Guild Wars 2

Disclaimer – I’m not saying Thieves need a Rifle weapon set, nor am I saying that I particularly want a Rifle weapon set, this thread is to create a discussion about -IF- Theives would get the Rifle

What role would the weapon fit?

• 1200 Range Weapon (Outside the single skill, Cluster Bomb)
• Purely Direct Damage ranged weapon (Leaving Pistols to become more Condition/up close based and Shortbow to continue it’s reign as highly Utility)
• Pure single target damage (Similar to Dagger main hand)

1. - Deals damage and provides 1 stack of Vulnerability for 5 seconds – 3/4 Cast – 350 Damage.
2. Stealth – Deals high damage and provides 5 stacks of Vulnerability for 5 seconds – 3/4 cast – 700 Damage.
3. - Minor damage and 3 seconds of cripple – 3/4 cast – 300 damage – 3 initiative.
4. - Longshot – Deals damage proportionate to distance – 1 1/2 cast – (0.5 * distance) damage – 5 initiative.
5. - Infiltrator’s Retreat – Fire off a Blinding shot dealing minimal damage and shadow stepping backwards – 0.5 cast – 100 damage – 5 second Blind – 900 range Shadow Step – 4 initiative.
6. - Shadow Guise – Provides 5 seconds of camouflage. If broken by movement provides 1 second of stealth. If broken by knockbacks causes revealed. – 6 initiative.

Yes, I named them backwards (Also limited creativity when it comes to naming various ways of shooting bullets)

Alternatively:
Pistol Mastery – Deal an additional 10% damage with Pistols. Pistol range is increased by 33%.
Ricochet – Pistol shots have an additional 75% chance to bounce to an additional target, 50% chance to bounce to a third target and 25% chance to bounce to a fourth target.
Ankle Shots – Body Shot now also applies Cripple for 3 seconds.

Massively improve Pistol traits to make up for lack of mobility, utility and defence that is commonly found on Pistol based builds.

I’m not saying you do, but why do lots of people keep asking for long range pew pew pew with a thief? I mean, by default without any utilities or weapon skills, we already get a 900 range instant shadowstep. A lot of the more mobile thief builds fly around the battle like nobody’s business, traversing massive distances in small periods of time.

Anyways, these rifle skills seem to be next to useless as a whole. It seems to be just a troll weapon where the thief uses infiltrator’s retreat and spams long range skills. IF thieves were to get a rifle, I hope hammers and greatswords also come to us -.-. Not much point in discussing it.

Turbo Whale.1738:

I’m not saying you do, but why do lots of people keep asking for long range pew pew pew with a thief?

Because, being the only class in the game that doesn’t have a weapon set that reaches the 1200 range (Cluster Bomb can hit that far, but due to the travel time and the fact it’s a single skill it’s quite lackluster) really limits effectiveness in things such as:

• World Events – Where to be in 900 range is much more dangerous than at 1200 range (For a class with limited defence this is a problem)

• World vs World – Where being within 900 range to be able to hit up on walls is practically suicide (Not the mention the issue of being obstructed which occurs from the angle of shots fired from that distance). Also where not being able to attack anyone from the top of a wall (As everyone else will be 1200 range away) makes you literally useless.

I mean, by default without any utilities or weapon skills, we already get a 900 range instant shadowstep. A lot of the more mobile thief builds fly around the battle like nobody’s business, traversing massive distances in small periods of time.

So do other characters, whom also have 1200 range or higher on abilities. For example: A warrior with rifle has 1200 range (1500 with kill shot) and can swap to a Greatsword and use Rush (1200 Range) > Whirlwind Attack (450 range) > Bull’s Charge (600 range) and move over 2250 range in a few seconds, with little to no impact on damage capabilities (Infiltrator’s Shot being the best spammable mobility move but costing half the thieves base initiative per cast)

Anyways, these rifle skills seem to be next to useless as a whole. It seems to be just a troll weapon where the thief uses infiltrator’s retreat and spams long range skills.

The idea is to do effective long range damage. Managing distance (Also initiative if using the shadowstep, Stealth attacks and such) to try and maximise damage. Unlike what is currently achievable with the already available ranged weapons which do their best damage when in melee range (SB – Cluster Bomb shotgunning. Pistols – P/D Bleed spamming)

Whilst also keeping all abilities useful, and necessary for different situations (Cripple to prevent targets closing the gap, long range shot that only does good damage when at range, shadow step to open a gap and thematic stealth ability that limits kiting for a long duration stealth or can be used as a short duration stealth on the move)

Although I would love to get a riffle and play sniper with my thief, I dont think a stealth/mobility class will ever get a long-range direct-dmg weapon.

And another thread made by someone who’s played/watched too much <insert franchise here>.

It’s not going to happen as it gets in conflict with the very nature of the Thief. Not even Engies will be permitted to have that.

Nothing to see here, time to move on.

MrForz.1953:

And another thread made by someone who’s played/watched too much <insert franchise here>.

Oh, and the franchise I’m basing this on is…

…Oh wait, that’s right I wasn’t basing this off any franchise be it a game or a film/tv programme/internet web series.

It’s based entirely off of “What if?” since I remember people mentioning Rifle’s for Thieves at some point and wanted to put my take on it, including “Why would it be put in?” and also “What role would it realistically take”

It’s not going to happen as it gets in conflict with the very nature of the Thief. Not even Engies will be permitted to have that.

Engies have a 1000 range rifle (Can be traited to 1200 range). Their rifle is designed more as a “Shotgun” rather than a rifle, using short range blasts (Blunderbuss, Overcharged Shot and Jump Shot all being lots of firepower into a short range blast)

The only other Rifle set in the game belongs to Warriors, whom use it as a ranged weapon that provides high burst damage (Kill Shot and Volley both do more damage than a fully traited Backstab that’s using 20 Might stacks and Assassin’s Signet)

Why Thieves can’t use a weapon set that’s more “Long Range Assassin” I don’t know…

Sword plays more towards Trickster/Duelist than a Thief, Daggers play a lot like Assassins in most specs, Pistols play as Assassin/Gunslinger (P/D and P/P respectively) and Shortbow plays more around a Trickster than a Thief.

Really the name “Thief” is misleading, considering that only one ability is based around actually stealing things, which if you’ve ever tried making a build focused around that you’ll find out how awful it is (Lots of traits can be used, but then only come into effect once per ~30 seconds even when fully traited, which makes them very ineffective to have as the focus of a build)

Thing is, Thief IS Assassin. In fact, Assassin’s natural affiliation with Cantha is what eventually influenced the decision to implement a shoddy new profession mechanic ie. Steal to differentiate the two and prevent a lore meltdown. Don’t believe me? Check the trait lines. They are all direct rips from GW1 A/x / x/A skill lines.

Rifle fits perfectly fine, as long as it has a reason to exist in the Thief arsenal.

Taril.8619:

snip

Wowowow, calm down. The name Thief is designed for the relation to thrill, mid-close range, in-combat decisions, initiative, most of the time, being in the middle of the mud, troubles. All the examples you’ve shown respect that. Now tell me how the hell you’re going to implant that rifle. It has no reason to be there, it’s just that you crave being a long range invisible assassin. Make a Warrior.

And if you really can’t accept that, well, you can still dream about it. I’m leaving you to that. Good Journey.

MrForz.1953:

long range invisible assassin. Make a Warrior.

Are you seriously suggesting that a Rifle warrior is like a long range invisible assassin? Surely, sir, you are not!

Either way, I don’t have strong opinion on Thief with rifle. Though in my opinion the Rifle itself is (quite contrarily to real world) the weakest in-game weapon that, sadly, does not seem intended to ever be used as a main weapon.

MrForz.1953:

The name Thief is designed for the relation to thrill, mid-close range, in-combat decisions, initiative, most of the time, being in the middle of the mud, troubles. All the examples you’ve shown respect that.

The examples I provided also showed that even though the class is called “Thief” that the weapons that are used are representative of many different “Rogue” archetypes and the more popular builds utilize them as more of an “Assassin” than a “Thief” to get quick and efficient kills with Dagger/X and Pistol/Dagger with the exception of Sword builds that are more “Trickster”-like using deception and mobility to out-maneuver an opponent.

The design of the Thief is focused around Hit and Run tactics that utilise Burst damage and High mobility to be able to get through high defences of a Bunker build and to be able to gain sustain damage through multiple bursts with survivability through getting out of the fight to recoup and then go back in for more burst.

I believe a single target ranged weapon set focused around dealing burst damage with mobility to help ensure saftey and damage output fits into that design.

it’s just that you crave being a long range invisible assassin.

Taril.8619:

Disclaimer – I’m not saying Thieves need a Rifle weapon set, nor am I saying that I particularly want a Rifle weapon set

Literally the first line of my OP states that I wasn’t actively hoping for the Rifle to come to thieves, as such it did allow me to have an objective viewpoint over possible designs and applications of the weapon set (Unlike a lot of suggestions whom custom tailor skill sets to fit in perfectly with their particular build/playstyle)

Why did I do this if I wasn’t dead-set on getting the weapon set? Because I get bored start thinking about random things, including weapon sets/classes/items for various games. This time it was Rifles for Thieves, which after thought I decided it could play off the “Assassin” aspect of Thieves (Just like a recent suggestion for Staves for Thieves plays towards the “Thief-Acrobat” aspect of Thieves)

I want Hammer Thief so i can repay all the warriors and guardians that knockback me.

Honestly, I’d much rather a staff or scepter and focus and turn the thief into a mage assassin! 900 range spells with some water fields that chill, a ranged root, some insane single target ranged damage etc.

One of the funnest classes in any mmo I ever played was the Mage Assassin in Shadowbane. I’ve really missed it.

I’ve always wanted to see rifles for Thieves. It’d fill a pretty easy niche as long range single target burst.
Pistols are mid-range sustained damage, and shortbows are long range AoE condition damage.
It’d be really fun to have a gunslinger Thief that uses a rifle to snipe people, and switches pistols when people get closer.

ZenonSeth.5739:

Are you seriously suggesting that a Rifle warrior is like a long range invisible assassin? Surely, sir, you are not!

No, but it has a rifle, and long range abilities, if ou want a long range invisible assassin you’re in the wrong game.

If the Thieves would get a rifle it would have something to do with mobility and sustained damage, nothing more. Besides, even there it would be lame, the only thing that prevented the Pistol Thieves from infesting the PvP grounds was the ridiculously low damage it dealt, + the fact that it was bleed only which was really easily removable.

MrForz.1953:

[snip]
No, but it has a rifle, and long range abilities, if ou [sic] want a long range invisible assassin you’re in the wrong game.

Unless of course they introduce the Commando class, with access to camouflage and sniper rifles. Note that both mechanics already exist in-game: Stealth AND Sniper Rifles, though the sniper rifles are fixed stationaries. Hmm, perhaps Sniper Rifle would be a stationary Elite for Commando.

I must thank you sir, I’m starting a new thread to lobby for the Commando class, as a result of this discussion! Good day!

MrForz.1953:

ZenonSeth.5739:

Are you seriously suggesting that a Rifle warrior is like a long range invisible assassin? Surely, sir, you are not!

No, but it has a rifle, and long range abilities, if ou want a long range invisible assassin you’re in the wrong game.

If the Thieves would get a rifle it would have something to do with mobility and sustained damage, nothing more. Besides, even there it would be lame, the only thing that prevented the Pistol Thieves from infesting the PvP grounds was the ridiculously low damage it dealt, + the fact that it was bleed only which was really easily removable.

Your psychic powers intrigue me.

I like the idea of hit and run. Say, that sniper that you just can’t seem to get. The rifle should be a 1200, slow shooting by potentially deadly weapon. It should not, however, get a one shot insta win everytime button. It should instead be very situational. By that I mean, giving the rifle more damage if you shoot from behind, or hitting an opponent out of combat. It should be the “surprise” type of weapon. It should not be a viable weapon in combat. I just don’t picture a thief like that. What would really be cool is a 100% damage boost from behind on a certain skill(That uses a cooldown, not initiative) with a 3s casting time and damage similar to a backstab if hit from behind. If hit in the front, minimal damage would be done. If hit in the back, we’re looking at 6-7K for clothies with minimal toughness.

If the damage to backstab were to be nerfed, I think this is a great idea to help compensate.