Guild Wars 2

So the rumor is that thief is getting the rifle for their elite spec. Anyone else NOT excited about this?

they said slow range weapon
thief and slow dont work so well…:D

They’re not seriously considering another expansion now, are they? It’s only been a year since the last one, and it’s taken this long to fins some semblance of balance.

On topic: the positive part of getting rifle as an elite spec is that they can’t nerf something we already have in order to force us to buy it back. Yes, I am still bitter about that.

I asume this will be something to replace shortbow or p/p?

messiah.1908:

they said slow range weapon
thief and slow dont work so well…:D

Oh great. SB is already slow!

I’d rather see main hand Sword or GS.

Maybe with rifle we’ll get a new stealth mechanic, i.e. Standing in place stealths you permanent until you move.

Jugglemonkey.8741:

They’re not seriously considering another expansion now, are they? It’s only been a year since the last one, and it’s taken this long to fins some semblance of balance.

On topic: the positive part of getting rifle as an elite spec is that they can’t nerf something we already have in order to force us to buy it back. Yes, I am still bitter about that.

You do know they’ve been working on a new expansion for awhile now, right?

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

messiah.1908:

they said slow range weapon
thief and slow dont work so well…:D

Oh great. SB is already slow!

I’d rather see main hand Sword or GS.

Maybe with rifle we’ll get a new stealth mechanic, i.e. Standing in place stealths you permanent until you move.

Jugglemonkey.8741:

They’re not seriously considering another expansion now, are they? It’s only been a year since the last one, and it’s taken this long to fins some semblance of balance.

On topic: the positive part of getting rifle as an elite spec is that they can’t nerf something we already have in order to force us to buy it back. Yes, I am still bitter about that.

You do know they’ve been working on a new expansion for awhile now, right?

We have main hand sword already……

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

So the rumor is that thief is getting the rifle for their elite spec. Anyone else NOT excited about this?

Not in the slightest.

Thief has tones of different burst specs.
Warrior rifle is as bursty as it comes.

Riffle on Thief can only be a worse version of warrior for power, or different in a condi version.

In all honestly thief really lacks group support. I’d be a lot happier if we got something like focus, and some party support other than stealth, which were not even good at for groups compared to other classes.

It would be nice to have Rifle but is by no means needed, having rifle could open up more for a P/D power Builds with rifle off set for even superior kiting ability.

I would love to try it out since Thief is the only class without a 1200 range weapon, but I would rather see torch off hand which could provide group utility or aoe Condi damage, or even Sword off hand could be fun provide more of a control option

messiah.1908:

they said slow range weapon
thief and slow dont work so well…:D

position and sniping out of invisibility, move stealth n shoot again.

Meanwhile Anet adds more aoe/spam cleaves that makes this thing unplayable/ not necessary in pvp,

I dont mind its a slow weapon as long as its a kill shot weapon or cond weapon from 1200 range.

If they copy-pasted my idea, that’s about the only way it’ll work.

But even that’s pretty much unusable unless they revert a substantial amount of the recent changes.

A burst sniper is horrible by design and is totally unwanted. from both the perspective of it not being fun to play against and not very useful to the thief in general.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

They’re not seriously considering another expansion now, are they? It’s only been a year since the last one, and it’s taken this long to fins some semblance of balance.

On topic: the positive part of getting rifle as an elite spec is that they can’t nerf something we already have in order to force us to buy it back. Yes, I am still bitter about that.

You do know they’ve been working on a new expansion for awhile now, right?

I didn’t know, but I’m usually out of the loop. Quite honestly, I’d rather they just introduced new weapons, no elite specs, and then focussed on more like LS or WvW/PvE skill splits. Elite specs are probably the worst thing to happen to the game imo.

I want the source… even if it’s a rumor. I want the link.

Kocoff.7582:

I want the source… even if it’s a rumor. I want the link.

Also, this.

No reason to consider it true until evidence is provided. The “they said” quotation from messiah is curious, though.

DeceiverX.8361:

Kocoff.7582:

I want the source… even if it’s a rumor. I want the link.

Also, this.

No reason to consider it true until evidence is provided. The “they said” quotation from messiah is curious, though.

It’s posted from the MysteriousEx on Reddit who leaked the Eureka and a a few other spot on leaks iirc.

I’d rather have pistol/bow AA buffed moar and Pistol 2 and Pistol/Dagger 3 removed and replaced with better skillz than have another gun…

Theres something you guys aren’t getting, thief doesn’t need rifle, but is the rifle who needs some love, engi hammer kicked rifle engi from his beloved daddy, and warrior rifle its not so popular to play at all, rangers could give love to rifle, but rangers don’t have plans in getting another ranged weapon at all, thiefs are the most logical class to get rifle.

With only 2 classes having access to rifle, definitely someone will have to recieve rifle in the next specialization lineup, and all the eyes are on thief.

Ivantreil.3092:

Theres something you guys aren’t getting, thief doesn’t need rifle, but is the rifle who needs some love, engi hammer kicked rifle engi from his beloved daddy, and warrior rifle its not so popular to play at all, rangers could give love to rifle, but rangers don’t have plans in getting another ranged weapon at all, thiefs are the most logical class to get rifle.

With only 2 classes having access to rifle, definitely someone will have to recieve rifle in the next specialization lineup, and all the eyes are on thief.

After Anet needed Thief over the years Thief has had no viable ranged weapons we need a rifle or a longbow something with 1200 range, Thief is the only class without a 1200 range weapon. rifle would make the most sense it would open up another way to play thief. Just because a different class needs some polishing on a weapon doesn’t negate the fact that Thief needs a viable long range weapon.

I’m already feeling the rage from a rifle thief. Pew pew massive crits from range and all that stealth and gap creation you can do, ouch.
Be a real good opportunity for anet to bring a new dimension to thief, if your gonna range you forfeit your slippery ness.

Napo.1230:

I’m already feeling the rage from a rifle thief. Pew pew massive crits from range and all that stealth and gap creation you can do, ouch.
Be a real good opportunity for anet to bring a new dimension to thief, if your gonna range you forfeit your slippery ness.

How would thief ever forfeit that, though? Our class mechanic, our utilities, hell, even a lot of weapon skills will always remain slippery. Unless they add something like ‘with this elite you can no longer shadowstep’, thieves will Always be slippery. That’s without even talking about stealth. For sure, the rifle won’t get an option to enter stealth by itself. If it does, the damage will be pathetic to compensate.

I actually like the idea of rifle for thief.

sounds like a sniper … would be awesome but ranting is guaranteed …

Eval.2371:

In all honestly thief really lacks group support. I’d be a lot happier if we got something like focus, and some party support other than stealth, which were not even good at for groups compared to other classes.

Anyone automatically assume “Sniper” for some reason. What about “Combat medic” or “Guerilla squad leader”? It is possible that rifle thief will be a support spec. Something in terms of:
- “Marked target” (unique debuff that increases incoming damage on top of vulnerability);
- Combo fields on utility skills. Something like “Fortified positions” (stability + something);
- Lots of CC, blast finishers etc;
- Maybe even shouts. “Get To The Choppa!” (swiftness + fury).
Could be fun.

Cygnus.6903:

How would thief ever forfeit that, though? Our class mechanic, our utilities, hell, even a lot of weapon skills will always remain slippery. Unless they add something like ‘with this elite you can no longer shadowstep’, thieves will Always be slippery. That’s without even talking about stealth. For sure, the rifle won’t get an option to enter stealth by itself. If it does, the damage will be pathetic to compensate.

I actually like the idea of rifle for thief.

I do too. One easy way to do it as well, which is already in the game (though was dropped, but the files are still there) is camouflage. It’s stealth that lasts a long time so long as you don’t move; I could see, like, a #4 skill or a particular trait do that, maybe giving you up to 15 seconds of camouflage for an ambush.

the rumor posted on reddit. about future elite and weapons for each class

sniper is good but they sound like thief should stand in place and charge it shoot so not like unload spamming rather positioning , stealth and boom.
so if the dmg will be high ppl will qq and we get nerf to dmg than noone will use it.
if we get more sustain dmg thieves wont use it.
dont forget already many classes have block and reflect

i really love to see sinper with a thief but also who can handle the block/reflect

Napo.1230:

I’m already feeling the rage from a rifle thief. Pew pew massive crits from range and all that stealth and gap creation you can do, ouch.
Be a real good opportunity for anet to bring a new dimension to thief, if your gonna range you forfeit your slippery ness.

Why would thief have to lose their mobility and stealth? Druid has long range with very easy low cd Stealth with high mobility, and burst.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Napo.1230:

I’m already feeling the rage from a rifle thief. Pew pew massive crits from range and all that stealth and gap creation you can do, ouch.
Be a real good opportunity for anet to bring a new dimension to thief, if your gonna range you forfeit your slippery ness.

Why would thief have to lose their mobility and stealth? Druid has long range with very easy low cd Stealth with high mobility, and burst.

I didn’t say they have to lose it I said anet could make it interesting and bring in a new mechanic that would mean you can’t spec for that if you want to range people with your rifle but you get x in its place. We all no they won’t so don’t worry.

Well, who said rifle had to be stealth and positioning only, it could have a hit & vault skill which would fit very well with thiefs theme, or a death mark skill where it leaves an enemy target vulneraqble for your allies to attack.

Cygnus.6903:

Napo.1230:

I’m already feeling the rage from a rifle thief. Pew pew massive crits from range and all that stealth and gap creation you can do, ouch.
Be a real good opportunity for anet to bring a new dimension to thief, if your gonna range you forfeit your slippery ness.

How would thief ever forfeit that, though? Our class mechanic, our utilities, hell, even a lot of weapon skills will always remain slippery. Unless they add something like ‘with this elite you can no longer shadowstep’, thieves will Always be slippery. That’s without even talking about stealth. For sure, the rifle won’t get an option to enter stealth by itself. If it does, the damage will be pathetic to compensate.

I actually like the idea of rifle for thief.

Even if the rifle doesn’t have stealth so it does good damage, there’s trapper runes and stealth utilities to consider. I’m pretty sure SA is going to get reworked/nerfed to the floor to make way for the elite spec, simply because there’s not many more things you can add to thief while keeping it thiefy.

That said, 1200 range does sound nice. Although they could just as easily make pistols 1200 range when traited again, and not bother with the spec at all lol

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Cygnus.6903:

Napo.1230:

I’m already feeling the rage from a rifle thief. Pew pew massive crits from range and all that stealth and gap creation you can do, ouch.
Be a real good opportunity for anet to bring a new dimension to thief, if your gonna range you forfeit your slippery ness.

How would thief ever forfeit that, though? Our class mechanic, our utilities, hell, even a lot of weapon skills will always remain slippery. Unless they add something like ‘with this elite you can no longer shadowstep’, thieves will Always be slippery. That’s without even talking about stealth. For sure, the rifle won’t get an option to enter stealth by itself. If it does, the damage will be pathetic to compensate.

I actually like the idea of rifle for thief.

Even if the rifle doesn’t have stealth so it does good damage, there’s trapper runes and stealth utilities to consider. I’m pretty sure SA is going to get reworked/nerfed to the floor to make way for the elite spec, simply because there’s not many more things you can add to thief while keeping it thiefy.

That said, 1200 range does sound nice. Although they could just as easily make pistols 1200 range when traited again, and not bother with the spec at all lol

If they need another Trailine and try to repackage it as an Elite Spec I am pretty sure would be my last straw with the dev team, and there are a few things they can do to make and elite spec and keep the thief feel but ES are supposed to be a different way to play a class not highly improve an aspect of the original class.

i assume if they will give rifle with sniper trait line
1. we will see ricochet back
2. 1200 range or even 1500 like ranger if it will be slow (ie no swiftness)
3. blind
4. stealth ability with 1 skill or with new utilities
5. maybe when stealth for reposition we will get superspeed (like trapper rune)

dont forget DD trait gave many things like perma swiftness, dmg boost, endurance gain cure inhibiting condition and another dodge
SA trait line focus on 1 sec longer stealth and blind so the new trait line should give something else for the thieves.

DA will be must with immobilize and dmg boost
so we left with SA or TR
TR give basically 3 initiative and all the rest is not that important for a SNIPER

what sniper thief needs: initiative management, super speed , block abilities, vulnerability, cripple, poison, fury, might, smoke field to sit on, shadowstep skill

warrior and engi rifle dont have shadow step skill. so like SB skill IA a skill which teleport you away from your enemy while doing smoke field or dmg so you get stealth
if we have another teleport skill maybe SB wont be so needed any more.

all the other skill are the same as warrior or engi. immobilize, evade, vulnerability, and cc

think what sniper has as a theme. low armor, low ammunition, very high dmg which can even kill if you head shot, traps, and stealth as every shot counts and single target unless you use unique ammunition…

so low initiatives
high dmg with buff or vulnerability
unblockable shots with high cost of initiative
stealth ability
shadow step ability to get to higher ground

so maybe stance from warrior or gadgets from engi or survival from ranger
shout too noisy from sniper, turrets will reveal thief location…

to those saying 1200 range, that’s actually pretty low, given that rangers can hit out to about 1800. that’d make 1500 or even 1800 a good range for a marksman type setup. something to keep in mind.

As for weapon skills, what about a charge mechanic? you hold down a button and for every half second that passes, you spend one initiative on the skill. Final damage is based on how many initiative were spent.

Am I the only one less hoping for a Sniper spec, and more of a spec focusing more on Shadow Magic? It’d be interesting to see Thief utilizing something like, say… Scepter.

Though it would be nice to have Rifle or Longbow, considering it’d be great to have something with range that isn’t 900 or less. Being out ranged sucks.

I wanted gs, to be a ninja :’c

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Cygnus.6903:

Napo.1230:

I’m already feeling the rage from a rifle thief. Pew pew massive crits from range and all that stealth and gap creation you can do, ouch.
Be a real good opportunity for anet to bring a new dimension to thief, if your gonna range you forfeit your slippery ness.

How would thief ever forfeit that, though? Our class mechanic, our utilities, hell, even a lot of weapon skills will always remain slippery. Unless they add something like ‘with this elite you can no longer shadowstep’, thieves will Always be slippery. That’s without even talking about stealth. For sure, the rifle won’t get an option to enter stealth by itself. If it does, the damage will be pathetic to compensate.

I actually like the idea of rifle for thief.

Even if the rifle doesn’t have stealth so it does good damage, there’s trapper runes and stealth utilities to consider. I’m pretty sure SA is going to get reworked/nerfed to the floor to make way for the elite spec, simply because there’s not many more things you can add to thief while keeping it thiefy.

That said, 1200 range does sound nice. Although they could just as easily make pistols 1200 range when traited again, and not bother with the spec at all lol

If they need another Trailine and try to repackage it as an Elite Spec I am pretty sure would be my last straw with the dev team, and there are a few things they can do to make and elite spec and keep the thief feel but ES are supposed to be a different way to play a class not highly improve an aspect of the original class.

I agree with you completely, although you’ll forgive me for being sceptical after what happened to acro just before HoT dropped. I’d love to be wrong about this, but I’m not hopeful.

Also: the Devs were very tight lipped about why they introduced the icd for sneak attacks, and the assumption that it was because of the introduction of rending shade is more or less based on the timing of the changes. That’s something else that makes me think that stealth/SA is going to get a work over.

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Cygnus.6903:

Napo.1230:

I’m already feeling the rage from a rifle thief. Pew pew massive crits from range and all that stealth and gap creation you can do, ouch.
Be a real good opportunity for anet to bring a new dimension to thief, if your gonna range you forfeit your slippery ness.

How would thief ever forfeit that, though? Our class mechanic, our utilities, hell, even a lot of weapon skills will always remain slippery. Unless they add something like ‘with this elite you can no longer shadowstep’, thieves will Always be slippery. That’s without even talking about stealth. For sure, the rifle won’t get an option to enter stealth by itself. If it does, the damage will be pathetic to compensate.

I actually like the idea of rifle for thief.

Even if the rifle doesn’t have stealth so it does good damage, there’s trapper runes and stealth utilities to consider. I’m pretty sure SA is going to get reworked/nerfed to the floor to make way for the elite spec, simply because there’s not many more things you can add to thief while keeping it thiefy.

That said, 1200 range does sound nice. Although they could just as easily make pistols 1200 range when traited again, and not bother with the spec at all lol

Like I said, the only way to provide thief with a form of 1200 ranged damage that’s even remotely balanced in small-scale is what I proposed via the Deadeye.

If they offer any amount of ranged burst and stealth, it’s pretty much GG for the class since it’ll have to be nerfed so grossly it’ll be unplayable.

General damage/sustained DPS and mobility is one thing (like berserker druid). Damage, mobility, stealth, and burst damage while maintaining those advantages is a whole other beast.

Oaahbm.7046:

Eval.2371:

In all honestly thief really lacks group support. I’d be a lot happier if we got something like focus, and some party support other than stealth, which were not even good at for groups compared to other classes.

Anyone automatically assume “Sniper” for some reason. What about “Combat medic” or “Guerilla squad leader”? It is possible that rifle thief will be a support spec. Something in terms of:
- “Marked target” (unique debuff that increases incoming damage on top of vulnerability);
- Combo fields on utility skills. Something like “Fortified positions” (stability + something);
- Lots of CC, blast finishers etc;
- Maybe even shouts. “Get To The Choppa!” (swiftness + fury).
Could be fun.

Totally agree that it could become a support spec. I really doubt that they will take that kinda of direction.

DeceiverX.8361:

Like I said, the only way to provide thief with a form of 1200 ranged damage that’s even remotely balanced in small-scale is what I proposed via the Deadeye.

Disagree there are multiple different directions they could go but I do agree that with the following:

DeceiverX.8361:

If they offer any amount of ranged burst and stealth, it’s pretty much GG for the class since it’ll have to be nerfed so grossly it’ll be unplayable.

Which is why I am afraid of rifle spec, anet will try to appease the masses creating an unbalanced low counter play stealth sniper. Which in turn will have to be gutted.

I did say damage. If they want to provide 1200 range support, that’s a whole different can of worms.

They won’t nerf elites or their weapons. The entire concept of a sniper is so flawed it’d either be grossly OP or horrible. There’s no in-between. They’d more likely compensate by removing the damage and other such problematic elements from the core profession, instead.

Right now they have a form of Sniper running around, in the form of Druid 1200-1500 range low cd reliable stealth can be built for burst or sustain and has mobility that almost rivals Thief mobility, and so it isn’t an unheard of concept, it will just cause Thief to get nerfed hard yet again at a core level.

DeceiverX.8361:

I did say damage. If they want to provide 1200 range support, that’s a whole different can of worms.

They won’t nerf elites or their weapons. The entire concept of a sniper is so flawed it’d either be grossly OP or horrible. There’s no in-between. They’d more likely compensate by removing the damage and other such problematic elements from the core profession, instead.

they key word is SLOW high dmg. so maybe you can burst from range but only once. thus you will have to use your mobility and stealth to go someplace else.
i dont see how it can replace the meta D/P as even p/p with more burst cant with all the block and reflect around…

so w8 and see

Doggie.3184:

I’d rather have pistol/bow AA buffed moar and Pistol 2 and Pistol/Dagger 3 removed and replaced with better skillz than have another gun…

I would hope that they take a look at combinations like p/d and d/d offering just as good stealth options but still keep the uniqueness of the setups. Off hand dagger 4 is probably the most unused weapon skill in this game. My suggestion would be for d/d offhand #4 make it kind of like a shadow form from original guild wars except make it use initiative per second/and on being hit so its not way too OP but gives utility for stealth like d/p does making both still useful and then for p/d give it a re-work where it works kind of like how sword 2 and 3 work except a condi method where when you shadow step to target you begin hitting for torment damage that drains initiative per second or until you shadow step back.

That is my view on it since I want to see more unique gameplay other than just playing d/p shortbow all the time.

messiah.1908:

DeceiverX.8361:

I did say damage. If they want to provide 1200 range support, that’s a whole different can of worms.

They won’t nerf elites or their weapons. The entire concept of a sniper is so flawed it’d either be grossly OP or horrible. There’s no in-between. They’d more likely compensate by removing the damage and other such problematic elements from the core profession, instead.

they key word is SLOW high dmg. so maybe you can burst from range but only once. thus you will have to use your mobility and stealth to go someplace else.
i dont see how it can replace the meta D/P as even p/p with more burst cant with all the block and reflect around…

so w8 and see

Here’s the thing.

Slow damage sources are very difficult to give fair coefficients to. This is even moreso apparent on the thief, where we have so much scaling damage potential. Trait selection alone can cause Backstab values to differ by margins of over 10k damage. And that’s just the difference, on a skill that has lower coefficients than most signature moves that came with HoT. Who knows about next expansion.

Reaper GSAA3 and Gravedigger hit for huge damage, and are awful for PvP environments. The damage isn’t bursty enough for its slow speed to make it really worth trying to get those hits. If the same is true about how the rifle would be, either it’d just not do enough damage and not be usable, or it’d have substantial damage and would be absolutely broken. I can tell you now, if given Shadow Shot’s damage on a skill at 1200 range, I could beat literally any build in the game using rifle, even if it costed 6 initiative to use. There’s so much reset and mobility potential on the thief from stealth alone that any such intermittent burst would be crazy for the amount of sustain offered

Back when shortbow was 1200 range, it was insanely strong, despite having horrible damage. Very easy to win fights without ever taking a hit.

If there’s sniping with stealth, then we just have ranged backstab/stealth gunflame. And honestly, that’s not fun for anybody to play against, and it takes elements away from the core thief. It also does the whole daredevil thing all over again of pointless powercreep and massively reducing the skill floor of the profession to a point where there becomes very little distinction in it of itself.

Without ensuring tradeoffs, the class and whole game just turns into a faceroll experience. I’d rather try and promote having that kind of stuff not happening.

I like Pistol 3 as it is. You know, as someone who actually uses and plays P/D.

:p

DeceiverX.8361:

messiah.1908:

DeceiverX.8361:

I did say damage. If they want to provide 1200 range support, that’s a whole different can of worms.

They won’t nerf elites or their weapons. The entire concept of a sniper is so flawed it’d either be grossly OP or horrible. There’s no in-between. They’d more likely compensate by removing the damage and other such problematic elements from the core profession, instead.

they key word is SLOW high dmg. so maybe you can burst from range but only once. thus you will have to use your mobility and stealth to go someplace else.
i dont see how it can replace the meta D/P as even p/p with more burst cant with all the block and reflect around…

so w8 and see

Here’s the thing.

Slow damage sources are very difficult to give fair coefficients to. This is even moreso apparent on the thief, where we have so much scaling damage potential. Trait selection alone can cause Backstab values to differ by margins of over 10k damage. And that’s just the difference, on a skill that has lower coefficients than most signature moves that came with HoT. Who knows about next expansion.

Reaper GSAA3 and Gravedigger hit for huge damage, and are awful for PvP environments. The damage isn’t bursty enough for its slow speed to make it really worth trying to get those hits. If the same is true about how the rifle would be, either it’d just not do enough damage and not be usable, or it’d have substantial damage and would be absolutely broken. I can tell you now, if given Shadow Shot’s damage on a skill at 1200 range, I could beat literally any build in the game using rifle, even if it costed 6 initiative to use. There’s so much reset and mobility potential on the thief from stealth alone that any such intermittent burst would be crazy for the amount of sustain offered

Back when shortbow was 1200 range, it was insanely strong, despite having horrible damage. Very easy to win fights without ever taking a hit.

If there’s sniping with stealth, then we just have ranged backstab/stealth gunflame. And honestly, that’s not fun for anybody to play against, and it takes elements away from the core thief. It also does the whole daredevil thing all over again of pointless powercreep and massively reducing the skill floor of the profession to a point where there becomes very little distinction in it of itself.

Without ensuring tradeoffs, the class and whole game just turns into a faceroll experience. I’d rather try and promote having that kind of stuff not happening.

i think it would be like kill shot of the warrior 1.25 sec to do high dmg
imagine 1.25 sec standing in place for a thief….

and not slow animation like the necro GS

sniper as a theme means every shot counts. if you miss you get spotted and 80% get killed… so after you take your 1 shot you have to reposition yourself. you have to be silent, sneaky lay in place for days for the perfect shot. do pee in you pants…. i stop here (i was in the military)

assuming marauder amulet:

blind spot AA – you blind shot the target for 1 sec 1.5k dmg 3/4
pin down – your shot cripple and slow your foe for 4 sec – 4 initiatives – 3k dmg
demoralize shot – evade backward 900 ft – 4 initiatives -1k dmg
smoke support – putting smoke field around the target area which block attacks for 2 sec – 5 initiatives
relocating bullet – shot and shadow step to that location. you are revealed for 1 second s – 6 initiatives
F1 – while not moving you get accuracy stealth and after few sec you can use F2 sniper kill shot . you are revealed after taking the shot
after 1 sec – range 900 2k dmg
after 2 sec – range 1200 4k dmg
after 3 sec – range 1500 8k dmg

Excelsior.

This thread basically makes it clear why I personally would not want it.
The more you scroll down, the bigger the issues are getting.

Some people want it for the range, but why would you pick thief (which is more like, uh, “cloak and dagger” sort of thing) in the first place? I mean, yeah, all people maybe want to be a Swiss pocket knife, but to me it would kill some immersion, even with the sniper theme and whatnot. By design, it seems more like our class is a mix of assassin/ninja/rogue. To be agile, close to our foes (actually very close to them in order to take their stuff with F1) and all, not sniping with a rifle. I found the pistols are already at the edge, since they cause a lot of noise while daggers, swords and arrows are quiet – and fitting the theme of our profession.

How can we be agile and nimble with bulky weapons around us? I know I speak from an aesthetical viewpoint, but game design is much more of throwing skills and abilities at a profession.

The choices of weapons and what this profession is about was the reason for me to pick Thief – and I do not regret it a split second.

Zedek.8932:

By design, it seems more like our class is a mix of assassin/ninja/rogue. To be agile, close to our foes (actually very close to them in order to take their stuff with F1) and all, not sniping with a rifle.

Well, that’s why you’d have an Elite Spec, to give professions a different playstyle.

I don’t mind a rifle, and I’ve thought of some ways they could really have fun with the idea, but I’m still hoping for offhand Focus.

Screw riffles. Give us double torches instead!

messiah.1908:

DeceiverX.8361:

messiah.1908:

DeceiverX.8361:

I did say damage. If they want to provide 1200 range support, that’s a whole different can of worms.

They won’t nerf elites or their weapons. The entire concept of a sniper is so flawed it’d either be grossly OP or horrible. There’s no in-between. They’d more likely compensate by removing the damage and other such problematic elements from the core profession, instead.

they key word is SLOW high dmg. so maybe you can burst from range but only once. thus you will have to use your mobility and stealth to go someplace else.
i dont see how it can replace the meta D/P as even p/p with more burst cant with all the block and reflect around…

so w8 and see

Here’s the thing.

Slow damage sources are very difficult to give fair coefficients to. This is even moreso apparent on the thief, where we have so much scaling damage potential. Trait selection alone can cause Backstab values to differ by margins of over 10k damage. And that’s just the difference, on a skill that has lower coefficients than most signature moves that came with HoT. Who knows about next expansion.

Reaper GSAA3 and Gravedigger hit for huge damage, and are awful for PvP environments. The damage isn’t bursty enough for its slow speed to make it really worth trying to get those hits. If the same is true about how the rifle would be, either it’d just not do enough damage and not be usable, or it’d have substantial damage and would be absolutely broken. I can tell you now, if given Shadow Shot’s damage on a skill at 1200 range, I could beat literally any build in the game using rifle, even if it costed 6 initiative to use. There’s so much reset and mobility potential on the thief from stealth alone that any such intermittent burst would be crazy for the amount of sustain offered

Back when shortbow was 1200 range, it was insanely strong, despite having horrible damage. Very easy to win fights without ever taking a hit.

If there’s sniping with stealth, then we just have ranged backstab/stealth gunflame. And honestly, that’s not fun for anybody to play against, and it takes elements away from the core thief. It also does the whole daredevil thing all over again of pointless powercreep and massively reducing the skill floor of the profession to a point where there becomes very little distinction in it of itself.

Without ensuring tradeoffs, the class and whole game just turns into a faceroll experience. I’d rather try and promote having that kind of stuff not happening.

i think it would be like kill shot of the warrior 1.25 sec to do high dmg
imagine 1.25 sec standing in place for a thief….

and not slow animation like the necro GS

sniper as a theme means every shot counts. if you miss you get spotted and 80% get killed… so after you take your 1 shot you have to reposition yourself. you have to be silent, sneaky lay in place for days for the perfect shot. do pee in you pants…. i stop here (i was in the military)

assuming marauder amulet:

blind spot AA – you blind shot the target for 1 sec 1.5k dmg 3/4
pin down – your shot cripple and slow your foe for 4 sec – 4 initiatives – 3k dmg
demoralize shot – evade backward 900 ft – 4 initiatives -1k dmg
smoke support – putting smoke field around the target area which block attacks for 2 sec – 5 initiatives
relocating bullet – shot and shadow step to that location. you are revealed for 1 second s – 6 initiatives
F1 – while not moving you get accuracy stealth and after few sec you can use F2 sniper kill shot . you are revealed after taking the shot
after 1 sec – range 900 2k dmg
after 2 sec – range 1200 4k dmg
after 3 sec – range 1500 8k dmg

On what trait configuration? Current meta in sPvP? Because arbitrary “feels good” damage numbers on the meta non-optimal-damage amulet mean absolutely nothing on the thief, where the current meta builds don’t even run close to optimal damage output, and long range makes such builds very easy and very safe.

Further, you can’t tie a rifle skill to the class mechanic. What if the thief decides not to use the rifle? He gets a snipe shot nuke coming from… Sword/Dagger?

Further, such damage in sPvP on the existing meta build is astronomical. I could make said spec hit for 30k+ per hit in WvW.

The imbalance on the mechanic itself is also far from the mark; to have any counterplay, it’d require being revealed before dealing the damage. Otherwise one could just stack stealth with D/P or use BP/SR and snipe someone down with an unblockable nuke via BV, all of which having no tell. Being in stealth and bursting from such substantial range with the ability to shadowstep is just too powerful.

DeceiverX.8361:

If they copy-pasted my idea, that’s about the only way it’ll work.

I truly admire your modesty, mate.

Sir Mad.1092:

DeceiverX.8361:

If they copy-pasted my idea, that’s about the only way it’ll work.

I truly admire your modesty, mate.

Ha. Just saying, there are so many arguments which work against the idea of ranged damage, especially burst, on the thief that without serious mathematical and conceptual consideration into making it cohesive with everything about the profession, some facet of the design would be implicitly flawed. These issues have been discussed repeatedly over time.

Even now, my proposal does not work with what is already in the game just based on what changed last patch. My point is that it’ll take that level of consideration to make something balanced, let alone something people would be willing to play.

And I’m going to say it straight: I think I did a better job designing what I proposed than what ANet came up with for the Daredevil and most of what was included in HoT for others’ elite specializations, because there is more substance and consistency in the math for what I offered than what was released with HoT. By many objective means, this is provable.