Guild Wars 2

basically after the patch we lost 150 range, bouncing bullets, and a damage nerf. the 10% damage only applies when the enemy is crippled. The old trait was a passive 10% damage increase. Whats with the huge nerfs to pistol?

So I never write on here, but based on a little bit of practice and poking around, I kind of see what they were doing with the build (not that I like it because I LOVED ricochet, damage bonuses, and extra range). For the most part, it feels like they are just trying to get us to move around more. As a long time p/p thief, I recall NEVER weapon swapping, or at least not that much. With an increased initiative bonus, we also hardly had to steal and only use it as a last resort. For the most part, ricochet pretty much made it so we could survive in a crowd of mobs by simply standing still and unloading, giving us high damage on everything and healing ourselves out the wazoo. Frankly, I think that it made us all a little bit lazy.

If you take at look at some of the traits now, there is a much higher single target output, and even if not at good range, that’s why we have to weapon swap with the bow. This gives us low cost AoE and decent range. When it comes back to our single target, notice that they buffed the hell out of our steal. We get a nice decreased CD and it buffs not only us, but surrounding allies for a good 10 seconds with might, fury, and swiftness. If you ask me, that makes us a pretty valuable asset to the group now.

All in all, for those of you giving up because of the nerf….dont. You will only become a more skilled player and your groups will be more accepting of your contribution. P/P thief for life. (i still hope they bring back ricochet though)

Girbilcannon.8259:

So I never write on here, but based on a little bit of practice and poking around, I kind of see what they were doing with the build (not that I like it because I LOVED ricochet, damage bonuses, and extra range). For the most part, it feels like they are just trying to get us to move around more. As a long time p/p thief, I recall NEVER weapon swapping, or at least not that much. With an increased initiative bonus, we also hardly had to steal and only use it as a last resort. For the most part, ricochet pretty much made it so we could survive in a crowd of mobs by simply standing still and unloading, giving us high damage on everything and healing ourselves out the wazoo. Frankly, I think that it made us all a little bit lazy.

If you take at look at some of the traits now, there is a much higher single target output, and even if not at good range, that’s why we have to weapon swap with the bow. This gives us low cost AoE and decent range. When it comes back to our single target, notice that they buffed the hell out of our steal. We get a nice decreased CD and it buffs not only us, but surrounding allies for a good 10 seconds with might, fury, and swiftness. If you ask me, that makes us a pretty valuable asset to the group now.

All in all, for those of you giving up because of the nerf….dont. You will only become a more skilled player and your groups will be more accepting of your contribution. P/P thief for life. (i still hope they bring back ricochet though)

One of the selling points of GW2 was you get to use the build you want to use.. not be forced to use mainstream builds, which is what this change does. Maybe we want to have a nice lenient build we can use to tag mobs in pve, we shouldn’t be forced to use streamline builds. We need Ricochet back.

Brewergamer.8357:

One of the selling points of GW2 was you get to use the build you want to use.. not be forced to use mainstream builds, which is what this change does. Maybe we want to have a nice lenient build we can use to tag mobs in pve, we shouldn’t be forced to use streamline builds. We need Ricochet back.

This is how I feel on the matter. I don’t doubt that you can still use dual pistols, but now you’re kind of forced into only one way to build for it, which is a huge turn-off. My load-out is P/P + S/P and I thoroughly enjoyed using both as mob killers. I don’t want to have to substitute my dual pistols for a shortbow just to have mob-tagging capability, it just wouldn’t feel right, y’know?

It all goes back to their mantra of “play how you want” because with changes like this it’s starting to feel more like “play how we want you to play,” and that’s what is frustrating me about this whole situation.

Odyssey.2613:

This reminds me of Dragonhunter. It’s juvenile and not creative. They proceed to tell us it actually is creative because it’s a “high concept” and if only we understood high concepts.

Purity of Pistols. Another High Concept term for an answer when they don’t actually have an answer.

Reminds me of the Mass Effect 3 non-ending. “What do you mean we pulled this out of our kitten at the last minute? You just don’t get it! It’s high concept!”

i agree with the points of it being a singular build that doesn’t vary from person to person and that is why I’m saying I definitely want ricochet back because what if there are those of you that DO like to use something different than short bow as secondary. I personally like to go D/D as secondary, but when this change hit, there really is no other way around that kitten short bow =/

Really really disappointed. P/P and D/P was my main build, with the fun of bouncing around randomly between targets in melee and multi-interrupts with lucky ricochets.

It’s just changed thief from “bit of an interesting optional randomised different build compared to most other games” to “generic single target thief like every other game”. Was it the most effective build? Of course it wasn’t for the most part….was it fun as all get out though for general roaming and PVE exploration? Hell yes.

while i agree the removal of Ricochet really sucks,
the new fury traits combined with quickness makes for some pretty monstrous burst in pvp
you’re pretty much doing 20k dmg in 3 seconds

Pistol line does really feel like its been gutted. Ricochet should come back in some form as baseline or we do need some more trait options to bring back a feel that you spec’d for a pistol thief. Please consider this.

The 150 range remains as does the 10 percent bonus to pistol damge (albeit damage bonus predicated on a crippled enemy). It in the trait ankle shots.

P/P can now trait IP and Executioner at the same time. One can pound out WAY more damage on single targets then before.Yes the bounce is sorely missed and that the major issue as the ability to do AOE was a strong point depending on the circumstance.

Now I used to trait acro for my P/P build generating might/vigor and getting those needed dodges but with the new acro line I just can not see it as suitable anymore in the build. One could justify going for assassins reward in P/P and net that 10 percent bonus damage on the third minor trait that kicked in when endurance low. This no longer a desirable option. I now use 6/6/0/0/6 and it is very much a glass cannon.

Well, I sure am glad I didn’t pre-purchase Heart Of Thorns now. My favourite character type is now a single-target DPSer. In other words, useless.

You’ve taken a fun class type and stopped it being fun. I hope you’re happy, Anet.

Makes me think why even ANet bother to put guns in the game when they constantly make them worse and worse through every single class. What will be next? We can just use them for smacking monsters instead…

Girbilcannon.8259:

So I never write on here, but based on a little bit of practice and poking around, I kind of see what they were doing with the build (not that I like it because I LOVED ricochet, damage bonuses, and extra range). For the most part, it feels like they are just trying to get us to move around more. As a long time p/p thief, I recall NEVER weapon swapping, or at least not that much. With an increased initiative bonus, we also hardly had to steal and only use it as a last resort. For the most part, ricochet pretty much made it so we could survive in a crowd of mobs by simply standing still and unloading, giving us high damage on everything and healing ourselves out the wazoo. Frankly, I think that it made us all a little bit lazy.

If you take at look at some of the traits now, there is a much higher single target output, and even if not at good range, that’s why we have to weapon swap with the bow. This gives us low cost AoE and decent range. When it comes back to our single target, notice that they buffed the hell out of our steal. We get a nice decreased CD and it buffs not only us, but surrounding allies for a good 10 seconds with might, fury, and swiftness. If you ask me, that makes us a pretty valuable asset to the group now.

All in all, for those of you giving up because of the nerf….dont. You will only become a more skilled player and your groups will be more accepting of your contribution. P/P thief for life. (i still hope they bring back ricochet though)

It’s safe to say not a lot of people care about your skill in the great zergfest that is GW2. The thief P/P build was better for PVE because it helped you stay out of the thief-killing AOE and people didn’t have to stop to rez you as much.

The problem is really with PvE which is just boss zerging and little else (I actually find that fun, tbh.), but right now it seems thieves are the only class being made to close the distance and stand in the red circles.

The zerg is the zerg and your contribution to it is pretty minimal. Your goal should be to deliver as much damage to as many enemies as possible – getting more loot – while dying as little as possible.

With that in mind, I’ll probably play my mesmer and ele more often in PvE.

Ok Girbilcannon.8259, there are several flaws with your logic and assumptions:

Flaw #1 “ricochet pretty much made it so we could survive in a crowd of mobs by simply standing still and unloading, giving us high damage on everything and healing ourselves out the wazoo. Frankly, I think that it made us all a little bit lazy.”

Maybe that worked in PvE, but in PvP you would die in seconds playing like that. I never saw any p/p thief stand still in a crowd and unload unless they were about to die and panicked. I would agree that any thief who just stands still does need to l2p. So if you were playing lazy, congrats on l2p.

Flaw #2 “With an increased initiative bonus, we also hardly had to steal and only use it as a last resort.”

Again you are definitely a PvE player, and you are referencing your own particular play style. Stealing is an integral part of being a thief, esp is it quite useful in PvP and WvW. Actually PvE too… I’m wondering why in the world were you NOT using it?! And when coupled with the trait that granted stealth when stealing, it was just downright awesome. There are tons of thieves who live off of Stealing. (Get it? Live off stea- ah nevermind)

Flaw #3 “As a long time p/p thief, I recall NEVER weapon swapping, or at least not that much.”

Again, that was your playstyle. Mine? I weapon-swapped with d/d all the time for Heartseeker, DeathBlossom (I’m condi thief, this skill would do TONS of damage), and Cloak and Dagger . I saw tons of other p/p thieves who swapped regularly too.

And even if we never weapon-swap – so what? A person should be able to play how they want. That’s kinda Anet’s tagline for this game (they forgot tho).

Flaw #4 “For the most part, it feels like they are just trying to get us to move around more.”

How do you figure that “moving around more” is the same thing as “being able to hit more than one target at a time”? No matter how much you move around, there is no pistol skill that will hit more than one target now. In a group fight it is pretty much as useless kitten is, prolly even more. (Sorry but imho SB skill #5 is about the only skill worth using, and that’s just for mobility).

Flaw #5 “We get a nice decreased CD”

Same logic as above: How does a decreased CD on steal give you DPS on multiple targets? Oh, it doesn’t? Yeah so still gonna need that Ricochet back.

Flaw #6 “You will only become a more skilled player and your groups will be more accepting of your contribution”

Uh, no. If your team in PvP sees you trying to p/p now, you are now more likely to get hated for being able to contribute very little, and in effect, handicapping the team. Same goes with dungeon groups, in fact you’ll probably get flamed worse in a dungeon group.

So the complaint about Ricochet equalling the death of P/P stands. Anet really blew it on this one.

BRING RICOCHET BACK!!

I tried to continue to use my p/p s/p thief but it simply doesn’t work anymore. It’s heartbreaking, I though thief was going to be my new main until after this patch.

For those of you upset – do NOT post once and let it go. Anet actually does respond to player requests if we make our voices heard long enough.

It worked with the daily achievements – people complained about having too many and they changed it. Then enough people complained about not having enough daily achivements – and they changed it again.

KEEP THIS THREAD ON PAGE 1, EVERY DAY. We’ll get Ricochet back.

I would suggest that people wanting to see Ricochet return , not resort to hyperbole. Every single professions thread critiquing a given skills change or demise does the same claiming it will ruin the class and means the end of a specific build.

This does not help make our case.

The removal of Ricochet is not the death of P/P. It is a diminishing of the same for no real reason and has an impact on the weapons utility as a skill which it severely lacks and that utility was the AOE damage.

I have no problem switch between bow and pistols for the rest of my life, but the damage output of it during AoE is like HALF of what ricochet does. It really does hurt us, and I would really prefer to see it back.

and in response to aBabyInMoonBoots.9635:
of COURSE I’m talking pve because I don’t have a competitive attitude like you lol. I never said hardly ever as in “I NEVER use steal.” I say it as a last resort to low initiative. I know my rotations well enough to where I never run low on initiative no matter what, so don’t dis what you don’t know. Same thing with weapon swap, I know how to weapon swap, it’s just that it wasn’t necessary no matter what dungeon or fractal you are in if you know how to run it. I have played with a few thieves that could say the same.

Honestly I would continue going on with why everything else you said that was unnecessary, but I have a feeling that it wouldn’t make a difference because it’s not important, because we ALL have our own play style and that is the point of this game? Your elitist attitude in this matter has no logic since we are all just giving our input on the fact that ricochet is gone. bashing others about their feelings in the matter is pointless and you are just taking up a lot of space on this post. Thank you for your input and no hard feelings.

I agree still…bring back ricochet because it just made things simpler.

Just popped in here to check on the thread and echo again that regardless of how much single target damage I can do, I both miss the look and feel of ricochet and the needed AoE capability it provided for the P/P weapon set. I am not particularly happy with being forced to use a SB as my swap weapon if I want any multi-tag in PvE or WvW.

babazhook.6805:

I would suggest that people wanting to see Ricochet return , not resort to hyperbole. Every single professions thread critiquing a given skills change or demise does the same claiming it will ruin the class and means the end of a specific build.

This does not help make our case.

The removal of Ricochet is not the death of P/P. It is a diminishing of the same for no real reason and has an impact on the weapons utility as a skill which it severely lacks and that utility was the AOE damage.

You make a good point, but I’ll admit it’s hard not to say that this kills P/P, especially because of how well it synced with Pistol Mastery (obviously), Signet of Malice, and Invigorating Precision. Ricochet provided more than just AoE damage. It provided much-needed sustainability (which also suffers even more with the removal of Feline Grace as well) and even a bit of CC as well with Body Shot and Headshot. Above all else, though, it was fun.

Without Ricochet, many of these builds are indeed dead (or at least severely crippled) because they relied so heavily on that multi-target bounce. As I’ve said a few times already, I only had to run around Silverwastes for a bit to find that out. I’m currently running P/P + S/P, but I’m probably gonna be forced to substitute one of those sets for shortbow because I don’t feel like I contribute very much anymore… and that is exactly what shouldn’t happen with these patches. It severely hinders build diversity, which completely contradicts Anet’s original “play how you want” mantra.

I honestly believe the real reason for why it was removed was in the devs mind, they wanted to make room for other trait selections, and within this new system where its limited to 3 choices per tier, felt ricochet wouldn’t be missed. I think this thread and its view count provide enough proof that it has indeed affected a very significant portion of the player base.

so, maybe the devs were right, I’ll play devils advocate. They had to make room for more interesting trait synergy and something needed to be let go. Ricochet got the axe. Fine. But what I’d like to see happen is add that functionality back into the weaponset.

pistol #1 A 7-10% chance on crit to regain 1 initiative.
pistol 2-5 have the ability to either pierce or bounce to targets.

this puts us back in business and doesn’t require any further changes to the traitline.

We want Ricochet back, or AT LEAST an explanation as to why it was removed.

It doesn’t matter if it was good for PvE or not widely use for PvP.

Ricochet was simply fun. And helped on solo surviving in PvE when multiple foes were sourrounding you eg in SW!

Please restore this trait. I only created and was using thief in PvE because of P/P unload skill and ricochet trait! And many of us enjoyed playing P/P.

PvE is to have fun. Thats why we see people run naked or with cooker clothes. That’s exactly what P/P unload with Ricochet was.

F-U-N ! Don’t kill this.

It was likely too hard to balance for S/P and P/D… that it crushed P/P was probably a side effect. I say crushed, because the change took a weapon combo that was already seldom played due to weaknesses and and further increased that weakness without any making up for it in another aspect in any way.

The only think P/P has going for it in the current game is aesthetics. I already had to swap to my Guardian for group WvW, Warrior for PvE farming , and any build BUT P/P for dungeons…

Maybe they can give our #3 ability as an option to engineers :P

Luna Leon.3480:

It doesn’t matter if it was good for PvE or not widely use for PvP.

Ricochet was simply fun. And helped on solo surviving in PvE when multiple foes were sourrounding you eg in SW!

Please restore this trait. I only created and was using thief in PvE because of P/P unload skill and ricochet trait! And many of us enjoyed playing P/P.

PvE is to have fun. Thats why we see people run naked or with cooker clothes. That’s exactly what P/P unload with Ricochet was.

F-U-N ! Don’t kill this.

Yea, I feel like my entire gw2 experience was obliterated because they took away my ricochet.

Seabreeze.8437:

babazhook.6805:

I would suggest that people wanting to see Ricochet return , not resort to hyperbole. Every single professions thread critiquing a given skills change or demise does the same claiming it will ruin the class and means the end of a specific build.

This does not help make our case.

The removal of Ricochet is not the death of P/P. It is a diminishing of the same for no real reason and has an impact on the weapons utility as a skill which it severely lacks and that utility was the AOE damage.

You make a good point, but I’ll admit it’s hard not to say that this kills P/P, especially because of how well it synced with Pistol Mastery (obviously), Signet of Malice, and Invigorating Precision. Ricochet provided more than just AoE damage. It provided much-needed sustainability (which also suffers even more with the removal of Feline Grace as well) and even a bit of CC as well with Body Shot and Headshot. Above all else, though, it was fun.

Without Ricochet, many of these builds are indeed dead (or at least severely crippled) because they relied so heavily on that multi-target bounce. As I’ve said a few times already, I only had to run around Silverwastes for a bit to find that out. I’m currently running P/P + S/P, but I’m probably gonna be forced to substitute one of those sets for shortbow because I don’t feel like I contribute very much anymore… and that is exactly what shouldn’t happen with these patches. It severely hinders build diversity, which completely contradicts Anet’s original “play how you want” mantra.

I never really used SOM as I preffered the utility of the Withdraw in my old p/p build with it having an evade , opening gaps and cleansing that nasty immobilize. Now my overall damage on a single target has jumped significantly meaning each hit garners me more health. (I did turn on SOM when I was safe from direct attack such as shooting at mobs from castle walls.It was quite fun and quickly broke up their groups)

It hard to tell yet but I used to see regular unloads between 20 and 30 percent lower before against same target which of course translates into 20 or 30 percent more healing off the IP today. It almost equal to one of those bounces and has the advantage that you do not need that extra bounce for the heal.(Remember all 8 shots did not bounce to second target or the third). The real key in the old build was not the IP, it was in fact the extra heal from the SOM if one was using it.

This means of course in smaller battles one is further ahead and very much so. It also means that there less utility in the SOM heal.

A real key loss that compromises the ability to survive is the overall loss of Vitality for those that used to trait the old PT and or go into the Acro line. I am still using my old gear which as all Zerker/assassins and might have to integrate a bit of vitality into the set.

That all said my ability to survive condtions is indeed higher using the new trickster trait. I had a devil of a time cleansing those before and found myself having to trait SR and shadows embrace just to get enough. I do not have to do that anymore. In other words what we may have lost in that sustain from those bounces balances out with having more available condition cleanses to keep that damage off in the first place. You will not notice this as much in PVE as we all know the exposure to condition damage is much lower.

That all said I also test P/p in an alternate Thief build using a condition build coupled with traps and it works very well there and is much more fun than was p/d. The fun factor of the old p/p unload was very significant and I do think that AOE is badly needed in the set for the sake of utility and to allow the Thief a bit more ability to help his team in those larger scale battles. The thief already can feel quite useless here compared to the other classes and the removal dimisnhes what little he had in such fights. Unloading into a densely packed mob with that AOE was in fact a factor in breaking them up.

Right now at this moment there are tons of balance issues existing in the game. Burst damage is killing people in mere seconds. Fire damage seems way too high relative to other conditions. Until that all cleaned up (whether through player adaptation or patches) it really hard to make an accurate assessment as to the state of any given weaponset.

There’s definitely something wrong with their system at its core if they need to cripple one weaponset just to balance the others.

Zeem.2564:

There’s definitely something wrong with their system at its core if they need to cripple one weaponset just to balance the others.

This is definitely the issue I see. I’m all for adding/modifying traits and skills to promote build diversity, but it should never be at the cost of an existing build unless the build in question is totally OP and is in need of a nerf. That was not the case for dual pistols as it wasn’t OP by any stretch of the imagination. It was fun and different. Underused perhaps, but that should call for devs to look into ways to improve it, not cripple it to near uselessness.

Still no response I see.. ricochet thief, just another victim of devs’ callous insistence that people play the classes the way they want them played.. 3 years too late.. with no research done to see what the players actually enjoy.

“Warriors are using their adrenaline to chased down foes or prime alpha strikes with Eviscerate, Kill Shot, or Combustive Shot! This isn’t what WE want now, so let’s cripple adrenaline!”

“Rangers are throwing their traps around offensively and using them to keep foes at bay! This isn’t what WE want now, so let’s remove trap throwing!”

“Thieves are using their pistols to have fun in a way that isn’t overpowered or hurts anything! This isn’t what WE want, so let’s completely neuter pistols!”

“You guys aren’t playing our classes right!! We have to be Esports!! Quick, remove all complex or creative builds, and just buff the damage of the 3 meta builds we approve of so twitch streams look more dynamic!”

Zeem.2564:

There’s definitely something wrong with their system at its core if they need to cripple one weaponset just to balance the others.

Well put. Especially one that wasn’t/hasn’t been so strong to start with.

Stormclaw.5031:

Still no response I see.. ricochet thief, just another victim of devs’ callous insistence that people play the classes the way they want them played.. 3 years too late.. with no research done to see what the players actually enjoy.

“Warriors are using their adrenaline to chased down foes or prime alpha strikes with Eviscerate, Kill Shot, or Combustive Shot! This isn’t what WE want now, so let’s cripple adrenaline!”

“Rangers are throwing their traps around offensively and using them to keep foes at bay! This isn’t what WE want now, so let’s remove trap throwing!”

“Thieves are using their pistols to have fun in a way that isn’t overpowered or hurts anything! This isn’t what WE want, so let’s completely neuter pistols!”

“You guys aren’t playing our classes right!! We have to be Esports!! Quick, remove all complex or creative builds, and just buff the damage of the 3 meta builds we approve of so twitch streams look more dynamic!”

Well said. That’s what it really feels like. Especially when they’re quoted in a twitch channel saying that Ricochet “doesn’t fit the purity of pistols.” Move along…

My P/P D/D thief is the only character I have that has 100% map completion. He’s sadly been relegated to full-time mining/gathering duty because he simply can no longer contend with this game’s large dynamic events that require constant AoE for tagging mobs. If you see me doing an event it’s only because it got in the way of an Iron Ore I was headed to.

Play shortbow? No thanks. I gave that weapon an honest try at one point but something about it just felt off. It sucks because he’s probably my favorite character and with his Old West theme, fits perfectly in the landscape of the Silverwastes and Drytop. Some of the best times I’ve had in this game where playing into that specific archetype. I never cared if it was meta or not. But at the time, it at least remained competitive in open world PvE and out of the characters I have leveled, was second only to Guardian Staff in its ability to tag mobs & contribute to group events.

ok now let’s not let this thread die :p
(I kinda ran out of things to add tho)

Can we all agree that we do NOT want Ricochet back in the form of having to choose between Ricochet and another absolutely vital trait? We want it where it was originally in the Trickery trait line, or as a basic function of how pistol works period.

And we want it back as it worked before – we don’t want it back with anything less than its original 50% to bounce to additional targets.

CuteLilKittenHugz.2064:

And we want it back as it worked before – we don’t want it back with anything less than its original 50% to bounce to additional targets.

Ironically, Cute: That 50% was a buff … the original Ricochet -IIRC- was 25%. Even more ironic that ANet’d buff Ricochet, then months later, crapcan it with an obviously bullskritt reasoning.

Haha yeah not the “original” as in “start of the game”, “original” as in “how things were right before the new trait system”.

Yeah I love that “purity of the weapon” nonsense. I read that and thought "Fool this is a game with dragons and magic weapons. Eles sport daggers being used as a whip made out of lightning. How’s that keep the purity of a dagger? And a bullet having a chance to ricochet is far closer to real life than an arrow bouncing between targets – I’m looking at YOU thief Shortbow skill#1. "

Sadly, Anet has created the issue of less traits to work with. So to put Ricochet back in the game, they would either need to make it baseline or remove an existing trait.

I would also guess they do not want to have multiple specific weapon traits. Currently Dagger and Pistol each have 1 trait, while Sword and Shortbow have no specific traits. (Yes, I’m ignoring the underwater weapons. No one is taking Ankle shots for their Harpoon gun.)

So… I think we would like them to add Ricochet back in place of Ankle Shots. In addition, the added range should be baseline line they have done for other professions. Maybe the new trait would be something like this.

“Ricochet: Pistol shots have a chance to bounce to an additional target. Critical hits with pistols have a chance to cripple foes. Pistol attacks deal increased damage to crippled foes.”

We lose the better damage modifier we had, but as they removed that from dagger too, I doubt we’ll get it back.

Tbh I’d take Ricochet back at the expense of any other trait. I just want my AoE back, end of story.

Concur, gave this more runs and still feels off. Needs a pierce in the least though ricochet was a more interesting mechanic. I know there was plenty of RNG involved but take PvP, was a matter of trying to figure out what target might connect to other deeper into a group that made some shots more challenging and fun to try.

But as I said add pierce as baseline in the least.

I will be glad to bump this thread. Some of us have hit it on the head. The p/p build with ricochet was just plain fun. Not op or meta , just fun. Anet seems to be walking a very dangerous line with this and other classes builds trying to tell us how to play the classes and what the classes should and shouldnt do and basically nerfing creativity and variety of builds to dust. I dont want meta, just fun, because this is a game and I want to play it whichever way makes it fun for me. Sadly Anet is more and more trying to tell us how we HAVE to play our classes and taking away more and more options.

I just read the caption with the reply of the devs concerning the absence of ricochet.
Man, did it felt like a spit in the face.
It really does feel like they won’t dignify this thread with their presence.

Reminder anet, there are other mmos coming out soon, if you don’t respect the players, you’re gonna get burned.
Ricochet DID NOT break the game !

I’m actually pretty disappointed that we no longer have ricochet and I’ve been trying to search through the new traits to find an alternative and or a new way to continue to make the Dual Pistol Thief viable in my eyes but nothing so far; has anyone come up with some ideas or builds that could possibly make up for the loss of Ricochet?

Aedros.1439:

I will be glad to bump this thread. Some of us have hit it on the head. The p/p build with ricochet was just plain fun. Not op or meta , just fun. Anet seems to be walking a very dangerous line with this and other classes builds trying to tell us how to play the classes and what the classes should and shouldnt do and basically nerfing creativity and variety of builds to dust. I dont want meta, just fun, because this is a game and I want to play it whichever way makes it fun for me. Sadly Anet is more and more trying to tell us how we HAVE to play our classes and taking away more and more options.

This most of all is my concern and gripe. I always make weird builds no matter the game I play. I love trying odd things, developing queer play styles, and making the unusual ‘work’. I tend to get bored and dump a mmo once game managers get it in their heads they should ‘streamline’ whatever customization traits they had for their character classes. I have no doubt that thieves and all the classes and their traits are entirely workable and playable. But idiot proofing a system makes it so .. boring.

Silence.7891:

has anyone come up with some ideas or builds that could possibly make up for the loss of Ricochet?

spec in the power tree, the crit tree and the steal recharge tree,
(i forget the names sorry!)
grab everything damage related and you’ll be pumping out 20k dmg in 3 seconds with unload

i really do miss ricochet, but the new fury and quickness traits make for some pretty epic burst and overall A LOT more single target damage than before.

Since it was supposed to be in grand master critical strike, adding the bouncing properties to no quarter would be the logical thing to do, effectively putting back the whole aspect of original ricochet but spread out into two traits.

BUT, trickery is where this trait should belong. It’s where it was to begin with, and making bullets bounce is really some kind of trick shot.
idealy adding the bouncing to the current master trait trickster, and making the 1050 range baseline imo
It would leave people more leeway to go for condi pistol, or burst pistol

I’ll be honest, while I’d like to see Ricochet returned exactly as it was… I’d be happy if it was at least added as a baseline to unload. I can get past the range decrease, I can get past the loss of aoe when I play -/p or p/-…

but I really don’t see when I’d play p/p without it in the current environment (even, and especially, as a second weapon set).

Ok, so this thread has been seen by 7470 people and has 193 Responses – NO Anet response.

Engineer
Thread name: Why the half effort? - Seen by 7567 people and has 69 Responses – Anet responded there.

Guardian
Thread name: Thanks for buffing Shield - Seen by 10949 people and has 131 Responses – Anet responded there.

Mesmer
Thread name: And yet another Mesmer nerf - Seen by 10650 people and has 185 Responses – Anet responded there.

Basically Elementalists, Necromancers, Rangers, Thiefs and Warriors dont freaking exist for them.

This thread has been seen by less people, but has more responses.
Because. We. Care.

Clearly Anet Doesn’t.

Hyperbole there… but really tired of the radio silence on what seems to be an important issue.

Jon_Peters:

ricochet was a mix of too hard to balance, too much RNG, and reduced purity of pistols.

1. You hardly ever tweaked it.
2. Look around your game, you have RNG everywhere.
3. Thieve’s pistol rounds cannot ricochet because that takes away from the purity of pistols.
   Meanwhile Engineer’s can fire poison darts, lightning bolts, jets of flame, & glue.

Thief without pistol ricochet == thief without pistols.
Thief without pistols == I don’t log in anymore.

ricochet doesn’t fit the purity of weapon? what?
oh.. but hammer as ranged weapon on revenant is totally spot on, right?
offhand pistol 5 on mesmer bounces! 3 times! THREE! but I guess that’s all right, no problem with that logic
stop this BS
WE WANT RICOCHET BACK !!