Guild Wars 2

Has anyone tried a heavy trickery build together with S/P. In theory you should be able to nearly stun lock your opponent. At least if you count the dazes as stun…

Is it a good idea to use Sigil of Paralyzation and Runes of the Mesmer with such build?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Retaliation

While not fix this stupid mechanic, s/p, p/x will always be useless.

Marduh.4603:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Retaliation

While not fix this stupid mechanic, s/p, p/x will always be useless.

I thought that you are not damaged during the evasion phase of pistol whip. Does the retaliation damage go through?

enzone.5924:

Does the retaliation damage go through?

Yes. You get at least 2k damage.

Marduh.4603:

enzone.5924:

Does the retaliation damage go through?

Yes. You get at least 2k damage.

Bah, I hope this is not intentional. If you hit multiple targets with retaliation (mesmer clones) then you’ll kill yourself while ‘evading’…

I’m succesfully using S/P with trickery and para sigil
Right now i’’m collecting material to make a vid of its gameplay.
S/p is way more interesting manner of playing than s/d 311333v331v3v113

Marduh.4603:

enzone.5924:

Does the retaliation damage go through?

Yes. You get at least 2k damage.

2.5k vs one target,5k vs two etc. and yeas. This is the reason why not to use S/P on PvP.

Evilek.5690:

Marduh.4603:

enzone.5924:

Does the retaliation damage go through?

Yes. You get at least 2k damage.

2.5k vs one target,5k vs two etc. and yeas. This is the reason why not to use S/P on PvP.

How could it be 2,5k damage, lol?
Retal is 255 per hit, and pw deal 5 strikes if fully executed
255*5=1275
But pw should not be spammed, that is the trick of the build, land some melee attacks, w8 for heal, then steal+pw and finish.

dDuff.3860:

But pw should not be spammed, that is the trick of the build, land some melee attacks, w8 for heal, then steal+pw and finish.

Which heal do you use? Are you playing in sPvP or WWW? Are you able to land the 3th auto attack on regular basis?

dDuff.3860:

Retal is 255 per hit, and pw deal 5 strikes if fully executed
255*5=1275

PW is 9 hits. 255*9 = 2295.

enzone.5924:

dDuff.3860:

But pw should not be spammed, that is the trick of the build, land some melee attacks, w8 for heal, then steal+pw and finish.

Which heal do you use? Are you playing in sPvP or WWW? Are you able to land the 3th auto attack on regular basis?

I’m using withdraw (soz for spelling), playing both tpvp and wvw, And i should say, that S/p carried me to top 200, untill i went to a losing streak with AFKers, leavers, and un
Unlucky games…
About your last question, i should say that it depends on my opponent, if it is smth sweet like thief, mes or ele, they primarly should be controlled via inf strike+inf signet, or inf strike+steal (both are 1500 initiation methods), or inf signet+inf strike+steal (2400) add a shadowstep if your opponent has less than 50% of hp (3600 range), so basically, weak armored classes tend to evade my AA chain, otherwise they are almost constantly dead (2-4k crits with the final strike)
Tough classes, like warri, necro, or guard, usually, eat my chain strikes before realizing that i’m hitting like a truck. I can’t say more, because stunlock is all about mindgames and interrupting heals with headshot (almost everyone doing this: getting damage, dodge roll – attempt to heal, so i just wait for this dodge to headshot the heal – free kill)?
So answering to your qustion is mostly situative, because a lot of factors should be included.

Damage dealt depends on the level and power of the Retaliation’s source (i.e. whoever gave Retaliation to the entity being attacked). At level 80 this is:

198.45 + (0.075 * Power)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Retaliation

dDuff.3860:

I’m succesfully using S/P with trickery and para sigil
Right now i’’m collecting material to make a vid of its gameplay.
S/p is way more interesting manner of playing than s/d 311333v331v3v113

Lol it’s 33333333333 when I play S/P in PvE. But I don’t spam 3 when I play S/D.

Rome.3192:

dDuff.3860:

Retal is 255 per hit, and pw deal 5 strikes if fully executed
255*5=1275

PW is 9 hits. 255*9 = 2295.

I could be wrong, But I believes its actually 10 hits (1 Hit for the pistol whip, 3 sword swings which each generate 3 hits)

evilapprentice.6379:

I could be wrong, But I believes its actually 10 hits (1 Hit for the pistol whip, 3 sword swings which each generate 3 hits)

combat log = 9 hit
1 hit stun
8 hits dodge

Marduh.4603:

evilapprentice.6379:

I could be wrong, But I believes its actually 10 hits (1 Hit for the pistol whip, 3 sword swings which each generate 3 hits)

combat log = 9 hit
1 hit stun
8 hits dodge

I believed that it is only 5 strikes with one being the stun.
Since numbers pop only 5 times…
But now i see that it is really more than 5.
And still i haven’t realized retaliation as a problem for S/P

dDuff.3860:

So answering to your qustion is mostly situative, because a lot of factors should be included.

I guess I am really bad at using the AA chain. Against warriors and guardians, they do much more damage to me than I to them if I fight them head to head with AA. Against ranged classes I just cant keep up with them, so I am never able to complete my AA chain. Thus the damage is mediocre.

After reading what you wrote it seems that you fight mostly with AA. If so then why using SP and not SD?

enzone.5924:

Has anyone tried a heavy trickery build together with S/P. In theory you should be able to nearly stun lock your opponent. At least if you count the dazes as stun…

Is it a good idea to use Sigil of Paralyzation and Runes of the Mesmer with such build?

One major problem is that Trickey gives condition damage bonus that S/P will never be able to take advantage of — unless — you take the new Perplex Rune. With that rune and S/P’s ability to semi-stun lock, you can easily stack a lot of confusion on your target.

Here’s a great guide for a S/P trickery build: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/83957-tessa-averys-swordpistol-shortbow-daze-burst-build/

However, as others have said, retaliation can be a pretty hard counter to it. If the enemy doesn’t have a ton of other boons, it’s not bad since you strip with Bountiful Theft, but landing a pistol whip through retal is painful.

I ran this build for a good, long while and it’s pretty solid, but ultimately, I found a good d/p build to work better in most situations.

Evilek.5690:

Marduh.4603:

enzone.5924:

Does the retaliation damage go through?

Yes. You get at least 2k damage.

2.5k vs one target,5k vs two etc. and yeas. This is the reason why not to use S/P on PvP.

Steal can steal two boons and give them to your party. I’m running S/P in sPvP and I’m not having any trouble with retaliation. Just auto attack (which is also extremely powerful) and drop black powder whenever retaliation is up. And steal it whenever you have the chance.

enzone.5924:

Has anyone tried a heavy trickery build together with S/P. In theory you should be able to nearly stun lock your opponent. At least if you count the dazes as stun…

Is it a good idea to use Sigil of Paralyzation and Runes of the Mesmer with such build?

Here is the build i use in spvp, tpvp, and sometimes in wvw: http://intothemists.com/guides/294-rand_x_al_thors_swordpistol_build

I went ahead and wrote a full guide for a while back, but feel free to ask questions

enzone.5924:

dDuff.3860:

So answering to your qustion is mostly situative, because a lot of factors should be included.

I guess I am really bad at using the AA chain. Against warriors and guardians, they do much more damage to me than I to them if I fight them head to head with AA. Against ranged classes I just cant keep up with them, so I am never able to complete my AA chain. Thus the damage is mediocre.

After reading what you wrote it seems that you fight mostly with AA. If so then why using SP and not SD?

Not mostly, but i’m trying not to spam abilities.
S/d lacks of control, and S/P build lets you stun/daze lock your target, while your teammates (GC ones) burst the target down. There is no counterplay here, because you are i’m already counterplaying, reacting to the situation as my team need.
Warriors are kitten pain, because of sustainability of heal – basically, all you need to do to win is damage your enemy until he goes for the heal, and then interrupt him with one of your stuns/dazes. problem with warriors that they are incredibly tough and have no heal to interrupt, so most of them trying to facetank your damage, and trying to outlast you. (hope signet will be shaved a bit, because for now it is kinda weird – i can only guess, how hard such warrior could be for other builds/classes.
As for the guardians, in my build their damage is crap anyways, but they have shelter, such guardians should be avoided until you come to them with a teammate, then it will end really quickly..
Actually, S/p is an “oh kitten” build, because when people see “the thief”, they think that it is somewhat d/p, or s/d, and when they realize that you’are locking them to death, it is usually too late.

A lot of useful information. Thank you all! I’ll try to test it during the weekend and get back to you with results. One more question when you are outnumbered do you use the SP set at all or just use the short bow? How are you guys escaping from bad situations? For example when you are in a 1v1 and suddenly two more enemies jump on you. With a stealth build you usually have a decent chance to hide and escape.

enzone.5924:

A lot of useful information. Thank you all! I’ll try to test it during the weekend and get back to you with results. One more question when you are outnumbered do you use the SP set at all or just use the short bow? How are you guys escaping from bad situations? For example when you are in a 1v1 and suddenly two more enemies jump on you. With a stealth build you usually have a decent chance to hide and escape.

With a S/x builds you shouldn’t have a lot of these situations when you get caught in 1v1, because during the fight you should always have shadow return from sword #2 and preferably it should be a safe spot (behind the pillar, downstairs, behind the corner etc.), so usually, your escaping strategy is shadow return+withdraw+shadowstep+swap to bow with energy sigil.
With S/P I love the sweet feeling of being untouchable for a while even in 3v1 fights. Keep distance and you can even down 1 or 2 opponents, if you are lucky. On the other hand, when you are coming close to a larger combat 2-3v4-5, better to find weak one and use inf. signet+inf.strike+steal —→> pistol whip with assasin’s signet (in my build, target would be immobilized, poisoned, weakened, dased, would lose 2 boons, and I will get 2 boons, vigor, fury, might, swiftness, 2k health, stolen ability, +10 stacks of might (i’m using traited signets))
If you chose the right target it would be at least damaged, but in such combat it is not that hard to find someone with less than half hp – so you go there.

In my opinion shortbow here to have that energy sigil+inf. arrow. But in some situations there is opportunity to cover combat field with cluster bombs, but i like to find weak one and finish him, before he could even react with a stunbreak.

Had a good time with 30 trick in January to March (then haste nerf).
Still feels good to me, Shadowstep, Refuge, haste; haste is certainly ditchable but I prefer to ditch refuge if Im doing so.

1 – Go full power, precision, crit damage
2 – Haste, Infiltrator’s Strike, Pistol Whip
3 – “You died so fast haha”