Guild Wars 2

I have found/tweaked a S/D build, and have used it with great success in wvw and spvp. Then, I realized that D/D might be more fun. So I used the same build, (it works very, very well) and I do enjoy the D/D play style more than the S/D. But I have questions: Do both sets yield similar damage #‘s? Actually, that’s my only question. They have the same amount of survivability, so for me the only deciding factor is enjoyment, (although I do enjoy D/D more, S/D is lots of fun) and damage.

Here’s the build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAsY4ImI2e0TdyTtC0s7xVxqVB;ToAg0Cno4ywlgLLXOukctsYgA

Well the biggest difference is obviously the fact that the Sword cleaves up to 3 targets at once while the Daggers only hit one.

I’d estimate the single-target damage is better on Daggers because of the rapid the attack rate.

Sword has the benefit of Weakness (unless you’ve specced into Deadly Arts) as well as the Stun/Blind on Tactical Strike.

Infiltrator’s Strike then has the Condition Removal and Root as well as being a gap closer.

Overall Sword + Dagger offers more utility and survivability than Dagger/Dagger. It has many things going for it and the damage is pretty impressive, especially when hitting multiple targets.

Daggers really only have one thing going for them, but it’s a biggy. Nothing matches the pressure you apply by hitting Backstab followed with Heartseeker. Those abilities deal an immense amount of damage and force any target to go defensive.

On the other hand they don’t offer much when things go south.

So overall I’d recommend Sword + Dagger if you’re going for a more durable build. It also happens to be quite a good counter to Dagger/Dagger Thieves.

If you’re out for burst and want to ensure quick kills at a higher risk, then roll with double Daggers.

I think the sword has more damage in terms of strsight out attacking but daggers will give you more damage in the form of bursting with crits and backstabs. I think they balance out overall.

the daggers will have higher burst, but the sword gives you the advantage of infiltrators strike and the ability to daze from stealth, indirectly increasing survivability, and increasing mobility.

In terms of raw, burst single target DPS, you can’t beat a dagger. You will always deal more damage with a dagger/dagger thief. However, sword attacks cleave so you’ll see quite a bit more damage with your regular old auto attack on a sword/dagger thief which will make you feel extremely powerful in face to face skirmishes assuming you don’t die incredibly fast, but even with that your damage is not on par with that of a dagger/dagger thief.

Technically, sword/dagger offers a tiny bit more survivability than dagger/dagger because of the condition removal/stun break attached to Infiltrator Strike, and the blind/daze attached to your tactical strike. Your Infiltrator Strike also immobilizes targets which makes landing your Cloak and Dagger significantly easy.

With dagger/dagger, you trade that for just straight up damage.

I think you answered your own question in your OP. You clearly state you like DD more and find no difference in survivability. DD flat out does more single target damage. S/D (when used correctly) is the set with the most utility by far.

However none of that matters you like DD more so play DD.

Use both!

Using S/D then switching to D/D to finish enemies is awaesomesauce

I just want to clarify things. Im not saying the above comments are wrong but some make it out to seem DD has no survivability at all. Yes its a GC weapon choice but you can spec to where to have a decent amount of health and toughness as well as a high amount of dmg (still not near GC damage). But yes, I do agree SD offers more durability and utility whereas if you use DD, you will be embracing the darkness a whole lot more.

RedSpectrum.1975:

I just want to clarify things. Im not saying the above comments are wrong but some make it out to seem DD has no survivability at all. Yes its a GC weapon choice but you can spec to where to have a decent amount of health and toughness as well as a high amount of dmg (still not near GC damage). But yes, I do agree SD offers more durability and utility whereas if you use DD, you will be embracing the darkness a whole lot more.

You’re actually not saying the statements above are wrong. You’re confused about the definition of the word durable.

Adjective

Able to withstand wear, pressure, or damage; hard-wearing.

A sword does not suddenly make you a tank. You do not suddenly gain more armor/toughness or increased health. You do however get a few abilities that make you survive easier, such as the ability to remove stuns/conditions with your infiltrator strike, as well as shadowstep out of a fight where you would otherwise take damage (Avoiding it, not soaking it).

You also gain the ability to blind or daze targets, which does not give you the ability to soak additional damage, but rather avoid damage altogether.

Also, just to clarify, saying something has more of something does not automatically make the thing it is being compared to have none of it. The word ‘more’ implies in addition to.

Imo they’re both great. I switch between the two very often because my build pretty much lets me (wvw). I feel that the dmg is slightly better on d/d but s/d’s Infiltrator’s Strike is invaluable tool to harass people. Always try to pop it around corners or near ledges(especially effective if you’re spec’d with Descent Of Shadows) and kind of poke at people until they blow all their cooldowns then interrupt heal > beat them to the ground.

Just to clarify, by saying both have good survivability, I meant the possibility to escape tricky situations with d/d using heartseaker away from the enemy. This, combined with stealth, allows me to escape many situations. However, due to all of your comments, I think I will (for now) be rolling with d/d because of the immense single target damage. If I hit level 80 (60 ATM) and decide differently due to the sword hitting 3 targets at once, I will try that out. Thanks a lot everyone, this has really helped me

Yuujin.1067:

RedSpectrum.1975:

I just want to clarify things. Im not saying the above comments are wrong but some make it out to seem DD has no survivability at all. Yes its a GC weapon choice but you can spec to where to have a decent amount of health and toughness as well as a high amount of dmg (still not near GC damage). But yes, I do agree SD offers more durability and utility whereas if you use DD, you will be embracing the darkness a whole lot more.

You’re actually not saying the statements above are wrong. You’re confused about the definition of the word durable.

Adjective

Able to withstand wear, pressure, or damage; hard-wearing.

A sword does not suddenly make you a tank. You do not suddenly gain more armor/toughness or increased health. You do however get a few abilities that make you survive easier, such as the ability to remove stuns/conditions with your infiltrator strike, as well as shadowstep out of a fight where you would otherwise take damage (Avoiding it, not soaking it).

You also gain the ability to blind or daze targets, which does not give you the ability to soak additional damage, but rather avoid damage altogether.

Also, just to clarify, saying something has more of something does not automatically make the thing it is being compared to have none of it. The word ‘more’ implies in addition to.

Yes im fully aware the sword itself doesn’t make you withstand attacks, but the builds around the sword do when it comes to armor and such. That’s what I meant by the sword making you more durable.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Yuujin.1067:

RedSpectrum.1975:

I just want to clarify things. Im not saying the above comments are wrong but some make it out to seem DD has no survivability at all. Yes its a GC weapon choice but you can spec to where to have a decent amount of health and toughness as well as a high amount of dmg (still not near GC damage). But yes, I do agree SD offers more durability and utility whereas if you use DD, you will be embracing the darkness a whole lot more.

You’re actually not saying the statements above are wrong. You’re confused about the definition of the word durable.

Adjective

Able to withstand wear, pressure, or damage; hard-wearing.

A sword does not suddenly make you a tank. You do not suddenly gain more armor/toughness or increased health. You do however get a few abilities that make you survive easier, such as the ability to remove stuns/conditions with your infiltrator strike, as well as shadowstep out of a fight where you would otherwise take damage (Avoiding it, not soaking it).

You also gain the ability to blind or daze targets, which does not give you the ability to soak additional damage, but rather avoid damage altogether.

Also, just to clarify, saying something has more of something does not automatically make the thing it is being compared to have none of it. The word ‘more’ implies in addition to.

Yes im fully aware the sword itself doesn’t make you withstand attacks, but the builds around the sword do when it comes to armor and such. That’s what I meant by the sword making you more durable.

no why ? beacause you can be d/d and have 300 thoughness from traits and be as effective if not more than a full burst d/d
there is no “special” trait for sword.

Yuujin.1067:

In terms of raw, burst single target DPS, you can’t beat a dagger. You will always deal more damage with a dagger/dagger thief. However, sword attacks cleave so you’ll see quite a bit more damage with your regular old auto attack on a sword/dagger thief which will make you feel extremely powerful in face to face skirmishes assuming you don’t die incredibly fast, but even with that your damage is not on par with that of a dagger/dagger thief.

Technically, sword/dagger offers a tiny bit more survivability than dagger/dagger because of the condition removal/stun break attached to Infiltrator Strike, and the blind/daze attached to your tactical strike. Your Infiltrator Strike also immobilizes targets which makes landing your Cloak and Dagger significantly easy.

With dagger/dagger, you trade that for just straight up damage.

Anyone know why thief dagger is the only melee range weapon not to cleave?
We have 100B Warrior cleaving and Whriling Attack hitting everyone in its path. Not sure why…

double post sorry.

exhya.1406:

Sifu.6527:

Yuujin.1067:

In terms of raw, burst single target DPS, you can’t beat a dagger. You will always deal more damage with a dagger/dagger thief. However, sword attacks cleave so you’ll see quite a bit more damage with your regular old auto attack on a sword/dagger thief which will make you feel extremely powerful in face to face skirmishes assuming you don’t die incredibly fast, but even with that your damage is not on par with that of a dagger/dagger thief.

Technically, sword/dagger offers a tiny bit more survivability than dagger/dagger because of the condition removal/stun break attached to Infiltrator Strike, and the blind/daze attached to your tactical strike. Your Infiltrator Strike also immobilizes targets which makes landing your Cloak and Dagger significantly easy.

With dagger/dagger, you trade that for just straight up damage.

Anyone know why thief dagger is the only melee range weapon not to cleave?
We have 100B Warrior cleaving and Whriling Attack hitting everyone in its path. Not sure why…

we got heartseeker and steal as gap close i don’t think i need more … thief are assasin not warrior you wont use Whirl on thief to hit multiple target. if you play a thief it’s to assasinate ppl 1 by 1 at least with d/d
btw dancing dagger hit multiple ppl isn’t it egnouth ^^ the 3 too

exhya.1406:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Yuujin.1067:

RedSpectrum.1975:

I just want to clarify things. Im not saying the above comments are wrong but some make it out to seem DD has no survivability at all. Yes its a GC weapon choice but you can spec to where to have a decent amount of health and toughness as well as a high amount of dmg (still not near GC damage). But yes, I do agree SD offers more durability and utility whereas if you use DD, you will be embracing the darkness a whole lot more.

You’re actually not saying the statements above are wrong. You’re confused about the definition of the word durable.

Adjective

Able to withstand wear, pressure, or damage; hard-wearing.

A sword does not suddenly make you a tank. You do not suddenly gain more armor/toughness or increased health. You do however get a few abilities that make you survive easier, such as the ability to remove stuns/conditions with your infiltrator strike, as well as shadowstep out of a fight where you would otherwise take damage (Avoiding it, not soaking it).

You also gain the ability to blind or daze targets, which does not give you the ability to soak additional damage, but rather avoid damage altogether.

Also, just to clarify, saying something has more of something does not automatically make the thing it is being compared to have none of it. The word ‘more’ implies in addition to.

Yes im fully aware the sword itself doesn’t make you withstand attacks, but the builds around the sword do when it comes to armor and such. That’s what I meant by the sword making you more durable.

no why ? beacause you can be d/d and have 300 thoughness from traits and be as effective if not more than a full burst d/d
there is no “special” trait for sword.

People tend not to gear up the same way for swords as daggers. I even said, not just traits but armor and such generally makes thieves built as swordsmen tougher.

Sifu.6527:

Yuujin.1067:

In terms of raw, burst single target DPS, you can’t beat a dagger. You will always deal more damage with a dagger/dagger thief. However, sword attacks cleave so you’ll see quite a bit more damage with your regular old auto attack on a sword/dagger thief which will make you feel extremely powerful in face to face skirmishes assuming you don’t die incredibly fast, but even with that your damage is not on par with that of a dagger/dagger thief.

Technically, sword/dagger offers a tiny bit more survivability than dagger/dagger because of the condition removal/stun break attached to Infiltrator Strike, and the blind/daze attached to your tactical strike. Your Infiltrator Strike also immobilizes targets which makes landing your Cloak and Dagger significantly easy.

With dagger/dagger, you trade that for just straight up damage.

Anyone know why thief dagger is the only melee range weapon not to cleave?
We have 100B Warrior cleaving and Whriling Attack hitting everyone in its path. Not sure why…

Thief is the only class that actually melees with dagger mainhand (ele doesn’t count since it’s all spells) the trade off is higher dps/burst but hitting only one target.

Adaneshade.2409:

Sifu.6527:

Yuujin.1067:

In terms of raw, burst single target DPS, you can’t beat a dagger. You will always deal more damage with a dagger/dagger thief. However, sword attacks cleave so you’ll see quite a bit more damage with your regular old auto attack on a sword/dagger thief which will make you feel extremely powerful in face to face skirmishes assuming you don’t die incredibly fast, but even with that your damage is not on par with that of a dagger/dagger thief.

Technically, sword/dagger offers a tiny bit more survivability than dagger/dagger because of the condition removal/stun break attached to Infiltrator Strike, and the blind/daze attached to your tactical strike. Your Infiltrator Strike also immobilizes targets which makes landing your Cloak and Dagger significantly easy.

With dagger/dagger, you trade that for just straight up damage.

Anyone know why thief dagger is the only melee range weapon not to cleave?
We have 100B Warrior cleaving and Whriling Attack hitting everyone in its path. Not sure why…

Thief is the only class that actually melees with dagger mainhand (ele doesn’t count since it’s all spells) the trade off is higher dps/burst but hitting only one target.

Our highest burst rotation consist of 3 abiltiies. Of which, 2 of them do not come from the dagger main hand.

Mug is a trait. CnD is offhand dagger. Backstab is the only mainhand dagger ability in that chain. The view of thief’s burst is taking a holistic view of the class and what offhand weapons and traits provide the best dps.

We have the perception that the dagger has the highest burst but in reality it doesn’t. The warrior mainhand axe has as much dps as the thief mainhand dagger. In the meanwhile, their axe mainhand burst skill does as much damage as backstab. Additionaly, axe cleaves thus potientially doing the same dps as a thief but hitting up to 3 targets.

In my opinion, dagger needs to cleave like all other melee weapon but keep backstab single target.

Sifu.6527:

Adaneshade.2409:

Sifu.6527:

Yuujin.1067:

In terms of raw, burst single target DPS, you can’t beat a dagger. You will always deal more damage with a dagger/dagger thief. However, sword attacks cleave so you’ll see quite a bit more damage with your regular old auto attack on a sword/dagger thief which will make you feel extremely powerful in face to face skirmishes assuming you don’t die incredibly fast, but even with that your damage is not on par with that of a dagger/dagger thief.

Technically, sword/dagger offers a tiny bit more survivability than dagger/dagger because of the condition removal/stun break attached to Infiltrator Strike, and the blind/daze attached to your tactical strike. Your Infiltrator Strike also immobilizes targets which makes landing your Cloak and Dagger significantly easy.

With dagger/dagger, you trade that for just straight up damage.

Anyone know why thief dagger is the only melee range weapon not to cleave?
We have 100B Warrior cleaving and Whriling Attack hitting everyone in its path. Not sure why…

Thief is the only class that actually melees with dagger mainhand (ele doesn’t count since it’s all spells) the trade off is higher dps/burst but hitting only one target.

Our highest burst rotation consist of 3 abiltiies. Of which, 2 of them do not come from the dagger main hand.

Mug is a trait. CnD is offhand dagger. Backstab is the only mainhand dagger ability in that chain. The view of thief’s burst is taking a holistic view of the class and what offhand weapons and traits provide the best dps.

We have the perception that the dagger has the highest burst but in reality it doesn’t. The warrior mainhand axe has as much dps as the thief mainhand dagger. In the meanwhile, their axe mainhand burst skill does as much damage as backstab. Additionaly, axe cleaves thus potientially doing the same dps as a thief but hitting up to 3 targets.

In my opinion, dagger needs to cleave like all other melee weapon but keep backstab single target.

It’s a strong argument but I would beg to differ on one thing – in a single target fight, a Thief will be able to deal much more dps than an axe towards the end due to Heartseeker. Whereas warrior are limited by their burst cooldown, Thieves can continually spam this skill resulting in substantial burst damage. It’s also worth noting that a Thief can trait into many damage multipliers, Executioner being key to a D/x surpassing most other player’s DPS. Granted it’s situational, but in my opinion it puts Thieves slightly ahead of other classes when it comes to single targets.

Rough sketch of 10s:

D/D Thief

2x CND (504) (0.5)
2x BS (806) (0.25)

10x Filler 111 (760 + 168 poison) (0.75)

Total: 10220 in 9s; does not include poison damage

Axe Warr

1x Evisc (731) (?? approx 0.25 – 0.5, I would say 0.5)
4x Filler 111 (1648) (2)

7323 in 8.5

Think the main thing is that the dagger attacks rather quickly. I’m also dubious about the cast time listed for the third step of the Dagger1 chain. I feel like it has a 0.25s wind-down after the hit, for a total of a 0.5s attack, rather than 0.25 listed on the wiki. This would reduce the D/D estimate by 2500.

RedSpectrum.1975:

exhya.1406:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Yuujin.1067:

RedSpectrum.1975:

I just want to clarify things. Im not saying the above comments are wrong but some make it out to seem DD has no survivability at all. Yes its a GC weapon choice but you can spec to where to have a decent amount of health and toughness as well as a high amount of dmg (still not near GC damage). But yes, I do agree SD offers more durability and utility whereas if you use DD, you will be embracing the darkness a whole lot more.

You’re actually not saying the statements above are wrong. You’re confused about the definition of the word durable.

Adjective

Able to withstand wear, pressure, or damage; hard-wearing.

A sword does not suddenly make you a tank. You do not suddenly gain more armor/toughness or increased health. You do however get a few abilities that make you survive easier, such as the ability to remove stuns/conditions with your infiltrator strike, as well as shadowstep out of a fight where you would otherwise take damage (Avoiding it, not soaking it).

You also gain the ability to blind or daze targets, which does not give you the ability to soak additional damage, but rather avoid damage altogether.

Also, just to clarify, saying something has more of something does not automatically make the thing it is being compared to have none of it. The word ‘more’ implies in addition to.

Yes im fully aware the sword itself doesn’t make you withstand attacks, but the builds around the sword do when it comes to armor and such. That’s what I meant by the sword making you more durable.

no why ? beacause you can be d/d and have 300 thoughness from traits and be as effective if not more than a full burst d/d
there is no “special” trait for sword.

People tend not to gear up the same way for swords as daggers. I even said, not just traits but armor and such generally makes thieves built as swordsmen tougher.

yes thats beacause everyone want to have the highest burst possible and nfact that isn’t effective at all maybe with full offensive you can 1v1 but you can’t 2v1 and stomp at least one

funky fat thighs.1267:

Sifu.6527:

Adaneshade.2409:

Sifu.6527:

Yuujin.1067:

In terms of raw, burst single target DPS, you can’t beat a dagger. You will always deal more damage with a dagger/dagger thief. However, sword attacks cleave so you’ll see quite a bit more damage with your regular old auto attack on a sword/dagger thief which will make you feel extremely powerful in face to face skirmishes assuming you don’t die incredibly fast, but even with that your damage is not on par with that of a dagger/dagger thief.

Technically, sword/dagger offers a tiny bit more survivability than dagger/dagger because of the condition removal/stun break attached to Infiltrator Strike, and the blind/daze attached to your tactical strike. Your Infiltrator Strike also immobilizes targets which makes landing your Cloak and Dagger significantly easy.

With dagger/dagger, you trade that for just straight up damage.

Anyone know why thief dagger is the only melee range weapon not to cleave?
We have 100B Warrior cleaving and Whriling Attack hitting everyone in its path. Not sure why…

Thief is the only class that actually melees with dagger mainhand (ele doesn’t count since it’s all spells) the trade off is higher dps/burst but hitting only one target.

Our highest burst rotation consist of 3 abiltiies. Of which, 2 of them do not come from the dagger main hand.

Mug is a trait. CnD is offhand dagger. Backstab is the only mainhand dagger ability in that chain. The view of thief’s burst is taking a holistic view of the class and what offhand weapons and traits provide the best dps.

We have the perception that the dagger has the highest burst but in reality it doesn’t. The warrior mainhand axe has as much dps as the thief mainhand dagger. In the meanwhile, their axe mainhand burst skill does as much damage as backstab. Additionaly, axe cleaves thus potientially doing the same dps as a thief but hitting up to 3 targets.

In my opinion, dagger needs to cleave like all other melee weapon but keep backstab single target.

It’s a strong argument but I would beg to differ on one thing – in a single target fight, a Thief will be able to deal much more dps than an axe towards the end due to Heartseeker. Whereas warrior are limited by their burst cooldown, Thieves can continually spam this skill resulting in substantial burst damage. It’s also worth noting that a Thief can trait into many damage multipliers, Executioner being key to a D/x surpassing most other player’s DPS. Granted it’s situational, but in my opinion it puts Thieves slightly ahead of other classes when it comes to single targets.

This is exactly what I said…..Dagger has higher single target dps than other weaponsets, therefore to make it cleave with the same DPS output would be simply way too OP.

EasymodeX.4062:

Rough sketch of 10s:

D/D Thief

2x CND (504) (0.5)
2x BS (806) (0.25)

10x Filler 111 (760 + 168 poison) (0.75)

Total: 10220 in 9s; does not include poison damage

Axe Warr

1x Evisc (731) (?? approx 0.25 – 0.5, I would say 0.5)
4x Filler 111 (1648) (2)

7323 in 8.5

Think the main thing is that the dagger attacks rather quickly. I’m also dubious about the cast time listed for the third step of the Dagger1 chain. I feel like it has a 0.25s wind-down after the hit, for a total of a 0.5s attack, rather than 0.25 listed on the wiki. This would reduce the D/D estimate by 2500.

EasymodeX.4062:

Rough sketch of 10s:

D/D Thief

2x CND (504) (0.5)
2x BS (806) (0.25)

10x Filler 111 (760 + 168 poison) (0.75)

Total: 10220 in 9s; does not include poison damage

Axe Warr

1x Evisc (731) (?? approx 0.25 – 0.5, I would say 0.5)
4x Filler 111 (1648) (2)

7323 in 8.5

Think the main thing is that the dagger attacks rather quickly. I’m also dubious about the cast time listed for the third step of the Dagger1 chain. I feel like it has a 0.25s wind-down after the hit, for a total of a 0.5s attack, rather than 0.25 listed on the wiki. This would reduce the D/D estimate by 2500.

Those times listed are just the activation times, they do not include channels and wind-downs. So you can’t really calculate any dps without getting out a timer and doing it yourself in game.

Adaneshade.2409:

Sifu.6527:

Anyone know why thief dagger is the only melee range weapon not to cleave?
We have 100B Warrior cleaving and Whriling Attack hitting everyone in its path. Not sure why…

Thief is the only class that actually melees with dagger mainhand (ele doesn’t count since it’s all spells) the trade off is higher dps/burst but hitting only one target.

Nit-pick: Necromancer’s Dagger 1 chain (the most common power weapon for Necro) is a range 130 that also doesn’t cleave. It’s actually higher damage than our Dagger 1 chain (940 vs. 760) though there is a slight animation delay and no conditions.

The rest of the Necro.Dagger skills are 600 range (with annoying cooldowns).

Also, it look like even on single target Sword #1 chain has higher DPS than Dagger #1 chain

From wiki:

Dagger:
- #1 chain attack sequence duration: 2.07 seconds.
- 188 + 286 +286 = 760 / 2.07 = 367 DPS

Sword:
- #1 chain attack sequence duration: 2.52 seconds.
- 269 + 269 + 437 = 975 / 2.52 = 387 DPS

Dagger: 367 DPS
Sword: 387 DPS
(dagger DPS does not include poison, but assuming you are stacking power sword damage would still come out on top after scaling)

I find this odd, considering dagger only hits one target, that it would deal less damage, or even equal damage, with an auto-attack chain than sword does. I guess dagger MH has to rely solely on HS and BS to be competitive.

Which I guess makes sense, since I’m pretty certain that C&D + BS combo has the highest DPS in the game, assuming you have no down time between the two.

Blacksarevok.8104:

Also, it look like even on single target Sword #1 chain has higher DPS than Dagger #1 chain

From wiki:

Dagger:
- #1 chain attack sequence duration: 2.07 seconds.
- 188 + 286 +286 = 760 / 2.07 = 367 DPS

Sword:
- #1 chain attack sequence duration: 2.52 seconds.
- 269 + 269 + 437 = 975 / 2.52 = 387 DPS

Dagger: 367 DPS
Sword: 387 DPS
(dagger DPS does not include poison, but assuming you are stacking power sword damage would still come out on top after scaling)

I find this odd, considering dagger only hits one target, that it would deal less damage, or even equal damage, with an auto-attack chain than sword does. I guess dagger MH has to rely solely on HS and BS to be competitive.

Which I guess makes sense, since I’m pretty certain that C&D + BS combo has the highest DPS in the game, assuming you have no down time between the two.

You said that does not include poison damage…but if you included that wouldn’t that make it 450+ DPS for dagger? Sorry if this is a dumb question.

kasandaro.8124:

Adaneshade.2409:

Sifu.6527:

Anyone know why thief dagger is the only melee range weapon not to cleave?
We have 100B Warrior cleaving and Whriling Attack hitting everyone in its path. Not sure why…

Thief is the only class that actually melees with dagger mainhand (ele doesn’t count since it’s all spells) the trade off is higher dps/burst but hitting only one target.

Nit-pick: Necromancer’s Dagger 1 chain (the most common power weapon for Necro) is a range 130 that also doesn’t cleave. It’s actually higher damage than our Dagger 1 chain (940 vs. 760) though there is a slight animation delay and no conditions.

The rest of the Necro.Dagger skills are 600 range (with annoying cooldowns).

I stand corrected, but this only further proves my point since the only other main hand dagger melee doesn’t cleave either.

Berengar.6951:

Use both!

Using S/D then switching to D/D to finish enemies is awaesomesauce

I actually started doing this .. Though it’s a bit more risky (less surviving based) it’s a lot of fun