Guild Wars 2

I was talking about shadow trap not shadow refuge, sorry if there was some confusion, I agree there’s not much to gain out of a stealth utility in an s/p build but shadow trap with a 10k range stun break teleport can basically give you the ability to cover two points. Plus it’s on similar cooldown to shadowstep, the only thing you lose from it is condi removal, hence suggesting hide in shadows as heal skill.

Won’t this build suffer when para sigil is nerfed?

It will affect it, however suffer is too strong of a word to describe what is going to happen. The sigil right now is more like icing on the cake for preference instead of an integral needed part.

Excalibur.9748:

Won’t this build suffer when para sigil is nerfed?

I swapped sigil of para couple of weeks ago for 5% crit chance and consider that i only won from it
Check the second build)

Montage from top100-150 soloQues
Enjoy!
High quality will be available in few minutes (youtube processing is kinda slow :o)

dDuff.3860:

I must admit the build is quite OP for me, because it is so hard to catch in 1v1 but this is what thief should be.
.

I don’t agree that is what thief should be at all, can you justify why you believe this over the other classes?

There seems to be very little tradeoff for mistakes in this build, multiple times you get hit by things you shouldn’t [such kittenters] which should spell KO for glass builds, but can be shrugged off by the in/out teleporting.

azuzephyr.7280:

dDuff.3860:

I must admit the build is quite OP for me, because it is so hard to catch in 1v1 but this is what thief should be.
.

I don’t agree that is what thief should be at all, can you justify why you believe this over the other classes?

There seems to be very little tradeoff for mistakes in this build, multiple times you get hit by things you shouldn’t [such kittenters] which should spell KO for glass builds, but can be shrugged off by the in/out teleporting.

This is why i love soldier amulet – so many space for making mistakes (lets be honest – everyone makes them and i don’t want to lose a teamfight/game for one missclick or missed dodge)
I sacrifice a lot of crit rate for amount of survivability, thats why i invest precision so much.

But barring warriors who are insane atm, no other melee specs bring as much damage utility and survivability as this. Even guardians can’t ensure stomps/resurrects as well as off-hand pistol does and they lack any of the other benefits of thief builds

azuzephyr.7280:

But barring warriors who are insane atm, no other melee specs bring as much damage utility and survivability as this. Even guardians can’t ensure stomps/resurrects as well as off-hand pistol does and they lack any of the other benefits of thief builds

I don’t like being punched in a face with a sudden backstab 9k,
I want to res that guy in 2v2 skirmish
I hate being procasted by GC S/D ele
I want to deal with spirit rangers/stunlock warriors (they are overwhelming soloQ at the time)
On top of this i want to have an ability to stay on point long enough for my team to come to help in 1v3.
Oh, i can discuss for so long about amulet.
In hotjoins i’m trying to pick berserker but even there i find some classes being hard to deal with – i’d rather sit on my heavy armor and cast pistolwhips few more instead of being melted in kittens)
Ah, i think i misunderstood you. I thought you were talking about my amulet.
Well, as i reached top100 i don’t find it OP anymore, but still this build is so hard to deal with in any hands!

Very nice video and really skillful play.

Good to see that there are lots of viable builds on thief. I like how each different thief weapon set has completely different movement patterns.

I’m not saying you should be running zerker, I’m saying there is still almost no tradeoff.

You are still doing massive damage, cc, survivability plus stomp/res suppourt while having the slippery in/evade/out playstyle. If you want a comparison try a dagger build using a necromancer using the same gear in hotjoins and see just how much a build like this has going for it. Thieves still have far too much given to them compared to other classes, and tbh most of it is cheese style spamming

azuzephyr.7280:

I’m not saying you should be running zerker, I’m saying there is still almost no tradeoff.

You are still doing massive damage, cc, survivability plus stomp/res suppourt while having the slippery in/evade/out playstyle. If you want a comparison try a dagger build using a necromancer using the same gear in hotjoins and see just how much a build like this has going for it. Thieves still have far too much given to them compared to other classes, and tbh most of it is cheese style spamming

Since i’m not very experienced on necro, i believe that there is a way to make it work – but don’t know exactly.
I know that thief like mine is very hard to counter and catch until i take the risk and try to finish the fight, but I met some very good mesmers and GS guardians, not talking about engineers who gave me very good fights,
It is more like rock-paper-scissors situation.
And i feel like necro have its place in current state – may be don’t have enough good players to make it work.

Power necros are non-existent in tpvp, thieves are rampant in almost all teams and comps. There is no matchup even close to a power necro and a thief. It is not rock paper scissors comparing power necro to thief, it’s comparing battle tanks to paper planes.

An equivalent skill to off-hand pistol on a necro has a 50 second cooldown and takes a utility slot, the only thing better is the radius which equates to very little when stomping.

azuzephyr.7280:

Power necros are non-existent in tpvp, thieves are rampant in almost all teams and comps. There is no matchup even close to a power necro and a thief. It is not rock paper scissors comparing power necro to thief, it’s comparing battle tanks to paper planes.

An equivalent skill to off-hand pistol on a necro has a 50 second cooldown and takes a utility slot, the only thing better is the radius which equates to very little when stomping.

Are you kidding me? There are plenty of power necros in the top 100 solo queue leaderboards. Necro also has higher burst AND survivability than thief and is a hell of a lot easier to play.

Can you link me to one please.

Yeah, Jery E and Stodz to begin with

azuzephyr.7280:

Power necros are non-existent in tpvp, thieves are rampant in almost all teams and comps. There is no matchup even close to a power necro and a thief. It is not rock paper scissors comparing power necro to thief, it’s comparing battle tanks to paper planes.

An equivalent skill to off-hand pistol on a necro has a 50 second cooldown and takes a utility slot, the only thing better is the radius which equates to very little when stomping.

If this is true then go off the the spvp or necro forms and ask for power necro buffs. You’re ruining this thread with off-topic rants dude.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-cFRRR;0Rwka0V5R-kd0;9;49;0TT2;6178469OoW0U;1CoF2CoF28Ba
This is a build I made half year ago. Not entirely the same, but it seems the theory behind our builds are roughly the same. I use PewPew though with ricochet. Though it was condemned to be an useless weaponsetup, the ricochet with unload actually works pretty kitten well (especially against thieves and mesmers)

The point is for comparison, at no point have I asked for necro to be buffed. Thief builds like this bring too much to the table, and the devs agree if you’d like to check the tracker

@div Jerry E plays conditions for tpvp [I have played against his team], so even if I took leaderboard representation as a point you are looking at 1% of the top 100 compared to, oh, how many thieves?

dDuff.3860:

, i find it very common to win 1v1 against any class (except bunker guard – kitten that kitten)

Only use bountiful theft when they pop their stability, and stun them with PW. Use shadowstep offensively and then force them into the direction of shadowreturn (for a second gapcloser with PW). We lack some differences in traits though so maybe it’d explain why bunker guardians aren’t that impossible for me

Thanks for the tips Gwalchgwn!

azuzephyr.7280:

The point is for comparison, at no point have I asked for necro to be buffed. Thief builds like this bring too much to the table, and the devs agree if you’d like to check the tracker

@div Jerry E plays conditions for tpvp [I have played against his team], so even if I took leaderboard representation as a point you are looking at 1% of the top 100 compared to, oh, how many thieves?

Are you kidding me, power necro is ONE type of necro. There are even more condition necros in the top 100. And no, Jery E plays plenty of power necro. I’ve seen him run power-wells in multiple games.

You lose a lot of credibility by complaining about a build that you know nothing about and doesn’t even see play in competitive team gameplay.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

dDuff.3860:

, i find it very common to win 1v1 against any class (except bunker guard – kitten that kitten)

Only use bountiful theft when they pop their stability, and stun them with PW. Use shadowstep offensively and then force them into the direction of shadowreturn (for a second gapcloser with PW). We lack some differences in traits though so maybe it’d explain why bunker guardians aren’t that impossible for me

Stability is not really a big problem on a guard, but the amount of blocking and damage mitigation is.
Well, may be to open this tank i should use zerkers, but i still prefer soldier over all other amulets on S/P set.

dDuff I think you’re onto something with that amulet. Overall this build isn’t my style but when playing it I rarely wished I had more damage and less sustainability. D/P with soldiers is just a bit silly haha. I enjoyed the latest video too!

Hype.8032:

dDuff I think you’re onto something with that amulet. Overall this build isn’t my style but when playing it I rarely wished I had more damage and less sustainability. D/P with soldiers is just a bit silly haha. I enjoyed the latest video too!

I just wonder why no one can realize how OP is this.
Just take a look at these OP stats!
With fury uptime close to 80% and constant 5 might stacks it is even more!

dDuff.3860:

Stability is not really a big problem on a guard, but the amount of blocking and damage mitigation is.
Well, may be to open this tank i should use zerkers, but i still prefer soldier over all other amulets on S/P set.

Well, I actually have less damage compared to your setup (I run knight set with berserker trinket). But the biggest difference I can see right now is that I use thieves guild. Once the guardian used his healing I pop my elite. And in those fights that I won (in pvp, not wvw) it’d probably be because of my elite. Basilisk isn’t a strong skill in dmg, rather in utility. I prefer TG over basilisk since S/P already stuns his opponent constantly.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

dDuff.3860:

Stability is not really a big problem on a guard, but the amount of blocking and damage mitigation is.
Well, may be to open this tank i should use zerkers, but i still prefer soldier over all other amulets on S/P set.

Well, I actually have less damage compared to your setup (I run knight set with berserker trinket). But the biggest difference I can see right now is that I use thieves guild. Once the guardian used his healing I pop my elite. And in those fights that I won (in pvp, not wvw) it’d probably be because of my elite. Basilisk isn’t a strong skill in dmg, rather in utility. I prefer TG over basilisk since S/P already stuns his opponent constantly.

Not really big difference, and TG is very good for 1v1 situations,
But as you said BV gives so much utility build in so I can’t sacrifice lyssa runes!

BTW, Now i have understood that forgot say that this is not damage build, not killer,
This is locker build, try it with S/D – uncounterable OP pair that can’t be defeated.
My build is locking for S/D to deal damage/remove boons, and without boons, usually any target can’t outlast 3 stuns from Pistol Whips because of damage we deal.
On top of that there is amazing survivability for both thieves – evades+teleporting.

I leaving a request for some S/D thief from EU to add me in friends and play together with TS
I think results will be godlike.
But I repeat, that my S/P Build isn’t best killer (primarily because of soldier’s) But that wasn’t the purpose – CC synergy very good with any sort of damage dealing.

P.S. Haven’t tried is also with S/D burst ele. I think it will be devastating also,

Yep, S/P build works best in conjunction of another build. Our stuns keeps the enemy from dodging/moving so the other build can put some strong skills down that otherwise are very easy to dodge (like for example: dragon tooth from ele’s).
It’s a fun build to in 1v1, but it truly shines when playing in group.

http://www.twitch.tv/moonfury
Just a little advertise of my stream)

dDuff i gotta say nice build and enjoyable videos, you really own!

I have tried your build for pvp(never played theif before), because I like the playstyle insted of all the usual theif borring stealth playstyle everybody have. Your videos makes me wanna play my theif more, so was wondering if u have simular build for PVE?

http://www.twitch.tv/moonfury
Come to see some S/P in action!

I’ve been using this build and I’ve been liking it, although it took me awhile to get used to. The soldier’s stats can really take people off guard because they don’t expect thieves to have that sort of durability.

I still think infiltrator’s strike can be quite ridiculous at sometimes with all the blinking around from underneath people and such, but I don’t feel it’s a crux of this build and things wouldn’t be completely ruined if it somehow got nerfed or changed.

Also, pistol whip can be quite useful for diving into AoEs… sometimes, not all the time though.

One question though, how do you respond to opponents with retaliation or things like flame shield? Pistol whip is directly countered by those things, but I often just attack them anyways. Do you have any particular strategy for those opponents, or does it not factor into your decision making at all.

Yamsandjams.3267:

I’ve been using this build and I’ve been liking it, although it took me awhile to get used to. The soldier’s stats can really take people off guard because they don’t expect thieves to have that sort of durability.

I still think infiltrator’s strike can be quite ridiculous at sometimes with all the blinking around from underneath people and such, but I don’t feel it’s a crux of this build and things wouldn’t be completely ruined if it somehow got nerfed or changed.

Also, pistol whip can be quite useful for diving into AoEs… sometimes, not all the time though.

One question though, how do you respond to opponents with retaliation or things like flame shield? Pistol whip is directly countered by those things, but I often just attack them anyways. Do you have any particular strategy for those opponents, or does it not factor into your decision making at all.

Retal is factor that require other factor been taking into consideration: how much hp do you and your target have, how long till your both heal cooldowns, what class are you facing, other important cooldowns like shadowstep and steal, is it 1v1 or teamfight, etc.
Basically i don’t see it being a big problem, there are very few aoe retaliation builds in tpvp (luckily),
1 full Pistol Whip on 1 retaliated target will cost you about 1600-1800 hp and based on some factors (critical strikes, vulnerability stacks, protection, armor) your target will receive about 4-8k damage. When you have soldier+knights you have 17845 hp and usually you can afford this to yourself.
But when you fight vs 3+ opponents retal seems to be more important. You should just avoid pistolwhipping 3+ retaliated targets as it will kill you. For these types (when i stand in a mess at clocktower for example) this is much much better to cover area with BP and autoattack sinse it will constantly hit with final swing of chain.

http://www.twitch.tv/moonfury
Stream is up for some WvW roaming during Q time

My recent experience proved that if opposite team have none of these:
-thief
-ele
-SD engineer
- you can take berserker and be successful with it
(If you team lacks of damage ofc, otherwise – soldier is a better choice for soloQ)

dDuff.3860:

My recent experience proved that if opposite team have none of these:
-thief
-ele
-SD engineer
- you can take berserker and be successful with it
(If you team lacks of damage ofc, otherwise – soldier is a better choice for soloQ)

I find it very easy to deal with theifs, ele, engineer but Rangers and necros kinda always get to me, how do u deal with them?

so is this build finished or not now?

No, it’s not.
Only one of the two builds dDuff posted was using SoP. And there are variants out there (not posted on forum afaik) that don’t use it either.

So. With recent nerf (should i say fix) it is nearly impossible to land at least few strikes of pistol whip on good opponents.
Good game.

dDuff.3860:

So. With recent nerf (should i say fix) it is nearly impossible to land at least few strikes of pistol whip on good opponents.
Good game.

how is it nerfed?

Mambo.7586:

dDuff.3860:

So. With recent nerf (should i say fix) it is nearly impossible to land at least few strikes of pistol whip on good opponents.
Good game.

how is it nerfed?

Apparently all stuns rounded before, not just those affected by sigil of para. With the change to stuns no longer rounding the stun ends before the flurry begins.

With your hard hitting auto attack and the immob from sword 2 this build is still good given that you’re able to interrupt heals. I never really used pistol whip since the quickness nerf.

dDuff.3860:

Sup, guys
I’ve been playing for a while with my fancy S/P build and found it is quite annoying and powerful at chasing, finishing, disturbing, interrupting, completing secondary objectives and killing.
Don’t know if any of you interested of dropping S/D, but i can say that this build is greatly superior to D/P and goes on pair with S/D.

So here are the build
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-cFRV;1VwV0-7-R-Fd0;9;4JJ;0T27-17;546BLok6;2KJG4KJG46Rc – this is somewhat condition clearing build, as you have all your skills and traits, aswell as runes and sigils synergize with each other. (OLD ONE)

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-cFRV;1VwF_07-R-Fd0;9;49T;0T2;017A;446BLJk6;2KJG4KJG46RT -This is what i’m using at, this is more damaging variant, where you are losing some passive and active aspects of build but i find it as awesome as previous one. (I’m using this atm)

Here are the vid, with my playing.
http://youtu.be/5_LMTchZASs#t=0m0s
I have to say that is not my best acting, as i was having ping issues while recording it, but it is good source of understanding how S/P works.
Also this is sPvP, not tPvP, but as i said, i had some ping issues, preventing me from playing on my best, while recording these videos. Basically it is result of two days of playing (almost straight up montage).
Good luck on trying, of you are interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N3X0ECYE-Q&feature=youtu.be
tpvp footage
Top 150 montage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biuBVgNKaoA

My recent experience proved that if opposite team have none of these:
-thief
-ele
-SD engineer
– you can take berserker and be successful with it
(If you team lacks of damage ofc, otherwise – soldier is a better choice for soloQ)

I leaving a request for some S/D thief from EU to add me in friends and play together with TS
I think results will be godlike.
But I repeat, that my S/P Build isn’t best killer (primarily because of soldier’s) But that wasn’t the purpose – CC synergy very good with any sort of damage dealing.

Sup dude, how do you like the new balance patch ?)

dDuff.3860:

So. With recent nerf (should i say fix) it is nearly impossible to land at least few strikes of pistol whip on good opponents.
Good game.

I guess swordplay is now limited to S/D once again unless you only use Pistolwhip when the target is Basilisked…

Does Pistolwhip still evade?

EDIT: Yes PistolWhipe still evades, however I don’t know for how long. I guess Anet thinks that this ability Evades so then the fact that you stand still is balanced? It might work in big zergs but… “shrug”

JonPeters.5630:

Sorry for the typos, this is from my phone on the bus. Not for dec 10, because it takes time to do, but we are intending to make pistol whip into 2 skills(similar to flanking strike) so we can split initiative costs and balance canceling to chain stun. This is on the docket for the next patch.

Jon

Yo guys. Brb to Sexy pistolwhips soon!

Love S/P back to game!
Cya all guys!
Be awared!

It’s back, baby!

Love this video. Brb, need to practice my nightcrawler bamfing skills

Still loving my S/P build for sPvP. Have been running it for 6 months now, still the funniest thing I’ve ever done

For those of us who use S/P, I’d like to know what other builds are usable in soloQ/teamQ
And what other traits do you use in this very common 10/30/0/0/30?

P.S. With PW back I went straight 400 positions to #48 in soloQ, so I guess it can indicate how useful it is in solo :P