Rifle Thief: how does it make you feel?

Rifle Thief: how does it make you feel?

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Posted by: godmoney.6025

godmoney.6025

Assuming Anet logic where Mesmer 2H-greatswords and Revenant 2H-hammers are both ranged weapons, I’m assuming they will troll us and make rifle a melee weapon.

New elite skill:
Elite: Add Bayonet to rifle. Increase backstab range to 180.

Incoming cries Nerf thief OP.

La Fantoma – Aurora Glade

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Posted by: Sirbeaumerdier.3740

Sirbeaumerdier.3740

Lol, so funny to see people getting frustrated and angry over something nobody knows nothing about yet. Just shows the amount of trash thieves have to endure for mere existing in the game.
Some people just can’t handle the fact they are terrible and at some point got their ass handed to them by thief.

Thief getting 1200/1500 range weapon? Get over it!
Thief will do decent range damage just like EVERY other class can? Go cry under mom’s skirt.

As for people crying that it will be OP because it will have insane burst out of stealth, look up power burst mesmer with or without PU, doesn’t matter, one shots whatever it wants out of stealth.

You have selective reading skills. People aren’t affraid of a long range weapon in itself. They are affraid of an invisible gunflame with top mobility.

As for your mesmer comparison, I wasn’t aware such a mesmer was a 1200-1500 range gimmick…

At least the attacks that can 100-0 you from stealth ATM (while really anoying) requires you to go within melee range to perform them. Thus leaving you “vulnerable” to counter attacks. What counter attacks do you have vs a 1500 range players that can disapear again and already has the best mobility?

Yes, we do not know for sure what it will come down to, but the existing thief skills, weapons, and trait lines are known. Unless the new specialized trait line modifies what exist I would say people are expressing VERY reasonable fears. The new spec is called DEAD eye. As in, I don’t give kisses, I kill.

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Posted by: Sly.9518

Sly.9518

Lol, so funny to see people getting frustrated and angry over something nobody knows nothing about yet. Just shows the amount of trash thieves have to endure for mere existing in the game.
Some people just can’t handle the fact they are terrible and at some point got their ass handed to them by thief.

Thief getting 1200/1500 range weapon? Get over it!
Thief will do decent range damage just like EVERY other class can? Go cry under mom’s skirt.

As for people crying that it will be OP because it will have insane burst out of stealth, look up power burst mesmer with or without PU, doesn’t matter, one shots whatever it wants out of stealth.

You have selective reading skills. People aren’t affraid of a long range weapon in itself. They are affraid of an invisible gunflame with top mobility.

As for your mesmer comparison, I wasn’t aware such a mesmer was a 1200-1500 range gimmick…

At least the attacks that can 100-0 you from stealth ATM (while really anoying) requires you to go within melee range to perform them. Thus leaving you “vulnerable” to counter attacks. What counter attacks do you have vs a 1500 range players that can disapear again and already has the best mobility?

Yes, we do not know for sure what it will come down to, but the existing thief skills, weapons, and trait lines are known. Unless the new specialized trait line modifies what exist I would say people are expressing VERY reasonable fears. The new spec is called DEAD eye. As in, I don’t give kisses, I kill.

Again If Thief takes Rifle it has to give up its High stealth access or its High mobility, because you know Thief can’t use 3 weapon sets at once and then there is the fact that both weapons use the same resource pool. But I forget facts are pesky little things.

And again there is already a high Burst class that has access to High stealth high Mobility and 1500 range but I guess that doesn’t count….

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Posted by: saerni.2584

saerni.2584

A sniper without stealth makes no sense. A sniper with a lot of stealth would be op.

So it will likely be a medium stealth weapon with (hopefully) a mix of condition damage and power damage (confusion?).

It will probably be a good rotational weapon (good opener and swap weapon) hopefully the line comes with some good projectile bonuses (maybe a range increase for both rifle and pistol?) such as unblockable (like on stealth attack).

Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
Thief (Daredevil)
Commandant of Pistol-Dagger and Apex Predator

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Posted by: fluffdragon.1523

fluffdragon.1523

Well, now that we know it’s on the horizon what do you WvW players think about this?

you know, seeing as it will effect y’all primarily

Logging in to disrupt the thread and say it makes me feel like ArenaNet is going back on their word. Again. Like last time.

Remember waaaaaaay back shortly after release or even during the beta phase when the devs said something along the lines of “Thief will never have greater than 900 weapon range”? And how pretty much until Specializations happened, the only way to get to 1,200 on steal was to take the Trickery line for a specific trait (which was 30 / 6 points), which drastically reduced your options elsewhere?

Other than the harpoon gun for underwater content, this has held true.

So what I’m honestly foreseeing with rifle is we get the same old condition-based Harpoon Gun weapon skills as a terrestrial rehash to balance against the purely physical Staff on Daredevil. Because what better way to repackage content than to phase it out months beforehand and give it back to us under a different name (like Acrobatics)?

And considering the leaked graphic, we can assume traits will include such amazing mechanics as:

  • The Goggles Do Nothing (Crossed-eye icon)
  • Precision -> Toughness Converter (Crosshair-on-shield icon)
  • Ammunition (Initiative replacement?) (Stack-of-bullets icon)
  • High Noon (The one that looks like McCree)
  • General Villainy (Bandito icon)
  • Discovery that Pockets Exist and are Useful for Holding Things (Pocket-with-star icon)
  • YMCA (That other one that looks like McCree)

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Posted by: Sirbeaumerdier.3740

Sirbeaumerdier.3740

Lol, so funny to see people getting frustrated and angry over something nobody knows nothing about yet. Just shows the amount of trash thieves have to endure for mere existing in the game.
Some people just can’t handle the fact they are terrible and at some point got their ass handed to them by thief.

Thief getting 1200/1500 range weapon? Get over it!
Thief will do decent range damage just like EVERY other class can? Go cry under mom’s skirt.

As for people crying that it will be OP because it will have insane burst out of stealth, look up power burst mesmer with or without PU, doesn’t matter, one shots whatever it wants out of stealth.

You have selective reading skills. People aren’t affraid of a long range weapon in itself. They are affraid of an invisible gunflame with top mobility.

As for your mesmer comparison, I wasn’t aware such a mesmer was a 1200-1500 range gimmick…

At least the attacks that can 100-0 you from stealth ATM (while really anoying) requires you to go within melee range to perform them. Thus leaving you “vulnerable” to counter attacks. What counter attacks do you have vs a 1500 range players that can disapear again and already has the best mobility?

Yes, we do not know for sure what it will come down to, but the existing thief skills, weapons, and trait lines are known. Unless the new specialized trait line modifies what exist I would say people are expressing VERY reasonable fears. The new spec is called DEAD eye. As in, I don’t give kisses, I kill.

Again If Thief takes Rifle it has to give up its High stealth access or its High mobility, because you know Thief can’t use 3 weapon sets at once and then there is the fact that both weapons use the same resource pool. But I forget facts are pesky little things.

And again there is already a high Burst class that has access to High stealth high Mobility and 1500 range but I guess that doesn’t count….

I said, STEALTH, not HIGH access to stealth. Shadow refuge and stealth healing + shortbow would do perfectly.

As for your last paragraph, who can 100-0 you from 1500 out of stealth on his own ATM that also has top mobility? A Gunflame zerker could do the damage and has the mobility but not the stealth. A Druid can’t 100-0 you instantly. A mesmer/Chrono has to be up close and personal to deliver such a blow. Same for DD/Thief. So who?

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Posted by: martin.1653

martin.1653

Lol, so funny to see people getting frustrated and angry over something nobody knows nothing about yet. Just shows the amount of trash thieves have to endure for mere existing in the game.
Some people just can’t handle the fact they are terrible and at some point got their ass handed to them by thief.

Thief getting 1200/1500 range weapon? Get over it!
Thief will do decent range damage just like EVERY other class can? Go cry under mom’s skirt.

As for people crying that it will be OP because it will have insane burst out of stealth, look up power burst mesmer with or without PU, doesn’t matter, one shots whatever it wants out of stealth.

You have selective reading skills. People aren’t affraid of a long range weapon in itself. They are affraid of an invisible gunflame with top mobility.

As for your mesmer comparison, I wasn’t aware such a mesmer was a 1200-1500 range gimmick…

At least the attacks that can 100-0 you from stealth ATM (while really anoying) requires you to go within melee range to perform them. Thus leaving you “vulnerable” to counter attacks. What counter attacks do you have vs a 1500 range players that can disapear again and already has the best mobility?

Yes, we do not know for sure what it will come down to, but the existing thief skills, weapons, and trait lines are known. Unless the new specialized trait line modifies what exist I would say people are expressing VERY reasonable fears. The new spec is called DEAD eye. As in, I don’t give kisses, I kill.

No, I don’t have selective reading skills, I just tell you how it is, even before the leak, when people were speculating, there was this irrational fear and warmongering against rifle thief. Most of the people completely ignoring the fact that thief today is what it is ONLY because of daredevil traitline. And guess what? Elite traitlines can’t be combined.

Please then, explain to me how will thief have high mobility and high stealth access outside DD?

And as Sly said after you, people like to ignore the fact that ranger exists. Ranger is a sniper already (1500 range), with more health and a companion acting as meat shield. Also, has stealth galore.

Even if thief gets gunflame-like damage attack from stealth, it would be completely acceptable and fine. You know why? Because warrior has gunflame. And because warrior has everything else double the stuff thief has. At 1500 range if you’re not 1v1 against warrior preparing gunflame, you will get gunflame in face, stealth or no stealth.

As for Mesmer, what difference does it make when you get insta downed? He can port on you and kill you, or just kill you in melee range and port away like nothing happened.

Rifle thief demonising is really getting out of hand.

I really wish that anet really does stupidly op rifle thief just so you people could have some real material to complain about.

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Posted by: Sirbeaumerdier.3740

Sirbeaumerdier.3740

Lol, so funny to see people getting frustrated and angry over something nobody knows nothing about yet. Just shows the amount of trash thieves have to endure for mere existing in the game.
Some people just can’t handle the fact they are terrible and at some point got their ass handed to them by thief.

Thief getting 1200/1500 range weapon? Get over it!
Thief will do decent range damage just like EVERY other class can? Go cry under mom’s skirt.

As for people crying that it will be OP because it will have insane burst out of stealth, look up power burst mesmer with or without PU, doesn’t matter, one shots whatever it wants out of stealth.

You have selective reading skills. People aren’t affraid of a long range weapon in itself. They are affraid of an invisible gunflame with top mobility.

As for your mesmer comparison, I wasn’t aware such a mesmer was a 1200-1500 range gimmick…

At least the attacks that can 100-0 you from stealth ATM (while really anoying) requires you to go within melee range to perform them. Thus leaving you “vulnerable” to counter attacks. What counter attacks do you have vs a 1500 range players that can disapear again and already has the best mobility?

Yes, we do not know for sure what it will come down to, but the existing thief skills, weapons, and trait lines are known. Unless the new specialized trait line modifies what exist I would say people are expressing VERY reasonable fears. The new spec is called DEAD eye. As in, I don’t give kisses, I kill.

No, I don’t have selective reading skills, I just tell you how it is, even before the leak, when people were speculating, there was this irrational fear and warmongering against rifle thief. Most of the people completely ignoring the fact that thief today is what it is ONLY because of daredevil traitline. And guess what? Elite traitlines can’t be combined.

Please then, explain to me how will thief have high mobility and high stealth access outside DD?

And as Sly said after you, people like to ignore the fact that ranger exists. Ranger is a sniper already (1500 range), with more health and a companion acting as meat shield. Also, has stealth galore.

Even if thief gets gunflame-like damage attack from stealth, it would be completely acceptable and fine. You know why? Because warrior has gunflame. And because warrior has everything else double the stuff thief has. At 1500 range if you’re not 1v1 against warrior preparing gunflame, you will get gunflame in face, stealth or no stealth.

As for Mesmer, what difference does it make when you get insta downed? He can port on you and kill you, or just kill you in melee range and port away like nothing happened.

Rifle thief demonising is really getting out of hand.

I really wish that anet really does stupidly op rifle thief just so you people could have some real material to complain about.

Sorry but your reply confirm that you do have bad reading skills.

People are afraid of high mobility and 1500 range 100-0 damage potential combined with stealth. NOT with high stealth access. Just stealth. And this can EASILY be achieved without the DD trait line. Ever heard of SR?

Let’s face it. The basic thief/DD frame has inherent balance issues in a place like WvW and already appeal to most trolls as is. Adding 1500 range to it in that context is legitimately frighting and pretty easy to grasp why it can be a problem if you play WvW even just a little.

BTW. Ranger can’t 100-0 anybody from 1500 away. It never happened to me despite playing pure glass. He can pew-pew from this far with stealth, but the burst is nothing like a gunflame or a shatter combo.

(edited by Sirbeaumerdier.3740)

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Posted by: martin.1653

martin.1653

Ok. So you’re looking at balance from the WvW point of view. Gotcha.

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Posted by: Sirbeaumerdier.3740

Sirbeaumerdier.3740

Ok. So you’re looking at balance from the WvW point of view. Gotcha.

When you do not split skill between game modes, you have to look at all game modes or you will have major problems.

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Posted by: saerni.2584

saerni.2584

DD can’t be paired with Deadeye so the movement impairment immunity and general condition immunity evade builds will not be an issue.

Take core thief and then add rifle. Potentially good but will have to see what the spec gets and not speculate based on assumption it will get stuff it won’t.

Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
Thief (Daredevil)
Commandant of Pistol-Dagger and Apex Predator

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Posted by: godmoney.6025

godmoney.6025

Quit fighting everyone, to balance rifle thief Anet will make it melee weapon as I already stated previously.

La Fantoma – Aurora Glade

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Posted by: Sirbeaumerdier.3740

Sirbeaumerdier.3740

Quit fighting everyone, to balance rifle thief Anet will make it melee weapon as I already stated previously.

Considering Rev hammer is a long range weapon, it might be possible that a rifle could end-up being a melee weapon, but I doubt they would troll thief players this bad with a bayonet build.

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Posted by: saerni.2584

saerni.2584

“Deliver a flurry of melee attacks with your sniper rifle, inflict 20 stacks of confusion.

Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
Thief (Daredevil)
Commandant of Pistol-Dagger and Apex Predator

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Posted by: choovanski.5462

choovanski.5462

Ok. So you’re looking at balance from the WvW point of view. Gotcha.

When you do not split skill between game modes, you have to look at all game modes or you will have major problems.

this thread was in the WvW forum, because it was meant to be a WvW based discussion, but some potato moved it.

as far as roaming goes I can’t see how power rifle for thief is going to be anything but a nightmare. all you need is shadow step, stealth heal and either blinding power or refuge. the gameplay is simple, if the opening shot doesn’t kill them, stealth or shadow step to set up the next one. that’s it, that’s all.

to the guy from a few pages ago with the terrible argument based of an imaginary flying warrior: you’re obviously not worth having a dialogue with of any sorts, so I won’t bother.

. Engi & Warr . Beta > 2017 Death of PvP
currently a Boyfriend main :P
Waiting To ReRoll Mystic & Forget About Tyria

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Posted by: Sly.9518

Sly.9518

Lol, so funny to see people getting frustrated and angry over something nobody knows nothing about yet. Just shows the amount of trash thieves have to endure for mere existing in the game.
Some people just can’t handle the fact they are terrible and at some point got their ass handed to them by thief.

Thief getting 1200/1500 range weapon? Get over it!
Thief will do decent range damage just like EVERY other class can? Go cry under mom’s skirt.

As for people crying that it will be OP because it will have insane burst out of stealth, look up power burst mesmer with or without PU, doesn’t matter, one shots whatever it wants out of stealth.

You have selective reading skills. People aren’t affraid of a long range weapon in itself. They are affraid of an invisible gunflame with top mobility.

As for your mesmer comparison, I wasn’t aware such a mesmer was a 1200-1500 range gimmick…

At least the attacks that can 100-0 you from stealth ATM (while really anoying) requires you to go within melee range to perform them. Thus leaving you “vulnerable” to counter attacks. What counter attacks do you have vs a 1500 range players that can disapear again and already has the best mobility?

Yes, we do not know for sure what it will come down to, but the existing thief skills, weapons, and trait lines are known. Unless the new specialized trait line modifies what exist I would say people are expressing VERY reasonable fears. The new spec is called DEAD eye. As in, I don’t give kisses, I kill.

Again If Thief takes Rifle it has to give up its High stealth access or its High mobility, because you know Thief can’t use 3 weapon sets at once and then there is the fact that both weapons use the same resource pool. But I forget facts are pesky little things.

And again there is already a high Burst class that has access to High stealth high Mobility and 1500 range but I guess that doesn’t count….

I said, STEALTH, not HIGH access to stealth. Shadow refuge and stealth healing + shortbow would do perfectly.

As for your last paragraph, who can 100-0 you from 1500 out of stealth on his own ATM that also has top mobility? A Gunflame zerker could do the damage and has the mobility but not the stealth. A Druid can’t 100-0 you instantly. A mesmer/Chrono has to be up close and personal to deliver such a blow. Same for DD/Thief. So who?

Wow you are afraid of a stealth skill on a 60 second cd that can self reveal a thief and has a giant tell to every enemy to where the thief is and a 1 sec cast time Heal that has a 30 second CD bahahaha bahahhaha.

I see the problem and it’s not 1200 range Attacks from stealth. Maybe a reflective surface will help you see it.

And a Druid can 100-0 you it’s called zerker and Marauder stats and building for it, with High mobility and Access to stealth. It’s quite easy to do as well.

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Posted by: Sirbeaumerdier.3740

Sirbeaumerdier.3740

Lol, so funny to see people getting frustrated and angry over something nobody knows nothing about yet. Just shows the amount of trash thieves have to endure for mere existing in the game.
Some people just can’t handle the fact they are terrible and at some point got their ass handed to them by thief.

Thief getting 1200/1500 range weapon? Get over it!
Thief will do decent range damage just like EVERY other class can? Go cry under mom’s skirt.

As for people crying that it will be OP because it will have insane burst out of stealth, look up power burst mesmer with or without PU, doesn’t matter, one shots whatever it wants out of stealth.

You have selective reading skills. People aren’t affraid of a long range weapon in itself. They are affraid of an invisible gunflame with top mobility.

As for your mesmer comparison, I wasn’t aware such a mesmer was a 1200-1500 range gimmick…

At least the attacks that can 100-0 you from stealth ATM (while really anoying) requires you to go within melee range to perform them. Thus leaving you “vulnerable” to counter attacks. What counter attacks do you have vs a 1500 range players that can disapear again and already has the best mobility?

Yes, we do not know for sure what it will come down to, but the existing thief skills, weapons, and trait lines are known. Unless the new specialized trait line modifies what exist I would say people are expressing VERY reasonable fears. The new spec is called DEAD eye. As in, I don’t give kisses, I kill.

Again If Thief takes Rifle it has to give up its High stealth access or its High mobility, because you know Thief can’t use 3 weapon sets at once and then there is the fact that both weapons use the same resource pool. But I forget facts are pesky little things.

And again there is already a high Burst class that has access to High stealth high Mobility and 1500 range but I guess that doesn’t count….

I said, STEALTH, not HIGH access to stealth. Shadow refuge and stealth healing + shortbow would do perfectly.

As for your last paragraph, who can 100-0 you from 1500 out of stealth on his own ATM that also has top mobility? A Gunflame zerker could do the damage and has the mobility but not the stealth. A Druid can’t 100-0 you instantly. A mesmer/Chrono has to be up close and personal to deliver such a blow. Same for DD/Thief. So who?

Wow you are afraid of a stealth skill on a 60 second cd that can self reveal a thief and has a giant tell to every enemy to where the thief is and a 1 sec cast time Heal that has a 30 second CD bahahaha bahahhaha.

I see the problem and it’s not 1200 range Attacks from stealth. Maybe a reflective surface will help you see it.

And a Druid can 100-0 you it’s called zerker and Marauder stats and building for it, with High mobility and Access to stealth. It’s quite easy to do as well.

I give up.

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Posted by: MakubeC.3026

MakubeC.3026

lol, people in this thread make for a cheap laugh.
“Nerf plz” and we don’t even have the kitten name of the Elite XD

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Posted by: Sly.9518

Sly.9518

lol, people in this thread make for a cheap laugh.
“Nerf plz” and we don’t even have the kitten name of the Elite XD

We do it’s Deadeye

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Posted by: Toolbox.9375

Toolbox.9375

I’ve always figured that “the” spike damage skill of a Sniper Thief would be something that’s charged over time using Initiative, draws a blatantly obvious sniper laser of sorts between the Thief and their target, and then takes a second or so to actually fire once the charge is complete, with some sort of indication during that second that they’re done charging; the laser goes away, or a target appears above the victim’s head, something like that. Huge warning that it’s coming, super easy to dodge if you aren’t just spamming your dodges, the laser makes it clear where you can move to for cover even without dodging. Other Rifle skills are then more suited to crowd control and debuffs, which can make it easier to land the damage skill, but use up the Initiative that might otherwise make it truly deadly.

At least, that’s how I’ve always envisioned it and hoped it to be. I’m not nearly as worried about it being imbalanced as everyone else, here… What I AM worried about is it being really disappointing, missing the things I’m really hoping for which are Ranger-Longbow-esque range, spike damage, and supportive capabilities. It’s a lot to ask.

The class is always greener on the other side.

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Posted by: Sly.9518

Sly.9518

I’ve always figured that “the” spike damage skill of a Sniper Thief would be something that’s charged over time using Initiative, draws a blatantly obvious sniper laser of sorts between the Thief and their target, and then takes a second or so to actually fire once the charge is complete, with some sort of indication during that second that they’re done charging; the laser goes away, or a target appears above the victim’s head, something like that. Huge warning that it’s coming, super easy to dodge if you aren’t just spamming your dodges, the laser makes it clear where you can move to for cover even without dodging. Other Rifle skills are then more suited to crowd control and debuffs, which can make it easier to land the damage skill, but use up the Initiative that might otherwise make it truly deadly.

At least, that’s how I’ve always envisioned it and hoped it to be. I’m not nearly as worried about it being imbalanced as everyone else, here… What I AM worried about is it being really disappointing, missing the things I’m really hoping for which are Ranger-Longbow-esque range, spike damage, and supportive capabilities. It’s a lot to ask.

Why would Thief have to have a large Tell for Burst from range when no other class that can burst from range have anything similar?

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Posted by: Toolbox.9375

Toolbox.9375

Why would Thief have to have a large Tell for Burst from range when no other class that can burst from range have anything similar?

Because I’d imagine a Thief burst attack that can consume as high as 15 Initiative to power it would do a lot, lot more damage than something like Warrior’s Kill Shot. In a PvP situation, that could be infuriating if it has no counterplay, even if it does take a while to charge up. I’d much rather have tells of that sort and have to have teammates keep the enemy locked down to really thrive than have some relatively shoddy peashooter than only nicks their health bar.

The class is always greener on the other side.

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Posted by: Sly.9518

Sly.9518

Why would Thief have to have a large Tell for Burst from range when no other class that can burst from range have anything similar?

Because I’d imagine a Thief burst attack that can consume as high as 15 Initiative to power it would do a lot, lot more damage than something like Warrior’s Kill Shot. In a PvP situation, that could be infuriating if it has no counterplay, even if it does take a while to charge up. I’d much rather have tells of that sort and have to have teammates keep the enemy locked down to really thrive than have some relatively shoddy peashooter than only nicks their health bar.

Yeah because a 20k gun flame is Low damage………

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Posted by: ExpiredLifetime.1083

ExpiredLifetime.1083

You know, no one has even seen the skills for a rifle thief yet.

What if they weren’t able to use their auto attack without standing still? What if their bursts require them to stand still? That makes them immediately countered by any ground-targeted AoE out there; if the thief doesn’t move, they die. If they move, they do no damage.

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Posted by: Tabootrinket.2631

Tabootrinket.2631

I kinda feel there’s a chance rifle specialization traits might also benefit pistols. I’m definitely ok with that.

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Posted by: Lightsbane.9012

Lightsbane.9012

i think if the rifle performs like a winchester 72 instead of a barret light 50 we should be okay. the ‘deadeye’ implies, to me at least, something like an old western sharpshooter.

As quick as the Valkyries ride,
As true as Odin’s spear flies,
There is nowhere to hide.

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Posted by: naturesoul.3578

naturesoul.3578

besides i am hopeing ricochet gets a comeback with rifle thief, i am also hopeing they name it “Drifter”

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Posted by: Famine.7915

Famine.7915

Makes me feel like a…. Predator?… <3

Vee/Volk
Maguuma – Predatory Instinct [HUNT]
Necromancer

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Posted by: Jyrio.4637

Jyrio.4637

besides i am hopeing ricochet gets a comeback with rifle thief, i am also hopeing they name it “Drifter”

Yes that would be awesome, id also hope they would not put it on the same tier as a % dmg increase Trait so you dont have to choose between Aoe and and flat dmg but i guess thats to much to hope for :-)

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Posted by: Mongk.2467

Mongk.2467

My main complain with this is that we have a dual wield mechanic and they give us two 2handed weapon, wtf anet? I would love to be able to use dual sword on thief someday.

The good part is that I am so happy that I will be able to be a sniper with a cannon gun <3

(edited by Mongk.2467)

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Posted by: Herr der Ringe.3251

Herr der Ringe.3251

i just hope that its gonna be a somewhat supportiv style long range rifle…
(think ana in overwatch)
just so all these ppl whining about long range stealth oneshots will be wrong :’)

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Posted by: Svarty.8019

Svarty.8019

Do I want it to be some cheesy one-shot “sniper” build? Nope, I think that’d be boring as kitten and I wouldn’t touch it with a stick.

… because a cheesy one-shot melee build is so much more interesting.

jk .. I know it takes two-shots to kill people.

Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

Do I want it to be some cheesy one-shot “sniper” build? Nope, I think that’d be boring as kitten and I wouldn’t touch it with a stick.

… because a cheesy one-shot melee build is so much more interesting.

jk .. I know it takes two-shots to kill people.

A number of classes and builds can get away with One-hit kills. It’s not a massive number, and many can definitely one-button-kill or two-hit kill, but it’s doable depending on both one’s build and the enemy’s.

Having it happen with relatively low risk (range) + stealth + shadowsteps/mobility is just begging for problems, though. If on the design-level it takes nuking into account, the spec will always be underpowered or overpowered with no in-between.

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Posted by: saerni.2584

saerni.2584

Still going to get Predator for the support sniping.

Especially if Deadeye is like the elite version of SA like DrD was elite acro.

Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
Thief (Daredevil)
Commandant of Pistol-Dagger and Apex Predator

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Posted by: Artaz.3819

Artaz.3819

People are still assuming it won’t be a condition weapon and allow players to react with condition removal … you know, because the game needs more condition builds right now.

Here take this 10 stack bleed from 1500 range with some minor direct damage component (to make sure it gives revealed) …

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Posted by: saerni.2584

saerni.2584

Trait: if standing still and no enemy is within 600 range enter stealth. Continues to apply stealth until you move or enemy comes within 600 units. Goes on cooldown after you move or are revealed for 30 seconds.

Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
Thief (Daredevil)
Commandant of Pistol-Dagger and Apex Predator

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Posted by: knyy.6427

knyy.6427

Let’s pretend thief will get a rifle for his new elite spec.

While I first had doubts to the balance in wvw, I think there is enough which could and probably will be done to make it balanced.

It won’t be a problem in spvp, because those maps are rather small, there are a lot of reflects and gap closers.

What Anet can and probably will do is to bring a lot of reveal on the rifle skills or into the class mechanic. They can cripple the movement. Make it 1 dodge, etc etc..

We don’t know yet how this all will turn out, but in pretty sure it will be a power weapon (condi just doesn’t make too much sense, because condi is meta right now anyway and rifle wouldn’t be the condi weapon – more focus, torch or scepter). It will be high single target dps on range, because thief is missing it and if the DPS in pve wouldn’t be good, then nobody would use it anyway, even though not everyone is raiding, but high lvl fractal and raid meta is still a thing the balance team is checking.

There will be a draw back to range dps, im pretty sure.

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Posted by: TheLastNobody.8319

TheLastNobody.8319

Like I’d rather be forced to drink molten metal….this is either going to be a completely underpowered elite spec as thief has such high mobility and stealth access, they’ll make the damage kitten poor, or as others have said, a long range killshot that you can’t see coming.

Ugh I’m getting invisible halo sniper flashbacks all over again, only with them you could see an outline at least.

A knight in shining armor is a man who never had his metal truly tested.

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Posted by: Sly.9518

Sly.9518

Like I’d rather be forced to drink molten metal….this is either going to be a completely underpowered elite spec as thief has such high mobility and stealth access, they’ll make the damage kitten poor, or as others have said, a long range killshot that you can’t see coming.

Ugh I’m getting invisible halo sniper flashbacks all over again, only with them you could see an outline at least.

You do realize Thief would have to Give up:

A) Mobility
Or
B) Stealth access

To use the Rifle…..

Why do people think Thieves will be able to use 3 Weapons at once when it comes to the Rifle.

And it’s not like a High Mobility, High stealth access class doesn’t already have 1500+ range weapon…..

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Posted by: Svarty.8019

Svarty.8019

Like I’d rather be forced to drink molten metal….this is either going to be a completely underpowered elite spec as thief has such high mobility and stealth access, they’ll make the damage kitten poor, or as others have said, a long range killshot that you can’t see coming.

Ugh I’m getting invisible halo sniper flashbacks all over again, only with them you could see an outline at least.

You do realize Thief would have to Give up:

A) Mobility
Or
B) Stealth access

To use the Rifle…..

Why do people think Thieves will be able to use 3 Weapons at once when it comes to the Rifle.

And it’s not like a High Mobility, High stealth access class doesn’t already have 1500+ range weapon…..

Why develop the class if thief has to give up this stuff?

Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.

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Posted by: Sly.9518

Sly.9518

Like I’d rather be forced to drink molten metal….this is either going to be a completely underpowered elite spec as thief has such high mobility and stealth access, they’ll make the damage kitten poor, or as others have said, a long range killshot that you can’t see coming.

Ugh I’m getting invisible halo sniper flashbacks all over again, only with them you could see an outline at least.

You do realize Thief would have to Give up:

A) Mobility
Or
B) Stealth access

To use the Rifle…..

Why do people think Thieves will be able to use 3 Weapons at once when it comes to the Rifle.

And it’s not like a High Mobility, High stealth access class doesn’t already have 1500+ range weapon…..

Why develop the class if thief has to give up this stuff?

Oh no it’s only one facet of play, and it’s a decision since Thief Stealth and Mobility are only better than others due to weapons, if a Thief wants a range weapon they have to either give up High Stealth access(D/P) or High Mobility(Shortbow).

It’s common sense, but people always cry foul thinking of Thief with 1200+ range will be broken because of those things combined, but without one of these two weapons thief loses one of those options.

Thief loses its high Mobility without Shortbow.

Thief loses High stealth access without D/P

So Thief Getting a Rifle is not going to break anything.

Remember the goal of Elite Specs are supposed to offer different ways to play the class

(edited by Sly.9518)

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Posted by: Svarty.8019

Svarty.8019

Like I’d rather be forced to drink molten metal….this is either going to be a completely underpowered elite spec as thief has such high mobility and stealth access, they’ll make the damage kitten poor, or as others have said, a long range killshot that you can’t see coming.

Ugh I’m getting invisible halo sniper flashbacks all over again, only with them you could see an outline at least.

You do realize Thief would have to Give up:

A) Mobility
Or
B) Stealth access

To use the Rifle…..

Why do people think Thieves will be able to use 3 Weapons at once when it comes to the Rifle.

And it’s not like a High Mobility, High stealth access class doesn’t already have 1500+ range weapon…..

Why develop the class if thief has to give up this stuff?

Oh no it’s only one facet of play, and it’s a decision since Thief Stealth and Mobility are only better than others due to weapons, if a Thief wants a range weapon they have to either give up High Stealth access(D/P) or High Mobility(Shortbow).

It’s common sense, but people (bads) always cry foul thinking of Thief with 1200+ range will be broken because of those things combined, but without one of these two weapons thief loses one of those options.

Thief loses its high Mobility without Shortbow.

Thief loses High stealth access without D/P

So Thief Getting a Rifle is not going to break anything.

Remember the goal of Elite Specs are supposed to offer different ways to play the class

But no thief in their right mind would choose to be without those things – so why waste development time on a weapon nobody will choose?

Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.

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Posted by: Sly.9518

Sly.9518

Like I’d rather be forced to drink molten metal….this is either going to be a completely underpowered elite spec as thief has such high mobility and stealth access, they’ll make the damage kitten poor, or as others have said, a long range killshot that you can’t see coming.

Ugh I’m getting invisible halo sniper flashbacks all over again, only with them you could see an outline at least.

You do realize Thief would have to Give up:

A) Mobility
Or
B) Stealth access

To use the Rifle…..

Why do people think Thieves will be able to use 3 Weapons at once when it comes to the Rifle.

And it’s not like a High Mobility, High stealth access class doesn’t already have 1500+ range weapon…..

Why develop the class if thief has to give up this stuff?

Oh no it’s only one facet of play, and it’s a decision since Thief Stealth and Mobility are only better than others due to weapons, if a Thief wants a range weapon they have to either give up High Stealth access(D/P) or High Mobility(Shortbow).

It’s common sense, but people (bads) always cry foul thinking of Thief with 1200+ range will be broken because of those things combined, but without one of these two weapons thief loses one of those options.

Thief loses its high Mobility without Shortbow.

Thief loses High stealth access without D/P

So Thief Getting a Rifle is not going to break anything.

Remember the goal of Elite Specs are supposed to offer different ways to play the class

But no thief in their right mind would choose to be without those things – so why waste development time on a weapon nobody will choose?

Like no one uses Staff at all? It gives up mobility or stealth but sees lots of use in all gamemodes, lots of players will use the weapon because it gives a new way to play, and it will probably be an effective way to play depending on the need of the player.

I have seen the posts you make so it’s clear why you ask such questions.

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

Up until the last patch staff had almost as much mobility as shortbow, as well as a tool to remove mobility-impairing effects built-in.

It also depends a lot on environment; mobility in terms of the shortbow is way more important for sPvP than it is in say WvW. Stats and damage are also much higher in WvW. If something is designed to deal burst damage in sPvP, it’s often excessive in WvW. Not to mention that sPvP forces close-range fights for point control, while WvW allows kiting and such to be utilized as much as possible. This is a big difference in terms of what can be considered fair.

I still do not suspect the implementation will be good. BP, SR, and Shadowstep alone are enough to break ranged burst, and if they totally remove stealth and mobility as parts of the thief’s kit when using a rifle, nobody will use it except to cheese. There’s very little room for the rifle to be useful while not being either overpowered/cheesy or underpowered, unless making it a potent support weapon.

We’ll see what happens, but I would expect Daredevil to stay in the meta until Expansion 3 unless the traits for Deadeye are even more overpowered somehow.

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Posted by: Sly.9518

Sly.9518

Up until the last patch staff had almost as much mobility as shortbow, as well as a tool to remove mobility-impairing effects built-in.

It also depends a lot on environment; mobility in terms of the shortbow is way more important for sPvP than it is in say WvW. Stats and damage are also much higher in WvW. If something is designed to deal burst damage in sPvP, it’s often excessive in WvW. Not to mention that sPvP forces close-range fights for point control, while WvW allows kiting and such to be utilized as much as possible. This is a big difference in terms of what can be considered fair.

I still do not suspect the implementation will be good. BP, SR, and Shadowstep alone are enough to break ranged burst, and if they totally remove stealth and mobility as parts of the thief’s kit when using a rifle, nobody will use it except to cheese. There’s very little room for the rifle to be useful while not being either overpowered/cheesy or underpowered, unless making it a potent support weapon.

We’ll see what happens, but I would expect Daredevil to stay in the meta until Expansion 3 unless the traits for Deadeye are even more overpowered somehow.

It’s highly doubtful that a 60 second Huge tell self revealing Stealth field will break 1200 range on Thief and a 50 sec 1200 range Shadowstep won’t break it either, and one more time there is already a class that has High stealth acces, High mobility and high range Burst all on the same kit but has not broken the game, so I doubt it would break the game on Thief, since they have to give up High Stealth access or High mobility, without SB Thief is not the Highest Mobility class, Without D/P Thief isn’t the Highest Stealth access class.

And no Staff did not provide near SB mobility, it is so easy to out pace Staff with SB in every situation especially if there is any Vertical movement involved i.e. Up Ledges/ramps.

So how is a 60 Second CD SR going to break stealth when it can only stack up to 11 seconds of Usable stealth every 60 seconds, let’s not mention That everyone and their mother can see the giant floating House if within 5000 units. And how is one 50 sec CD 1200 Range Shadowstep going to break it?

People need to realize that once you take a look at how Thief would realistically play with a rifle they are over exaggerating the brokenness of the weapon since they make it seem like Thief will be using 3 weapons at once.

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

Ranger burst isn’t even close to what is capable on the thief and you know it. And many will argue druid is incredibly strong as a roamer when in reasonably good hands due to its mobility. Remember how many times CS and other druid skills needed to be nerfed because it was broken? And it was broken from a single trait mostly, which was a pretty easy target. So then what on the thief, if given the capability in this design takes nerfs? Core thief or the spec? I doubt they’ll rework any aspect of the spec’s design because the problems are design-level. And as soon as that happens we just have Daredevil #2 with a different weapon. And as far as the druid, it’s not capable of dealing such damage while moving, either. It’s one or the other. It’s a great kite profession, but a far cry from just a mobile ranged damage dealer.

I’ll even use an example where it’s a stealth attack with thus a cooldown and dependency with only a 1.2 coefficent making it burst pitiful in comparison to most other kits.

D/P stealth -> Swap -> Rifle Burst from 1200 -> SR immediately trailing reveal as enemy comes to engage -> Shoot burst projectile of stealth attack -> During projectile airtime Shadowstep to force reveal early -> Shadow return into last tick of stealth on SR -> Burst

Easily between 20-30k damage without being touched by opposing melee nor using any other skills in the process. Even if we assume a paltry .6 base attack damage coefficient at a .5s cast time, you can squeeze between 10-15k in extra damage from AA’s. That’s incredibly safe damage with a lot of escape potential if need be, considering the merits of SS and SR in their own right. Again this assumes no skill use for further damage nor utility, either.

Now trade some damage for Acrobatics and the thief becomes nigh impossible to lock down from Uncatchable while retaining a double stunbreak teleport and ranged pressure all with the possibility of entering stealth at any given point in time.

We can’t assume anything about the nature of rifle, such as self-inflicted reveal, mobility cuts, evasion drops, etc., because people made the same kinds of assumptions regarding the Daredevil in regards to what the thief gained; turns out, there effectively were no sacrifices made at all when taking Daredevil, similar to DH, Berserker, Druid, and so on.

As soon as we start making assumptions things will be well-designed with legitimate drawbacks, we’re begging to be let down when they aren’t there.

It’s why I’m naturally opposed to the rifle being a damaging weapon without major consequences and why I’m suggesting the very notion itself is concerning.

(edited by DeceiverX.8361)

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Posted by: Sly.9518

Sly.9518

You are under the assumption Stealth attack on Rifle is going to be high coefficient like Backstab, with nothing to go on that, people are crying before knowing anything concrete, it’s stealth attack could be pure control for all we know or a Condi Stealth attack, and againthief has to give up two of its main three survivability mechanics, without DrD it loses all the Evade potential and high mobility from a dash, without SB it loses its high mobility vertical and horizontal, if it doesn’t take D/P it loses its High stealth access, You are basing a combo that can only be done once every minute on baseless numbers…..

Again SR will not break a Rifle on Thief especially since Any good player can force reveal a Thief in SR with any number of Cc affects or Reveal skills.

And yes Druid burst with LB can easily 100-0 anyone from Stealth if built for it between The roots they can apply and pressure from their Rapid Fire and their main pets with Knockdowns and other CCs. It’s quite easy to do especially if you get the jump on someone. And they don’t have to sacrifice mobility or stealth access to do any of it.

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Posted by: Svarty.8019

Svarty.8019

Again SR will not break a Rifle on Thief especially since Any good player can force reveal a Thief in SR with any number of Cc affects or Reveal skills.

It’s telling, in itself, that you feel a need to churn out such a high volume of posts claiming that the thief is actually vulnerable after all. That says everything really.

Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.

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Posted by: Sly.9518

Sly.9518

Again SR will not break a Rifle on Thief especially since Any good player can force reveal a Thief in SR with any number of Cc affects or Reveal skills.

It’s telling, in itself, that you feel a need to churn out such a high volume of posts claiming that the thief is actually vulnerable after all. That says everything really.

Says the person that every other post claims Thief OP, so much so Mods start moving your disgruntled posts about the game in general to the Teef subforum…. right….

Again people are making baseless assumptions on a weapon that’s not even released claiming it is OP with no proof, and the only facts available are Theif will lose 2 of its 3 main defenses if it uses Rifle no matter what, and people are trying to claim it will be op because of One highly underpowered Skill on a 1 min CD lol that shows exactly where the Thief is for 4 seconds with a giant House over its head that will self reveal if Thief is pressure out of it for any reason…… just saying

(edited by Sly.9518)

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Posted by: Rin.1046

Rin.1046

I’m looking forward to a new ranged option, though I am worried what type of weapon it will be. If it is a sniper type weapon it will be great to have a long ranged option, but at the same time I will be disappointed if it is another single target weapon like PP. For me personally, I would like another multi target ranged weapon. SB is good functionally, but I personally do not enjoy its playstyle as much as PP. PP is more fun to use, but lacks the utility of the SB. It would be great to have a ranged weapon that is somewhere in between. Decent multi target capabilities at long range with good utility.

We already have a sniper type rifle on Warrior and a shotgun type rifle on Engineer, so I am not sure what the Thief’s rifle could be. Maybe some kind of rapid fire assault rifle? But then will it just end up too similar in playstyle to PP?

Maybe, if it is a rapid fire assault rifle, it could focus more on multi target attacks rather than single target like PP. It could be a spray and prey weapon, firing bursts to hit 3 or more targets in a cone. But then, if the leaked info is true, and it is called deadeye, a more accurate sniper type rifle would fit that name better.

The other thing is, I really love the playstyle of the daredevil staff, so unless the rifle elite spec has a really fun playstyle, it will probably just end up as an occasional thing I jump on when I fancy something different. What would be great, is if (after we have a few elite specs released) I could equip two elite specs at a time. Then I could have a daredevil staff for close combat and deadeye rifle for ranged. That would be pretty awesome, but unlikely to happen. Balancing that would be very difficult.

To be honest, there just isn’t enough information available yet for me to make any kind of decision or give any real feeling on it. I’m looking forward to seeing what it will be like though. I think I am just looking forward to having more options to try out and build around more than anything

Simplicity is complex.

Good feedback is key to getting the developers to listen to you.