Guild Wars 2

Ok so I play a Hidden Killer Valkyrie Thief in WvW (and PvE for that matter) and am quite happy with it.

However I’ve never been quite content with my rune-choices and have changed my mind multiple times, only to end up right where I began.

Currently I sit at roughly 18500 HP without stacks, surpassing 22000 HP when fully stacked with Guard Leeching. I think this is a solid amount and I don’t really miss the Precision I’m lacking at “only” 38% Crit-chance.

However Runes are an ongoing conflict.

I started with Scholar Runes but eventually realized that due to my high health, I don’t spend that much time above 90%. All it takes is 2000 damage and the buff is gone. This can happen quite quickly in WvW, often from splash damage alone or even just 1-2 single conditions.

So while the Power is nice, as is the Crit-Damage, I don’t think the 10% damage increase pays off in WvW.

I then tried Runes of the Ogre but found the Rock Dog had similar issues. Pathing was unreliable and it would often die to AoE. I don’t think it ever did much damage to other players, except when they were downed. Most annoyingly enemy Thieves would exploit if for easy Cloak and Dagger, which is a death sentence in duels.

So I went back to Beryl Orbs. They add 840 HP and 120 Power as well as 12-crit-damage, putting my overall Crit-damage at 112%, which is nice. So stat-wise they are a great choice, better than Divinity’s in every way, but they still feel lackluster.

Now I know Traveler Runes are a choice, but since I run a standard 0/30/30/10/0 build without Mug (I like to Steal in order to setup Backstab rather than have it trigger Mug) I often opt for Fleet Shadows, which is kind-of redundant with Traveler Runes. And the other options for Tier 1 Acrobatics are less desirable. The fall-damage reduction is nice, but too situational to make a difference in most fights.

Lyssa Runes would be an idea, but then again I don’t really use Basilisk Venom much, and as much as I’d love Stability, the short duration and limited scope make it much less useful in WvW than sPvP.

I even tried Runes of Vampirism a while back but they were terribly buggy and unreliable. The procc that was supposed to save you rarely triggered in a useful manner as you had to drop below 10%…..but not die, for it to have an effect.

So, as you can see I can’t get satisfaction. Ideally any Rune-set I use would be Power-based to off-set any loss in Crit-Damage. But even when expanding the scope to other potential rune-sets I can’t seem to find anything remotely satisfying.

Do you have any thoughts aside from the usual Travelers/Scholar/Orbs?

Edit: I’ve just been browsing the Rune list and it would seem like the Superior Runes of Strength are a viable option as the +5% damage when under the effect of Might would practically apply all the time.

The question is if the 35 extra Power, 5% damage increase and slightly higher Might uptime off-set the loss of 12% crit-damage and 840 HP.

“Now I know Traveler Runes are a choice, but since I run a standard 0/30/30/10/0 build without Mug (I like to Steal in order to setup Backstab rather than have it trigger Mug) I often opt for Fleet Foot, which is kind-of redundant with Traveler Runes.”

I use traveler for the 25% movement speed increase that frees up the third utility slot for infiltrators signet (or black powder or scorpion wire, depending on my mood)

I’m not sure how FoF removes the need for Traveler runes. Can you explain what you mean?

Also, with Traveler and the extra Util you can go 10/30/30/0/0 and you can open with infi signet active rather than steal to get your c/d backstab off and then still have steal for a second SS later that is longer range for runners and also provides the extra damage/heal combo.

But back to your original question – for outnumbered roaming I think Traveler is far better than scholar as I’m rarely at full health during outnumbered fights for long and the free util is really useful.

Orbs are great if you dont have a lot of money.

I think Traveler runes win hands down for WvW.

Why not just get ruby orbs for the precision that you’re missing to boost your damage while not losing any crit damage?

The way I see it you need either of the following three for WvW skirmishes.

• Either a passive 25% speed-increase from Runes of the Traveler or Signet of Shadows.
• Or an extremely high uptime of Swiftness from Assassin’s Retreat for example.
• Or Fleet Shadows for being fast in stealth.

Edit: Just realized the typo. I meant Fleet Shadows 150% movement speed in stealth rather than Fleet on Foot.

Currently I picked the Fleet Shadows option but I am open to all of them.

The reason I don’t pick Ruby Orbs is because I don’t really need extra Precision. In my opinion 840 HP are more valuable for my build than 4% Crit-chance. But I would give it up for more effective damage or some nice utility.

I know I could get an extra 100 Power by going into Deadly Arts but I’ve gotten so used to playing without Mug that I don’t like playing with it. And the other traits seem so lackluster.

But I do admit that the prospect of Traveler Runes + 100 Power from Deadly Arts at the cost of 1840 HP, 6% Crit-Damage and Fleet Shadows is tempting. I’m just not sold it’s actually worth it.

PS: Does anyone have any experience with the Runes of the Citadel? How much damage does that bomb do they summon?

I prefer Traveler Runes for a Dagger thief in WvW. Thieves are roamers, and a roamer without constant speed enhancement will accomplish less and die more. Moreover, the stats on these runes are all useful. Not perfect — that would be Scholar Runes — but useful at least.

You can choose to run the signet instead, but utility slots are important. I wouldn’t give up Blinding Powder for the marginal damage increase I would get from Scholar Runes. I wouldn’t give up Shadow Step or Shadow Refuge for anything

The speed increase while stealthed is slightly helpful in catching targets for a backstab, but it does nothing for your overland speed. There are better uses for that trait point.

I don’t buy it Travelers Runes being so important for a Thief. Activating Signet of Shadows takes 3 seconds when not in combat so the whole-over-land travel speed argument isn’t valid. Also consider how much time someone else is buffing you with Swiftness.

Since I spend my time about 50/50 between solo-roaming and zerging I just don’t think Traveler Runes are as great as people make them out to be.

• They are worthless when you have Swiftness.
• They are only useful when not stealthed when you have Fleet Shadows. A Dagger Thief typically spends 60% of a fight in stealth.
• Signet of Shadows can always be switched in for longer overland travel.

So really the benefits of Traveler Runes only apply to a very small niche or if people are too lazy to switch out Signet of Shadows before a fight.

Dee Jay.2460:

So really the benefits of Traveler Runes only apply to a very small niche or if people are too lazy to switch out Signet of Shadows before a fight.

And zerging with your thief is only for people too lazy to switch to an alt I use my staff elementalist or guardian for zergs. The thief is for solo/ duo roaming.

In all seriousness, though, you can only state the following as definitive:

- For any power build, Scholar Runes are probably the highest DPS (even if you lose the buff fairly often, you have plenty of access to healing through SA). Ruby Orbs are close.

- Everything else is less DPS, but provides some additional useful utility. You can get movement speed, help dealing with conditions, super-buffs (Lyssa + Basilisk is nice), additional survivability. Even a parrot, yarr!

You can’t really say whether X% more DPS is ‘better’ than the various other benefits. It’s all a matter of preference, playstyle and context. All you can do is explain the tradeoffs so people can pick what they want.

Why not Eagle with a 5 percent buff when enemy below 50? Less power but more hits that crit and the 5 percent buff should make up for some power loss from the scholars.

Or Superior Rune of Infiltration with a 10% buff when the enemy is below 50%?

Look at the Superior Runes of the Pack (adds Power ,+100 Precision is always welcome and the forth gives 5% for Fury might and swiftness when get hit,in WvW happens very often).
I also like as an alternative S.runes of the Air or S. runes of rage.
All the runes at the previous posts above are great .My personal preference for valkirie armor 10-30-30-0-0 are runes of speed and for my ascended Valkirie armor either for 10-30-30-0-0 or 0-30-30-10-0 are runes of the traveler.

I run similar valkyrie/zerk build. Used to use beryl orbs, but in time switched to divinity runes just because it costs much. Was thinking of getting traveler runes to clean SoS spot, but im just too addicted to it couse of targeted AoE blind it provides which proven to be very usefull combined with cloaked in shadow blind on stealth.

IF you got guard stacks, id first lower your hp to about 14500. for speccing for more precision. try to get 40% critchance + helps you at the cloak/HS. but yeah traveler runes are optimal.

Many options available tbh.

I stick with Divinity since I roam with a staff ele and we can stack 2 mins of swiftness at the drop of a hat, so Traveller runes don’t offer as much to me personally.

If you don’t have the ability to keep swiftness up though Traveller seems to be the runes of choice for most.

Ok so I’ve just replaced my Beryl Orbs with Runes of Strength and am actually impressed by the DPS increase.

I recorded a series of Backstabs against Karka and had them average around 5000 with the Beryl Orbs (112% Crit-Damage).

With Runes of Strength the Backstab damage increased to roughly an average of 5200, which is substantial against softer targets. Auto-attack damage increased too. It just goes to show how much better Power is than any other DPS stat.

Dee Jay.2460:

Ok so I’ve just replaced my Beryl Orbs with Runes of Strength and am actually impressed by the DPS increase.

I recorded a series of Backstabs against Karka and had them average around 5000 with the Beryl Orbs (112% Crit-Damage).

With Runes of Strength the Backstab damage increased to roughly an average of 5200, which is substantial against softer targets. Auto-attack damage increased too. It just goes to show how much better Power is than any other DPS stat.

Well power is the most important DPS stat. You can have a massively high crit rate and damage but if your power is like only 100, not really much damage you’re putting out. On topic, I’ve been using wurm runes, which give pretty nice power and crit damage but you’ll be trading that other third thing for an increase in vitality. On paper that is nice but honestly there are some fights lost where added power would’ve been the better option than added hp. I guess there are no blanket runes out there.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Thief
10% damage when attacking a player from the side or behind. Not HP dependant.

Brando.1374:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Thief
10% damage when attacking a player from the side or behind. Not HP dependant.

Yeah but then you see they boost prec and condi dmg, which doesnt really benefit a power DD build. (condi dmg)

Runes of strength is worth looking at now.

Scholar is actually fine for perma stealth builds due to rejuvination. There is just little room for error as far as maximizing damage is concerned.

Drop Fleet Shadow and get Traveler runes. They’re expensive, but worth every copper. Switch your Acro trait to Descent of Shadows or Power of Inertia.

The mobility of Traveler runes is only beaten by Centaur runes when using Withdraw or Signet of Malice, but Traveler allow you to save your heal cd and not be penalized by choosing Hide in Shadow. They also have better stat bonuses for your build, particularly since the extra boon duration assists the might you stack from SA traits.

roaming . . . traveler is the way . . .

Am i the only one who noticed that runes of traveler dont work in combat?

Duka.5864:

Am i the only one who noticed that runes of traveler dont work in combat?

In combat speed is slower then out of combat speed.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c;4RwV0-J5wOVd0;9;5TOE;259B23-5;35oW0S;1nDfSqhrTn-FS-Ao0S;1VhVlWqXv2147a-30C-2i;5F2Eoc0CP;9;9;9;9;83-6F
Then i will sugest something like this with 15 in AC+ food you will get traveling speed and with runes+ food you can stack might and have one hell of attack!And what is more important for me at least you have in combat movement speed!

Traveler runes for roaming. Lyssa runes I find is decent for zerging material. You basically get the 8 seconds of stability from dagger storm then the additional 5 seconds from lyssa. If you’re cheap lyssa runes could fill roaming roles as well. You could use venom share in a small group to make more usage out of Basilisk venom. Remember though, the great thing about lyssa runes is it removes all your conditions when you cast the elite skill. Considering our condition removal is limited, this can be very useful.

I don’t recommend any straight up damage runes unless you’re confident enough to maintain health and timing dodges.

As for fleet of shadows, it should be the must-use trait for DD thieves. You need all the speed you can get to execute that backstab. The extra 25% is not negligible just because you have traveler runes or the speed signet. Considering you only have limited time to accomplish the backstab, this helps loads.