Rifle Thief: how does it make you feel?

Rifle Thief: how does it make you feel?

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Posted by: coro.3176

coro.3176

It’s true. We don’t know much. However, I think we can assume the range is at least 1200. If it does nothing else other than have a generic damaging autoattack and no other skills, it will already be a problem when combined with the rest of thief’s kit.

Imagine glass pew pew rangers but you can’t chase them down because they have stealth and 3x as much mobility.

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Posted by: saerni.2584

saerni.2584

I feel I’m going to have fun with this weapon. Visually and gameplay wise.

Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
Thief (Daredevil)
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Posted by: SpellOfIniquity.1780

SpellOfIniquity.1780

It’s true. We don’t know much. However, I think we can assume the range is at least 1200. If it does nothing else other than have a generic damaging autoattack and no other skills, it will already be a problem when combined with the rest of thief’s kit.

Imagine glass pew pew rangers but you can’t chase them down because they have stealth and 3x as much mobility.

I was honestly imagining Gunflame Warrior but with Thief’s mobility + stealth.

I don’t fear what a rifle Thief might be because I have faith in Anet that they won’t make it like that. But if that were what it wound up being… Well I would say that any complaints made about it would be entirely relevant.

I agree completely with TheDarkSoul, though. People are getting ahead of themselves complaining that it needs nerfs before they even know what it’s going to be like. It’s reasonable to be concerned about imbalances but idiotic to act like it’s already killing you.

Necromancer, Ranger, Warrior, Engineer
Champion: Phantom, Hunter, Legionnaire, Genius
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Posted by: TheDarkSoul.1938

TheDarkSoul.1938

I give up.

Coro, just no. Please, considering that all we know as of right now is that its a rifle and it MIGHT have one dodge, explain to me how just having an AUTO ATTACK is a problem at 1200 range? Like are you for real?

Let’s assume for a second that the one dodge thing is true (that’s not unreasonable considering the accuracy of leaks recently). Where is the mobility you speak of coming from? It won’t have Dash because it don’t be using Daredevil, so it’ll have ONE, regular, bog standard Dodge. No kiting with that. It’d have Shadowstep…. That’s on a long cd. What else? Where else is the mobility coming from besides Steal (if that’s even still a feature of the spec, considering that a spec revolving around long range wouldnt particularly want to port straight up to you). Acro won’t be taken (it never is anyway really) because it won’t be able to enhance our ONE evade enough to warrant taking it. So again, where is this mobility you speak of?

Then there’s the stealth. Shadow Refuge and Blinding Powder. Both of them got powercrept into insignificance A LONG time ago. If you can’t kill a Thief camping in Shadow Refuge BH bombing the Refuge, or you can’t defend against 3 seconds of stealth, you’re bad. Like, I’m sorry but its true. Ranger has mobility + stealth with Smokescale + Longbow + Staff and nobody at all is saying that 1500 range auto is OP on that, lol.

So please, explain how you get to a build that has 3x as much mobility/kiting as Ranger with Staff + Longbow or Sword/x, ALSO has a lot of stealth access, can evade all day, has a lot of sustain AND can 100-0 someone from 1200 range like the people here are worried about. Hell, I’d play that build if you can show it to me. Sounds kittening easy.

I mean you could turn around and say that “oh you could get the mobility from SB offhand”. That’s true. Except that means no D/P which means very little stealth access, plus if you were to constantly swap go SB mid-fight JUST to use 5 to kite, then you’re locking yourself out of any damage from Rifle for 9 seconds. Or you can go D/p which means you lose your kiting potential and the only way you’re getting stealth is by spamming 5-2 which means you have no initative to do damage with Rifle from 1200 range, lol.

Like…. I don’t even know why I’m having to explain this.

Thief auto attack from range + 3 utility skills is a problem for you? I can’t even Imagine how you came to that conclusion.

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Posted by: Svarty.8019

Svarty.8019

Rifle Thief: how does it make you feel?

Bored. I see two scenarios;

  1. It’s even more OP than regular thief or,
  2. nobody will play it

I’m looking forward to being one-shotted by invisible guys. Fun2017.

Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.

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Posted by: Pinko.2076

Pinko.2076

it’s really pointless to hypothesize without any skills, but consider why it will PROBABLY suck:
D/P is the lifeblood of thief. Running non-DP of any for is sort of cheesy or considered trollish, because it’s so kittening impractical to not run D/P.

The weapons that even get swapped to need to have evade, movement, or their own form of escape to warrant even occasional use (SB, S/D, P/D, Staff). Thief is a really strong class, but it’s also completely dependent on D/P to function in WvW, and the Rifle needs a LOT going for it to be good.

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Posted by: Lalainnia.3598

Lalainnia.3598

Hopefully whatever strong rifle moves there are have some sort of self reveal on it maybe so its not silly with stealth.

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Posted by: Draeyon.4392

Draeyon.4392

Ye, hoping if they get a high damage killshot move it reveals them as they cast it.

Though, gotta say I would take up axe off hand on my power ranger again just to try to reflect 1 shot a rifle thief.

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Posted by: Aenaos.8160

Aenaos.8160

Hey let’s give the class with the most mobility a 1200 range weapon so they can even troll more, now from a distance.

Clearly,40 dodges/min and stealth is not enough.
Now they will troll you from afar.
Catch them if you can.(You can’t)
Btw this is the first spec I’ll unlock.

-Win a pip,lose a pip,win a pip,lose a pip,lose a pip,
lose a pip,win 2 pips,lose a pip,lose a pip…………..-
-Go go Espartz.-

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Posted by: Aenaos.8160

Aenaos.8160

Hopefully whatever strong rifle moves there are have some sort of self reveal on it maybe so its not silly with stealth.

Hmm,you mean like GS Mesmer silly?
No way.Absolutely no way…..

-Win a pip,lose a pip,win a pip,lose a pip,lose a pip,
lose a pip,win 2 pips,lose a pip,lose a pip…………..-
-Go go Espartz.-

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Posted by: Aenaos.8160

Aenaos.8160

it’s really pointless to hypothesize without any skills, but consider why it will PROBABLY suck:
D/P is the lifeblood of thief. Running non-DP of any for is sort of cheesy or considered trollish, because it’s so kittening impractical to not run D/P.

The weapons that even get swapped to need to have evade, movement, or their own form of escape to warrant even occasional use (SB, S/D, P/D, Staff). Thief is a really strong class, but it’s also completely dependent on D/P to function in WvW, and the Rifle needs a LOT going for it to be good.

Thief uses 2 separate weapon sets.
Rifle-D/P.
Easy.

-Win a pip,lose a pip,win a pip,lose a pip,lose a pip,
lose a pip,win 2 pips,lose a pip,lose a pip…………..-
-Go go Espartz.-

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Posted by: choovanski.5462

choovanski.5462

Rifle Thief: how does it make you feel?

Bored. I see two scenarios;

  1. It’s even more OP than regular thief or,
  2. nobody will play it

I’m looking forward to being one-shotted by invisible guys. Fun2017.

I feel u there man, except I’m going to be running Defense/Discipline/SpellBreaker so my endure pain at 50% will keep me safe. so no 1 kitten death for me :-D

yeah, I’m thinking inhumanely OP, or terrible at this point. honestly I think condi would be preferable to a 1 shot stealth insta gib. like, it’s much more fightable.

. Engi & Warr . Beta > 2017 Death of PvP
currently a Boyfriend main :P
Waiting To ReRoll Mystic & Forget About Tyria

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Posted by: beatthedown.2651

beatthedown.2651

I keep forgetting that 80 % of the players in this thread are solo roamers playing zerk ele while only using fire attunement. Silly me.

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Posted by: Entenkommando.5208

Entenkommando.5208

Basically a Warrior gun flame on auto attack, 1.5k range and the runaway skills of a thief.

R.I.P Kodasch Allianz [KoA]

All we wanted was a GvG.

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Posted by: TheDarkSoul.1938

TheDarkSoul.1938

Hopefully whatever strong rifle moves there are have some sort of self reveal on it maybe so its not silly with stealth.

Hmm,you mean like GS Mesmer silly?
No way.Absolutely no way…..

rubs eyes did you just try to suggest that GS Mesmer is silly? Lol.

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Posted by: TheDarkSoul.1938

TheDarkSoul.1938

I keep forgetting that 80 % of the players in this thread are solo roamers playing zerk ele while only using fire attunement. Silly me.

I know right. Just think how OP Zerk Ele will be with the new elite spec if they also get to use UTILITY SKILLS?! gasp

I mean even if they just got AA, that’d be a massive issue. /s

I can’t believe I’m actually repeating what other people in this post are saying. Apparently Thief can use all 5 core traitlines + Deadeye all in one build and be an unkillable, unseeable and uncatchable one shot killing machine with auto attacks. Yeah. Sounds legit.

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Posted by: Baldrick.8967

Baldrick.8967

Thiefs are already a pain in the kitten adding a 1200 range weapon for them isn’t going to end well in wvw, no matter what it’s spec is (unless it’s pure healing others).

We don’t know what it will actually be yet, but given the ‘balance team’s previous efforts, we’re not confident it will be anything other than brokenly OP in wvw until they nerf it in 12 months time.

I can hardly wait for the usual 3 thief one mes or engi team to one shot people from stealth at range…

WvW player. Doing another world completion for my next Legendary. Hater of mini-games.

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Posted by: TheDarkSoul.1938

TheDarkSoul.1938

I’m not particularly confident either, I just disagree that these sorta threads are popping up ALREADY before we know how the spec plays, what it does and how strong it is. The same concern for balance counts for literally all the other professions and yet I’m not seeing similair amounts of crying. Why? Because people like jumping on the Hate Thief bandwagon and it’s getting seriously, SERIOUSLY old at this point.

What bores me even more is people that come on these kinds of posts pretending they know what a Thief does whilst acting as if Thief can magically use 6 traitlines all in one build to get superior EVERYTHING, which is hilarious.

I think Druids are a pain, am I complaining about them? Nope. I think DH is a pain (duh I’m a Thief) am I complaining about how OP they MIGHT be? No, lol. Because I know nothing about any of the elite specs, and neither do you. Just because something is a pain doesn’t mean it’s okay for me to go around bashing it and everyone that’s excited about it.

I can’t wait to see what the Rifle Spec will be, just in case it’s nothing like what people here are saying it will be like, and yet STILL complain about it just because it’s a Thief with a Rifle. Which is basically what this whole post is anyway.

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Posted by: cobbah.3102

cobbah.3102

Thief with Rifle hmmm nah I got a better idea just delete the annoying lil kitten thieves altogether ,and then we can move on with the game . And then developers can actually do something more creative like fix the WvW mess we have with its cancer we do not need more cancer.. are these developers for real or are they on a different planet to the rest of us .

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Posted by: Entenkommando.5208

Entenkommando.5208

I’m not particularly confident either, I just disagree that these sorta threads are popping up ALREADY before we know how the spec plays, what it does and how strong it is. The same concern for balance counts for literally all the other professions and yet I’m not seeing similair amounts of crying. Why? Because people like jumping on the Hate Thief bandwagon and it’s getting seriously, SERIOUSLY old at this point.

What bores me even more is people that come on these kinds of posts pretending they know what a Thief does whilst acting as if Thief can magically use 6 traitlines all in one build to get superior EVERYTHING, which is hilarious.

I think Druids are a pain, am I complaining about them? Nope. I think DH is a pain (duh I’m a Thief) am I complaining about how OP they MIGHT be? No, lol. Because I know nothing about any of the elite specs, and neither do you. Just because something is a pain doesn’t mean it’s okay for me to go around bashing it and everyone that’s excited about it.

I can’t wait to see what the Rifle Spec will be, just in case it’s nothing like what people here are saying it will be like, and yet STILL complain about it just because it’s a Thief with a Rifle. Which is basically what this whole post is anyway.

You can already approximate rather well what the new elite spec will be so people’s concerns aren’t exactly unfounded,especially looking at how daredevil turned out already.
Let’s look at what he will get: a Rifle. What do you think this will be? A healer? A ranged condi Rifle? Chances are insanely high it’s going to be a pure damage weapon once again. And they’ll have at least 1.2k range on it as we know from leaks up to this point.

So now lets think about what else thief has: shortbow to run away: check. Shadowsteps for instant stunbreak teleport: check. Signet for extra dodges: check.

All of that is included in core thief already so it’s rather easy to combine 1+1 and assume that the play will be to attack with their high damage Rifle from range, kiting any meele to death, while instantly teleporting away as soon as they get scratched,because this is what thieves are.

R.I.P Kodasch Allianz [KoA]

All we wanted was a GvG.

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Posted by: Grand Avatar of Destruction.2537

Grand Avatar of Destruction.2537

Getting nuked for 10k as soon as you step out of your spawn point by a rifle thief standing on top of SM is why I will be surprised if the stealth attack for rifle is the big power hitter on the weapon. I’m curious to see what direction it will be taken in.

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Posted by: Sazukikrah.5036

Sazukikrah.5036

its gonna be more of a kite fest than Dash thief is already. Acro+Range with rifle. How anyone gonna be able to do anything against that? and its gonna be worse if thief is getting 1500 range skills like Ranger as base attack.

Hadi the Edgemaster – Pro level Warrior (Youtube Hadi the Edgemaster)
Black Gate Tier 1 Roamer
Harbinger " I will make you (QQ)"

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Posted by: Spartacus.3192

Spartacus.3192

The great thing about the interweb is that all these posts will be here for review once the the expansion is released and we will see who was over reacting or who was naive.

However, i work with probability on a daily basis at work and looking at ANETs recorded track record and the pure needs of business where they want to make sales, i would be extremely shocked if rifle on thief is not initially over powered enough for it to create a lot of QQ threads.

And yes im willing to have this saved on the interweb for future review.

Your typical average gamer -
“Buff my main class, nerf everything else. "

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

No more endless dodging thfs for better dmg and more viability in zergs i will take it and i hate thfs!

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: Celsith.2753

Celsith.2753

I don’t think that 1200 range alone is what people fear. Its 1200 range with massive damage, mobility and stealth that make people anticipate the worst. It would be ridiculous to have all this.

Like Druid?

Predatory Instinct [HUNT]
Thundercat Snarf – Thief

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Posted by: Sirbeaumerdier.3740

Sirbeaumerdier.3740

I don’t think that 1200 range alone is what people fear. Its 1200 range with massive damage, mobility and stealth that make people anticipate the worst. It would be ridiculous to have all this.

Like Druid?

Yes, but to the next level. Anything with stealth and insane mobility is going to be supremely annoying in WvW. but Druid can’t reasonably 100-0 you in one shot from stealth 1200 away.

Give good stealth to a gunflame zerker and it would be closer to what people are afraid of.

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Posted by: Pinko.2076

Pinko.2076

it’s really pointless to hypothesize without any skills, but consider why it will PROBABLY suck:
D/P is the lifeblood of thief. Running non-DP of any for is sort of cheesy or considered trollish, because it’s so kittening impractical to not run D/P.

The weapons that even get swapped to need to have evade, movement, or their own form of escape to warrant even occasional use (SB, S/D, P/D, Staff). Thief is a really strong class, but it’s also completely dependent on D/P to function in WvW, and the Rifle needs a LOT going for it to be good.

Thief uses 2 separate weapon sets.
Rifle-D/P.
Easy.

You must play a slow motion version of WvW where a thief can sit in a weapon set for 10 seconds that doesn’t have its own movement, evade, or escape.

The threshold rifle needs to hit to even be swappable without getting destroyed is pretty high, and it’s all survivability based instead of damage.

If people want a ranged, very high damage, very dangerous build P/P already exists. It’s good until you face people with fast reactions that just punish you for running a glass cannon set.

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Posted by: choovanski.5462

choovanski.5462

it’s really pointless to hypothesize without any skills, but consider why it will PROBABLY suck:
D/P is the lifeblood of thief. Running non-DP of any for is sort of cheesy or considered trollish, because it’s so kittening impractical to not run D/P.

The weapons that even get swapped to need to have evade, movement, or their own form of escape to warrant even occasional use (SB, S/D, P/D, Staff). Thief is a really strong class, but it’s also completely dependent on D/P to function in WvW, and the Rifle needs a LOT going for it to be good.

Thief uses 2 separate weapon sets.
Rifle-D/P.
Easy.

You must play a slow motion version of WvW where a thief can sit in a weapon set for 10 seconds that doesn’t have its own movement, evade, or escape.

The threshold rifle needs to hit to even be swappable without getting destroyed is pretty high, and it’s all survivability based instead of damage.

If people want a ranged, very high damage, very dangerous build P/P already exists. It’s good until you face people with fast reactions that just punish you for running a glass cannon set.

p/p is all about long channeld skills, & has a terrible stealth opener. i doubt rifle will be the same. longer range plus damage in one shot will mean you can open fights by almost killing your foe w the opening shot. comparing that to p/p 3 spam doesn’t make sense.

niw, im speculating sure, but it seems highly likely that rifle will be a power based sniper style weapon.

. Engi & Warr . Beta > 2017 Death of PvP
currently a Boyfriend main :P
Waiting To ReRoll Mystic & Forget About Tyria

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Posted by: anduriell.6280

anduriell.6280

I agree is going to be a disaster. But hey who said there is going to be balance in this game… it hasn’t been for 4 years, why start now?.

But hey, then the meta will shift to camper meta!!!

I TOLD YOU SO
Inverse to Apple: SBeast is the worst yet.. jurl jurl
I’m all in for Team Irenio!

(edited by anduriell.6280)

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Posted by: choovanski.5462

choovanski.5462

great, thread was moved. now we get to hear from the thief community, not the WvW community.

great job moron-mod, might as well have deleted the thread.

. Engi & Warr . Beta > 2017 Death of PvP
currently a Boyfriend main :P
Waiting To ReRoll Mystic & Forget About Tyria

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Posted by: AikijinX.6258

AikijinX.6258

I get tired of people complaining before things even happen, thus swaying the judgement of ANET. I do remember ANET explicitly saying that they make something really over powered first, and nerf afterwards as needed. Just let things take their course. Elite specs will always be overpowered at first, If you remember the first elite specializations.

Maguuma
AikijinX- [Mada] [MILF] [HUNT] 7.3k Thief Hours
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Posted by: TheDarkSoul.1938

TheDarkSoul.1938

great, thread was moved. now we get to hear from the thief community, not the WvW community.

great job moron-mod, might as well have deleted the thread.

Lol. So basically you don’t want to argue against the people that actually know wtf they’re talking about when it comes to Thief instead of whining endlessly with people that think Thief can take 6 traitlines in the same build and that 1200 range AA + utilities and nothing else is OP?

This isn’t an attempt for you and the rest of the people here to have a meaningful discussion. I actually share some of the concerns but the way people are presenting them and backing them up with god awful knowledge of the Thief angers me, and just leads me to the conclusion you’re just digging for kitten to moan about because you don’t like Thief.

I’m so bored of this now. Backstab got nerfed into oblivion because of people like you and it’s now totally useless. Same for Acro unless you’re running Staff Bound, which mostly relies on the overtuned stuff from Daredevil + SoA anyway. Shadow Arts is powercreeped too and yet people still complain about “stealth spam”, which btw NO good Thief build even kittening does anymore, lol. The only Thief build that can 100-0 anyone (unreliably as well if the opponent is worth their salt) is full glass signet D/D, and if they miss the opening burst, a 7 year old with a half broken keyboard could kill in 10 seconds flat. Yet people still complain about “omg 100-0 burst”.

Yawn.

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Posted by: TheDarkSoul.1938

TheDarkSoul.1938

it’s really pointless to hypothesize without any skills, but consider why it will PROBABLY suck:
D/P is the lifeblood of thief. Running non-DP of any for is sort of cheesy or considered trollish, because it’s so kittening impractical to not run D/P.

The weapons that even get swapped to need to have evade, movement, or their own form of escape to warrant even occasional use (SB, S/D, P/D, Staff). Thief is a really strong class, but it’s also completely dependent on D/P to function in WvW, and the Rifle needs a LOT going for it to be good.

Thief uses 2 separate weapon sets.
Rifle-D/P.
Easy.

You must play a slow motion version of WvW where a thief can sit in a weapon set for 10 seconds that doesn’t have its own movement, evade, or escape.

The threshold rifle needs to hit to even be swappable without getting destroyed is pretty high, and it’s all survivability based instead of damage.

If people want a ranged, very high damage, very dangerous build P/P already exists. It’s good until you face people with fast reactions that just punish you for running a glass cannon set.

p/p is all about long channeld skills, & has a terrible stealth opener. i doubt rifle will be the same. longer range plus damage in one shot will mean you can open fights by almost killing your foe w the opening shot. comparing that to p/p 3 spam doesn’t make sense.

niw, im speculating sure, but it seems highly likely that rifle will be a power based sniper style weapon.

I could speculate that D/D Spellbreaker will be able to fly, have the fastest AA speed in the game, be able to teleport 2400 meters on a 5 second cd and still retain the traditional melee warrior burst and sustain, shall I start posting threads on the WvW forum complaining about that too and then whine some more when it gets moved to a place (the Warrior forums) where people actually know what they’re talking about and tell me I’m stupid?

There’s nothing “highly likely” about anything. Nothing. It MIGHT happen, sure. But that’s no different to me saying that what I just said about Spellbreaker MIGHT happen, and there aren’t any threads about that, lol. At this point it’s just as likely Rifle be a condi weapon. Or a more “shotgun” based weapon. Or a support weapon. Or sustained DPS rather than burst. Hell, any combination of those things. You dont even know if it’ll have a gunflame-esque skill, so stop spouting nonsense about “highly likely this” and “highly likely that”.

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Posted by: Jugglemonkey.8741

Jugglemonkey.8741

Posted this in another thread, just gonna copy and paste.

Just something to note, having stealth and a long range damage skill could be more balanced than you realise, simply because taking this elite spec locks you out of daredevil. So what you should be thinking about is what would core thief look like with a rifle. This has several repercussions:

1) Mobility and evades will be significantly lower than what most thieves are probably used to by now.
2) Reveals are probably going to mean death for this spec, which combined with the lack of defenses on core thief means any druid with sic ‘em will likely hard counter this build.
3) You can’t play pulmonary impact for interrupt damage, so if the spec is CC/support based it loses that damage source.
4) This build will have zero condi cleanse outside of stealth, due to not being able to take EA from daredevil and core thief being too reliant on SA for cleanse. See 2 on reveals.
5) Rifle thieves will have to take that spec, leaving a choice of two from DA, SA and trickery. So it’s either going to be glass or lose significant damage modifiers to gain condi cleanse and minimal damage reduction.
6) I’m assuming that the ICD on stealth attacks was implemented with this elite spec in mind (think of the acro nerfs while daredevil was in development). So if we have a long range sniper, I’d bet that it’s boon steal will be deliberately limited, making aegis/blocks/protection/reflects much more useful vs this build.

So, if they make the rifle DPS based, they simply have to avoid giving evades, mobility or massive damage modifiers in the elite spec traits. Making the traits support/CC based (with both a power and condi line) but the weapon DPS based would be an interesting way to introduce more builds, while leaving limits on the power of a glass rifle spec.

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Posted by: Toolbox.9375

Toolbox.9375

I have faith that they’ll work out how to make it balanced. My hope is that it is indeed partially focused on spike damage, but also a good deal on support. A unique type of Vulnerability, for instance, stacking with existing Vulnerability to give them a supportive approach to higher-end PvE content. And of course, I pray that it will have extended range similar to Ranger’s Longbow, because I’d have a hoot with that.

Might sound like too much to ask, but there’s always a way to make things balanced. The single-dodge seems like one effective way; gaining offensive capability for a severe reduction in defense.

The class is always greener on the other side.

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Posted by: Asur.9178

Asur.9178

How does it make me feel?

Like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdEQmpVIE4A

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

Eh, I’m SHOCKED a post like this one was made. Seriously, shocked. /s

I think we’re all jumping the gun abit here (no pun intended). We don’t know ANYTHING about the spec, besides the rifle part + the rumour about it having one Dodge (which isn’t even confirmed to be true is it?)

So why are people ALREADY complaining? There have already been great examples of Rifle specs created by members of the community (Deceiver X’s Deadeye spec comes to mind) that involve absolutely none of this whole “one shot sniper” nonsense. Yeah, true enough that Anet doesn’t have a great track record when it comes to this stuff and I wouldn’t really be SURPRISED if we got some cheesy glass cannon BS. But the fact that before we know anything at all about the spec there are people calling us “trolls” and the like simply for getting excited about the possibility, however small, of Thieves having an actual ranged weapon that doesn’t just use skill 5 is stupid.

Wait until some actual concrete details get released until you start up bashing the spec for being OP and ridiculous, lol.

Yeah, but the very innate design of having high burst on this kind of kit is very concerning design-wise. IMHO, the complaints, pre-emptively, are largely justified.

Odds are we’re even getting rifle to begin with because half of the thief community automatically associates OHKO-style gameplay as a “sniper” is inherently fun or interesting because sniping. Expressing mechanical discontent now is at the very least better than post-release.

Frankly, if it has one dodge, then expect to never see this profession be played in any environment outside of WvW cheese for the sake of montage videos and kids freaking out because “ermagerd I just one-shotted three people” while sitting on a ledge in stealth. I made the call when Daredevil was first released that no other elite spec, unless made totally broken or changing the thief massively, will ever compete with Daredevil. If we see one dodge, this will hold true.

I’d like to think my proposal had some influence on ANet’s next spec since the name is the same, however I trust them to not implement it at all like mine. In hindsight, I’m questioning if going to the extreme detail I went into ultimately hurt the spec because ANet is too stubborn to copy-paste someone else’s suggestions regardless of their merit.

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Posted by: Mongk.2467

Mongk.2467

I am really hoping that deadeye isn’t the real name and it becomes a support spec. Isn’t impossible, there are healer shooters out there like Ana from OW or Spellslinger from WS.

Support rifle team! haha

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

I am really hoping that deadeye isn’t the real name and it becomes a support spec. Isn’t impossible, there are healer shooters out there like Ana from OW or Spellslinger from WS.

Support rifle team! haha

Read my proposal. It’s both.

Just I doubt this is what we’ll see.

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Posted by: Mikhail.4961

Mikhail.4961

I had hoped for the terrestrial Spear (for thieves and warriors), as some of the Seraph guards in Lake Doric are wielding them, but I am… unsure about the rifle.
For PvP? The maps with reachable high ground and good line of sight (Spirit Watch, Skyhammer) would probably be good for it, but those that are flatter or cramped? Probably not.
In WvWvW it’ll probably be disgustingly overtuned, then nerfed and forgotten, because a class with high mobility, stealth and high damage long range attacks, just can’t be balanced without some noticeable penalty to using the rifle – at which point, why should you use it at all?

Any class is easy to play, but not as easy to master. So sod off, warrior-haters.

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Posted by: Sly.9518

Sly.9518

A certain someone in this thread has been on a witch hunt for Thieves for a really long time so anything that person says can generally be dismissed since it’s based in fantasy. Most people also seem to forget that if Thief takes Rifle it either has to give up it’s High Mobility or it’s high access to stealth since Thief will still only be having two weapon sets that will still be tied to Initiative being shared across both.

And again if only there wasn’t already a High mobility High stealth accessible long range Class in game that can achieve large burst.

Tl:dr

  • Thief will have to sacrifice High mobility aka Shortbow
    Or
  • Sacrifice High stealth Access Aka Dagger/Pistol
  • Thief will lose access to the third dodge and all the dodge shenanigans that are tied to Daredevil.

So everyone freaking out because they are afraid of a Boogeyman don’t worry you may think Thief can use 5 specialization lines and use both Elite specs at once and have 3 weapon sets equipped at anyone time( directed at the certain someone on the witch hunt) but fear not Thief still only get 3 specializations to include 1 Elite spec and only two weapon sets which if choosing Rifle they lose one of the two things Thieves are known for.

Tl:dr to the Tl:Dr
L2P

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Posted by: Jugglemonkey.8741

Jugglemonkey.8741

Just to be clear, I’m not massively looking forward to rifle either. I think it’ll be stupidly op, or useless. Most likely both, and in that order. It’ll also take a lot for it to replace D/P, since the utility on that set is immense, and I already hit between 9-15k backstabs depending on armor class and toughness. Pretty sure I can hit higher than that as well.

Lastly, it’s probably going to be fairly boring to play once the fun of high damage wears off if it’s a DPS spec. I’m mainly looking forward to it as it’s going to mean I have a use for that predator rifle sat in my bank, as my engi sure isn’t making use of it.

All things considered, if it’s a spec that you’d only use with rifle and D/P doesn’t benefit from it, I’d be happy with that. Daredevil is the glassy DPS elite spec, let’s have something different this time around.

Critical Kit, Thief.
Don’t follow me, unless you enjoy being chased by angry men with sticks.
Power Build Condi Build

(edited by Jugglemonkey.8741)

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Posted by: Svarty.8019

Svarty.8019

  • Thief will have to sacrifice High mobility aka Shortbow
    Or
  • Sacrifice High stealth Access Aka Dagger/Pistol
  • Thief will lose access to the third dodge and all the dodge shenanigans that are tied to Daredevil.

If that happens, they are wasting their time developing it because no thief will elect to lose those things.

They may as well just put a blank placeholder for thief elite instead and save us all a lot of time and effort.

Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.

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Posted by: Sly.9518

Sly.9518

  • Thief will have to sacrifice High mobility aka Shortbow
    Or
  • Sacrifice High stealth Access Aka Dagger/Pistol
  • Thief will lose access to the third dodge and all the dodge shenanigans that are tied to Daredevil.

If that happens, they are wasting their time developing it because no thief will elect to lose those things.

They may as well just put a blank placeholder for thief elite instead and save us all a lot of time and effort.

Doubtful Staff gave up High Stealth Access and still people flock to it….. or they gave up their vertical mobility and still flocked to it.

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Posted by: TheDarkSoul.1938

TheDarkSoul.1938

Eh, I’m SHOCKED a post like this one was made. Seriously, shocked. /s

I think we’re all jumping the gun abit here (no pun intended). We don’t know ANYTHING about the spec, besides the rifle part + the rumour about it having one Dodge (which isn’t even confirmed to be true is it?)

So why are people ALREADY complaining? There have already been great examples of Rifle specs created by members of the community (Deceiver X’s Deadeye spec comes to mind) that involve absolutely none of this whole “one shot sniper” nonsense. Yeah, true enough that Anet doesn’t have a great track record when it comes to this stuff and I wouldn’t really be SURPRISED if we got some cheesy glass cannon BS. But the fact that before we know anything at all about the spec there are people calling us “trolls” and the like simply for getting excited about the possibility, however small, of Thieves having an actual ranged weapon that doesn’t just use skill 5 is stupid.

Wait until some actual concrete details get released until you start up bashing the spec for being OP and ridiculous, lol.

Yeah, but the very innate design of having high burst on this kind of kit is very concerning design-wise. IMHO, the complaints, pre-emptively, are largely justified.

Odds are we’re even getting rifle to begin with because half of the thief community automatically associates OHKO-style gameplay as a “sniper” is inherently fun or interesting because sniping. Expressing mechanical discontent now is at the very least better than post-release.

Frankly, if it has one dodge, then expect to never see this profession be played in any environment outside of WvW cheese for the sake of montage videos and kids freaking out because “ermagerd I just one-shotted three people” while sitting on a ledge in stealth. I made the call when Daredevil was first released that no other elite spec, unless made totally broken or changing the thief massively, will ever compete with Daredevil. If we see one dodge, this will hold true.

I’d like to think my proposal had some influence on ANet’s next spec since the name is the same, however I trust them to not implement it at all like mine. In hindsight, I’m questioning if going to the extreme detail I went into ultimately hurt the spec because ANet is too stubborn to copy-paste someone else’s suggestions regardless of their merit.

You’re right, it IS concerning. I’d just prefer it if people waited until they knew something concrete about the Spec before they started kittening and complaining about it. I mean, let’s be brutally honest here – if it’s 1200 range condi oriented, people will complain. Heck, some people here reckon that just an AA + utilities would be OP at 1200 range.

Do I want it to be some cheesy one-shot “sniper” build? Nope, I think that’d be boring as kitten and I wouldn’t touch it with a stick. Am I worried it MIGHT be that? Sure. But as I was said, I could quite easily go around the other proffession forums complaining about “maybe this” and “maybe that” and I’d probably get laughed at for all the same reasons I’ve brought up on this thread. The only difference here is that it’s Thief so it’s okay to complain about it, and it’s annoying.

Then there’s the fact that most of the complaints here are backed up by awful logic and a severe lack of knowledge of Core Thief in general, which winds me up something rotten.

Daredevil may end up being better than Deadeye, but I’m just excited at the prospect of playing something different. Daredevil is incredibly boring to play so I’m hoping that Deadeye will bring something more interesting to the table, like what your suggestion was. Maybe that’s just wishful thinking though.

Fissure Of Woe – [lpe]
I Silent – Thief
…. That’s about it.

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Posted by: Sviel.7493

Sviel.7493

So this was moved to the thief forum…

I feel very differently about Rifle thief in general than I do about it in WvW, though. I plan to enjoy it in PvE myself and I don’t care about sPvP. The two topics seem very, very different.

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

You’re right, it IS concerning. I’d just prefer it if people waited until they knew something concrete about the Spec before they started kittening and complaining about it. I mean, let’s be brutally honest here – if it’s 1200 range condi oriented, people will complain. Heck, some people here reckon that just an AA + utilities would be OP at 1200 range.

Do I want it to be some cheesy one-shot “sniper” build? Nope, I think that’d be boring as kitten and I wouldn’t touch it with a stick. Am I worried it MIGHT be that? Sure. But as I was said, I could quite easily go around the other proffession forums complaining about “maybe this” and “maybe that” and I’d probably get laughed at for all the same reasons I’ve brought up on this thread. The only difference here is that it’s Thief so it’s okay to complain about it, and it’s annoying.

Then there’s the fact that most of the complaints here are backed up by awful logic and a severe lack of knowledge of Core Thief in general, which winds me up something rotten.

Daredevil may end up being better than Deadeye, but I’m just excited at the prospect of playing something different. Daredevil is incredibly boring to play so I’m hoping that Deadeye will bring something more interesting to the table, like what your suggestion was. Maybe that’s just wishful thinking though.

Honestly, long range condi is probably the most frustrating thing they could give the thief in regards to WvW. In sPvP it won’t matter since it likely won’t be remotely as mobile and slippery as Daredevil – it wouldn’t get played. Condi probably won’t be leading DPS charts either, which makes the build “useless” for anything but casual PvE.

But then what’s the point of designing anything well if it’s intended for casual PvE? Although one could supply an argument that it’s clear that’s the intention of the devs given the current state of the game.

The way I see it is, if we just let ANet run rampant, we end up with Daredevil v2 in some other cheese/idea. If we don’t criticize the bad ideas before they seek development time, we end up with rifle power sniper, which honestly, isn’t really any different in terms of playstyle as say Killshot warrior or even in a closer semblance, combo power shatter GS mesmer. Both of these builds are pretty mediocre though, which is really what I’m trying to say; why develop such a niche idea with so limited scope of effectiveness when the amount of work required for it is so tremendous, and have the cases where it does work feel cheap?

I just see little reason in hoping blindly for the best rather than expressing concerns now.

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Posted by: alchemyst.2165

alchemyst.2165

It’s probably either going to be overpowered or underpowered. Balancing a long range, presumably burst weapon when there is stealth and mobility is difficult. However, as long as they make it squishy enough, and have enough kite tools while having 1 or two decent burst skills I think it will be okay.

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Posted by: martin.1653

martin.1653

Lol, so funny to see people getting frustrated and angry over something nobody knows nothing about yet. Just shows the amount of trash thieves have to endure for mere existing in the game.
Some people just can’t handle the fact they are terrible and at some point got their ass handed to them by thief.

Thief getting 1200/1500 range weapon? Get over it!
Thief will do decent range damage just like EVERY other class can? Go cry under mom’s skirt.

As for people crying that it will be OP because it will have insane burst out of stealth, look up power burst mesmer with or without PU, doesn’t matter, one shots whatever it wants out of stealth.

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Posted by: godmoney.6025

godmoney.6025

15 chars forum bug go away.

La Fantoma – Aurora Glade

(edited by godmoney.6025)