Guild Wars 2

I wonder, is S/P underestimated for a reason, in PvP?
I gave it a go for some time now and all I have is great succes with it.
Yes, sometimes you have to spam Pistol Whip to survive, or to deal greater dmg, but it has nice synergy with Steal. Also thanks to the same skill, you can pretty much counter and surprise D/P Thief in case of having to Duel.

First, let me assure Everyone that I am well aware of D/P having much greater use of all of its weapon skills (Black Powder + Heartseeker, etc.) thus surpasing S/P in usefulness. (Although you could do Black Powder + Cluster Bomb with S/P)
But S/P can have a greater one time burst that also lets you evade attacks at the same time, also that additional condi clense done by Infiltrator’s Strike is very useful, too. Not mentioning that Head Shot will still fill its purpose if used with DD.

Once again, I know D/P potential and I accept that it is more effective, just wanted to know if S/P could actually make its way to Ranked without being “blamed ‘n’ flamed”?

What do people think I wonder?

PS: My opinion that S/P is underestimated in PvP is based purely on my own experience, by which I mean I met only One S/P Thief out of thousands of matches that I’ve played, so feel free to correct me at this statement

i think s/p is better then d/p But skill require to be effective at s/p is not worth how easy d/p is

Alatar.7364:

S/P could actually make its way to Ranked without being “blamed ‘n’ flamed”?

What do people think I wonder?

You’ll be random blamed/flamed even if you are the best thief and you’re running d/p meta build.
Play what do you want (what make you enjoy the most).. maybe you’ll be the one who’ll bring sword/pistol to be the new meta!

Taobella.6597:

i think s/p is better then d/p But skill require to be effective at s/p is not worth how easy d/p is

Actually S/P is,a low skill floor/ceiling weapon set in terms of thief weapon sets. The only thing keeping it non meta is the nonviable aspect of the weapons. Now don’t confuse nonviable with more skillful because something could still be requiring little skill and nonviable at the same time

Vitali.5039:

Alatar.7364:

S/P could actually make its way to Ranked without being “blamed ‘n’ flamed”?

What do people think I wonder?

You’ll be random blamed/flamed even if you are the best thief and you’re running d/p meta build.

True, although I tryed S/P only in Unranked because I didnt want to spoil the Ranked matches for others, if it was not playable well enough. What I ment by that is that I used to get blamed a lot for using Staff and not D/P in Ranked, though I am running D/P, too at the moment.
Well, but there will always be expert people like that I guess. =D

I’ll be totally honest in saying that I think a lot of S/P’s effectiveness is due to its unpopularity causing people to not know how to play against it.

A long while ago, it used to be the best set, then people learned how to counterplay it when Quickness got nerfed, and it fell to bottom-tier.

A guildmember of mine runs it every so often, and in our duels when he was first practicing the kit, I lost a lot more than I’d like to admit; the hitboxes are deceptive on PW and it was the first time probably playing against it in three years.

It’s got potential to do work, but can be pretty comp-dependent. Shocking Aura ele in particular can be pretty much outright immune to it, since it’ll interrupt return on the stun-hit component of PW’s initial portion of the cast, cancelling the whole channel and burning initiative.

I play a lot of S/P, it’s not viable in sPvP because you have to make sacrifices D/P doesn’t. WvW it can be good, but D/P or condi still outpaces it.

If you take dash, you have no stealth access without blasting smoke fields which eats all your ini, so decapping vs a team that’s watching for it is hard. Playing standard D/P traits with S/P is a lot of fun in WvW and I enjoy skirmishing with it, but the lack of stealth means you’re an easy kill for a D/P thief on the fringes.

If you take bound for the stealth access, you’re either playing DA in which case you’re much slower than a D/P thief over ground and will lose the decap wars, or you’re playing acro in which case you lose a lot of offensive utility for passives and you still can’t team fight as well as staff (although staff with S/P offhand is a pretty nice duelling set vs some specs).

Lastly, stab heavily counters S/P as it makes it easier to walk out of pistol whips and you get no interrupt damage. Shadow shot and heartseeker work regardless of stab.

These things are true to an extent for all thief builds (if you get caught you get killed etc), but S/P has less tools available than D/P, which doesn’t have to sacrifice DPS traits for stealth like S/P does. This is why it’s the meta in a game mode that needs stealth for tactical advantage.

Jugglemonkey.8741:

I play a lot of S/P, it’s not viable in sPvP because you have to make sacrifices D/P doesn’t. WvW it can be good, but D/P or condi still outpaces it.

If you take dash, you have no stealth access without blasting smoke fields which eats all your ini, so decapping vs a team that’s watching for it is hard. Playing standard D/P traits with S/P is a lot of fun in WvW and I enjoy skirmishing with it, but the lack of stealth means you’re an easy kill for a D/P thief on the fringes.

If you take bound for the stealth access, you’re either playing DA in which case you’re much slower than a D/P thief over ground and will lose the decap wars, or you’re playing acro in which case you lose a lot of offensive utility for passives and you still can’t team fight as well as staff (although staff with S/P offhand is a pretty nice duelling set vs some specs).

Lastly, stab heavily counters S/P as it makes it easier to walk out of pistol whips and you get no interrupt damage. Shadow shot and heartseeker work regardless of stab.

These things are true to an extent for all thief builds (if you get caught you get killed etc), but S/P has less tools available than D/P, which doesn’t have to sacrifice DPS traits for stealth like S/P does. This is why it’s the meta in a game mode that needs stealth for tactical advantage.

True, all of it. Although I take Fun Factor in to account as well, that sometimes compensate a utility or usefulnes for me, but I understand that facts are facts

I use D/P too when going for ranked but dunno why I find easier to win duels when I am on my S/P build than on D/P. Maybe I’m just bad on DP but I win easily on SP those duels I always lose when on DP

Kolly.9872:

I use D/P too when going for ranked but dunno why I find easier to win duels when I am on my S/P build than on D/P. Maybe I’m just bad on DP but I win easily on SP those duels I always lose when on DP

Like I said, I think this mostly has to do with people not knowing how to play against it due to how unpopular it is. It also has really wonky hitbox geometry that if not learned will cause people to think they’re safe when they’re halfway behind you like a warrior’s HB (and in the case of PW, they’re not).

Kolly.9872:

I use D/P too when going for ranked but dunno why I find easier to win duels when I am on my S/P build than on D/P. Maybe I’m just bad on DP but I win easily on SP those duels I always lose when on DP

S/P has a lower skill requirement to succeed. If you trait Bound you get all the OH utility that D/P has, but you get Pistol Whip. Even w/out quickness PW is very dangerous when fighting against.

I need some tips for this build
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsaVn0MBFmilNBmOB8PhlriybDygPo7mmuAY+5z+uH-TpBEABE8AAMvMAEHCAAOCAMt/gBnAAA

I’m looking for a Bloodborne like build, can someone educate me?

Vitali.5039:

I need some tips for this build
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsaVn0MBFmilNBmOB8PhlriybDygPo7mmuAY+5z+uH-TpBEABE8AAMvMAEHCAAOCAMt/gBnAAA

I’m looking for a Bloodborne like build, can someone educate me?

Just some thoughts;

Tripwire will be a bit awkward to use in that build, as hard CC overwrites each other (so a 4s daze immediately followed by a pistol whip results in less CC time than just leaving the daze). You might find haste or fist flurry a better option. Shadow trap is also a fun option if you know where to use it, helps make up for not taking dash.

Rage sigil is better than fire for S/P IMO as the quickness on autos really makes the set so much more dangerous. Just use autos when hasted, not pistol whip, as it is better DPS and quickness cuts your evade time from pistol whip. Leeching over hydromancy can add additional damage to your next spike, and makes up for the loss of fire/blood.

Azukas.1426:

Kolly.9872:

I use D/P too when going for ranked but dunno why I find easier to win duels when I am on my S/P build than on D/P. Maybe I’m just bad on DP but I win easily on SP those duels I always lose when on DP

S/P has a lower skill requirement to succeed. If you trait Bound you get all the OH utility that D/P has, but you get Pistol Whip. Even w/out quickness PW is very dangerous when fighting against.

Having the extra evade on pistol whip is also very helpful if you know when to use it. It’s not in the tooltip, but it’s there and it helps a lot.

sp is second best build for thief adter staff removal. I like it a lot and its my favorite build.

Vitali.5039:

I need some tips for this build
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsaVn0MBFmilNBmOB8PhlriybDygPo7mmuAY+5z+uH-TpBEABE8AAMvMAEHCAAOCAMt/gBnAAA

I’m looking for a Bloodborne like build, can someone educate me?

play dp meta build but change wepaon to sp.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsaVn8lClOhFmCGOBkmiFYCTLBEAyAzdwT4K0LMcGaDA-TpBEQBMc/BAcIAiwRAgAPAAzVGABnAAA

This is the setup I’d use for s/p. The lynx runes cover the loss of swiftness from dash and bound allows you to have stealth access and bursts. Basi venom isn’t needed due to pw’s stun so impact strike gives you a huge benefit in quick stomping to shift teamfight momentum. Pulm let’s interrupts do massive damage and bound’s extra damage bonus covers the lack of other offensive stats from, say, a scholar rune. Still requires timing and positioning but can be extremely deadly when you get your stuff to land on an unsuspecting target.

Ario.8964:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsaVn8lClOhFmCGOBkmiFYCTLBEAyAzdwT4K0LMcGaDA-TpBEQBMc/BAcIAiwRAgAPAAzVGABnAAA

This is the setup I’d use for s/p. The lynx runes cover the loss of swiftness from dash and bound allows you to have stealth access and bursts. Basi venom isn’t needed due to pw’s stun so impact strike gives you a huge benefit in quick stomping to shift teamfight momentum. Pulm let’s interrupts do massive damage and bound’s extra damage bonus covers the lack of other offensive stats from, say, a scholar rune. Still requires timing and positioning but can be extremely deadly when you get your stuff to land on an unsuspecting target.

This is a really nice idea cause it thinks of a lots of problems, but no matter how stereotypically it might sound: Wouldn’t it still be better to use Rune of the Scholar and Dash, and completely skip on Bound? Since Swords special stealth attack is not really that good, and if stealth is needed for decaps or other movement, you could do the Black powder + Cluster Bomb, or if really required swap Bandits Defense for Blinding powder and do Black powder + Blidning powder for extended stealth duration, if such situation should occur?
Also, I’d propably go with Brawler’s Tenacity instead of Havoc Mastery if using so many Daredevil uttility skills, 7% bonus doesn’t seem much to me anyway, but I guess that is just point of view.

I’ve always been a fan of S/P.

Unfortunately you have a serious problem when running into a D/P thief. And most thieves run D/P.

Dash (anti root), Bandit’s Defense (anti PW) and stealth on demand of course negate the whole S/P mechanic.

It’s a bad decision to start a match knowing the opponents +1 class hardcounters you even 1v1.

KrHome.1920:

I’ve always been a fan of S/P.

Unfortunately you have a serious problem when running into a D/P thief. And most thieves run D/P.

Dash (anti root), Bandit’s Defense (anti PW) and stealth on demand of course negate the whole S/P mechanic.

It’s a bad decision to start a match knowing the opponents +1 class hardcounters you even 1v1.

Not sure if I can agree with that. Like I said I run D/P in Ranked too, at the moment and I am the one to pretty much get countered by S/P =D PW ruins or evades my entire burst even at the most unpredictable times and hits me in the process, which is why stealth is not really helping me anyway.

Alatar.7364:

Ario.8964:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsaVn8lClOhFmCGOBkmiFYCTLBEAyAzdwT4K0LMcGaDA-TpBEQBMc/BAcIAiwRAgAPAAzVGABnAAA

This is the setup I’d use for s/p. The lynx runes cover the loss of swiftness from dash and bound allows you to have stealth access and bursts. Basi venom isn’t needed due to pw’s stun so impact strike gives you a huge benefit in quick stomping to shift teamfight momentum. Pulm let’s interrupts do massive damage and bound’s extra damage bonus covers the lack of other offensive stats from, say, a scholar rune. Still requires timing and positioning but can be extremely deadly when you get your stuff to land on an unsuspecting target.

This is a really nice idea cause it thinks of a lots of problems, but no matter how stereotypically it might sound: Wouldn’t it still be better to use Rune of the Scholar and Dash, and completely skip on Bound? Since Swords special stealth attack is not really that good, and if stealth is needed for decaps or other movement, you could do the Black powder + Cluster Bomb, or if really required swap Bandits Defense for Blinding powder and do Black powder + Blidning powder for extended stealth duration, if such situation should occur?
Also, I’d propably go with Brawler’s Tenacity instead of Havoc Mastery if using so many Daredevil uttility skills, 7% bonus doesn’t seem much to me anyway, but I guess that is just point of view.

The reason I took bound was not only for the stealth synergy but to give the set an alternative damage option if pw isn’t available or is deemed too risky to be worth the risk of using it. Also because s/p really would require you to damage and evade more more than d/p due to not having on demand spammable blind from shadow shot. Bound allows you to evade and do some damage without relying fully on pw to safely hit hard.
BD can be swapped with blinding powder but it leaves you vulnerable to bursts from other hard hitting builds like d/p. The lack of dash means you need to have a defense available if you get immobed so you don’t get mowed down by autos while sitting in stealth and you don’t have to blow ss.

Dash and scholar still works because I’ve played with those but it doesn’t feel as smooth with s/p as lynx bound. Also the damage output of bound lynx outpaces scholar runes fully and that high pressure stops people from consistently being able to cc you so dash isn’t always needed. Plus you have sb if you need an escape.

Just my 2 cents, can give both a try and see what you like to do.

Alatar.7364:

Not sure if I can agree with that. Like I said I run D/P in Ranked too, at the moment and I am the one to pretty much get countered by S/P =D PW ruins or evades my entire burst even at the most unpredictable times and hits me in the process, which is why stealth is not really helping me anyway.

D/P has the choice of when to attack as its DPS isn’t tied to landing a big shot and it has more stealth up time. D/P basically strafes S/P until it has the advantage.

S/P on the other hand is a lot stronger against some meta builds such as DH variants. It can drop the hammer on trap-centric builds and hits hard enough to bring down bunker Tempests. It also lives in evade frames so it can hold a point better than D/P.

S/P is terrible vs anyone not noob and it gets rekt by retal lol defeating the purpose of the set (cleave) of course anything works in unranked or low rating.

Rukia.9860:

S/P is terrible vs anyone not noob and it gets rekt by retal lol defeating the purpose of the set (cleave) of course anything works in unranked or low rating.

Retal against PW is fairly minor damage as PW can dish out up to 10x that damage while evading everything else. Not sure how it gets “rekt” by it. I ran an S/P build for about a year and dueled with it extensively. Once a player learns the timing, it is a very strong build but is vulnerable to specific builds. Retaliation has never been a significant issue at least for me.

Its main strength like most thieves is as a +1. Run with a stun lock warrior and the +1 synergy is beastly.