Guild Wars 2

Yesterday someone posted that if you have no offhand in one slot it will use the offhand in the other slot by default. For whatever reason that made me want to try out S/D & D/ since I didn’t have to buy a 3rd dagger. Holy balls this combo is amazing. I’ve played every combo and this one is overall the most fun and could be the most effective in WvW. It destroys P/D for instance which is known as king of 1 on 1.

Playing S/D my main issue was people getting 1 step away and having S#2 set to return. Being able to swap to heartseeker is amazing for this. Being able to choose control with wtih S/D or more burst with backstab is great. I like to survive so it’s not a pure GC build.

Armor and back slot P/V/T
Rings/Weapons/Accessories are Zerker. (I actually use zerker pants and a p/v/t ring but that’s just to min/max precision)
Ruby Orbs in Armor and Back
0/20/30/20/0
7% crit behind & Side/5% per to vit
Con remove/Blind/Health Regen
Might on Dodge/2 init per 10
100power/70per food and Power Nourishment

This gives roughly 17K health and ~45-50% crit chance with ~79crit damage and ~2500 armor along with close to max power.

Had to make some hard choices like loosing Mug or 20% dmg at 50% health but I value the 2init per 10 and Feline Grace more for this build. I also feed 30 shadow is required for any build you want to have staying power.

Abilities are HiS, Shadowstep, Refuge, SoS, Guild
Bloodlust on the offhand dagger, 5% damage on both main-hands.

10 seconds into a fight you will have 8-10 stacks of might and hit hard but also I feel like i have almost as much staying power in 1or2vN as I did with P/D and 21K health.

Wish I knew about this before, I had always just not wanted to buy a 3rd dagger (cheap) to try it out :P

Stiv.1820:

Playing S/D my main issue was people getting 1 step away and having S#2 set to return. Being able to swap to heartseeker is amazing for this.

Good job on using inter-weapon synergy to chase people, far too little of this in the thief profession because thieves don’t get as much from a swap as most.

One thing I’d recommend is looking at http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Orrian_Truffle_and_Meat_Stew for food instead of your straight power/prec food. It is probably more expensive, but if you’re already running Might-on-Dodge synergy it is game-changing. Also consider dropping 2 ruby orbs for a +20 % Might duration set bonus like Rune of Hoelbrak and a maybe even a Sigil of Battle (depends on how effectively you’re able to utilize Bloodlust, TBH). Sigil of Energy is good too, swap sigils are awesome but thieves rarely get to benefit from them.

Cheers.Did you try trait V instead of VI in Shadow Arts tree.It saves way more ini than Quick Recovery.Also what you consider main weapon?I presume you open with S/D?Do you change to D/D right after that?

No sigil of paralyzation? Adds a whole extra second to your daze… Also, without executioner trait, you are giving a huge portion of dps up for dodge, and you shouldn’t need to dodge all that much with the easy to put yourself into stealth with IS->C&D…

I’d suggest dropping SR (because I find it lame, anyway) and getting signet of agility; that way you get extra Prec, and an energy refill since you like dodge so much, and going all the way up in Critical Strikes…

Just my two cents.

EDIT: That said, this pairing is pretty amazing, and is what I use (with SB on reserve in my inv. should I run into a seige scenario)

Tulisin.6945:

Stiv.1820:

Playing S/D my main issue was people getting 1 step away and having S#2 set to return. Being able to swap to heartseeker is amazing for this.

Good job on using inter-weapon synergy to chase people, far too little of this in the thief profession because thieves don’t get as much from a swap as most.

One thing I’d recommend is looking at http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Orrian_Truffle_and_Meat_Stew for food instead of your straight power/prec food. It is probably more expensive, but if you’re already running Might-on-Dodge synergy it is game-changing. Also consider dropping 2 ruby orbs for a +20 % Might duration set bonus like Rune of Hoelbrak and a maybe even a Sigil of Battle (depends on how effectively you’re able to utilize Bloodlust, TBH). Sigil of Energy is good too, swap sigils are awesome but thieves rarely get to benefit from them.

I did look at some of that and it came down to cost and being anal about wasting percision points. I wanted my non base precision to be perfectly dividable by 21 which I was able to do with this food and a combo of gear. But 2 might per roll would be amazing. This food is like perma 4 stacks thoguh so not too bad. I also swap builds a lot for fun and that food works for any straight damage build. I also don’t want to figure out a new gear combo to give me the correct precision ratio :P

Laika.8795:

No sigil of paralyzation? Adds a whole extra second to your daze… Also, without executioner trait, you are giving a huge portion of dps up for dodge, and you shouldn’t need to dodge all that much with the easy to put yourself into stealth with IS->C&D…

I’d suggest dropping SR (because I find it lame, anyway) and getting signet of agility; that way you get extra Prec, and an energy refill since you like dodge so much, and going all the way up in Critical Strikes…

Just my two cents.

I was under the impression that post nerf, that sigil had rounding issues? Even if it doesn’t I prefer straight damage. It is in use for every single ability. The 2 second daze is still great for when you think someone is going to pop a CD.

I tried with executioner and I died a lot more. Yea the damage is amazing but just not worth it to me. I am straight up addicted to both feline grace and 2 init/10 from my previous build. SR I could give up but I run with one other thief a lot of the time and both of us having SR lets us pull of some stupid stuff.

Stiv.1820:

I was under the impression that post nerf, that sigil had rounding issues? Even if it doesn’t I prefer straight damage. It is in use for every single ability. The 2 second daze is still great for when you think someone is going to pop a CD.

Yeah, they botched it in SPvP, but it’s still viable in WvW. It’s all good, all a matter of personal preference anyway, still the pairing that no one expects.

Stiv.1820:

But 2 might per roll would be amazing.

It isn’t just that, the 40 % endurance regen stacks multiplicatively with your 15 Acrobatics passive and it also allows you to maintain a lot more Swiftness-on-Dodge uptime, meaning you could more easily drop SoS for a better utility. If you took SoA instead, you’d get your lost Precision back, a condition removal, and more dodge to feed back into the synergy loop. Net difference is boosted offense, defense, and combat mobility at the cost of some passive mobility.

ZLE.8293:

Cheers.Did you try trait V instead of VI in Shadow Arts tree.It saves way more ini than Quick Recovery.Also what you consider main weapon?I presume you open with S/D?Do you change to D/D right after that?

The three shadow traits of blind, con remove and heal in stealth are all insanely good. The only build I’d change those on is D/P.

I consider S/D the main weapon. Open with it and only swap to chase or finish people. Sometimes change in stealth to surprise people with a backstab instead of a daze. It is maily a gap closer which S/D lacks for runners. S/D is amazing vs people who stay and fight but in WvW that’s maybe 10% of people until they outnumber you.

Stiv.1820:

I wanted my non base precision to be perfectly dividable by 21 which I was able to do with this food and a combo of gear.

It’s not exactly 21. The wiki mentions 21.16 and I found 21.068. The first requires you to add an additional point of precision for every 126, for the second +1 every 300, roughly
More accurate: Pc = (-39.349 + 0,0475 * Precision) / 100 (when precision > 916)

Tulisin.6945:

Stiv.1820:

But 2 might per roll would be amazing.

It isn’t just that, the 40 % endurance regen stacks multiplicatively with your 15 Acrobatics passive and it also allows you to maintain a lot more Swiftness-on-Dodge uptime, meaning you could more easily drop SoS for a better utility. If you took SoA instead, you’d get your lost Precision back, a condition removal, and more dodge to feed back into the synergy loop.

That’s right forgot about the endo regen, very nice.. I will seriously consider this especially once I don’t need money anymore. Biggest deterrent is this food was really expensive when I looked at it and I am always horribly poor from buying diffident armor sets and such.

frans.8092:

It’s not exactly 21. The wiki mentions 21.16 and I found 21.068. The first requires you to add an additional point of precision for every 126, for the second +1 every 300, roughly

Awesome info, thanks! I’ll have to re-calculate for new food anyway so I’ll use this. It probably just means I swap back to full p/v/t armor and zerker rest since that worked out to about 13 wasted precision based on the wiki.

heh nice one. Using S/P it does get randomly annoying that infiltrators return from the strike can’t be cancelled any other way. I however switch to bow and use its infiltrators arrow to shadow step ahead of fleeing target then evaluate different options from there.

Iohanna.4863:

C&D is not as reliable as Black Powder + Heartseeker.

OK but C&D is like 4 ini(presuming you don’t miss) compared to 7 for BP+HS.Aren’t you having recourse problems?

Stiv, it’s Amy.

0/20/30/20/0 works far better with S/D + D/P (although this compels you to get a pistol, if money is an issue). D/D is kind of redundant together with S/D, as they both rely on C&D for stealth. C&D is not as reliable as Black Powder + Heartseeker.

Swap out “Blind upon stealth” for “gain 2 initiative upon stealth”. Also don’t be afraid to use Signets and Dagger Storm (this is entirely up to your taste however).

You’ll find that D/P will greatly enhance your mobility and access to stealth (your Heartseekers are now stealths!). It’s also better for chasing if you have “50% move speed in stealth”:

Black Powder —> Heartseeker --> Infiltrator’s Signet / Steal / Shadowstep —> Infiltrator’s Strike or Tactical Strike

This will catch up with even D/D Elementalists. Although, Ride the Lightning is on a 15 second cool-down so good luck sticking to them.

PS: I run D/D + S/D in Dungeons. NPCs are too stupid to avoid C&D, so I can afford to do this.

PPS: D/P is the king of 1v1 :<

Iohanna.4863:

Stiv, it’s Amy.

0/20/30/20/0 works far better with S/D + D/P (although this compels you to get a pistol, if money is an issue). D/D is kind of redundant together with S/D, as they both rely on C&D for stealth. C&D is not as reliable as Black Powder + Heartseeker.

C&D is as reliable as you make it. BP + HS is extremely initiative exhausting (9 init, 3/4 our bar!), and not worth it in the least bit.

The reason I run up into the 30pts in Crit Strikes, I open with IS→C&D→Tac Strike, whack on them until they are around 50%, switch to D/D Mug→C&D→BS for an unexpected spike.

ZLE.8293:

Iohanna.4863:

C&D is not as reliable as Black Powder + Heartseeker.

OK but C&D is like 4 ini(presuming you don’t miss) compared to 7 for BP+HS.Aren’t you having recourse problems?

Contrary to popular belief, 7 initiative is not as initiative costly as most people would believe when you are regenerating 3 initiative per 10 seconds.

indeed.
D/D/S rules:P
..specialy against other thieves or ele’s.

Laika.8795:

C&D is as reliable as you make it. BP + HS is extremely initiative exhausting (9 init, 3/4 our bar!), and not worth it in the least bit.

It’s actually 7 initiative with the +2 initiative on stealth trait. With enough initiative regeneration, it is possible to sustain stealth under BP + HS just as often as C&D.

BP + HS also has the added bonus of perma-stealth. You can stack stealth indefinitely in combat at virtually any time, without running out of initiative because of your initiative regeneration.

I’m not saying BP+HS is completely superior to C&D. You need both for different situations. C&D excels in DPS and efficiency, whilst BP+HS is more survival oriented (readily available, immune to blinds and blocks, indefinite stealth, blinds).

I apologize for being rather insistent, but I have had too many Thief buddies fail to survive an engagement where a D/P Thief could have easily survived/won. I really want more people to run D/P – especially Stiv who shares a server with me.

Hey Amy,

I have a pistol for when I play with d/p It’s just not the flavor I’m looking for. That particular Stealth trait spec (blind,conremove,heal) is so good for everything in WvW I couldn’t give it up. When I play d/p I prefer to go full berserker and play more hit and run like a glass cannon so I take all those init traits.

In this particular case, I was loving S/D but was just annoyed at the lack of a sustained gap closer for runners which heartseeker fills in. I know d/p would solve that too but don’t like it without the traits for perma stealth. I was using shortbow to chase but it lowers dps a ton and I loose C&D for 10 seconds. I also like the consistency of having C&D available 100% of the time. I’m so used to it from P/D.

I’ve been running D/D + S/D for about 2 weeks now. I honestly think it’s the best non-condition combo.

S/D rips up warriors and guardians.
D/D is higher DPS and has great mobility.

I found out that shadowstep from sword works while stomping.

So if some noob teleports or mist form and moves during a stomp, you can hit 2 and port to them for quick stomp and not have to waste shadowstep.

S/D destroys P/D builds and usually catches most thieves off guard. I like to shadowstep, root, CnD, Backstab, HS.

I like opening with S/D and then getting them a little low and bursting them with D/D. Most of the time they don’t realize I’m running both weapon sets.

They are thinking oh this is guy is S/D it will take him some time to kill me. I don’t need to use my heal at 50%. Then comes the backstab and hs from stealth and they die trying to cast a heal or something.

If I am in trouble I CnD off something and spam HS in a direction I want to go (turn off auto-targeting for this to work).

Also, the AOE on sword is great when someone is trying to revive a downed player. Daze also interrupts a revive, very useful. Daze a player reviving another player and then swap to D/D to burst him down before he can revive again.

I am still running BS traits and I find it works fine with S/D. Even if I swap out for executioner it doesn’t increase my DPS enough to be worth the loss of guaranteed crit after a cnd.

30SA (imo must for health regen in stealth)
30CS
10 Acrobatics (50% stealth movement)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYMQRAoY8YlUmiO3ey5E+5Ey2jKUnIKuHGFS1UdFwKA;TUAg0CnsAZQxsAA

Yep, I love S/D’s counter to reviving. Especially a thief blanketing a downed player with SR. Just swing that huge s-peen over where the downed guy was and you have two downed players once refuge expires.

Stiv.1820:

Yep, I love S/D’s counter to reviving. Especially a thief blanketing a downed player with SR. Just swing that huge s-peen over where the downed guy was and you have two downed players once refuge expires.

I’ve only had that happen once. Usually they dodge out of the revive and I end up downing the reviver while the other guy is still downed.

Also, #2 sword skill removes 1 condition.

I honestly can’t see why you would use any other combo of weapons unless you went condition build. Then I’d run P/D + D/D.

Why isn’t everyone using Omnomberry Pies with a build like this? 66% chance on crit for a 400 damage lifetap with no cooldown.

Albane.8367:

Why isn’t everyone using Omnomberry Pies with a build like this? 66% chance on crit for a 400 damage lifetap with no cooldown.

I am…

Albane.8367:

Why isn’t everyone using Omnomberry Pies with a build like this? 66% chance on crit for a 400 damage lifetap with no cooldown.

Well usually anything with “Omnom” in it is too rich for my blood :P Also, I feel like I have enough staying power that the heal side of the lifetap would be mostly waisted. The damage needs to be pushed up as much as possible

I’ve been running S/D with short bow, this really gives me a new horizon to try it out with D/D as the swap. Do you guys swap out the 20% to enemy with 50% health for the 100% crit out of stealth trait?

rchu.8945:

I’ve been running S/D with short bow, this really gives me a new horizon to try it out with D/D as the swap. Do you guys swap out the 20% to enemy with 50% health for the 100% crit out of stealth trait?

I’ve been running 100% crit out of stealth.

I was D/D before throwing S/D into it.

I tried running running executioner and didn’t really notice any increase in my dps.

However, you always notice the crit from stealth especially when using D/D.

Does anyone know why when I weaponswap to D/D from S/D I loose about 9 power? Do weapons have their own hidden power bonuses or something? Both have the exact same stats so unsure where the 9 power difference is coming from.

So this pretty much your build?

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=XdF333;0Rwk0-J5VOkd0;9;5JTJ;225-35A18;25RV0;9-5gU

Albane.8367:

So this pretty much your build?

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=XdF333;0Rwk0-J5VOkd0;9;5JTJ;225-35A18;25RV0;9-5gU

Says “Bad Link” for me.

Iohanna.4863:

Heartseekers are now stealths!

^^
I’m definitely on the newer side so please forgive my ignorance. I’m not following how this is the case.

Iohanna.4863:

0/20/30/20/0

no mug and executioner ?
then you have no burst and your hs would deal low dmg.

dkel.1928:

Iohanna.4863:

Heartseekers are now stealths!

^^
I’m definitely on the newer side so please forgive my ignorance. I’m not following how this is the case.

She means if you use Black Powder and then cast heartseeker in the radius, your heartseeker grants stealth. At the prohibitive cost of 9 (7 traited) initiative.

I posted my build above. Something is wrong with ANet’s link system at the moment.

Highlight the text and copy/paste it into your address bar.

The links are good but ANet is broken.

I like my build better than the one you suggested.

You don’t need condition removal in stealth because sword shadowstep removes conditions. HiS removes I believe 2 conditions. Shadowstep (the skill) removes 3-5 conditions I think counting the shadowreturn.

Better to have init with 2 init on stealth, critical haste, shadow rejuv…

Don’t need that much acrobatics. Might on stealth, really? That’s like what an extra 50 damage maybe ? It stacks of course with other things but I find being fast as kitten in stealth is better than anything else. Even if they have 33% speed, you are faster than your target and landing a BS or Daze is no problem. Landing those skills over and over is what wins fights.

You should pick up the 30CS and get 100% crit from stealth and drop acrobatics imo. Change your might on dodge to stealth speed.

Then go out there and backstab noobs like crazy and swap sword when you need control, cond removal, daze.

swinsk.6410:

I posted my build above. Something is wrong with ANet’s link system at the moment.

Highlight the text and copy/paste it into your address bar.

The links are good but ANet is broken.

I like my build better than the one you suggested.

You don’t need condition removal in stealth because sword shadowstep removes conditions. HiS removes I believe 2 conditions. Shadowstep (the skill) removes 3-5 conditions I think counting the shadowreturn.

Better to have init with 2 init on stealth, critical haste, shadow rejuv…

Don’t need that much acrobatics. Might on stealth, really? That’s like what an extra 50 damage maybe ? It stacks of course with other things but I find being fast as kitten in stealth is better than anything else. Even if they have 33% speed, you are faster than your target and landing a BS or Daze is no problem. Landing those skills over and over is what wins fights.

You should pick up the 30CS and get 100% crit from stealth and drop acrobatics imo. Change your might on dodge to stealth speed.

Then go out there and backstab noobs like crazy and swap sword when you need control, cond removal, daze.

Normally I would say bad things about his build, and give him better advice

BUT

I would like to take this time to say do not listen to this kittenty player. He sucked in DAoC and watching one of his thief videos shows me his suck has continued in this game.

btw what server you defiling w/ your presence right now?

swinsk.6410:

I posted my build above. Something is wrong with ANet’s link system at the moment.

Highlight the text and copy/paste it into your address bar.

The links are good but ANet is broken.

I like my build better than the one you suggested.

You don’t need condition removal in stealth because sword shadowstep removes conditions. HiS removes I believe 2 conditions. Shadowstep (the skill) removes 3-5 conditions I think counting the shadowreturn.

Better to have init with 2 init on stealth, critical haste, shadow rejuv…

Don’t need that much acrobatics. Might on stealth, really? That’s like what an extra 50 damage maybe ? It stacks of course with other things but I find being fast as kitten in stealth is better than anything else. Even if they have 33% speed, you are faster than your target and landing a BS or Daze is no problem. Landing those skills over and over is what wins fights.

You should pick up the 30CS and get 100% crit from stealth and drop acrobatics imo. Change your might on dodge to stealth speed.

Then go out there and backstab noobs like crazy and swap sword when you need control, cond removal, daze.

I originally did 30 CS. I went executioner though because I don’t like a trait that effectively is a waist half of the time. Half the time I’d crit anyway (I’d be interested in a D/P spec with full Power/Vit/Crit% gear using this trait though but then the crit% is waisted a lot, maybe full p/v/t). I just didn’t like not having FG and 2init/10. Maybe it’s the types of fights I get myself into but being outnumbered 2v7 you really do need those two abilities for C&D and dodging along with the 3 Shadow arts ones.

I never use shadowstep as a condition removal with this build (only with DD GC build really) it’s just a side effect. It’s a stun breaker and gap closer or zerg juke tool.

Lots of time I find myself rolling in stealth for positioning and avoidance anyway which gives swiftness so I don’t see a need for the speed in stealth (and with SoS it’s only 8% more). If I take anything else from that one it’s the 50% fall damage. I really don’t even like giving that up for might rolls since it’s so useful almost everywhere in WvW. Might at around 10 stacks is 14-20% damage bonus depending on your target’s armor.

Jinks.2057:

Normally I would say bad things about his build, and give him better advice

BUT

I would like to take this time to say do not listen to this kittenty player. He sucked in DAoC and watching one of his thief videos shows me his suck has continued in this game.

btw what server you defiling w/ your presence right now?

Stormbluff Isles. Which one of my fanboi’s are you u from daoc?

That was not a “video”. That was a short clip of the last 2-3min of my last run. My wife came home in the middle of the video. Right at about 1:20 my wife opened the garage door and I peaked outside for a moment. Contemplated on just letting myself die in the door way. I was fighting zergs that day 1vX.

Instead I just kamikaze the next group of enemies I saw and downed 1 and almost stomped him. This was also before I started running S/D.

“Video” in question: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7J67F9wtDg

To me it is just a short clip with no editing. I was lucky to put music on it because if I didn’t it would have no sound because I don’t play with sounds enabled.

So go ahead, tell me why my build is bad. I wouldn’t mind chatting about it.

Lavexis.5360:

Iohanna.4863:

0/20/30/20/0

no mug and executioner ?
then you have no burst and your hs would deal low dmg.

Still getting >5K heartseekers at low health and 8K backstabs all while having quite possibly the best staying power in WvW right now. S/D is very easy to get people down to 50-25% levels without mug where backstab/HS blows them up. This is my first build without mug and it’s almost freeing in a way. Hard to explain.

Stiv.1820:

I originally did 30 CS. I went executioner though because I don’t like a trait that effectively is a waist half of the time. Half the time I’d crit anyway (I’d be interested in a D/P spec with full Power/Vit/Crit% gear using this trait though but then the crit% is waisted a lot, maybe full p/v/t). I just didn’t like not having FG and 2init/10. Maybe it’s the types of fights I get myself into but being outnumbered 2v7 you really do need those two abilities for C&D and dodging along with the 3 Shadow arts ones.
You don’t want to use a trait that is only effective 50% of the time? That’s kind of a stupid statement because executioner only kicks in after your enemy is below 50% While your crit from stealth will work at any percent. Also not to mention as a thief you are stealthed about 90% of the time. I read that as you are using executioner. In a later post you said you are not using it.

I never use shadowstep as a condition removal with this build (only with DD GC build really) it’s just a side effect. It’s a stun breaker and gap closer or zerg juke tool.
Exactly my point. I’ve only ever used shadowstep (skill) once as a cond removal. I had burning and I had nothing else to CnD off or stealth from. I was going down unless I shadowsteped quickly. However, during a normal fight kitten D you have plenty of “side-effect” condition removals. So why get cond removal from stealth? Especially when fighting a cond build enemy, S/D is the weapon set to use.

Lots of time I find myself rolling in stealth for positioning and avoidance anyway which gives swiftness so I don’t see a need for the speed in stealth (and with SoS it’s only 8% more). If I take anything else from that one it’s the 50% fall damage. I really don’t even like giving that up for might rolls since it’s so useful almost everywhere in WvW. Might at around 10 stacks is 14-20% damage bonus depending on your target’s armor.
I’m usually rolling around with 6-8 stacks of might from stealthing. I’ve had 10 before but that’s usually using a refuge. Swiftness from dodging only last 2s then it’s gone. Most stealth abilities are 4s (with traits). We all know we can stack stealth as well. Very useful in getting away sticky situations. Also, your 8% is correct for out of combat situations, but that is incorrect for combat situations. If you had the stealth speed you wouldn’t need to waste a dodge in stealth to get good positioning/speed. To me, positioning is more important that a little bit of extra damage.

Just opening the debate!

swinsk.6410:

You don’t want to use a trait that is only effective 50% of the time? That’s kind of a stupid statement because executioner only kicks in after your enemy is below 50% While your crit from stealth will work at any percent. Also not to mention as a thief you are stealthed about 90% of the time. I read that as you are using executioner. In a later post you said you are not using it.

Exactly my point. I’ve only ever used shadowstep (skill) once as a cond removal. I had burning and I had nothing else to CnD off or stealth from. I was going down unless I shadowsteped quickly. However, during a normal fight kitten D you have plenty of “side-effect” condition removals. So why get cond removal from stealth? Especially when fighting a cond build enemy, S/D is the weapon set to use.

I’m usually rolling around with 6-8 stacks of might from stealthing. I’ve had 10 before but that’s usually using a refuge. Swiftness from dodging only last 2s then it’s gone. Most stealth abilities are 4s (with traits). We all know we can stack stealth as well. Very useful in getting away sticky situations. Also, your 8% is correct for out of combat situations, but that is incorrect for combat situations. If you had the stealth speed you wouldn’t need to waste a dodge in stealth to get good positioning/speed. To me, positioning is more important that a little bit of extra damage.

Just opening the debate![/quote]

Well I in the end I didn’t take either but I still think they are different. Executioner is designed to give 20% more damage at 50% health. It always works when they get that low. Nothing in my build overlaps with that.

Having a 100% chance to crit when I’m already likely at ~60% when about to backstab is pointless 60% of the time. The trait would have made no difference at all in the window it is designed to be helpful. There is something to say for consistency and knowing you are going to get a crit but I don’t use backstab like that. The build cycles depending on the fight and is just constant damage.

I use condition removal on stealth because it’s absurdly powerful. Same goes with blind on stealth especially for /D in both swaps. 1vN you can’t rely on just S#2. If you aren’t stealth you are dead. I see your point for 1 on 1 though the condition removal is overkill but WvW is hardly 1 on 1. The benefit is conditions aren’t even worth thinking about. I can save S#2 and shadwostep 100% for stuns/roots/knocks which is the real threat to us (though I feel like S#2 doesn’t always work for stuns?). I also feel like I’m not starving for init even with 2 per 10 so making C&D effectively 4 isn’t very necessary.

The steath speed must just be flavor. I don’t feel like I need it. 25% from SoS does work in combat, I haven’t felt like the trait gives a true 50%, that could change things. Either way, even if it was 50% speed I would still probably take 50% fall over it so for me it’s a debate between 50% fall and Might rolls. I still use fall most of the time and swap to might only in certain areas. It’s way too useful, even just that rock on the lower left side of the borderlands. You can run a zerg around that thing forever with that trait. Then there are always the zerglings (lemmings) that will follow you to their death off a huge cliff. Half splat, half with their own fall trait get cleaved by sword autos as they fall on their face.

I’ve been running S/D + D/D for quite some time. Traits are 0/30/30/10/0 with a mix of Berserker / Valkyrie / Knight pieces. It’s probably the most fun Build i’ve played so far and very very strong 1on1. A great Sigil to use with this combination is the 100% crit chance when you swap to the weapon with the sigil in. If your opponents hp is below 50% → CnD → swap to D/D → deal massive backstab damage (100% crit chance + Executioner Trait). If your opponents survives that just spam Heartseeker and they’ll drop dead very fast.

The Mobility u get from the weapon sets is insane. Infi Strike + Heartseeker + Shadowstep = imba.

Shizzlenit.7648:

I’ve been running S/D + D/D for quite some time. Traits are 0/30/30/10/0 with a mix of Berserker / Valkyrie / Knight pieces. It’s probably the most fun Build i’ve played so far and very very strong 1on1. A great Sigil to use with this combination is the 100% crit chance when you swap to the weapon with the sigil in. If your opponents hp is below 50% -> CnD -> swap to D/D -> deal massive backstab damage (100% crit chance + Executioner Trait). If your opponents survives that just spam Heartseeker and they’ll drop dead very fast.

The Mobility u get from the weapon sets is insane. Infi Strike + Heartseeker + Shadowstep = imba.

I thought about that sigil. I wasn’t sure if it acts like poison and is applied to the next attack regardless of a hit or miss? Or is it on the next connected hit? What about block/evade/immune?

Stiv.1820:

Shizzlenit.7648:

I’ve been running S/D + D/D for quite some time. Traits are 0/30/30/10/0 with a mix of Berserker / Valkyrie / Knight pieces. It’s probably the most fun Build i’ve played so far and very very strong 1on1. A great Sigil to use with this combination is the 100% crit chance when you swap to the weapon with the sigil in. If your opponents hp is below 50% -> CnD -> swap to D/D -> deal massive backstab damage (100% crit chance + Executioner Trait). If your opponents survives that just spam Heartseeker and they’ll drop dead very fast.

The Mobility u get from the weapon sets is insane. Infi Strike + Heartseeker + Shadowstep = imba.

I thought about that sigil. I wasn’t sure if it acts like poison and is applied to the next attack regardless of a hit or miss? Or is it on the next connected hit? What about block/evade/immune?

If the attack misses / gets blocked / etc. the sigil loses it’s effect. The next attack you do (even if you have no target or anything) has to hit.

Shizzlenit.7648:

Stiv.1820:

Shizzlenit.7648:

I’ve been running S/D + D/D for quite some time. Traits are 0/30/30/10/0 with a mix of Berserker / Valkyrie / Knight pieces. It’s probably the most fun Build i’ve played so far and very very strong 1on1. A great Sigil to use with this combination is the 100% crit chance when you swap to the weapon with the sigil in. If your opponents hp is below 50% -> CnD -> swap to D/D -> deal massive backstab damage (100% crit chance + Executioner Trait). If your opponents survives that just spam Heartseeker and they’ll drop dead very fast.

The Mobility u get from the weapon sets is insane. Infi Strike + Heartseeker + Shadowstep = imba.

I thought about that sigil. I wasn’t sure if it acts like poison and is applied to the next attack regardless of a hit or miss? Or is it on the next connected hit? What about block/evade/immune?

If the attack misses / gets blocked / etc. the sigil loses it’s effect. The next attack you do (even if you have no target or anything) has to hit.

Thanks that’s what I was wondering about. A large amount of my swaps to dagger are to close a gap with HS that misses a lot. Loosing 5% damage still might not be that big of a deal for this benefit though. Then there is the same issue of “I would have crit anyway” so maybe a constant 5% is overall better. Decisions, decisions.

Stiv.1820:

Shizzlenit.7648:

Stiv.1820:

Shizzlenit.7648:

I’ve been running S/D + D/D for quite some time. Traits are 0/30/30/10/0 with a mix of Berserker / Valkyrie / Knight pieces. It’s probably the most fun Build i’ve played so far and very very strong 1on1. A great Sigil to use with this combination is the 100% crit chance when you swap to the weapon with the sigil in. If your opponents hp is below 50% -> CnD -> swap to D/D -> deal massive backstab damage (100% crit chance + Executioner Trait). If your opponents survives that just spam Heartseeker and they’ll drop dead very fast.

The Mobility u get from the weapon sets is insane. Infi Strike + Heartseeker + Shadowstep = imba.

I thought about that sigil. I wasn’t sure if it acts like poison and is applied to the next attack regardless of a hit or miss? Or is it on the next connected hit? What about block/evade/immune?

If the attack misses / gets blocked / etc. the sigil loses it’s effect. The next attack you do (even if you have no target or anything) has to hit.

Thanks that’s what I was wondering about. A large amount of my swaps to dagger are to close a gap with HS that misses a lot. Loosing 5% damage still might not be that big of a deal for this benefit though. Then there is the same issue of “I would have crit anyway” so maybe a constant 5% is overall better. Decisions, decisions.

Just have to use ur backstab carefuly after u switched. It’s not very hard to take advantage of it. Especialy if u trait the 50% movement speed when stealthed. (yes this works just like the tooltip says)

Stiv.1820:

Well I in the end I didn’t take either but I still think they are different. Executioner is designed to give 20% more damage at 50% health. It always works when they get that low. Nothing in my build overlaps with that.

Having a 100% chance to crit when I’m already likely at ~60% when about to backstab is pointless 60% of the time. The trait would have made no difference at all in the window it is designed to be helpful. There is something to say for consistency and knowing you are going to get a crit but I don’t use backstab like that. The build cycles depending on the fight and is just constant damage.

I use condition removal on stealth because it’s absurdly powerful. Same goes with blind on stealth especially for /D in both swaps. 1vN you can’t rely on just S#2. If you aren’t stealth you are dead. I see your point for 1 on 1 though the condition removal is overkill but WvW is hardly 1 on 1. The benefit is conditions aren’t even worth thinking about. I can save S#2 and shadwostep 100% for stuns/roots/knocks which is the real threat to us (though I feel like S#2 doesn’t always work for stuns?). I also feel like I’m not starving for init even with 2 per 10 so making C&D effectively 4 isn’t very necessary.

The steath speed must just be flavor. I don’t feel like I need it. 25% from SoS does work in combat, I haven’t felt like the trait gives a true 50%, that could change things. Either way, even if it was 50% speed I would still probably take 50% fall over it so for me it’s a debate between 50% fall and Might rolls. I still use fall most of the time and swap to might only in certain areas. It’s way too useful, even just that rock on the lower left side of the borderlands. You can run a zerg around that thing forever with that trait. Then there are always the zerglings (lemmings) that will follow you to their death off a huge cliff. Half splat, half with their own fall trait get cleaved by sword autos as they fall on their face.

SoS does work in combat, however, your combat movement speed is severely hindered. The difference between having SoS and not having SoS in combat is very hard to tell the difference. Out of combat you definitely notice it. This is what stealth speed is like. It basically turns your combat speed into out of combat speed while in stealth. This gives you the best mobility any class in the game can have. No other class can move as fast as we can in combat with this trait.

The safefall trait is cool, however it’s only useful when you jump off a cliff. I use safefall when I jump off a cliff but I change the trait while I am out of combat and quickly switch it back after I fall off the cliff. I wouldn’t run it 100% of the time.

I didn’t exactly understand what you were trying to say about backstab and 60% or whatever. I use backstab as a quick burst and as frequently as I can or the Daze from sword. Depending on what weapon I am using.

The shadowstep from sword I never “save” it. I use shadowstep, hit a few times, CnD if I can, daze, hit some more, shadowreturn, and shadowstep again. Sometimes I use multiple shadowstep-return before landing a cnd. There is no reason to “save” this one. The shadowstep skill (45s CD) should be saved for stuns. I’ve never had it fail on a stun. The shadowstep sword attack only breaks stun on the shadowreturn. So if you stepped to someone and then get knocked down you can hit return to get out of it but you can’t hit step to get out of it if you haven’t initiated it already. On some stuns, not sure which kind, you can shadowstep out of them. Knockdowns, you can’t.

As far as conditions go, even in 1 vs many, the shadowstep from sword #2 and simply using HiS should be enough IMO. With it traited into stealth, yea you would never have to worry about another cond ever, however, I think it’s overkill.

I don’t see the blind on stealth useful against a decent player. You can clear the blind by swinging at the air. Usually after a theif stealths, he will stay stealthed for at least 1-2s which gives you time to clear the blind before they pop back in. I noticed a thief that was doing this to me the other day. He was P/D tanky thief. I destroyed him with shadowsteps and a big backstab at the end. Every time he stealthed near me and I got blinded it was gone before he came back because I always spam #1 trying to hit him in stealth.

TBH, there is no best build. It’s all dependent on how you play the game.

This game has a lot of variety for each class. The game I used to play was daoc and in that game there is not a lot of build variety. You are pretty much locked into a certain build/playstyle if you want to succeed on your class. This game, you can succeed with any build as long as you don’t play like a kitten.

I meant the return part of S#2. I usually save it for when i get stunned/rooted/whatever. If it’s a 1 on 1 or there isn’t any pressure like that then yea it’s great to port around like nightcrawler.

I’ll give 50% speed another shot and well as the crit on swap sigil. I think that’s a good balance that allows me to keep 20 acro which I just can’t get away from.

All I was saying about the backstab thing is my natural crit rate of a backstab is 60% so with no trait I will crit 6 out of 10 on average. With the trait I crit 10 out of 10 or a 40% gain. The 60% I already have is sort of wasted in that regard. That trait would get the best effect from someone with no precision on their gear. I do understand the power of consistency though so it’s still very powerful.

I just need to mainline FelineGrace, I can’t stop and I can’t even play a build without it. This is a PSA I guess… don’t get addicted to FG.

I was using something close to this set yesterday (S/P though and D/D) in PvP but working it the other way round… Backstab rotation → Infil’s strike → Pistol whip.

Was very effective.

Great thread! I tried a few versions of this build last night in WvW, and had the most success with this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYUQRAsY4YlUmiPHdy9E95Ey2jKUn4JuHFlR1UaFoJA

Seems everyone here has a slight twist on how to use S/D and D/D, which is really awesome. My way is working for me so far, though I’ll admit I feel like I’m still a novice PvPer.