Guild Wars 2

Hey guys I have recently uploaded this video to show why I think *S/D thief is too strong atm.
I am aware that other classes need some things changed as well but now I will start off with the thief
It would be awesome if you could tell me what you think in the comment section on youtube or here on the forum thread.

Looking forward to a nice discussion!

Link to the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpUk9QvJ8bE

Rules:
- Please don’t insult anybody and try to provide constructive feedback so others don’t feel offended and know what you mean.
- I don’t say they should kill the last viable build a thief has I just want to know what you guys would change (maybe you are even saying that thief is fine as it is )

It is strong because alot of people know how to use it like the last meta.

yes but isnt the risk/efficency scale a little bit weird?

Sensotix.4106:

yes but isnt the risk/efficency scale a little bit weird?

I don’t think so. s/x was always meant to be tanky even without stealth. However LS is only best used vs boon usage. I would think s/d only seems that way because the current meta is to stack up on boons and conditions and LS negates that.

Let’s not forget Infiltrator strike which is an expensive condition removal on command.

I watched your video… forgive me…but…a thief..indirectly suggesting for a nerf to thief. Ya, lets just keep that train rolling shall we? Sword dagger is the least stealthy (barring builds of course) thief next to pistol pistol. I dont see the problem how infiltrators strike works.

Sensotix.4106:

yes but isnt the risk/efficency scale a little bit weird?

Not particularly.

You give up any semblance of burst for sustained damage.

You very rarely access stealth (most usually to interrupt a stomp/res/churning earth type skill).

The DPS is actually quite low on every skill except for Crippling strike (end of AA chain) and Larcenous strike. An entire set that only has 2 important skills to dodge makes avoiding the brunt of swords damage rather easy.

If S/D was less dodgy, it wouldn’t be able to kill anything. It’s pretty easy to time your counters against an S/D thief (I have very little trouble doing so, because I main an S/D thief). Starting one up and playing for a few days would highlight it’s weaknesses to you rather quickly.

jonwar.4186:

I watched your video… forgive me…but…a thief..indirectly suggesting for a nerf to thief. Ya, lets just keep that train rolling shall we? Sword dagger is the least stealthy (barring builds of course) thief next to pistol pistol. I dont see the problem how infiltrators strike works.

I am main mesmer i just wanted to show people what i was talking about

Upload a video using S/D against good players or a XvX fight, then come again and tell us the same.

i dont have to upload such a video just check the pax finale where lady nag nag nag pwns everything

Sensotix.4106:

i dont have to upload such a video just check the pax finale where lady nag nag nag pwns everything

I think basing the effectiveness of a spec on an international tournament winner’s ability to play it is misleading. Their opponents were obviously below them in skill level as well, leading to a very skewed view.

S/D thieves are definitely strong in most situations, continuously rooting, crippling and weakening their target, while evading, and moving back and forth between shadowsteps, blinding their target with tactical strike, and providing enough sustained damage that classes with lots of regen are shut down easily. S/D is the equivalent of WoW’s Combat rogue in terms of being able to go toe-to-toe with even the Warriors of the current Meta and come out on top. In my opinion, it’s a spec with quite a high skill ceiling. Out of all thieves they are the ones I have the most trouble with. You can predict a D/P Thief. You can predict a D/D Thief. But it’s like watching the Ocean when a S/D thief fights, and when they’re REALLY GOOD, only condition classes like necro or Engineers can hold a candle to that thief. It’s just from my own experience though.

Mepheles.2087:

providing enough sustained damage that classes with lots of regen are shut down easily.

Wait… what? This couldn’t be more inaccurate. Watch an S/D thief against a Healing Signet warrior if you’ve got a bucket of popcorn and a comfortable seat, because you’ll be watching a LONG fight. Note, I’m also talking from the perspective of S/D-Shbow (in short, plenty of poison), not Double S/D, which just shouldn’t waste their time.

I have the most trouble against S/D thief out of all thief builds on my healing signet warrior, but I’ve rated them to B tier where warrior and necro is in S tier, because warrior and necro is THAT much better currently. B is for below average btw.

If anything needs toned down about S/D thief, it’s the amount of evades they can get if they build for it (but still not that reliable) But leave larcenous strike and infiltrator strike alone.

evilapprentice.6379:

Mepheles.2087:

providing enough sustained damage that classes with lots of regen are shut down easily.

Wait… what? This couldn’t be more inaccurate. Watch an S/D thief against a Healing Signet warrior if you’ve got a bucket of popcorn and a comfortable seat, because you’ll be watching a LONG fight. Note, I’m also talking from the perspective of S/D-Shbow (in short, plenty of poison), not Double S/D, which just shouldn’t waste their time.

Healing Sig Warriors weaknesses are poison, and uninterrupted damage. sustained aggression against a warrior from any class is something that healing sig cannot make up for. so we have to counter pressure, but S/D cannot be pressured easily by almost any type of warrior. because of Sword 2. Stun them, they will teleport back, knock down, teleport back, root, teleport back and forth, all the while evading attacks and ripping our boons off and doing very good sustained damage. The problem is that being aggressive toward a warrior will most likely get you killed as we have no problems with getting up in peoples faces for a fight and that’s how we thrive, so most classes go back and forth between defensive and offensive while fighting

I agree with causing inf. strike to fail when out of range. The initial shadowstep shouldn’t work when out of range. Steal doesn’t work that way, so why does this skill?

As for fighting a thief with sword, when possible, RUN TO HIS INNITIAL SHADOWSTEP SPOT. If you fight around this spot, he can’t disengage when he wants to (unless he uses utilities of course). Doing this, makes fighting sword thieves much easier.

On Mobility

“Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.”

This quote from Anet points out that they want the thieves to be the most mobile class and Infiltrator’s strike is just one example of what makes this statement true. I don’t think it punishes good position, but rather forces you to be more aware when fighting vs a thief as opposed to I am on this hill I am safe.

On evasion the last line of this quote is relevant.

“Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which can make them very hard to hit.”

The evasion a thief has is higher than other classes, however this is supposed to be one of the things that defines a thief.

i think the port should just fail when the range is too big

Klinch.2964:

I agree with causing inf. strike to fail when out of range. The initial shadowstep shouldn’t work when out of range. Steal doesn’t work that way, so why does this skill?

As for fighting a thief with sword, when possible, RUN TO HIS INNITIAL SHADOWSTEP SPOT. If you fight around this spot, he can’t disengage when he wants to (unless he uses utilities of course). Doing this, makes fighting sword thieves much easier.

u cant run to this spot in tournys haha

Sensotix.4106:

Klinch.2964:

I agree with causing inf. strike to fail when out of range. The initial shadowstep shouldn’t work when out of range. Steal doesn’t work that way, so why does this skill?

As for fighting a thief with sword, when possible, RUN TO HIS INNITIAL SHADOWSTEP SPOT. If you fight around this spot, he can’t disengage when he wants to (unless he uses utilities of course). Doing this, makes fighting sword thieves much easier.

u cant run to this spot in tournys haha

If His return circle is off point, you can at least get as close to it as you can while remaining on point (and to be within strike range, it has to be 600 range away or less)

If you’re getting 2v1’d, well, them’s the breaks – you’re outnumbered, that confers certain advantages to the team outnumbering you.

First, I would to Thank You! Op for being an Honest Thief.

Second, I would like to Appreciate you for coming forward in revealing S/D Op mechanics.

Third I would like to Encourage more Bold thieves to continuing coming forward in revealing thief OP broken mechanics.

Fourth, the rest lies in Arena.net to either fix this class or continue stripping the Fun factor in Gw2 World in resulting in more committed players quitting the game.

My Verdict;

Guilty

End Favoritism

-Once and For All-

And bring back your Forefather Visions to Realty
—————————-Guild Wars———————————————

evilapprentice.6379:

Sensotix.4106:

Klinch.2964:

I agree with causing inf. strike to fail when out of range. The initial shadowstep shouldn’t work when out of range. Steal doesn’t work that way, so why does this skill?

As for fighting a thief with sword, when possible, RUN TO HIS INNITIAL SHADOWSTEP SPOT. If you fight around this spot, he can’t disengage when he wants to (unless he uses utilities of course). Doing this, makes fighting sword thieves much easier.

u cant run to this spot in tournys haha

If His return circle is off point, you can at least get as close to it as you can while remaining on point (and to be within strike range, it has to be 600 range away or less)

If you’re getting 2v1’d, well, them’s the breaks – you’re outnumbered, that confers certain advantages to the team outnumbering you.

Yeah, and Sensotix, you’ve got to think. Would you rather hold point for a few more seconds and die to the thief, thus letting him cap it; or would you just maybe have the point go neutral (if thief decides to try to neutralize it), kill the thief, then just recap it?

The second option seems much better to me. You don’t have to stay on point to fight a person (unless it is getting down to the wire of course).

And well, if you are in a 1v2, in many scenarios you should lose the 1v2 because it is 1v2… not because thiefz OPZ

i want to see a mesmer or necro chase a thief haha

Sensotix.4106:

i want to see a mesmer or necro chase a thief haha

I could want to see a thief spawn clones.
I could want to see a thief lay down huge AoE condition circles from afar.
I could want to see a thief ignore a frenzied HB’s from a GC warrior because he was immune for 4s.
I could want to see a thief pounding on his target from 1500 range.

But alas, some classes just aren’t designed that way.

Burnfall.9573:

First, I would to Thank You! Op for being an Honest Thief.

Second, I would like to Appreciate you for coming forward in revealing S/D Op mechanics.

Third I would like to Encourage more Bold thieves to continuing coming forward in revealing thief OP broken mechanics.

Fourth, the rest lies in Arena.net to either fix this class or continue stripping the Fun factor in Gw2 World in resulting in more committed players quitting the game.

My Verdict;

Guilty

End Favoritism

-Once and For All-

And bring back your Forefather Visions to Realty
—————————-Guild Wars———————————————

I’m rather amused by the implication that the Thief is shown “favoritism.” It seems to me that every time the class develops a competitive build, it gets almost religiously persecuted by other players and then nerfed sometime thereafter.

Yet another biased bullkitten topic about S/D Thieves. Have you ever even tried duelling the current Nekro/Warrior Meta Builds with it? Do so and explain to us in what way this build is OP compared to those. S/D is nowhere as easy as the Nekro or Warrior builds atm and barely is A-Tier.

Seriously, I’m getting more and more angry at such forum whiners crying for thief nerf’s just because they probably got facerolled by a thief. Whats even more funny is that a mesmer, the best duelling class, is whining about infil strike being OP/too spammable, whereas his own class has plenty of stuff like this. Every noob can play a phantasm build and watch their oppo being melted by the iDuellist. Troll yourself.

dude if you dont’ see how this thief build is somewhat too strong then it’s your opinion and mine is that it’s too strong and even the devs agree otherwise they wouldn’t nerf it right? :>

Sensotix.4106:

dude if you dont’ see how this thief build is somewhat too strong then it’s your opinion and mine is that it’s too strong and even the devs agree otherwise they wouldn’t nerf it right? :>

ArenaNet has reversed or negated changes in the past.

they wont reverse or negate this change
well but that’s the point of the discussion I have my opinion and the others have theirs and I am happy to hear theirs but still if you compare thief to mesmer
why would mesmer be better for your team than thief?

Wait, why are we suddenly comparing Thief to Mesmer? That has nothing to do with the merits of S/D whatsoever.

Also, they could reverse or negate this change in the future, since more changes to stealth seem likely.

okay still my opinion as a player that has been playing guild wars 2 competetively since the beta is that this thief is too strong atm and I am speaking from experience because I have also played this build

No one is challenging your right to have an opinion. I’ve also played the game since betas, and I’ve played a S/D Thief as my main since the beginning—even back when it was considered bad, and my tournament group would mock me for not using a Backstab build. But I stubbornly stayed with it, because I enjoyed the aesthetics and playstyle.

In my opinion, the build is fine. It was weak before, from being nerfed multiple times as collateral damage in updates that were intended to nerf other builds. The boon stripping made it viable again.

yea but the problem is if they lower the condi dmg in the next patchs and the aoe dmg overall this thief will be way too stronge because the main sources to kill him are gone..

Well, then it seems to me that the problem would be the evasiveness itself, not the boonstripping, which is what they are actually nerfing.

However, evasiveness is a core part of the Thief profession, since there is minimal damage mitigation and survival is tied to damage avoidance.

imagi haha that’s exactly what I said in the video

Last time I dueled a good necro in sPvP with my S/D thief I was chain feared and died before I could land a single hit. Necro is stupid broken right now.

Gimmicks like being able to port to higher ground can’t win a duel. Sure nerf S/D thief after you make it so necro can only use fear once in 30seconds or so. Being able to use it 3 times in a row is just insta GG.

Sensotix.4106:

Hey guys I have recently uploaded this video to show why I think *S/D thief is too strong atm.
I am aware that other classes need some things changed as well but now I will start off with the thief
It would be awesome if you could tell me what you think in the comment section on youtube or here on the forum thread.

Looking forward to a nice discussion!

Link to the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpUk9QvJ8bE

Rules:
- Please don’t insult anybody and try to provide constructive feedback so others don’t feel offended and know what you mean.
- I don’t say they should kill the last viable build a thief has I just want to know what you guys would change (maybe you are even saying that thief is fine as it is )

they are OP, pls nerf thief moar !
reduce evades, reduce damage by 50%, increase revealed to 5 seconds
thankx

Lemme dissect your video:

You port through down to your opponent, then say you can apply conditions and port back. Which conditions are you going to apply as a sword thief? Because they don’t have any damaging conditions on their attacks. Are you referencing the extremely short immobilization that is given?

Then you make the same point, except you have your opponent pop a long cooldown (unnecessarily) to escape the immobilze. What are you trying to prove? That bad players will pop their breaks early?

2 mins in and it’s just you complaining about ports. All of which consume initiative and are limited in both range and use by the Sword thief. Oh, and did you know that the ports don’t work on a good number of parts of the map? It’s not a free leap to anywhere your opponent is as you seem to think it is.

Apparently 1.8 k damage is a lot of damage. It’s not.

3:50 in and you’re just complaining outright and… you’re back to ports.

Complaining about a class being able to evade when that is what it’s built to do. Wow. It’s true, the class has a lot of evades… kinda like the Guardian has a lot of boons, the mesmer has clones and… well… each class has something generally.

And that’s the video.

Not a lot of substance here. You could do a similar video about pretty much every class if you wanted. Cudos for not just making another complaint post but your video doesn’t make a good argument.

Sensotix.4106:

i think the port should just fail when the range is too big

I thought you said it needed to be restricted by LOS and not work on the z axis.
So now you’re changing your opinion about it or are you adding to your nerf cry? Every class can counter s/d if they build for it. A phantasm mesmer still has the advantage against one; you just need to decide it’s important enough to make the swap over. I’m sure you know this, you’re a very good mesmer from what I’ve seen.

Look at a s/d thief as a package and compare it to other professions. It’s already balanced. Popular versions of it only have 12 initiative and inf. striking then returning then striking again like you talk about costs 8 initiative. It still gets wrecked by condi spam too.

Don’t know what else to say really. I don’t want to come off as hostile but this forum has been down right plagued with complaints since day one and it really gets old.

I honestly don’t know what the hubbub is about. I think S/D thieves out of all thieves are in a pretty good spot. They aren’t weak, but they aren’t WTF OP either. out of all the sets, this one is pretty balanced, and I feel the shave to LS is uncalled for.

Aratoa.7398:

Lemme dissect your video:

You port through down to your opponent, then say you can apply conditions and port back. Which conditions are you going to apply as a sword thief? Because they don’t have any damaging conditions on their attacks. Are you referencing the extremely short immobilization that is given?

Then you make the same point, except you have your opponent pop a long cooldown (unnecessarily) to escape the immobilze. What are you trying to prove? That bad players will pop their breaks early?

2 mins in and it’s just you complaining about ports. All of which consume initiative and are limited in both range and use by the Sword thief. Oh, and did you know that the ports don’t work on a good number of parts of the map? It’s not a free leap to anywhere your opponent is as you seem to think it is.

Apparently 1.8 k damage is a lot of damage. It’s not.

3:50 in and you’re just complaining outright and… you’re back to ports.

Complaining about a class being able to evade when that is what it’s built to do. Wow. It’s true, the class has a lot of evades… kinda like the Guardian has a lot of boons, the mesmer has clones and… well… each class has something generally.

And that’s the video.

Not a lot of substance here. You could do a similar video about pretty much every class if you wanted. Cudos for not just making another complaint post but your video doesn’t make a good argument.

No i am obviously talking about the necro applaying conditions on me and then I just port out of the line of sight..lol
I can’t believe you are really asking these questions..it’s an example!
see: i wanted to show that in a potential 3 vs 3 where the necro positions himself on highground to not get bursted down easily (yea that’s what good necros do actually) he ports up there using a 40 sec cd utility skill and the thief can just follow him using 3 initiative
he didn’t use the port to break the immobilise omfg I can’t believe I really have to explain this I feel so dumb right now……it is an example to show what can happen in a teamfight!

concerning the damage: Yes 1.8k autoattack is much…(compare it to mesmer ~700-1k) (compare it to ele ~1.2k) and that’s just the autoattack

the more I read the more I have to facepalm….sry that’s how it is atm

I know it’s not a free leap to 100% of all places but to 80% of it and being able to follow somebody through walls or on highground is a broken mechanic that’s how it is

Evades: yes every class has special abilities u took the guards boons for an example thank you very much for that because that’s exactly what I mean
You can counter the massive boons of the guardian with a shatter mesmer, the s/d thief, or a necro but how do you counter evades? well I hope you get the point

All in all I have to tell you from what I have read in your comment is that you seem to play s/d thief are not really experienced with whats going on in top 200 tpvp and that you love your thief too much to accept that some mechanics are too strong which may comes from you only playing thief and not playing other classes against s/d thieves

Ps: Thief directly counters necro worm port, mesmer blink, ele blink (3 disengages)
what counters thief really hard in tournys? hm?

Hype.8032:

Sensotix.4106:

i think the port should just fail when the range is too big

I thought you said it needed to be restricted by LOS and not work on the z axis.
So now you’re changing your opinion about it or are you adding to your nerf cry? Every class can counter s/d if they build for it. A phantasm mesmer still has the advantage against one; you just need to decide it’s important enough to make the swap over. I’m sure you know this, you’re a very good mesmer from what I’ve seen.

Look at a s/d thief as a package and compare it to other professions. It’s already balanced. Popular versions of it only have 12 initiative and inf. striking then returning then striking again like you talk about costs 8 initiative. It still gets wrecked by condi spam too.

Don’t know what else to say really. I don’t want to come off as hostile but this forum has been down right plagued with complaints since day one and it really gets old.

I totally agree..the damage is fine the evades…well okay that’s their key mechanic
but the biggest problem is no matter how fast your reactions are to disengage and port to highground you get punished for it because you are alone there…then again you have to ball with your team which is stupid concerning the current aoe dmg…

Hype.8032:

Sensotix.4106:

i think the port should just fail when the range is too big

I thought you said it needed to be restricted by LOS and not work on the z axis.
So now you’re changing your opinion about it or are you adding to your nerf cry? Every class can counter s/d if they build for it. A phantasm mesmer still has the advantage against one; you just need to decide it’s important enough to make the swap over. I’m sure you know this, you’re a very good mesmer from what I’ve seen.

Look at a s/d thief as a package and compare it to other professions. It’s already balanced. Popular versions of it only have 12 initiative and inf. striking then returning then striking again like you talk about costs 8 initiative. It still gets wrecked by condi spam too.

Don’t know what else to say really. I don’t want to come off as hostile but this forum has been down right plagued with complaints since day one and it really gets old.

I totally get your point but as you have already said for example a good thief should always win vs shatter mesmer in duels…and in teamfights a good s/d thief can always pick shatter mesmers out and port back and playing a phantasm build is not an option in current tournament play soo the only way to escape damge atm is to disengage
1. you cant run away because the thief is always faster than you because of the swiftness when dodging
2. you can’t port to highground because he can follow you easily (99%) of the time

Hahaha, the more you whine in here, the more apparent is your real reason to post in here. You’re yet another player, who whines about thieves, because we basically pushed Eles & Mesmers out of the meta.

What are you on about anyway? Whining about S/D Thieves, while you could easily spec on Phantasm build. Oh it’s no option in the current meta? Guess what: Not our problem.

Stop trying to hide your selfishness behind weird nerf claims. Infil strike has taken quite a beating in the past and is now finally balanced. Sorry, but to me it seems ur just expecting to always come out on top with a shatter spec against a build, that was more or less designed to counter it.

How about you move along and start a nerf campaign in the Necro and Warrior Forums? I’m sure they’ll happily agree on nerfs to their classes. You could also ask them out on S/D thieves and their “OPness” in the current meta.

As it stands right now, the thief is balanced in this condi spam meta. If the meta finally becomes normal again, we can talk about nerfs, but no one is ever going to balance/pre-nerf a class based on expectations towards a meta change.

you are kidding me right? i think I am objective enough to see when something is broken…if you pay attention to the things I do you would have also realized that i have supported mesmer nerfs in the past concerning confusion phantasm dmg etc when i felt is was too strong…
my real reason is to let people discuss to see what others think of it
also high ranked pvp players are aware that this thief is too strong so you can see i am not the only one…
I love the fact that you think I only hate thief because it kicked mesmer and ele out of the meta…that’s just not true because I play my mesmer with great success and if you check out the leaderboard you can see that i know what I am talking about also you can see me playing the old shatter spec with some variations in tournaments
the only thing I really dont like about the thief is the risk to reward ratio which is just a joke atm and you have to admit that…I can’t believe that you guys only think I hate thieves because you see a nerf incoming to your beloved thieves…and I also can’t believe that you think it’s balanced…if it would be balanced why can you kill several classes without paying attention to what skills they use because you have perma evades…

There is no counter to perma evade – fact

and i am not whining as you call it i am simply listing up facts why this spec is too strong —> to my mind

and its not a nerf campaign…if you could read that would be awesome because then you would have read that this is a discussion where everybody can say their opinion because I was interested what other people think of it

but all i heard so far was: thief got nerfed so often..its balanced etc but no real point why you would not nerf this spec

Sensotix.4106:

yea but the problem is if they lower the condi dmg in the next patchs and the aoe dmg overall this thief will be way too stronge because the main sources to kill him are gone..

Please clarify.

Are you suggesting we beat Sword with the nerf bat pre-emptively just in case condi damage and AoE is lowered (Haven’t seen a whole lot about that in the patch note previews)?

Without waitint to see what the actual changes are, if any? Without waiting to see how the changes mesh and what kind of new meta emerges? That seems particularly punitive for a spec you simply don’t like to fight.

i think they shouldnt nerf the thief evades when the aoe dmg doesnt get nerfed as well
but they should nerf the port so it doesnt work on the z axes…

Sensotix.4106:

concerning the damage: Yes 1.8k autoattack is much…(compare it to mesmer ~700-1k) (compare it to ele ~1.2k) and that’s just the autoattack

Auto-attack CRIT, And crippling strike At that (one of the 2 sword attacks that hits hard, and the only one that requires you to be open for reataliation to get to) – Also, please clarfiy, are you running 10/30/0/30/0 with a zerkers? Cause if so, you were also fulfilling Executioner and First strikes, for another 30% damage.

the more I read the more I have to facepalm….sry that’s how it is atm

I know it’s not a free leap to 100% of all places but to 80% of it and being able to follow somebody through walls or on highground is a broken mechanic that’s how it is

80% is an exaggeration only someone with little experience with S/D could come up with. I’m honestly kind of surprised it ports up on the ledge in your video, because usually the skill will only port you to your target if you could walk there with the listed range – there are other notable exceptions, but they are generally the exceptions, not the rule. Also calling it a “Free” leap is misleading, as it costs initiative.

Evades: yes every class has special abilities u took the guards boons for an example thank you very much for that because that’s exactly what I mean
You can counter the massive boons of the guardian with a shatter mesmer, the s/d thief, or a necro but how do you counter evades? well I hope you get the point

How do you counter immunes, and blocks? It’s called Timing. Learn to time your attacks. If an S/D thief is evading, he’s not hitting you with anything hard (That list includes Crippling Strike, Larcenous strike…and ends there).

All in all I have to tell you from what I have read in your comment is that you seem to play s/d thief are not really experienced with whats going on in top 200 tpvp and that you love your thief too much to accept that some mechanics are too strong which may comes from you only playing thief and not playing other classes against s/d thieves

It seems strange that you feel yourself capable of judging others understanding of S/D when you make points that expose your misunderstanding and dislike of the class.

Ps: Thief directly counters necro worm port, mesmer blink, ele blink (3 disengages)
what counters thief really hard in tournys? hm?

That’s what thieves do – they stick to their targets. I suppose you dislike steal, shadow shot, scorpion wire, and infiltrators signet as well? What do you want thief to be, a kittentier flavor of warrior?

Sensotix.4106:

There is no counter to perma evade – fact

There is no such thing as “perma evade” – Fact

Thief certainly has access to alot of evades, but every 1/2s FS is paired with a 1/2s LS, meaning they can only be evading via FS→LS…Half the time – not even close to “perma evade”. And unlike say, a Ranger or Mesmer, we don’t have the option to leave pets/effects around to do our damage while we’re evading/hiding – not a complaint against those classes, just something you seem unaware of. So even when a thief is blowing endurance and dodging, they’re not doing anything in the way of damage.

I am aweare of that fact but when you dont have enough initiative you can still port back out of the line of sight..thats my point..you cant kill a well played s/d thief just watch the pax finals…when caed tried to kill lady nag nag…he was full hp nag nag had like 4k and nag nag killed him