Guild Wars 2

You forgot to quote the multiple times I said that I ran Ricochet, and how I was concerned with the future of my build post-specialization patch. You also neglected to quote any specific instance of claiming opinions are bad or wrong. Also, you neglected to quote any proof that I infact do not care about p/p nerfs, especially when I did run and continue to run p/p (which I’ve stated earlier).

But thanks for your support and concerns.

I’ve still been running my dual pistol build on my main, and have been finding a bit of success, but admittedly it’s not as enjoyable as it used to be.

The more time I’ve been without Ricochet though, the more I notice how bad all the other weapon skills are outside of very specific situations. I mean, I already knew they weren’t great, but the lack of Ricochet really brings to light how much help this set really needs.

• The auto-attack is arguably the worst AA in the game (terrible condition damage, even worse raw damage, and annoyingly slow rate-of-fire), and there is literally NO synergy between that and Unload given that Unload is all about DPS.
• Body Shot is pretty lackluster with conditions so short they’re meaningless unless you spend all your initiative to spam it, which isn’t worthwhile at all when you could just spam Unload instead.
• Headshot is a bit more useful (less so without Ricochet), but it still is very situational especially in PvE, and is typically still not as good as simply using Unload.
• Black Powder Shot got hit pretty hard with the nerf stick, making it far less useful than it used to be. I enjoy using it on S/P, but dual pistols are quite simply better off using Unload as the sustain from SoM and IP is better than trying to keep mobs blinded with BPS.

When a weapon set is almost entirely dependent on one single skill, you know there’s something wrong, especially when the auto attack is one of your worst skills as well.

I’ve suggested this before, but I feel like—because it’s hard to balance P/P without inadvertently overpowering other pistol builds like P/D and so on—the only way to bring dual pistols into a more respectable light is to make the entire skill set unique to that weapon combination. I know it’s a crazy idea, but this is where I believe elite specs could really shine. If they implement a Gunslinger elite spec, then perhaps only by speccing to that trait line would your dual pistols have a unique skill bar. I haven’t actually thought too much on what these unique skills would be, but maybe we can brainstorm and get some ideas going.

Dual pistols are in a weird place right now. I sincerely hope Anet is looking at this weapon set and exploring ways to bring it out of its current underwhelming , under-performing, and all-around lackluster state.

#gunslingers4life

Came back after a long hiatus to see what changed… found out that my favorite class/build has been effectively eliminated. I don’t even understand why. The P/P builds were marginal in their overall ability compared to every other class/build. The only reason to play the build was that it was simply fun to play.

Without ricochet mesmer fights must be ridiculously difficult, thieves can no longer put pressure on multiple targets at once and any other stealth build must be pure murderous to fight. Losing this ability really kicks this build to the curb in skirmish as well.

After playing every class to 80 and a few thousand hours in WvW, the P/P Ricochet build was by far my favorite. Oh well nothing good lasts in this game unless you are a mesmer, bunker ele or a D/P (I assume those have made the transition).

Ghotistyx.6942:

If your entire Guildwars2 experience is ruined by the removal of one trait, you might have larger issues than just the removal of that one trait. You have the entire game available to you and that’s the reason to leave? I certainly won’t miss you.

Your mistake here is that you are not looking at why people are really complaining. It was NOT just a single trait that was removed, but rather 3 traits removed. Ricochet just so happened to be the one that enhanced the effects of every single target effect and made this build actually worth something. Other traits removed are Pistol Mastery and Opportunist. Maybe if you paid more attention to this post earlier on, you might understand that.

This does not just go for you, but for anybody else saying that everybody should stop complaining for its removal. I mean, I would constantly remove the ricochet trait on single target fights or if we had really strong AoE in the group, but that wasn’t always the case. It was a VERY necessary trait (along with the other 2 i mentioned) to make this weapon set the slightest bit tolerable.

Girbilcannon.8259:

Your mistake here is that you are not looking at why people are really complaining. It was NOT just a single trait that was removed, but rather 3 traits removed. Ricochet just so happened to be the one that enhanced the effects of every single target effect and made this build actually worth something. Other traits removed are Pistol Mastery and Opportunist. Maybe if you paid more attention to this post earlier on, you might understand that.

In my case even more traits went belly up as Long Range and Master of Deception were removed. The P/P builds lack a built in stealthing component and had limited movement so MoD was very useful to get Blinding Powder, Shadow Refuge and Shadow Step back quickly.

Its like Anet looked at the P/P build and went, nope too powerful. Then looked at the PU mesmer and said, nope not powerful enough.

Straegen.2938:

In my case even more traits went belly up as Long Range and Master of Deception were removed. The P/P builds lack a built in stealthing component and had limited movement so MoD was very useful to get Blinding Powder, Shadow Refuge and Shadow Step back quickly.

Its like Anet looked at the P/P build and went, nope too powerful. Then looked at the PU mesmer and said, nope not powerful enough.

Master of Deception is still available : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Concealed_Defeat

Girbilcannon.8259:

Ghotistyx.6942:

If your entire Guildwars2 experience is ruined by the removal of one trait, you might have larger issues than just the removal of that one trait. You have the entire game available to you and that’s the reason to leave? I certainly won’t miss you.

Your mistake here is that you are not looking at why people are really complaining. It was NOT just a single trait that was removed, but rather 3 traits removed. Ricochet just so happened to be the one that enhanced the effects of every single target effect and made this build actually worth something. Other traits removed are Pistol Mastery and Opportunist. Maybe if you paid more attention to this post earlier on, you might understand that.

This does not just go for you, but for anybody else saying that everybody should stop complaining for its removal. I mean, I would constantly remove the ricochet trait on single target fights or if we had really strong AoE in the group, but that wasn’t always the case. It was a VERY necessary trait (along with the other 2 i mentioned) to make this weapon set the slightest bit tolerable.

No offense to Ghotistyx (at least I got your name right, though), but Girbilcannon makes a good point. This thread is focusing on the cornerstone of dual pistol builds, Ricochet, but in reality there were a handful of trait losses that contributed to it’s fall from… well, not from grace, since it was never really there to begin with… it’s fall from somewhere. I don’t like that the range boost was lumped into the mediocre Ankle Shots trait, and most of the others are either altered in a negative way or just straight-up gone (like Pistol Mastery, for instance).

In my previous post I give my honest opinion on why dual pistols aren’t doing so well, even more so now that we’ve lost our Ricochet builds. Check it out and let me know what you guys think. Feel free to add any suggestions of your own as well, as I’m still optimistically believing that Anet devs are in fact reading these forums, even if they aren’t actively responding to threads, so the more brainstorming the better!

stof.9341:

Master of Deception is still available : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Concealed_Defeat

Didn’t see this one but unfortunately the new build system makes taking this skill highly unlikely since it is on the same tier as Shadows Embrace condition removal.

Good news though Last Refuge is still in the game… seriously Last Refuge.

Seabreeze.8437:

Girbilcannon.8259:

Your mistake here is that you are not looking at why people are really complaining. It was NOT just a single trait that was removed, but rather 3 traits removed. Ricochet just so happened to be the one that enhanced the effects of every single target effect and made this build actually worth something. Other traits removed are Pistol Mastery and Opportunist. Maybe if you paid more attention to this post earlier on, you might understand that.

This does not just go for you, but for anybody else saying that everybody should stop complaining for its removal. I mean, I would constantly remove the ricochet trait on single target fights or if we had really strong AoE in the group, but that wasn’t always the case. It was a VERY necessary trait (along with the other 2 i mentioned) to make this weapon set the slightest bit tolerable.

No offense to Ghotistyx (at least I got your name right, though), but Girbilcannon makes a good point. This thread is focusing on the cornerstone of dual pistol builds, Ricochet, but in reality there were a handful of trait losses that contributed to it’s fall from… well, not from grace, since it was never really there to begin with… it’s fall from somewhere. I don’t like that the range boost was lumped into the mediocre Ankle Shots trait, and most of the others are either altered in a negative way or just straight-up gone (like Pistol Mastery, for instance).

In my previous post I give my honest opinion on why dual pistols aren’t doing so well, even more so now that we’ve lost our Ricochet builds. Check it out and let me know what you guys think. Feel free to add any suggestions of your own as well, as I’m still optimistically believing that Anet devs are in fact reading these forums, even if they aren’t actively responding to threads, so the more brainstorming the better!

Quoting both for convenience

The name of the thread talks about Ricochet. Most of the drama I’ve seen is directly attributed to ricochet, not just the other traits. Now yes, thief did outright lose traits that affected many builds, but so did other professions. Thieves aren’t alone in this. Pistol Mastery still exists, it just has its bonus tied to cripple now. Other professions have had similar changes. P/p is doing more damage than before the update (ignoring aoe potential from ricochet) so making the extra damage require cripple isn’t much of a burden. Ankle Shots provides a cripple, extra damage based on cripple, and the unlisted range increase. I’d hardly call that mediocre.

All I’m really asking for is to hold off on the drama, and at least wait to see what the elite specialization brings. Then, we can ask for things we’re missing.

Ghotistyx.6942:

The name of the thread talks about Ricochet. Most of the drama I’ve seen is directly attributed to ricochet, not just the other traits. Now yes, thief did outright lose traits that affected many builds, but so did other professions. Thieves aren’t alone in this. Pistol Mastery still exists, it just has its bonus tied to cripple now. Other professions have had similar changes. P/p is doing more damage than before the update (ignoring aoe potential from ricochet) so making the extra damage require cripple isn’t much of a burden. Ankle Shots provides a cripple, extra damage based on cripple, and the unlisted range increase. I’d hardly call that mediocre.

All I’m really asking for is to hold off on the drama, and at least wait to see what the elite specialization brings. Then, we can ask for things we’re missing.

Maybe I’m wrong, but I feel like a damage boost for 3 seconds on a single enemy with an internal 8 second cooldown is fairly mediocre, even if you spec for condition duration, whereas Pistol Mastery was a permanent 10% increase. The range increase is still cool.

For the thief elite spec, I’m definitely hoping for melee staff first (it sounds like it could be crazy fun). Can’t say for sure if that’s what we’re getting, but signs are definitely pointing to “yes.”

However, there is another reason why I don’t want the rifle spec to be the first one we get. It’s because I feel like the pistol changes are still too fresh for the devs to really adjust to player feedback. I want Anet to look closely at this set and take the time to read our feedback and suggestions (like the one I posted at the top of page 8, the #gunslingers4life one), explore ways to improve the loadout and perhaps allow for more than one cookie-cutter build. I don’t want a rifle to simply replace dual pistols. Rather, I want a rifle spec to support them, like a Gunslinger elite, as been suggested quite a number of times already.

I know Anet has a lot on their plate, but the dual pistol weapon set really needs to be addressed sometime, and I want them to have as much constructive feedback and suggestions as we can provide. I’m confident that they do in fact check these threads out from time to time.

Why don’t they just make ankle shots pierce? No more RNG bounce. Pistols gain some AoE/Multitarget utility based on good positioning.

Piercing bullets on pistol skills, or perhaps just Unload of needed, could be an interesting option. You’d be able to consistently hit your target in range which seems to be one of the more valid complaints about the removal of ricochet. Adding it to Ankle Shots might make it too “meaty”, so maybe just adding in that functionality to Unload would suffice.

Speaking of Ankle Shots, it’s a pretty hefty trait already. If we take a look at Dragonhunter, they have a trait that also gives them 10% on crippled foes. However, the difference is Ankle Shots gives a source of cripple in addition to the extra damage. With all the other sources of cripple available to a thief, you can easily reach 100%+ uptime. Alone the cripple might not be much, but combined it certainly has importance. It also naturally synergizes with p/d, which makes Ankle Shots a Pistol trait, and not only a p/p trait.

Well, they could take that damage off and roll it into baseline. It’s not like any of the pistol skills are particularly high damage except for shadow strike and unload. Remove the conditional damage and add some utility back, then rebalance the multipliers as needed.

This whole mess about P/P thieves is quite depressing for me.
I have quitted the game for a month because i feel like i am a beta tester on a product that changes for the sake of change, and not to become better. I feel i am entitled to have a good base game and not swipe content from it into an expantion. I am not liking any part of the changes, and i do not mean only thieves. I also think i have to say i do not play mesmers.

I have still a little hope, that the elite spec is for rifle and could have some traits that affect pistols. The whole mess about pistols is depressing.

Tyr.6097:

I have still a little hope, that the elite spec is for rifle and could have some traits that affect pistols. The whole mess about pistols is depressing.

I think it’d be weird having to buy HoT and use an elite spec to improve core weapon. My bet is that none of the elite spec traits will affect pistols no matter what.

It might have synergy with pistol sure, but traits directly affecting it? Unlikely.

stof.9341:

I think it’d be weird having to buy HoT and use an elite spec to improve core weapon. My bet is that none of the elite spec traits will affect pistols no matter what.

It might have synergy with pistol sure, but traits directly affecting it? Unlikely.

It will end up that you’ll better buy HoT. No company cares about people who want to stay behind for the sake of staying behind.

I just don’t understand why we can’t get a response from Anet that tells us, yes we’re working on it or no we’re not, live with it. As extensive as this post is they should see that a lot of people want answers.

Becka Williams.4978:

In Tyria, bouncy axes and arrows are okay, but bouncy bullets are just dumb.

Bouncing bullets have too much randomness to them. Who knows where they will bounce to and if they even will bounce. (Coming from the creators of black lion chests, precursor, and other RNG fun…)

Zero Day.2594:

Becka Williams.4978:

In Tyria, bouncy axes and arrows are okay, but bouncy bullets are just dumb.

Bouncing bullets have too much randomness to them. Who knows where they will bounce to and if they even will bounce. (Coming from the creators of black lion chests, precursor, and other RNG fun…)

Careful now, you’ve pointed out a flaw in logic. We can’t have people using their brains now, they might just think removing Ricochet was a mistake.

Tugolith.3729:

I just don’t understand why we can’t get a response from Anet that tells us, yes we’re working on it or no we’re not, live with it. As extensive as this post is they should see that a lot of people want answers.

If you think the community has bad reactions when Anet says nothing on a topic, wait until you see their reactions when Anet makes a “promise” and then decides to change course because it found a better solution. The uproar has been (and would be) deafening.

Staying silent is honestly their best course of action while things are being discussed. It’s not super often they can actually ask our opinions for various reasons. That’s why as a community our best course of action, now that we’ve obviously started our opinion on ricochet and the state we individually believe p/p is in, is to wait. Then once they talk to us again about thief (like during the elite specialization preview), if we aren’t satisfied we can let them know again.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Tugolith.3729:

I just don’t understand why we can’t get a response from Anet that tells us, yes we’re working on it or no we’re not, live with it. As extensive as this post is they should see that a lot of people want answers.

If you think the community has bad reactions when Anet says nothing on a topic, wait until you see their reactions when Anet makes a “promise” and then decides to change course because it found a better solution. The uproar has been (and would be) deafening.

Staying silent is honestly their best course of action while things are being discussed. It’s not super often they can actually ask our opinions for various reasons. That’s why as a community our best course of action, now that we’ve obviously started our opinion on ricochet and the state we individually believe p/p is in, is to wait. Then once they talk to us again about thief (like during the elite specialization preview), if we aren’t satisfied we can let them know again.

None of the people on here view this thread as a “bad reaction”. Just you.

We view this thread as simply a reaction to aNet’s bad decision. You are the only person here who keeps telling us we are wrong to want it back and wrong to voice it.

You need to stop trying to force your opinion on this thread. It is 8 pages, 370 replies, 14k views of people wanting Ricochet back. That’s what this thread is about. If you want changes to p/p, stop going off topic and start your own thread. Talk about how smart aNet is, defend their decisions and how people just need to stop talking and wait to see what they do. See how many people agree with you then.

Hey, those 8 pages, 370 replies, and 14k views include my presence. Don’t lump me in with all of the filthy doom and gloom masses. Plus, there are plenty of people who want ricochet back that also don’t throw tantrums, and I’d venture to guess they don’t want to be associated with y’all either.

But I’m glad you can speak for here, telling them what they believe. Also, I’m glad you feel the need to tell me what i believe, as of you know my thoughts better. You’ve obviously failed to actually read and comprehend any of my posts, otherwise you’d have a very different conclusion than the one you’re drawing. It’s probably not going to bring ricochet back any faster.

But hey, you know the best way to stick it to Anet and voice your displeasure? If you dislike Anet so much, keep playing their game. That’ll really show them. I bet they’ll give you two whole ricochets then.

You don’t read anyone’s posts and actually try to understand them, do you?

Ghotistyx.6942:

Hey, those 8 pages, 370 replies, and 14k views include my presence. Don’t lump me in with all of the filthy doom and gloom masses. Plus, there are plenty of people who want ricochet back that also don’t throw tantrums, and I’d venture to guess they don’t want to be associated with y’all either.

That’s my point. YOU are the ONLY one on here saying people are “throwing tantrums” and we are “filthy doom and gloom masses”. The whole rest of the thread is people just saying that they want Ricochet back. Nobody is throwing a tantrum. If someone isn’t having fun playing thief, or the entire game anymore, because Ricochet has been removed, they have every right to voice it. My question is: What right do you have to call us names and put us down because you aren’t as upset over it?

Ghotistyx.6942:

But I’m glad you can speak for here, telling them what they believe. Also, I’m glad you feel the need to tell me what i believe, as of you know my thoughts better. You’ve obviously failed to actually read and comprehend any of my posts, otherwise you’d have a very different conclusion than the one you’re drawing. It’s probably not going to bring ricochet back any faster.

You are seriously in your own little delusional world. I’m not telling anyone what they believe. I’m just repeating 8 pages, 370 replies, and 14k views of people saying they want it back. And as for what you believe? Here’s you in a nutshell: You put everyone down who voices their discontent. When someone calls you out on it, you say ‘you are a voice of reason and that you’re upset Ricochet is gone too and we don’t understand your posts’. Then you go right back to putting anyone down who voices discontent with aNet’s decision or disagrees with you. Sorry but we understand your posts perfectly clear.

Ghotistyx.6942:

But hey, you know the best way to stick it to Anet and voice your displeasure? If you dislike Anet so much, keep playing their game. That’ll really show them. I bet they’ll give you two whole ricochets then.

Um, you do realize playing the game is free? As long as people are refusing to spend money on gems that actually is sticking it to them.

Bottom line: you are the only person on this thread who puts everyone down for being upset about the loss of Ricochet. You post about it non-stop while telling everyone else they need to stop posting and wait. You go off-topic. Please stop crapping all over this thread and leave.

I’ve read every post in this thread since it was created. I only respond to posts that either a) actually have good ideas or topics of discussion, or b) excessively complain, sometimes to the point of scaring away other posters that might have a slightly differing opinion.

I can actually accept that other people have differing opinions and are allowed to voice them. There are so many more people that have posted than I have replied to, so its useless hyperbole to think I’m out to contradict everyone. Likewise, not everyone here is actually against my opinions, just a few particularly vocal ones trying to force an issue through a mob mentality. There are plenty of people that I’ve been able to have a reasonable discussion with because they also understand the concept of knowing there are multiple points of view.

As far as names go, I’m just returning to sender. I have as much of a right as anyone else to sling names or tell people to leave the forum, because we’re all equal here. Posters have every right they may have to complain about leaving the game because ricochet is gone. I, or anyone else, has the same amount of rights to call them out for being maybe just a little melodramatic. It’s not like I’m forcing them to continue playing the game.

But it’s interesting. How threatening can I be that a few people have felt the need to start slinging names, and trying to tell me I should leave? Are my opinions really that scary that you have no other way to deal with me than to try and make me disappear? If anything it’ll make me more inclined to stay, to ensure that differing opinions can continue to exist in this important thread on the discussion of Ricochet. Everything I’ve posted before has dealt directly with Ricochet, this thread itself, or p/p in regards to ricochet. But now it’s become a bit more personal than before, so I’m going to defend myself. If anyone else wants to actually discussion aspects of ricochet and the future of p/p, I’ll be here, waiting to express my opinion as I see fit.

Ghotistyx.6942:

If anyone else wants to actually discussion aspects of ricochet and the future of p/p, I’ll be here, waiting to express my opinion as I see fit.

(raises hand)

I still want to discuss Ricochet and the future of dual pistols.

I’d also like to hear your opinion on my post at the top of this page (the #gunslingers4life one). I think it got kinda buried in the sudden flame war.

Seabreeze.8437:

Ghotistyx.6942:

If anyone else wants to actually discussion aspects of ricochet and the future of p/p, I’ll be here, waiting to express my opinion as I see fit.

(raises hand)

I still want to discuss Ricochet and the future of dual pistols.

I’d also like to hear your opinion on my post at the top of this page (the #gunslingers4life one). I think it got kinda buried in the sudden flame war.

Oh, I’m always wanting to discuss the Pistols. The ideas thrown about in regards to replacing “bounce” with “pierce” could work, imho. (Although, as I’ve said before … you’d think the game’s “tricky” fighter could get away with bouncing bullets off of target “A” to hit “B” …)

Also, as far as making P/P it’s own set, I want to say Sir Vincent’s been on that crusade for a while, for both P/P and D/D. I can also get behind that idea, since all ANet’d have to do then would be to balance the two sets separately of other Thief weaponry.

Advent.6193:

Seabreeze.8437:

Ghotistyx.6942:

If anyone else wants to actually discussion aspects of ricochet and the future of p/p, I’ll be here, waiting to express my opinion as I see fit.

(raises hand)

I still want to discuss Ricochet and the future of dual pistols.

I’d also like to hear your opinion on my post at the top of this page (the #gunslingers4life one). I think it got kinda buried in the sudden flame war.

Oh, I’m always wanting to discuss the Pistols. The ideas thrown about in regards to replacing “bounce” with “pierce” could work, imho. (Although, as I’ve said before … you’d think the game’s “tricky” fighter could get away with bouncing bullets off of target “A” to hit “B” …)

Also, as far as making P/P it’s own set, I want to say Sir Vincent’s been on that crusade for a while, for both P/P and D/D. I can also get behind that idea, since all ANet’d have to do then would be to balance the two sets separately of other Thief weaponry.

Right on, thanks!

I definitely agree on your opinion of bounce vs pierce. Pierce would be an okay alternative, but speaking from an aesthetic point of view, I personally think bounce fits much better as thieves are—just like you said—the tricky class, and the idea of a trick-shooter is way past cool. It was a lot of fun sending bullets bouncing around a mob in PvE, combined with the Superior Sigil of Fire where an extra fiery explosion would pop out of nowhere! I felt like I was contributing so much more then compared to now. Since it’s a single-target weapon, I’ve only got my sigil to act as my AoE burst (at least for that weapon set, my alt/melee is S/P, which works great in PvE).

Also, I haven’t seen Sir Vincent since, like, the first page, lol. If he’s got some ideas for making a unique skill set for dual pistols, I’d be interested to read about them. As I mentioned before, I think making unique skill sets apply only to elite specs would be the best way to go about it. It’d make taking an elite even more significant, offering a totally different way to play an already existing weapon loadout.

The only problem then, is that you effectively paywall the hell out of the improvements to the weaponset. And, honestly, at ~$50 for HoT, and an unknown amount of non-Specialization content … HoT’s already looking -arguably- a tad bit pricey.
I’d rather see improvements on current weapons/skills exist on their own, and let the HoT stuff be its own -good, but not necessary- thing

Advent.6193:

The only problem then, is that you effectively paywall the hell out of the improvements to the weaponset. And, honestly, at ~$50 for HoT, and an unknown amount of non-Specialization content … HoT’s already looking -arguably- a tad bit pricey.
I’d rather see improvements on current weapons/skills exist on their own, and let the HoT stuff be its own -good, but not necessary- thing

That’s a valid point, but I can’t really see Anet overhauling an entire skill bar for a weapon set unless they integrate it into an elite spec. I mean, I’m not against simply redoing the whole thing as baseline, but the people that actually like the current weapon skills may object to being forced to use a new skill set by picking up dual pistols. That’s why I think making it part of an elite spec is the best way to do it, that way the current skills would still be available for those that prefer it.

Hmm. Not a fan of improving P/P solely through the elite spec. Not least because activating an elite spec means trading out one of your 3 current specs. (correct me if i’m wrong, but i think that’s how it works.) Proper P/P shouldn’t be chained to a spec.

After playing some more with P/P in Silverwastes, I think the real issues with P/P tend to crop up in WvW. PvE with P/P is relatively ok, but the lack of init is aggravating. Also, overall DPS if you’re NOT spamming Unload is lackluster at best. I don’t really play other classes, so I can’t do a proper comparison, but watching others in PvE, it sure does seem like they put out more damage on average.

In regards to piercing and bouncing. I think mechanically bouncing is fine. I think the whole reason ricochet was removed in the first place was because the trait as a while got out of hand. I think Anet was worried about what to do with it that they elected to just remove it for the time being too give themselves time to think. This time to think also allows them to see how we react to the changes, and by react i mean what new builds we develop. Then they can try to match what their idea of pistol is with what players think pistol is. This might be where we see some base changes to pistol and p/p as a whole. Word on the street is that some weapons will get functionality changes because of HoT. What’s nice about the idea of piercing is that its aoe isn’t “circular” aoe, like what shortbow offers. I think the biggest complaint people might have about current p/p is that their damage often doesn’t get too the target. This is vital because of the nature of p/p being somewhat lacking in defense. Piercing would at least ensure you can burst your target down.

I’m not sure if you could build an entire specialization around changing p/p, but I could also see a rifle specialization having a grandmaster trait allowing bullets to pierce or bounce. I think thief is getting staff first, but when they do get Rifle, I could see it as a condition combination of Engi Rifle and Warrior Longbow (ranged cc and burning). Piercing or bouncing would allow for some of that aoe to happen.

If anyone was worried about the silence on ricochet, this quote could provide an explanation. It might not relate to ricochet specifically, but just because they’re silent doesn’t mean they haven’t heard.

Robert Gee.9246:

Regarding general silence, it’s mostly due to how busy everything is at the moment, but also due to how a company as large as ArenaNet works. I’ll see if I can explain a few things to put the situation into context.

Right now I’m waiting to get feedback from the upcoming beta weekend on Chronomancer and Reaper, but I haven’t worked on either of them specifically for several weeks. Many of the changes you’ve seen from Gamescom were locked down weeks ago in order to assure the stability of the floor demo and the upcoming beta weekend. With a game as big as Guild Wars 2 it takes a long time (and a lot of QA effort) to make sure big events like Gamescom go smoothly. My work over the last few weeks hasn’t been for Necromancer or Mesmer and is actually been for the Warrior elite specialization (which I probably can’t say anything else about). I’m also fixing bugs on live for ALL professions this week and next which has kept me pretty busy.

Now this isn’t to say that I’m not paying attention to what’s being said or what’s been said in the past. I take notes on threads I think are relevant for when I have time to work on them. I have notes on things to improve with both axe and scepter as well as a note about skills that we could add projectile blocking to (incidentally RS 2 blocks projectiles because of a suggestion I read here). These are changes I’d like to get to and see happen, but right now iteration on Reaper and Chronomancer are probably going to take priority over that once the beta finishes.

I hope that clears up a few things. I’m not really as talkative as Roy or Karl, but I’ll see if I can show up now and then to answer the occasional polite question.

These companies are allways like this.
Never announcing their intentions correctly, and making up excuses to delay time until the real thing ships. Not the first, not the last.
This topic is one of the most viewed on the forum. Dont tell me nobody with a red tag saw this, and didn’t ask a manager in his spare 2 months (this is a hot subject), and write down actual reasons and insight.
That is not a good awnser.
Keep this thread alive.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Robert Gee.9246:

I’m not really as talkative as Roy or Karl, but I’ll see if I can show up now and then to answer the occasional polite question.

Politeness? Who has time for politeness?

I’m totally kidding, of course. As I’ve said before, I know Anet is always a bit hesitant to post on the forums, especially when the risk of being trampled by frustrated players is particularly great. I’m not demanding that Anet makes a response here. Rather, I simply hope that they are indeed checking out threads like this and gauging player feedback, which I’m fairly confident they’re doing just that. Y’know there’s good suggestions, not-so-good suggestions, and everything in between around these forums. Whatever gets the pot stirring and the ideas brewing is okay by me!

Honestly anet doesn’t give a crap about third anymore… Its been needed to he’ll and completely non-viable. Switching to warrior since it’s anet’s baby… never gonna get nerfed and will always be the strongest class… so sad that I can’t play the sneaky stabby class anymore that I’ve loved throughout every game.

One trip to the warrior forums will shatter those dreams. They’re about as melodramatic as some of the people here.

I am not a warrior fan, but those threads have a lot of truth to them too.
They made a lot of non meta builds more unviable while the meta ones are still strong.
Just like thief, ranger, necro. As i said, i feel like a beta tester, only it is live. Did they seriously had to make it 3 talents per mastery level? I will give the exp. the nickname Heart of Pandaria if this will be the base game.

This beta test has got me thinking.

Since Heart of Thorns is introducing a new mechanic where projectiles bounce to multiple targets behind your primary target, I’m wondering if Ricochet could be worked to function in this way as well. After playing around with Dragonhunter, I feel like this could translate really nicely into a new form of Ricochet.

One could hope, Seabreeze. Hell, give us that as a freakin skillshot.
Also, if SB weren’t the ranged “damage” condi weapon, I’d be all over P/P with some kind of condition “specialty” ammunition. (You can kinda do that already with Venoms … but with P/P’s lack of mobility or inbuilt stealth, you’re giving up a good chunk of defense for that trick.)
Hell, which Dev do we need to bribe for mercury-capped bullets around here?

We, thief community would like to have ricochet back. Are you guys going to do anything about it?

I swear, with as popular as this thread is (in both views and comments), Anet better have somebody reading this and taking it to heart. They brought the hurt to the thief profession in more ways than just this one, and completely botched the P/P build. In most cases, that would be fine, but going more than a month without a fix or any sort of hint as to what we are getting as an elite spec is pretty ridiculous. I have a feeling it will be awesome, but there are so many people losing hope at this point. It saddens me to say, but at least blizzard responds when something like this happens.

The reason for so many views with no official response is because like many of us have pointed out, there are severe flaws in the Dev teams logic and thinking. Anet’s left hand doesn’t know what the right is doing.

So instead of contradicting themselves further in kitten, the Justin Bieber-hairdo-sporting-emo-adults will continue to do what they do, further ruining a once great game with their misguided sense of fun and lack of logic.

I’m sure an over zealous mod will come by and ban me a 6th time for saying the truth.
Or a contradictory white knight will come by and try to tell me how wrong my opinion is because… their “feels”. Oh well. Either way it’s bound to be more fun than the heap of a grindy, unbalanced mess GW2 has become. I’ve quit going on a month now with 0 regrets. Wish I would have done it 1.5 years sooner with the rest of my guild/friends list!

The hastened replinishment trait loss also hurt from the perspective of INI. Upper hand just does not make up for it as a successful evade on a p/p build will not generate as much INI.

Quickpockets is predicated on weapon swap every 10 seconds.

There are roundabout ways of addressing p/p issues that I have suggested that could help here including.

Changing damage of 10 percent on ankle shots from being based on opponenet being crippled to 5 percent per wielded pistol.

Changing sundering strikes to two stacks vuln per proc rather than 1.

Increasing durations on body shot to both vuln and Immob to make it more usable.

Making GI return one INI each time one of the listed conditions cleansed.

Using maugetarrs suggestion of changing quickpockets to returning one ini on weapon swap while lowering swap time of weapons to 5 seconds.

Add a pierce component to the set via one of the traits.

Add one second to the cripple duration off ankle shot (with same cooldown) while divorcing the extra damage from being crippled via 5 percent per wielded pistol suggestion above.

The suggestion that seems to me the simplest while staying reasonable would be to make the 1050 range baseline, then associating the bouncing bullets to the ankle shot trait.

That way we would still have to make a choice on how to deal the damage : ferocity, vulnerability OR aoe.

Tabootrinket.2631:

The suggestion that seems to me the simplest while staying reasonable would be to make the 1050 range baseline, then associating the bouncing bullets to the ankle shot trait.

That way we would still have to make a choice on how to deal the damage : ferocity, vulnerability OR aoe.

That actually makes sense. In fact it makes too much sense to the point where it would never happen lol. Mixing in ricochet with ankle shots would certainly give us an edge in PvE survivability, but would probably be too OP in PvP due to the AoE cripples and 10% damage increase to each of those cripple targets.

I guess it could work if the ankle shots effect only applied to the first target, but then it wouldn’t make sense of how the bounce would bounce and bounce again. I don’t know, nobody quote me or correct me because I know i’m thinking way too much into it already without typing lol.

Girbilcannon.8259:

Tabootrinket.2631:

The suggestion that seems to me the simplest while staying reasonable would be to make the 1050 range baseline, then associating the bouncing bullets to the ankle shot trait.

That way we would still have to make a choice on how to deal the damage : ferocity, vulnerability OR aoe.

That actually makes sense. In fact it makes too much sense to the point where it would never happen lol. Mixing in ricochet with ankle shots would certainly give us an edge in PvE survivability, but would probably be too OP in PvP due to the AoE cripples and 10% damage increase to each of those cripple targets.

I guess it could work if the ankle shots effect only applied to the first target, but then it wouldn’t make sense of how the bounce would bounce and bounce again. I don’t know, nobody quote me or correct me because I know i’m thinking way too much into it already without typing lol.

Oh right I forgot about the damage bonus against the crippled ones. I personally wouldn’t mind losing the damage bonus, making this branch only CC oriented.

I thought I was over this until I just noticed what the icon for the Invigorating Precision trait is. The sadness is 100% back.

Caesteris.7529:

I thought I was over this until I just noticed what the icon for the Invigorating Precision trait is. The sadness is 100% back.

Dude… I hadn’t even noticed that one. That’s rough.

Even if we had the 10% bonus on the extra hits, it would still would not be OP damage.
Previously it had the pistol mastery as well, and dont forget it was still a 50% chanceit ricochated. And this is NOT pistol mastery. It only applies cripple every 8 secs for 3 secs,
that means we are allready nerfed enough as is.