Guild Wars 2

This basically has taken the fun out of playing my thief. The one trait that made the P/P a viable and fun choice is gone. Sad to see arena net destroy a whole option for thief like that. Might as well resource kit my second pistol at this point and put him on the side bench of characters to play. I’m not holding my breath that the Elite reveal will have this coming back.

Just keeping this post up there. I swear, even though I find myself playing a little less since the patch, each time playing makes me miss ricochet that much more. Let’s just face it, they are making the thief just as boring as a guardian with a mace and shield (shhhhh).

I must agree with the majority opinion in this thread, and also must post to keep the topic alive. Losing Ricochet has made me lose all interest in my thief, a character that was previously one of my favorites to play. All this time and still no DEV response… fishy.

Can I get my money back, which I spent on my Thief?

I am not logging into the game until ricochet is brought back…… sad face.

Dodom.1760:

Losing Ricochet has made me lose all interest in my thief, a character that was previously one of my favorites to play. All this time and still no DEV response… fishy.

Same here. Losing this trait has effectively killed my desire to play this class anymore. I still log on to him but only because he’s attained 100% map completion and can hit up all the rich iron & plat nodes really fast. Once my gathering is over I simply log back onto a character that can more reliably tag mobs in places like Cursed Shores and the Silverwastes.

11K views. No really lets discuss ricochet. P/P thief is not the same. Let’s get a dialog going here already.

You can’t replace something that worked with nothing that doesn’t. If the shots ricocheting made it too similar to shortbow, why not make pistol shots pierce or explode on impact or anything else? I’m hoping they have some sort of plan (though why they’d remove ricochet before having a substitute is absolutely beyond me), but how long must we wait while pistols remain the clown town comedy option?

stof.9341:

What is wrong with using Shortbow for AoE situations and switching to P/P for single target situations?

The Ricochet removal was probably done because Shortbow is the AoE weapon and Pistol the single target one.

Because I have P/P as my ranged weapon set and S/P as my melee weapon set and I don’t want to be forced into using a weapon that I didn’t need to before.

Why does shortbow have to be our only source of ranged AoE? This is part of the argument against Anet forcing us to change a play style we’ve worked with since release. There’s nothing wrong with adding more build diversity through elite specs and things like that, but to completely take away certain builds just seems so counterproductive if you ask me, especially when there really wasn’t anything wrong with them in the first place.

Well… if Ricochet can’t come back for whatever reason, then we should continue brainstorming alternate ideas for it or ideas on how to make it function better. Otherwise, simply repeating “bring back Ricochet” is going to get us nowhere (even though I do want Ricochet to come back). Anet probably knows by now that we want Ricochet back first and foremost.

going inactive again!!. I will be back when they make any progress with the thief class.

Einlanzer.1627:

All That is Left.7806:

Zeem.2564:

I’d probably be willing to accept P/P as a single-target class if that single target damage was actually decent.

But no, all that’s happened is nerf, nerf and nerf. They might as well just delete Thief altogether for the ‘purity’ of the game as a whole.

Thats the most laughable statement I’ve seen on this thread. Because you can’t use p/p to the degree you could before, Thief is useless now? lmao You sir, deserve all the win. GG!

It’s actually common knowledge at this point that the thief is much weaker than it should be.

Yeah, I’m sure thats the case. It just sounds like the some BS people cried over when they added adrenaline degen/loss on Warriors months ago because, you know, having that applied to the Warrior profession made them unplayable, right? Did all the people back then roll Thiefs or something? Looks like your going to roll something else now, huh? Ha, I hope you have better luck with your next choice!

I quit playing GW2 with the issues around the cost of the expansion. After reading that Anet has now killed all viability of my favorite class/build, I have absolutely no plans of returning to the game now.

Looks like I’ll be playing another MMO then. Heck, the new Xpack for SWTOR looks decent.

All That is Left.7806:

Einlanzer.1627:

It’s actually common knowledge at this point that the thief is much weaker than it should be.

Yeah, I’m sure thats the case. It just sounds like the some BS people cried over when they added adrenaline degen/loss on Warriors months ago because, you know, having that applied to the Warrior profession made them unplayable, right? Did all the people back then roll Thiefs or something? Looks like your going to roll something else now, huh? Ha, I hope you have better luck with your next choice!

Umm, that’s kind of a different scenario, dude. The warrior’s adrenaline is a core mechanic, and the change to its functionality didn’t really have any detrimental impact on any particular build to my knowledge. These thief changes completely compromised some builds that were perfectly fine and fun to play.

Thieves as a class aren’t completely useless, that’s not what I’m saying. They may be less meta now, but they are still viable. I still love my gunslinger thief main. I’ll admit, however, that my style of play—a style that revolved around Ricochet—doesn’t quite feel the same anymore, especially given that I primarily play PvE where mobs are pretty much always prevalent. The biggest problem players have with this is that it feels like Anet is forcing us to play how they think thieves should be played. Rather than promoting build diversity, it’s looking more and more like there’s going to be a one-and-only thief build pretty soon, even in PvE, and having every single thief playing exactly the same is going to get dull fast. That’s why we’re clinging to the hope that Anet will bring some much-needed support to the dual pistol build through a future elite specialization, since that may be where we get the build diversity Anet promised.

My like my main far too much to shelf her, but I do feel the impact of Ricochet’s removal. Some players have decided to take a break from the game because of it, and that’s entirely their choice. Me, I’m playing less than I used to, but I’m certainly not uninstalling the game or anything. I’m an avid role-player and too attached to my characters to just up and leave like that. I’m adjusting to the change and still running P/P + S/P, albeit with a slightly altered trait build. I just hope that Anet is considering ways to bring dual pistols back to the crazy fun it used to be, or even better.

So to reiterate, we’re talking about the reduction of build diversity, something that the warrior adrenaline degen change didn’t really affect. Why do you feel the need to mock those that find this important? It’s kind of a big deal. (shrugs)

Yeah it’s totally official. Getting rid of ricochet totally kills Thief P/P (which means for me it kills all GW2 PvP). Guess I can try giving the SB a shot, but doubt it will be the same. In this game, genuine snipe nests are pretty rare and pulling a thief out of one is pretty easy, so when you manage to stay up in one over the course of a gate fight, blasting away with pistols SHOULD be pretty effective! It no longer is. Done. I’m gonna take a break from GW2 PvP. I’ll retry with SB to see if I can get back into it in a couple weeks.

Anet said riccochet was too much RNG, so it had to be removed? That is BS, plain and simple. Firstly, what about the RNG from other classes? They’re fine, but riccochet is not?

Secondly, there’s an easy way to remove the RNG factor: 100% chance to bounce, but does 50% damage on the second target, and 25% on the third. This is not complicated.

Anet could have went down this route, but instead of actually trying to rework the skill, they just outright removed it, despite that a sizable amount of players heavily relied on the skill. This is a very poor way to address game issues.

@Seabreeze
“The biggest problem players have with this is that it feels like Anet is forcing us to play how they think thieves should be played.”

To be completely fair, and a little pedantic, Anet has always forced our playstyles. They create all the traits, weapon skills, and utility skills we use which determine our playstyles to begin with. Ultimately, it’s within their power to further define certain playstyles, even if many people don’t like it.

Some people, especially in this thread, seem to become overly melodramatic when Anet makes a change said perople don’t approve of. There are somewhat few people here that seem to not be carried away by the whims of their emotions

@Ausfer
“Pistol skills now deal +75% damage and multiply effects to nearby targets”
This is what you suggested.

In Tyria, bouncy axes and arrows are okay, but bouncy bullets are just dumb.

Well the good side is, now that Ricochet and it’s kind of balancing nightmare is gone, you can push for more power in P/P to make up for the fact the set is kind of weak :p

It’s a similar issue in Venom Share : the sharing is so strong the non shared venoms need to be pitifully weak.

For starters, improving base the damage and bleeds of the autoattack would be nice I suppose.

I was so bummed to see this train eliminated. It was easily in my top 3 favorite Thief traits. It isn’t that useful in PvP and since that is all the devs seem to care about they removed it from the traits. Ricochet was an awesome trait for PvE and a good one for zerg/zerg WvW.

I use to play my thief constantly in the Silverwastes and Dry top, but now without Ricochet I’ve lost interest. Really would love to see them bring this trait back.

Ghotistyx.6942:

To be completely fair, and a little pedantic, Anet has always forced our playstyles. They create all the traits, weapon skills, and utility skills we use which determine our playstyles to begin with. Ultimately, it’s within their power to further define certain playstyles, even if many people don’t like it.

Yyyyyyeah, that is a little pedantic, but a fair point nonetheless. Anet does indeed have the final say so in what traits/builds the players are allowed, but in my opinion it just feels like they are moving backwards with the thief profession. We’ve wanted more support for dual pistols for so long, and instead they removed the single trait which made it so much fun, especially in PvE.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Some people, especially in this thread, seem to become overly melodramatic when Anet makes a change said perople don’t approve of. There are somewhat few people here that seem to not be carried away by the whims of their emotions

I apologize if I seem like one of those people, Ghotistyx. As I said in my previous post, I didn’t make this thread to be an “I quit” topic or an “I hate Anet” topic. I’m not uninstalling the game because I still enjoy it and I love my characters and role-playing with them and my friends. I’m working with the changes, and even put together a decent damage-dealing build with my main gunslinger asura, but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t disappointed with the loss of Ricochet overall.

I’m still clinging to the hope that Anet has future plans for a gunslinger elite spec where we will get all our firearms support. I know that melee staff is looking to be the next elite spec for thieves, but I also know that there will be more elite specs in the future.

My main purpose is simply to make Anet aware of how impactful their decision to remove Ricochet was to the thief community, and to brainstorm possible ways to either bring it back or substitute with something that is just as good, if not better. That said, I’m very open to all points of view. Perhaps Anet will see something here they can work with, and at the end of the day, that’s all I really want. I’m not going to demand that they officially respond here either, that’s entirely up to them. I trust that they do in fact sift through these forums, despite popular opinion suggesting otherwise.

Well, as stof said, Ricochet might have been the thing holding p/p back. With its removal, we should be able to see many different changes and improvements to the set that would otherwise be impossible. I’ll mention again, I thoroughly enjoyed having ricochet on my thief, and I was also sad to see it go. However, I’ve also realized life will go on without the trait, and it leaves the door open for some significant changes to p/p. Even if it stays as a single target ranged spec focused on Unload, it has a chance to further excel at that instead of people fearing broken effects when paired with ricochet. We might also see an improved, better for everyone ricochet.

And no, you weren’t ever really over of the over dramatic people. It was more a commentary of the… Forums as a whole I guess. I just got done reading a post saying that they’re going to drop ele as a main because warhorn was confirmed for Tempest. As if anyone knows what warhorn is going to do for Tempest, or what the elite spec as a whole will offer. Why do these people have such low patience and such irrational judgements?

All that P/P discussion though made me want a P/P set to replace my shortbow in some specific PvE. In particular I mean the kind of solo bosses that I don’t want to melee at all like the dredge fractal final bosses but where AoE is of little use.

It’ll sure improve my DPS in those situations, I wonder why I didn’t think about it :p You can even make a very potent P/P build while using only two pistols staggered between the weapon swaps and use the acro trait for initiative on swap. All that for only two weapons.

Perhaps an Anet game designer could weigh-in on this issue? I’m of the opinion removing ricochet has crippled the P/P Thief build to the point of making it unbearable to play. Does Anet have any intentions of addressing this issue considering that they created it or will they let it fester? Some goodwill and honest insight would be appreciated….perhaps the yet to be announced specialization will address this?

Chaoslord.5439:

I’m of the opinion removing ricochet has crippled the P/P Thief build to the point of making it unbearable to play.

Most people on this thread agree with that. Other people seem to think we have nothing to complain about.

Their view: Does it work? Sure. So be happy with that and all the possibilities we can dream of.

Our view:
Does it work anywhere near as effectively as it used to? NO.
Is it viable in PvP with all the buffs other classes have received? Not even close.
Has it crippled PvE and WvW play? Big time.
Is it fun to use anymore? Nope.
Are we upset that something that worked great and wasn’t OP has been nerfed into “frustrating to use” territory? YES.

Bring it back aNet.

Shogun.7401:

We need Ricochet back

CuteLilKittenHugz.2064:

Most people on this thread agree with that. Other people seem to think we have nothing to complain about.

Their view: Does it work? Sure. So be happy with that and all the possibilities we can dream of.

Our view:
Does it work anywhere near as effectively as it used to? NO.
Is it viable in PvP with all the buffs other classes have received? Not even close.
Has it crippled PvE and WvW play? Big time.
Is it fun to use anymore? Nope.
Are we upset that something that worked great and wasn’t OP has been nerfed into “frustrating to use” territory? YES.

Bring it back aNet.

Glad to see there’s no bias anywhere.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Glad to see there’s no bias anywhere.

You must’ve not read your own posts. Search for “very vocal minority” you’ll find them.

Still no response from Anet, I’m still not logging in. C’mon Anet—-throw us a bone.

Just bumping us to the top of the list again. I did some more poking today and I still rock on single target, but switching to that kitten short bow for AoE is just NOT working. I feel more like i’m tickling the targets than doing any actual damage. Come on anet! Give us an update on what you will be giving us or SOMEthing.

I don’t think a situation where a certain weapon set requires a certain trait to work is a very good one. It’s a trait tax situation. I also had a P/P thief that I very much liked, especially after I managed to counteract his extreme squishyness through self-heal. When Ricochet was removed I decided to scrap him and start a new, sword-focused thief, because I just couldn’t see it working.

What P/P needs, I guess, is some way to better deal with groups without having a mandatory trait.

Morty.4721:

What P/P needs, I guess, is some way to better deal with groups without having a mandatory trait.

Why?

I don’t see why having a “mandatory” trait is a bad thing. There are plenty of other professions who have a “mandatory” trait for certain weapon(s) to be viable in various situations. (For example traits that grant reduced CD and bonus damage to a certain weapon, or traits that add “pierce” to projectile weapons). No one seems to have a problem with traits being intrinsic to the viability of using weapons for other professions, so why is Ricochet for Thief the exception?

I say it’s not. There absolutely should be Traits that make weapons much more useful, that way you are forced to give up one advantage in favor of gaining another while picking your Trait line. It encourages build diversity.

CuteLilKittenHugz.2064:

Morty.4721:

What P/P needs, I guess, is some way to better deal with groups without having a mandatory trait.

Why?

I don’t see why having a “mandatory” trait is a bad thing. There are plenty of other professions who have a “mandatory” trait for certain weapon(s) to be viable in various situations. (For example traits that grant reduced CD and bonus damage to a certain weapon, or traits that add “pierce” to projectile weapons). No one seems to have a problem with traits being intrinsic to the viability of using weapons for other professions, so why is Ricochet for Thief the exception?

I say it’s not. There absolutely should be Traits that make weapons much more useful, that way you are forced to give up one advantage in favor of gaining another while picking your Trait line. It encourages build diversity.

It is a bad thing, even if other professions have it. Traits should provide thematic bonuses, they shouldn’t be band-aids for an underpowered or dysfunctional weapon set.

Well dang. I just got back into the game with intent to play through all the story I could.
After catching myself up on the story so far with an alt, I switch to my main. I created him specifically to be a duel pistol gunslinger, the only thing I am interested in playing long term in this game.

The first thing I notice, is that Im only hitting one target, so high lvl mobs = death.

If I wanted to play a melee character, Id be playing warrior or guardian. If I wanted to play with a bow, like every other kitten mmo there is, Id play a ranger.

The only thing that made GW2 unique to me was playing my bad kitten duel wielding midget.

I love the GW lore, so maybe Ill try to find another way to stay interested, but its going to be hard when the character I spent literally all my time and resources on is forced to play weapon sets that I have no interest in.

ps. the profanity regs on this forum are archaic.

I’m surprised Anet has actually let this thread go through 7 pages of the same things without saying anything on the matter further. I didn’t know how they thought they could just dismiss countless builds with such a weird statement. Heck, who was even complaining about ricochet? Why are the devs so inconsistent in trying to fix problems?

I just want to add my support to this complaint. I’m disappointed at how impacted thieves have been in general by the trait changes with some trait options just being poor such as poison on dagger strikes with dagger hit 2 already applying poison…

My main has been thief since beta and I love the class, it’s sad to see how one dimensional it’s become.

Einlanzer.1627:

It is a bad thing, even if other professions have it. Traits should provide thematic bonuses, they shouldn’t be band-aids for an underpowered or dysfunctional weapon set.

Underpowered compared to what? Other weapons that are ALSO boosted by traits. If aNet does what you’re suggesting, then every weapon for every profession would get serious buffs and then there’s an issue with balance. Using traits to enhance a weapon’s viability is not a band-aid solution, it’s a way to create balance and build diversity. That is exactly why Ricochet (and many other traits among other professions) existed in the first place, and one of the many reasons why it needs to be brought back.

Well compare P boosts to D and S. Ricochet was a clear outlier here since it was much much stronger than the equivalent traits we have :p

In fact, I think the current and only Pistol trait left for us is the best of our weapon specialization traits.

Timiok.1048:

I’m surprised Anet has actually let this thread go through 7 pages of the same things without saying anything on the matter further. I didn’t know how they thought they could just dismiss countless builds with such a weird statement. Heck, who was even complaining about ricochet? Why are the devs so inconsistent in trying to fix problems?

Because the Dev in charge of thieves doesn’t even play his. He goes upwards to 2 weeks or more without even logging his in, and can’t even remember what some traits do.

uglydan.1638:

Timiok.1048:

I’m surprised Anet has actually let this thread go through 7 pages of the same things without saying anything on the matter further. I didn’t know how they thought they could just dismiss countless builds with such a weird statement. Heck, who was even complaining about ricochet? Why are the devs so inconsistent in trying to fix problems?

Because the Dev in charge of thieves doesn’t even play his. He goes upwards to 2 weeks or more without even logging his in, and can’t even remember what some traits do.

Are you serious? Because if you are that would explain a whole lot of things…

I finally got around to logging back in after many months away. Brought my P/P thief out to WvW to evaluate things.

So far, here’s how it looks to me:

I’m happy with the range bonus on Ankle Shot, I just wish I wasn’t forced to trait Ankle Shots to get the range. Make pistols longer range already or package range and other goodies into a trait aimed at Pistols.

Single target DPS is pretty good… provided the target stands still. As has always been the case with P/P in WvW, the shorter range envelope means that the target can escape more easily and to get back into range, you have to put yourself even deeper into their group’s envelope. That’s death for thieves.

Initiative has always been an issue, with the loss of Initiative generation on crit trait (I forget it’s name), it’s an actual problem to contend with. Ricochet allowed you to generate the initiative off many people so if 1 moves out of range, you’re still doing ok. Alas for ricochet. If the single shot pistol skills were worth anything, I’d complain less. However, the single shot skills are all balanced and purposed for PvP and 1v1 type battles. You can’t interrupt a group and interrupting a single player in the group is mostly pointless. Of course, even it were great, the short range envelope would get you killed. Without the extra intiative, you’re reduced to no initiative and if you want to keep firing, you’re stuck with crappy pistol skills which then eat into your initiative regeneration.

SoM still works and with the extra DPS, I guess it’s about the same… provided the target stands still/in range. Ricochet allowed you to generate the heals off many people so if 1 moves out of range, you’re still doing ok. Alas for ricochet.

The way the trait lines are arranged, you end up with choices that don’t really play to the P/P style’s strengths or shore up it’s weaknesses. On the plus side, there’s more condition cleanse options than ever. If only I could operate on the edge of enemy range envelope, so that the conditions aren’t instantly reapplied by every enemy in the area.

In PvE and WvW, one of the things that drives me crazy is that without much in the way of ranged options or long enough range options, is that everyone else can generate enough AoE effects to tag all the targets, which means they get in on more kills and get more loots. That is incredibly annoying. In many cases, in the time it takes to proc an Unload, the entire mob has been wiped out.

Anyway, that’s my two cents

Timiok.1048:

uglydan.1638:

Timiok.1048:

I’m surprised Anet has actually let this thread go through 7 pages of the same things without saying anything on the matter further. I didn’t know how they thought they could just dismiss countless builds with such a weird statement. Heck, who was even complaining about ricochet? Why are the devs so inconsistent in trying to fix problems?

Because the Dev in charge of thieves doesn’t even play his. He goes upwards to 2 weeks or more without even logging his in, and can’t even remember what some traits do.

Are you serious? Because if you are that would explain a whole lot of things…

It’s true. In one of the videos they did, he came out and said that he hadn’t touched his thief in 2 weeks and couldn’t remember what the traits were.

Black Frog.9274:

Initiative has always been an issue, with the loss of Initiative generation on crit trait (I forget it’s name), it’s an actual problem to contend with. Ricochet allowed you to generate the initiative off many people so if 1 moves out of range, you’re still doing ok.

Opportunist…that 50% chance on crit to gain initiative was a huge part of this build for us, especially in multitarget situations. Even in single target, this made rotations a lot easier. Now being REQUIRED to steal for initiative every 20 seconds or so is still not enough to keep up when high damage output is needed. The only thing that helps me keep up would be to equip Roll for Initiative, but even that has a 60 second CD and is really only good for when you are hanging heavily below 5 initiative.

uglydan.1638:

Because the Dev in charge of thieves doesn’t even play his. He goes upwards to 2 weeks or more without even logging his in, and can’t even remember what some traits do.

This isn’t WoW where there are devs that play and are in charge of professions (not that WoW even did that anyway)

Don’t make that Bollywood dub an excuse for your ignorance

Ghotistyx.6942:

uglydan.1638:

Because the Dev in charge of thieves doesn’t even play his. He goes upwards to 2 weeks or more without even logging his in, and can’t even remember what some traits do.

This isn’t WoW where there are devs that play and are in charge of professions (not that WoW even did that anyway)

Don’t make that Bollywood dub an excuse for your ignorance

Your ignorance is showing. There are devs in charge of balance for the various professions, but fanboys wanna fanboy.

Karl Mclain is in charge of Thieves and Elementalists. There’s one other profession he is in charge of, but i cannot remember which.

Don’t make accusations when you have no clue.

Ghotistyx.6942:

This isn’t WoW where there are devs that play and are in charge of professions (not that WoW even did that anyway)

Don’t make that Bollywood dub an excuse for your ignorance

uglydan.1638:

Your ignorance is showing. There are devs in charge of balance for the various professions, but fanboys wanna fanboy.

Karl Mclain is in charge of Thieves and Elementalists. There’s one other profession he is in charge of, but i cannot remember which.

Don’t make accusations when you have no clue.

So Ghosti, you keep vocalizing how everyone whose fun has been taken away by Ricochet’s removal are just whiny crybabies, no matter how many people post that it ruined the profession (and sometimes the entire game) for them. Nope their opinions are null and void because aNet is perfect and doesn’t make mistakes. You try and convince us Ricochet was broke and everyone should be happy with the change and wait for aNet. Now you attack Dan out of no where because (heaven forbid) he had something negative to say about an aNet employee, and promptly get rekt with facts.

Can you please explain how you are not a shill?

No uglydan, teams work on the development of professions, not just an individual. Just because there’s a spokesman doesn’t mean there isn’t more than one person involved.

Who is Ghosti?
What facts did he get rekt with?
Quote the person who said Anet is perfect.

If your entire Guildwars2 experience is ruined by the removal of one trait, you might have larger issues than just the removal of that one trait. You have the entire game available to you and that’s the reason to leave? I certainly won’t miss you.
I’ve only provided evidence supporting the notion ricochet was what Anet claimed it to be. Being happy about it is still your decision. At least now people have a different viewpoint to form their own opinions with instead of drowning in doom and gloom rhetoric.

But hey, I’m not the one getting worked up about the issue. I’m just trying to help people calm down, maybe even have a little optimism. But no, the peas are touching the gravy so throw the whole plate out and shut Asian the restaurant. I still get to enjoy what the game offers, including thief, so chances are I’m having the better experience.

(And how many names will you have to call someone before you get their actual name correct?)

If it were just Ricochet, I might agree with you. But the combined effects of the nerfs have killed what little good there was about P/P. It’s always been the red-headed stepchild, but these recent changes have really taken things to a new level. I’d like to see the devs put out a video showing how they expect P/P to be used. Maybe there’s something we’re missing.

I never really used ricochet. I wanted the range increase though but it wasn’t worth traiting for.

When the dev that is the face of the profession you play is admitting he doesn’t play it nor remembers much about, that right there is demoralizing. Look at the dev who is the face of the engineers. He’s interested in it, likes playing it, and they received a lot of nice new things. Not really so for the thief and it’s accompanying dev.

Whether it’s a team or a single person, when a representative of the company is so blase about something like profession balance, it’s near-insulting and really sends a message that he doesn’t care enough to be bothered.

Maybe I’m wrong, but appearances count for a lot in most circumstances.

Well if you want just the range, it’s not written but it Ankle Shot does increase it by 150 like Ricochet did.

In fact, Ankle Shot even inherited the “sneak attack” bug from Ricochet where you’d see the two versions of the pistol sneak attack talent.

Ghotistyx.6942:

I don’t care about the nerfs to p/p, and therefore anyone who used to enjoy the build and is upset that it’s been ruined need to grow up and quit whining because their opinion is WRONG and they shouldn’t be allowed to enjoy p/p builds in the first place.

This is seriously what you are sounding like in your last post.