Guild Wars 2

Thief is literally the only profession in the game without a reliable ranged weapon and from what I gather, pretty much every thief player would be cool with this coming back. PvE is a lot more challenging than it used to be, and there are a lot of situations where staying in melee is discouraged or near impossible, and that hurts the thief a lot. The simple re-addition of ricochet would be incredible for ranged thieves, but a change small enough to not be game-breaking or step on the toes of a possible ranged elite spec we could see in the future. Everyone thinks P/P is fun but so few use it anymore.

What do we want? (Ricochet) When do we want it? (Whenever is convenient but preferably soon).

I wasn’t here when the ricochet trait was removed, had a long break from GW2 back then, and I am curious…

What was the cause for it’s removal? Was it unbalanced? Outright broken? I didn’t have the impression at the time that ricochet was broken when it was still around.

It was an odd trait in the way it functioned. It was most commonly seen with Unload and Sneak Attack, but it still functioned with other skills. Head Shot might daze one person, or it might interrupt 4 (and then there’s the interrupt traits created during this whole change). Using D/P meant you ran a Russian Roulette each time you teleported, while Ricochet didn’t function with P/D’s #3. Ricochet also didn’t bounce to a previously hit foe, meaning you only got the benefit by fighting 2+ targets in range. In addition, sometimes you wouldn’t want Ricochet to activate (like when pulling certain mobs from a group) or when using venoms near a targetable object (you’d just lose stacks that could otherwise be put on an actual target).

Which brings me to the next major point: Pistol was overlapping on Shortbow. During the massive trait change that removed Ricochet; traitlines, weapons, and other aspects became more specialized. In the case of Pistol, it was designated as the “single target burst” weapon, while Shortbow had a more visible role as the “aoe ranged utility” weapon. With their new and improved designations, both Pistol and Shortbow could be given changes that would matter to each of them, and also prepare them for HoT (which was in development at the time). Nigh zero pistol skills could be properly addressed while Ricochet was still around because of how it affected the skill functionality. Shortbow was kinda just doing the same things Pistols were doing to differing levels of effectiveness between them. With Pistol and Shortbow mechanically separated, they can more easily be tuned to their specific jobs and needs.

Anet gave an official reason that included the phrase, “preserving the purity of Pistol”, but it only served to get people more upset when they didn’t understand what was meant. P/P was considered a trash set when Ricochet was around, but now its pretty decent. P/D has kind of disappeared even though its effectiveness hasn’t dropped, and x/P doesn’t really need any help. Overall I’d say its been a net gain to remove Ricochet, even if it was fun.

Huh, I wasn’t even aware of that P/D #3 issue, but they could just make the teleport apply to the first target hit only. In any case, I would LOVE to see Ricochet back, and dual pistol really needs it. If nothing else, they need to make the move baseline for Unload.

Which brings me to the next major point: Pistol was overlapping on Shortbow. During the massive trait change that removed Ricochet; traitlines, weapons, and other aspects became more specialized. In the case of Pistol, it was designated as the “single target burst” weapon, while Shortbow had a more visible role as the “aoe ranged utility” weapon.

SB has never been an “aoe ranged weapon.” It is a “portal gun,” plain and simple. It can tag enemies for you, but is highly unlikely to kill anything at any reasonable pace. If they want to make SB a viable weapon, then that’d be great too, but for now, it’s not, and P/P cannot shadowstep you at will, so it has nothing to fear from the Shortbow either. And just because P/P is meant to be primarily single target, it still needs to have better AoE options, because this is a game of AoE. at least one of its attacks needs to be reliably fired into a group and mess people up. Maybe take the lame #2 ability and turn it into a fragmenting burst, around 150-300 range from the initial target.

They are removed for the next expansion. The thieves’ elite spec will be a gunslinger or rifleman with the trait reintroduced. Critical Strikes will be the next Acrobatics line.

As far as I’m aware, thives (assassins) are meant to get in, stab, stab, stab, kill and get out again…I can’t imagine them using ranged weapons to kill effectively (may be a rifle but then it would the awp 1 shot kills like from CS)

TwiceDead.1963:

What was the cause for it’s removal? Was it unbalanced? Outright broken? I didn’t have the impression at the time that ricochet was broken when it was still around.

According to the devs at the time it was difficult to balance because of the randomness of the bounce. They also made a comment about the purity of the weapon set. ANet screwed over a good number of players that believed (and still believe) P/P with Ricochet was one of the funnest builds to play in the game despite it under-performing compared to other thief weapons at the time.

IMO this is a prime example of ANet making unnecessary changes with no regard to their player base. The changes would have been understandable if they changed it due to an OP issue.

that trait was broken for a long time extra range on pistol skills made black powder up to 1300

also allow you to shadow shot 4x players at once lol was a neat mech.

but reason it got removed is i assume no one really ran the trait anet just had no room to fit it in.

I want Ricochet back, but I also want a big nerf to Unload’s damage, it’s way too much currently. But it did make Shadow Shot like spinning a slot machine. My question is: why not just change it for shadow shot and leave it the same for the others?

ErebusVindictus.6514:

I want Ricochet back, but I also want a big nerf to Unload’s damage, it’s way too much currently.

It is a 1.5s channeled skill and its DPS is inline with other channeled skills. I cannot even remember the last time someone killed me with Unload.

I am much more cautious around a Bounding Staff D/P player or glassy Druid running LB.

There was an attempt at an explanation for its removal that didn’t hold much water; not actual an good reason why it was removed.

P/P – SB Thief was a great way to play in WvW in a group(I’m not a great 1v1 player), so for people like me Ricochet was a very useful trait. I miss it a lot.

ErebusVindictus.6514:

I want Ricochet back, but I also want a big nerf to Unload’s damage, it’s way too much currently. But it did make Shadow Shot like spinning a slot machine. My question is: why not just change it for shadow shot and leave it the same for the others?

WTF I want ricochet back specifically BECAUSE of shadow shot.

ErebusVindictus.6514:

My question is: why not just change it for shadow shot and leave it the same for the others?

Or make it a 100% chance but it only applies to autoattacks?

Piercing on autoattack and maybe unload (baseline ofc) and call it a day. No issues of ricocheting and P/P thief finally gets some AoE.
Such simple fix and yet it would introduce a lot of versatility and viability for P/P.

If they are not going to give us ricochet back they should at least take another look at short bow so we have a true aoe option.

A few things that could be done:
1. Increase the projectile speed for all attacks – It’s always felt really slow especially cluster bombs and choking gas

2. Make trick shot (auto attack) bleed on the second bounce – increases effectiveness in multi enemy fights without buffing 1 vs 1 combat

3. Disabling shot should bounce at least once – the bounce doesn’t need to cripple

4. Infiltrators Arrow should leave some cluster bombs at the location you port from giving it a way to be used offensively

Imagine ricochet proccing on headshot with pulm on lol