong competitive advantage in WvW.

I have always felt that there have been some good suggestions on the forms on how to deal with this but they have yet to implement them to the extent that they need.

Will see what happens I guess.

Mesmer’s can kill you in stealth without being revealed, while a thief show’s their face along with a reveal debuff. Also Mesmer’s can pull off incredible AoE damage and unmatched survivability if played right. Just sayin, maybe we should stop pointing fingers at thief when it comes to stealth, there are bigger fish to fry.

The only thing that is “broken” about stealth is how much health regen Thieves get inside it. Thats pretty much it. Take out the Health Regen trait for something else, and stealth is completely balanced.

Shadow’s Rejuvenation: Remove and swap with something different (something like reviving players at twice the speed while in stealth)

Shadow Protector: Only apply to allies instead of allies and self. Almost every Thief skill that grants stealth offers some form of protection/healing ALREADY. (Blind is the best defensive skill in the game).

This is all that really should be changed (but not needed). Stealth is REALLY good, but not OP.

Thief – lowest hp pool, most squishiest class Universe.
It’s the hardest or almost hardest class to level – yes, even D/P doesn’t do magic when you’re surrounded by 5 mobs + veteran.

Now some warrior, mesmer, guardian or necro comes and says:
“Give us a way to counter Thief Stealth. It’s too OP”

Here is a way to counter stealth – l2p your class.

McFribble.2349:

The only thing that is “broken” about stealth is how much health regen Thieves get inside it. Thats pretty much it. Take out the Health Regen trait for something else, and stealth is completely balanced.

Shadow’s Rejuvenation: Remove and swap with something different (something like reviving players at twice the speed while in stealth)

Shadow Protector: Only apply to allies instead of allies and self. Almost every Thief skill that grants stealth offers some form of protection/healing ALREADY. (Blind is the best defensive skill in the game).

This is all that really should be changed (but not needed). Stealth is REALLY good, but not OP.

No, access to stealth through D/P is broken right now. Offhand Dagger is easy to deal with because they have to get close. Yes there are gap closers, but every class has some form of AoE they can toss on their own position to utterly devastate any thief who dares to get that close.

But being able to stealth from 600+ range easily without needing a target and having maybe 6-10 second cooldown for this sort of thing with just 2 weapon skills? That’s overpowered. I know somebody will try and say it’s the same thing with Smokescreen, but that has a 30 second cooldown on it, and you have to waste a utility slot for it.

RyuDragnier.9476:

McFribble.2349:

The only thing that is “broken” about stealth is how much health regen Thieves get inside it. Thats pretty much it. Take out the Health Regen trait for something else, and stealth is completely balanced.

Shadow’s Rejuvenation: Remove and swap with something different (something like reviving players at twice the speed while in stealth)

Shadow Protector: Only apply to allies instead of allies and self. Almost every Thief skill that grants stealth offers some form of protection/healing ALREADY. (Blind is the best defensive skill in the game).

This is all that really should be changed (but not needed). Stealth is REALLY good, but not OP.

No, access to stealth through D/P is broken right now. Offhand Dagger is easy to deal with because they have to get close. Yes there are gap closers, but every class has some form of AoE they can toss on their own position to utterly devastate any thief who dares to get that close.

But being able to stealth from 600+ range easily without needing a target and having maybe 6-10 second cooldown for this sort of thing with just 2 weapon skills? That’s overpowered. I know somebody will try and say it’s the same thing with Smokescreen, but that has a 30 second cooldown on it, and you have to waste a utility slot for it.

This is the problem with public forums. Absolutely anyone can express their opinion, regardless of its accuracy.

If you’re having trouble with stealth access that costs 60/75% of a thief’s cooldown pool (Across BOTH weapons, mind you), there’s honestly not much I can offer to you.

Most people see “Learn to play” on the thief boards as a put-down. Certainly some people mean it as such, but it’s generally an honest assessment. Learn to play the game, and stealth won’t seem such a daunting foe.

evilapprentice.6379:

RyuDragnier.9476:

McFribble.2349:

The only thing that is “broken” about stealth is how much health regen Thieves get inside it. Thats pretty much it. Take out the Health Regen trait for something else, and stealth is completely balanced.

Shadow’s Rejuvenation: Remove and swap with something different (something like reviving players at twice the speed while in stealth)

Shadow Protector: Only apply to allies instead of allies and self. Almost every Thief skill that grants stealth offers some form of protection/healing ALREADY. (Blind is the best defensive skill in the game).

This is all that really should be changed (but not needed). Stealth is REALLY good, but not OP.

No, access to stealth through D/P is broken right now. Offhand Dagger is easy to deal with because they have to get close. Yes there are gap closers, but every class has some form of AoE they can toss on their own position to utterly devastate any thief who dares to get that close.

But being able to stealth from 600+ range easily without needing a target and having maybe 6-10 second cooldown for this sort of thing with just 2 weapon skills? That’s overpowered. I know somebody will try and say it’s the same thing with Smokescreen, but that has a 30 second cooldown on it, and you have to waste a utility slot for it.

This is the problem with public forums. Absolutely anyone can express their opinion, regardless of its accuracy.

If you’re having trouble with stealth access that costs 60/75% of a thief’s cooldown pool (Across BOTH weapons, mind you), there’s honestly not much I can offer to you.

Most people see “Learn to play” on the thief boards as a put-down. Certainly some people mean it as such, but it’s generally an honest assessment. Learn to play the game, and stealth won’t seem such a daunting foe.

BP -> HS requires 9 initiative.

If the thief has Infusion in Shadow, they gain back 2 initiative per stealth. Assuming they have Blinding Powder as a utility and no Shadow Refuge, they use the 9 initiative, gain back 2 along with around 3-4 from initiative regen, meaning 5-6 are restored within the time they stealthed to the time they backstabbed.

They dodge twice, then they use Blinding Powder (assuming 40 second cooldown). They just gained 2 more initiative and are back to max. They backstab again, dodge again, BP -> HS for 9 initiative. Backstab, 5-6 initiative back, dodge, BP -> HS again, followed by another backstab, 5-6 initiative back. If they’re running zerker, you’re probably already downed by this point, regardless of what you’re running. And that’s not including the Elites they could be using, like Thieves Guild or Basilisk Venom, or even the healing skill Hide in Shadow.

I don’t like that this combo can be done without a solid weakness to it. CnD’s weakness, again, is that you have to be in close range. Shadow Refuge requires you to stay in that AoE. Blinding Powder, the stealth on Steal trait and the Smokescreen -> Heartseeker combo have the weakness of a skill on a long cooldown. Heal in Shadow requires you using your heal, which then goes on cooldown leaving you without a healing skill available. BP -> HS spam however has no weakness whatsoever, nothing that gives a reprieve or a counter for it.