Guild Wars 2

On my S/D setup I run paralyzation because I feel its a no brainer to run that in WvW. I was looking at sigil of impact currently I run Para and Fire but was thinking about sigil of impact. Fire is about 9% damage increase but impact as far as I know has no cooldown on it so could be worth it for that extra damage.

What do you guys run on yours and has anyone tested sigil of impact in S/D?

I do para/force. I’m not a fan of randomness and also recently decided I didn’t like stacking either, I’m just too lazy and want to be at full power when I first step out to WvW. Also for places like the JP where you can’t pre-stack.

I guess the question for impact is does Daze = Stun? Still, force gives you 5% at all times so I like that. Basically half stack of bloodlust at all times with no effort.

I do para. 3s of daze at wvw is amazing.

Stiv.1820:

I do para/force. I’m not a fan of randomness and also recently decided I didn’t like stacking either, I’m just too lazy and want to be at full power when I first step out to WvW. Also for places like the JP where you can’t pre-stack.

I guess the question for impact is does Daze = Stun? Still, force gives you 5% at all times so I like that. Basically half stack of bloodlust at all times with no effort.

Hmm that is true usually daze counts as stunned in this game. Have to do some digging around on that. Yea force is really good. I am the same with randomness but it does proc pretty often I may give force a go though.

I run with mesmer runes, and so I don’t combine that with para sigil (though I heard that you can, and have tried both before).

I run sigil of rage (along with Critical Haste from critstrikes X) and sigil of accuracy.

With SB off-set I run sigil of generosity, though i’m thinking of doing fire or hydromancy.

If I was running svanir runes or altruism or whatever, for sure I’d use sigil of para tho

In a build with 50% crit chance, sigil of air is better than sigil of force. Much better. 50% guarantees that it triggers twice every ten secs. In a build with lots of power/crit dmg, as usually are the builds with 50% crit chance, sigil of air gives you easily 1.5k dmg per hit, or 3k every ten secs. For sigil of force to be that powerful, you will need to do 60K dmg every 10 secs, so that a 5% increase will result in added 3k dmg. I dont really think you can do 60K dmg every ten seconds. Even if the target you are hiting as sindrome of down+cerebral palsy. That would mean 6k DPS. A sword autoattack chain (which is the most dmging part of the set, if you discount flanking strike, as most do) takes 2.4 secs to complete, and is nowhere near doing around 14.4K total dmg on a regular basis. So, in light of this very magical evidence, i use paralize sigil + air.

Rage and Fire.

I am a huge advocate for Sigil of Rage as a S/D thief. This sigil alone has gotten me numereous kills. The damage potential from the combo of this sigil’s proc and certain traits will down just about anyone or certainly send them into defensive mode which means less damage to me.

For my playstyle, Paralyzation is secondary to an extra 1.5k damage every 10 seconds or so. I average around 2 TS’s per fight (more for guardians or bunker ele’s) and I feel like an extra 1.5k damage every 10 seconds or so is a little more beneficial.

Just my 2 cents.

JakobGW.5730:

Rage and Fire.

I am a huge advocate for Sigil of Rage as a S/D thief. This sigil alone has gotten me numereous kills. The damage potential from the combo of this sigil’s proc and certain traits will down just about anyone or certainly send them into defensive mode which means less damage to me.

For my playstyle, Paralyzation is secondary to an extra 1.5k damage every 10 seconds or so. I average around 2 TS’s per fight (more for guardians or bunker ele’s) and I feel like an extra 1.5k damage every 10 seconds or so is a little more beneficial.

Just my 2 cents.

Sigils with internal cooldowns do not stack with each other. If you proc sigil of rage, it will enter a 45s CD, disabling sigil of fire from triggering for the same time. This means only one sigil active at any given time, if you have both sigils with internal cooldowns. This is true even for sigils with different types of procs, like sigils that proc on swap (battle, geomancy, etc) and sigils that proc on crit (air, rage, fire,etc). Its allways more productive to combine sigils of different nature, like a permanent sigil (force,accuracy, paralize) and a proc sigil. Also, on kill sigils follow this rules, you can combine them with both on proc sigils and permanent sigils. If damage is your main worry, combine sigil of fire with force, or force with rage.

Paralyzation & Air/Night

1. 3 second disable
2. DPS (Air-Very High Crit to trigger it)
3. Flavor (I am working on Bolt and I just love hearing the Sigil of Air “Zap” them)
4. DPS (Night- For the Night Cycle)

I could also see a good case for

Sigil of Rage
Sigil of Fire
Sigil of Impact

Eduardo.4675:

JakobGW.5730:

Rage and Fire.

I am a huge advocate for Sigil of Rage as a S/D thief. This sigil alone has gotten me numereous kills. The damage potential from the combo of this sigil’s proc and certain traits will down just about anyone or certainly send them into defensive mode which means less damage to me.

For my playstyle, Paralyzation is secondary to an extra 1.5k damage every 10 seconds or so. I average around 2 TS’s per fight (more for guardians or bunker ele’s) and I feel like an extra 1.5k damage every 10 seconds or so is a little more beneficial.

Just my 2 cents.

Sigils with internal cooldowns do not stack with each other. If you proc sigil of rage, it will enter a 45s CD, disabling sigil of fire from triggering for the same time. This means only one sigil active at any given time, if you have both sigils with internal cooldowns. This is true even for sigils with different types of procs, like sigils that proc on swap (battle, geomancy, etc) and sigils that proc on crit (air, rage, fire,etc). Its allways more productive to combine sigils of different nature, like a permanent sigil (force,accuracy, paralize) and a proc sigil. Also, on kill sigils follow this rules, you can combine them with both on proc sigils and permanent sigils. If damage is your main worry, combine sigil of fire with force, or force with rage.

I’ve read your posts and you’re very knowledgable, but I’m really going to have to test this because I’m quite certain I’ve had both proc for me in the same fight in a manner of seconds from one another. I suppose it’s possible that Fire proc’d, putting rage only on a five second cooldown before it proc’d.

Eduardo.4675:

In a build with 50% crit chance, sigil of air is better than sigil of force. Much better. 50% guarantees that it triggers twice every ten secs. In a build with lots of power/crit dmg, as usually are the builds with 50% crit chance, sigil of air gives you easily 1.5k dmg per hit, or 3k every ten secs. For sigil of force to be that powerful, you will need to do 60K dmg every 10 secs, so that a 5% increase will result in added 3k dmg. I dont really think you can do 60K dmg every ten seconds. Even if the target you are hiting as sindrome of down+cerebral palsy. That would mean 6k DPS. A sword autoattack chain (which is the most dmging part of the set, if you discount flanking strike, as most do) takes 2.4 secs to complete, and is nowhere near doing around 14.4K total dmg on a regular basis. So, in light of this very magical evidence, i use paralize sigil + air.

Thanks for the post. Love posts like these much appreciated gives good food for thought. Another question for you is if you had sigil of fire on a 1h weapon what would you put on the other force seems to be the most common choice I see people go with that or accuracy.

Eduardo.4675:

In a build with 50% crit chance, sigil of air is better than sigil of force. Much better. 50% guarantees that it triggers twice every ten secs. In a build with lots of power/crit dmg, as usually are the builds with 50% crit chance, sigil of air gives you easily 1.5k dmg per hit, or 3k every ten secs. For sigil of force to be that powerful, you will need to do 60K dmg every 10 secs, so that a 5% increase will result in added 3k dmg. I dont really think you can do 60K dmg every ten seconds. Even if the target you are hiting as sindrome of down+cerebral palsy. That would mean 6k DPS. A sword autoattack chain (which is the most dmging part of the set, if you discount flanking strike, as most do) takes 2.4 secs to complete, and is nowhere near doing around 14.4K total dmg on a regular basis. So, in light of this very magical evidence, i use paralize sigil + air.

It’s better on average I’m sure. I just don’t like rando. I’ve gone long stents without it procing and of course those are the ones that stand out in my mind. I also like to just know exactly what it’s going to take to kill someone with say 10% health instead of knowing on average what it will take.

Stiv is right on the sigils – http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil

Scroll down to the cooldowns sections and you’ll see:

“A single cooldown is shared by all sigils.”

oZii.2864:

Eduardo.4675:

In a build with 50% crit chance, sigil of air is better than sigil of force. Much better. 50% guarantees that it triggers twice every ten secs. In a build with lots of power/crit dmg, as usually are the builds with 50% crit chance, sigil of air gives you easily 1.5k dmg per hit, or 3k every ten secs. For sigil of force to be that powerful, you will need to do 60K dmg every 10 secs, so that a 5% increase will result in added 3k dmg. I dont really think you can do 60K dmg every ten seconds. Even if the target you are hiting as sindrome of down+cerebral palsy. That would mean 6k DPS. A sword autoattack chain (which is the most dmging part of the set, if you discount flanking strike, as most do) takes 2.4 secs to complete, and is nowhere near doing around 14.4K total dmg on a regular basis. So, in light of this very magical evidence, i use paralize sigil + air.

Thanks for the post. Love posts like these much appreciated gives good food for thought. Another question for you is if you had sigil of fire on a 1h weapon what would you put on the other force seems to be the most common choice I see people go with that or accuracy.

The best choice is almost allways force. Since this is mostly a pve/www thread (sigil of paralize doesnt work in tpvp), you can say it with a huge degree of certainty. The best choice to get more dmg is bloodlust/perception, but in these environments you can load the 25 stacks with one weapon and than go to the weapon of choice, so these 2 sigils automatically are out of the equation. Specially true for pve, where getting those 25 stacks is trivial.
The only way to have sigil of accuracy being better than sigil of force is to make those 5% more crit chance worth more than 5% dmg. However, in a build that wants to emcompass sigil of air, its impossible. Sigil of air only makes sense if you have high power, a crit chance of no less than 50% (to ensure a lot of procs, reducing the inate ramdomness of RNG mechanics) and also high crit dmg. The way this game handles crit dmg makes it so that a percentual increase in crits has dimishing returns, and those come very early.
For starters, any crit equal or below 100% more dmg will allways make force sigil do more dmg, as the crit rate is capped at 100%. With 100% crit dmg, if you have 95% crit chance, and then have to choose between adding 5% more direct dmg or 5% more crit rate, the result will allways be better for force sigil, by a margin of 1.0238%. Allways. It doesnt matter if you have 1 power or 3000 power. This margin gets higher the more you decrease crit dmg. Also, decreasing crit rate will actually make this margin smaller. Thats how numbers work, in misterious ways.
However, in this game it is possible to have crits that do more than double dmg, or higher than 100% more dmg. It is possible to conjure situations where a sigil of accuracy will do more dmg than a sigil of force. For this we need very high crit dmg and low crit rate. Seems contradictory, but it isnt. To calculate the average power of any given build, i use this formula: ((Pow x (100-Pre)) + ((Pow x Pro) x Pre))/100, where Pow is power, Pre is crit rate and Pro is crit dmg. Lets consider this example:
2000 Pow
4% Pre
250% Pro -> ((2000 x (100-4)) + ((2000 × 2,5) x 4))/100 = 2120, with sigil of force its -> 2120 × 1.05 = 2226 Average Power.
If instead we use a sigil of accuracy, we have this numbers:
2000 Pow
9% Pre
250% Pro -> ((2000 x (100-9)) + ((2000 × 2,5) x 9))/100 = 2270 Average Power. In this case, sigil of accuracy is more beneficial. Low crit rate, very high crit dmg. Lets get more crit rate in the next examples.
Using a scenario with 33.33% Pre, we have:
-> ((2000x (100-33.33)) + ((2000 × 2.5) x 33.33))/100 = 2999.90; with sigil of force -> 2999.90 × 1.05 = 3149.90 average power.
If instead we use sigil of accuracy:
-> ((2000 x (100-38.33)) + ((2000 × 2.5) x 38.33))/100 = 3149.90 average power.
With a crit dmg of 150% more dmg (250% Pro), the break point occurs at exactly 33.33%.
Finally,lets use a scenario with 50% crit rate:
-> ((2000 x (100-50)) + ((2000 × 2.5) x 50))/100 = 3500; 3500 × 1.05 = 3675 average power.
With sigil of accuracy:
-> ((2000 x (100-55)) + ((2000 × 2.5) x 55))/100 = 3650 average power. As we can see, at this point sigil of force has started to pay off.

Conclusion: sigil of force its allways better than accuracy in terms of raw numbers, accuracy is only worthwhile if you have a higher crit dmg than 100% and if you have very low crit rate. In a build with very high crit dmg, you need to look at your crit rate and perform some calculations to compute average power. I presented some numbers to serve as guidance, to better assess whats best for you, use the above formulas to determine average power on your build.

Eduardo.4675:

The best choice is almost allways force. Since this is mostly a pve/www thread (sigil of paralize doesnt work in tpvp), you can say it with a huge degree of certainty. The best choice to get more dmg is bloodlust/perception, but in these environments you can load the 25 stacks with one weapon and than go to the weapon of choice, so these 2 sigils automatically are out of the equation. Specially true for pve, where getting those 25 stacks is trivial.
The only way to have sigil of accuracy being better than sigil of force is to make those 5% more crit chance worth more than 5% dmg. However, in a build that wants to emcompass sigil of air, its impossible. Sigil of air only makes sense if you have high power, a crit chance of no less than 50% (to ensure a lot of procs, reducing the inate ramdomness of RNG mechanics) and also high crit dmg. The way this game handles crit dmg makes it so that a percentual increase in crits has dimishing returns, and those come very early.
For starters, any crit equal or below 100% more dmg will allways make force sigil do more dmg, as the crit rate is capped at 100%. With 100% crit dmg, if you have 95% crit chance, and then have to choose between adding 5% more direct dmg or 5% more crit rate, the result will allways be better for force sigil, by a margin of 1.0238%. Allways. It doesnt matter if you have 1 power or 3000 power. This margin gets higher the more you decrease crit dmg. Also, decreasing crit rate will actually make this margin smaller. Thats how numbers work, in misterious ways.
However, in this game it is possible to have crits that do more than double dmg, or higher than 100% more dmg. It is possible to conjure situations where a sigil of accuracy will do more dmg than a sigil of force. For this we need very high crit dmg and low crit rate. Seems contradictory, but it isnt. To calculate the average power of any given build, i use this formula: ((Pow x (100-Pre)) + ((Pow x Pro) x Pre))/100, where Pow is power, Pre is crit rate and Pro is crit dmg. Lets consider this example:
2000 Pow
4% Pre
250% Pro -> ((2000 x (100-4)) + ((2000 × 2,5) x 4))/100 = 2120, with sigil of force its -> 2120 × 1.05 = 2226 Average Power.
If instead we use a sigil of accuracy, we have this numbers:
2000 Pow
9% Pre
250% Pro -> ((2000 x (100-9)) + ((2000 × 2,5) x 9))/100 = 2270 Average Power. In this case, sigil of accuracy is more beneficial. Low crit rate, very high crit dmg. Lets get more crit rate in the next examples.
Using a scenario with 33.33% Pre, we have:
-> ((2000x (100-33.33)) + ((2000 × 2.5) x 33.33))/100 = 2999.90; with sigil of force -> 2999.90 × 1.05 = 3149.90 average power.
If instead we use sigil of accuracy:
-> ((2000 x (100-38.33)) + ((2000 × 2.5) x 38.33))/100 = 3149.90 average power.
With a crit dmg of 150% more dmg (250% Pro), the break point occurs at exactly 33.33%.
Finally,lets use a scenario with 50% crit rate:
-> ((2000 x (100-50)) + ((2000 × 2.5) x 50))/100 = 3500; 3500 × 1.05 = 3675 average power.
With sigil of accuracy:
-> ((2000 x (100-55)) + ((2000 × 2.5) x 55))/100 = 3650 average power. As we can see, at this point sigil of force has started to pay off.

Conclusion: sigil of force its allways better than accuracy in terms of raw numbers, accuracy is only worthwhile if you have a higher crit dmg than 100% and if you have very low crit rate. In a build with very high crit dmg, you need to look at your crit rate and perform some calculations to compute average power. I presented some numbers to serve as guidance, to better assess whats best for you, use the above formulas to determine average power on your build.

Just caught your reply on this thank you for this very very helpful! Will make good use of this.