Guild Wars 2

I am not sure how the claim that s/d Needs to go and a build that only needs to spam 2 over and over again suddenly becomes a build that includes venoms, dodges and steals.

Spider venom, Impaling lotus and dodges have NOTHING to do with S/d. I can use any and all of thise with staff if I wished. S/d was enhanced for condition builds via the ability to stack at most 2 poison for 5 ini spent. It absolutely inane to suggest this of a sudden an issue.

I can use S/d in a power build and get 8k+ damage off a single steal and no this does nt take “great effort”. I can then use BV in a power build to stun an opponent , and apply 10k of damage via power attacks in short order and juke IN and out. Why is it only a problem that one can use these tactics using Conditions?

This is more condition hate and nothing more and advanced by that same small clique of players who feel there should be one type of build for thieves. It just a group of self important persons who go out of the way to try and suggest themselves as the "skilled and the elite " and that all should fall in line with their vision of the game just because they are in their own words “better players”.

It bull bleep. No one has demonstrated that adding 1 poison stack to an IMMOB if traiting Pamic strike, has suddenly made a build “op and brainless”.

babazhook.6805:

I am not sure how the claim that s/d Needs to go and a build that only needs to spam 2 over and over again suddenly becomes a build that includes venoms, dodges and steals.

Spider venom, Impaling lotus and dodges have NOTHING to do with S/d. I can use any and all of thise with staff if I wished. S/d was enhanced for condition builds via the ability to stack at most 2 poison for 5 ini spent. It absolutely inane to suggest this of a sudden an issue.

I can use S/d in a power build and get 8k+ damage off a single steal and no this does nt take “great effort”. I can then use BV in a power build to stun an opponent , and apply 10k of damage via power attacks in short order and juke IN and out. Why is it only a problem that one can use these tactics using Conditions?

This is more condition hate and nothing more and advanced by that same small clique of players who feel there should be one type of build for thieves. It just a group of self important persons who go out of the way to try and suggest themselves as the "skilled and the elite " and that all should fall in line with their vision of the game just because they are in their own words “better players”.

It bull bleep. No one has demonstrated that adding 1 poison stack to an IMMOB if traiting Pamic strike, has suddenly made a build “op and brainless”.

Dude, nobody is hating on S/D but on the condi spam more specifically the poison stacks and how easy is to stack them.

I myself play s/d power and I agree with you that s/d has nothing to do with this build in particular, it is only for the fact that the poison from panic strike procs everytime when you immobilize a target + potent poison is 2 stacks of poison everytime you successful hit your target and so the spam begins.

I really fear that anet may nerf sword because this stupid build, it will get nerfed you want or not I hope anet realizes the problem isn’t sword but the traits (panic strikes/lotus training)

And again I will repeat, this is not about not wanting to have “variety” this is about having a build that you can perform at minimal skill be effective and making bad players look good when they clearly aren’t.

Elxdark.9702

I really fear that anet may nerf sword because this stupid build, it will get nerfed you want or not I hope anet realizes the problem isn’t sword but the traits .

it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out u need the right traits to pull off s/d condi lol

Elxdark.9702:

babazhook.6805:

I am not sure how the claim that s/d Needs to go and a build that only needs to spam 2 over and over again suddenly becomes a build that includes venoms, dodges and steals.

Spider venom, Impaling lotus and dodges have NOTHING to do with S/d. I can use any and all of thise with staff if I wished. S/d was enhanced for condition builds via the ability to stack at most 2 poison for 5 ini spent. It absolutely inane to suggest this of a sudden an issue.

I can use S/d in a power build and get 8k+ damage off a single steal and no this does nt take “great effort”. I can then use BV in a power build to stun an opponent , and apply 10k of damage via power attacks in short order and juke IN and out. Why is it only a problem that one can use these tactics using Conditions?

This is more condition hate and nothing more and advanced by that same small clique of players who feel there should be one type of build for thieves. It just a group of self important persons who go out of the way to try and suggest themselves as the "skilled and the elite " and that all should fall in line with their vision of the game just because they are in their own words “better players”.

It bull bleep. No one has demonstrated that adding 1 poison stack to an IMMOB if traiting Pamic strike, has suddenly made a build “op and brainless”.

Dude, nobody is hating on S/D but on the condi spam more specifically the poison stacks and how easy is to stack them.

I myself play s/d power and I agree with you that s/d has nothing to do with this build in particular, it is only for the fact that the poison from panic strike procs everytime when you immobilize a target + potent poison is 2 stacks of poison everytime you successful hit your target and so the spam begins.

I really fear that anet may nerf sword because this stupid build, it will get nerfed you want or not I hope anet realizes the problem isn’t sword but the traits (panic strikes/lotus training)

And again I will repeat, this is not about not wanting to have “variety” this is about having a build that you can perform at minimal skill be effective and making bad players look good when they clearly aren’t.

You still do not know what you are talking about DUDE.

You get 6 total poison stacks at most if you spam number 2.

I can spam number 2 on a power build and do more damage. If players look bad to 6 poisons being applied to them then they are bad players.

It is not ANY more skillfill to spam 2 on a power build or spam 2 on a condition build. I have already illustrated how much damage you can do with 6 poison stacks for that 15 ini and it LESS then what a power build can do in a shorter period of time.

One stack of poison in a place like PVP where your gear choices limited does around 120 damage per tick. 6 times that is less then 800 damage per second. Do you understand how much lower damage that is then I can get spamming the same skill using POWER?

That poison procs everytime there is an immob is IRRELEVANT. Everytime a power build uses number 2 his much greater damage also procs. Both are limited by INI.
My own POWER build s/d is not even traited in CS and DA for all those sweet bonuses and does more then 800 damage on a single attack using 2.

Just to show how absurd the premise of this thread is, late last night while looking at the map in WvW I was hit by a team of about 5.

A pull followed by a 5800 test of faith. a Vault hits for 5200. A Hammer bolt hits for 5350. This were fromm three power builds that the “decent players” claim take all of that skill to use

Meanwhile a coditon build also hit me. The tick for the bleeds was 220 and the poison was 266. Darn those Condi builds. They are just brain dead and have to go!!

Now I am not complaining about those power builds nor calling for them tobe nerfed. I am pointing out the lack of perspective here when people whine about person in s/d condition “spamming #2 to stack 6 poison”. Each one of those power attacks in a single use did more damage in a single second than would have a condi s/d sword user using his entire INI pool to “spam number 2”.

Oh and I was on my own power build as a BTW. In other words out of 5 players in that area, 80 percent were power yet I am told that it nothing but condition builds running around.

If all you have are ad hominem you’ve long ago lost the argument.

I decided to partake in the placement matches this season and to use a S/D condi thief b/c y’know its balanced according to ppl.

I got on an account with zero PvP ranked games played as to start fresh with my MMR and I was placed in Plat. 3/4 of my losses were b/c of impossible to carry teammates while the last was me fighting Chaith & Toker Duo. Needless to say i could have easily gotten higher in plat with better luck with just 1 outta 4 of those loses.

Since Sly wants to say this means nothing I’ll go ahead and say this: I don’t play thief. Never have I played thief. In fact I play Mesmer and yet here I am placing in Plat on a class i dont even play.

Thank You

Azukas.1426:

I decided to partake in the placement matches this season and to use a S/D condi thief b/c y’know its balanced according to ppl.

I got on an account with zero PvP ranked games played as to start fresh with my MMR and I was placed in Plat. 3/4 of my losses were b/c of impossible to carry teammates while the last was me fighting Chaith & Toker Duo. Needless to say i could have easily gotten higher in plat with better luck with just 1 outta 4 of those loses.

That literally means nothing……. in regards to S/D being Op lulz

Almost anyone can place in Plat especially new accts, since they start at 1200 Rating to begin with and volatility of Matches.

If a player is even half decent in Pvp it makes it even easier to place Higher, like last season I placed above 1600 rating on D/D power Thief.

last season I played only 10 placement matches to see where i get on my necro…….I placed on platinum 2……I didnt play for 6 months and didnt play my necro for almost year……it really doesnt say anything tbh…..its just luck thats why I play unranked only since nobody cares what bracked you are in this game ;-)

Azukas.1426:

I decided to partake in the placement matches this season and to use a S/D condi thief b/c y’know its balanced according to ppl.

I got on an account with zero PvP ranked games played as to start fresh with my MMR and I was placed in Plat. 3/4 of my losses were b/c of impossible to carry teammates while the last was me fighting Chaith & Toker Duo. Needless to say i could have easily gotten higher in plat with better luck with just 1 outta 4 of those loses.

<edit>

Since Sly wants to say this means nothing I’ll go ahead and say this: I don’t play thief. Never have I played thief. In fact I play Mesmer and yet here I am placing in Plat on a class i dont even play.

Thank You

It wont be a meta , too ez to counter , just another fun build .
You can keep using it until you arive the legend , good luck .

Andrew.6487:

Azukas.1426:

I decided to partake in the placement matches this season and to use a S/D condi thief b/c y’know its balanced according to ppl.

I got on an account with zero PvP ranked games played as to start fresh with my MMR and I was placed in Plat. 3/4 of my losses were b/c of impossible to carry teammates while the last was me fighting Chaith & Toker Duo. Needless to say i could have easily gotten higher in plat with better luck with just 1 outta 4 of those loses.

<edit>

Since Sly wants to say this means nothing I’ll go ahead and say this: I don’t play thief. Never have I played thief. In fact I play Mesmer and yet here I am placing in Plat on a class i dont even play.

Thank You

It wont be a meta , too ez to counter , just another fun build .
You can keep using it until you arive the legend , good luck .

That last match against Chaith & Toker had Toker on a s/d condi thief. As we speak now there are other ex pro players condemning the build.

It will be nerfed.

Azukas.1426:

Andrew.6487:

Azukas.1426:

I decided to partake in the placement matches this season and to use a S/D condi thief b/c y’know its balanced according to ppl.

I got on an account with zero PvP ranked games played as to start fresh with my MMR and I was placed in Plat. 3/4 of my losses were b/c of impossible to carry teammates while the last was me fighting Chaith & Toker Duo. Needless to say i could have easily gotten higher in plat with better luck with just 1 outta 4 of those loses.

<edit>

Since Sly wants to say this means nothing I’ll go ahead and say this: I don’t play thief. Never have I played thief. In fact I play Mesmer and yet here I am placing in Plat on a class i dont even play.

Thank You

It wont be a meta , too ez to counter , just another fun build .
You can keep using it until you arive the legend , good luck .

That last match against Chaith & Toker had Toker on a s/d condi thief. As we speak now there are other ex pro players condemning the build.

It will be nerfed.

But he used the marauder amulet , not carrian or something else .
We wll see .

Most of the hate for S/D atm is laughable because it always comes down to mechanics which aren’t exclusive to S/D.

Most common complaint is the Impaling Lotus DD dodge. Next is the addition of a venom into the mix. Last is probably the various conditions on steal (generic Steal complaint).

When called out they generally complain about the DA immobilize-poison combo with IS. It’s hard to be sympathetic though because that combo is worth relatively little poison on its own and can be avoided if you dodge, block or even break target with stealth. You can also set up traps to punish the thief leaping in or time cc to wreck them on teleport. You also can fight next to their return point which is labeled on the ground. Or you can take aim with ranged pressure. S/D has so little stealth it will melt quickly.

In short I see these complaints as a huge learning opportunity for people who previously discounted Sword as worthless and never had to learn how to fight it.

I don’t run Sword because of the problems I mentioned above. So I’m a bit amused to see the sudden cries to nerf it now that it is semi viable against players who aren’t used to fighting it.

Andrew.6487:

Azukas.1426:

Andrew.6487:

Azukas.1426:

I decided to partake in the placement matches this season and to use a S/D condi thief b/c y’know its balanced according to ppl.

I got on an account with zero PvP ranked games played as to start fresh with my MMR and I was placed in Plat. 3/4 of my losses were b/c of impossible to carry teammates while the last was me fighting Chaith & Toker Duo. Needless to say i could have easily gotten higher in plat with better luck with just 1 outta 4 of those loses.

<edit>

Since Sly wants to say this means nothing I’ll go ahead and say this: I don’t play thief. Never have I played thief. In fact I play Mesmer and yet here I am placing in Plat on a class i dont even play.

Thank You

It wont be a meta , too ez to counter , just another fun build .
You can keep using it until you arive the legend , good luck .

That last match against Chaith & Toker had Toker on a s/d condi thief. As we speak now there are other ex pro players condemning the build.

It will be nerfed.

But he used the marauder amulet , not carrian or something else .
We wll see .

No he was full condi running Lotus Dodge. We had quite a few comical moments where we both were flipping upside down looking like a couple of clowns.

I couldn’t imagine what it looked like from a 3rd party perspective LOL.

saerni.2584:

That’s not really a good argument. All builds have an difficulty to reward ratio. That reward, however, changes a lot when people don’t know how to fight a particular build because it is new.

You’re assuming that Anet should balance around an outsize reward that occurs only when they fight people who don’t know how to play—or choose not to take cleanse—and who are fighting a weapon set (sword mainhand) that until recently wasn’t common or even played. That isn’t balance. That is rewarding players who refuse to adapt.

As to your issue, where a condi thief took down your team but you could beat them. That is when you say, “I’ll focus on shutting down that thief.” It isn’t like you, platinum ranked thief, has no ability to refocus your efforts for maximum effect. If your team is dead no thief can solo the entire enemy team. So save your teammates. Carry them. Tell them they should take more cleanse in the future if they want to beat those kinds of builds (need more defense when you don’t understand what you’re fighting).

thank you ty so much, I run condi thief and my build isn’t easy nor is it a face roll

(I think condi thief got stealth nerfed at some point though, my build was breaking 500k damage, and yes I feel like that’s fair damage if cause I cant face roll and win, now I might break 300k. Idk if its only certain parts of condi thief that got nerfed so some builds were effected and some weren’t yet I digress)

Yet again though thank you, its nice to find someone that gets it

Lord Velar.1509:

saerni.2584:

That’s not really a good argument. All builds have an difficulty to reward ratio. That reward, however, changes a lot when people don’t know how to fight a particular build because it is new.

You’re assuming that Anet should balance around an outsize reward that occurs only when they fight people who don’t know how to play—or choose not to take cleanse—and who are fighting a weapon set (sword mainhand) that until recently wasn’t common or even played. That isn’t balance. That is rewarding players who refuse to adapt.

As to your issue, where a condi thief took down your team but you could beat them. That is when you say, “I’ll focus on shutting down that thief.” It isn’t like you, platinum ranked thief, has no ability to refocus your efforts for maximum effect. If your team is dead no thief can solo the entire enemy team. So save your teammates. Carry them. Tell them they should take more cleanse in the future if they want to beat those kinds of builds (need more defense when you don’t understand what you’re fighting).

thank you ty so much, I run condi thief and my build isn’t easy nor is it a face roll

(I think condi thief got stealth nerfed at some point though, my build was breaking 500k damage, and yes I feel like that’s fair damage if cause I cant face roll and win, now I might break 300k. Idk if its only certain parts of condi thief that got nerfed so some builds were effected and some weren’t yet I digress)

Yet again though thank you, its nice to find someone that gets it

I facerolled to plat on condi thief.

I don’t play thief but obtained plat. The build makes up for lack of skill. I was able to compete and hold my own against ex ESL players.

Thats,the definition of carry

Were you just on thief? What is your rank normally? What other classes do you play? Solo queue? Under what circumstances did you get to platinum? (How many games and how early in season).

By the time you fought ex-pro players how much experience did you have on the build? Who are these ex-pro players and what classes/builds were they running?

Did you carry or were you carried? Or was it a fluke of the algorithm?

And finally, what build were you running?

saerni.2584:

Were you just on thief? What is your rank normally? What other classes do you play? Solo queue? Under what circumstances did you get to platinum? (How many games and how early in season).

By the time you fought ex-pro players how much experience did you have on the build? Who are these ex-pro players and what classes/builds were they running?

Did you carry or were you carried? Or was it a fluke of the algorithm?

And finally, what build were you running?

Did you read the thread at all?

Just doubting the accuracy of your claims.

saerni.2584:

Just doubting the accuracy of your claims.

I have no reason to lie, and I have been a very staunch supporter of thieves while being a mesmer main.

I’m interested in skillful game balance only.

You on the other hand want to protect your money train.

Azukas.1426:

saerni.2584:

Just doubting the accuracy of your claims.

I have no reason to lie, and I have been a very staunch supporter of thieves while being a meaner main.

I’m interested in skillful game balance only.

You on the other hand want to protect your money train.

I do not think Saerni plays s/d.

I DO play s/d in a power build and it just as effective at porting in and out to do damage. That it hard to deal with because of those ports does not translate to being OP. In other words the issue not 6 stacks poison for using all INI. It the porting in and out.

If I swapped this build to Condition and went after those 6 poison stacks using 15 ini , I would be beter off going p/d which can apply immobs cheaper while having other sources of condition adds like torment and bleed and vuln.

P/d as a condition build outperforms s/d as a condition build. S/d was not played much due to other sets being superior, and now is and people are having issues with it.
S/d never had a reliable condition source and now does. I see no reason why it should not.

I do not PvP but when on my POWER build s/d get the same sort of rage whispers as to how I am spamming those ports to avoid in combat damage and thats what it REALLY about just as DB d/d thief spams evades while applying bleeds (more then s/d gets of poison by the way for INI spent).

If it about skillful play, a skilled player can deal with s/d condition just as he can deal with d/d Dblossom condition builds.

Babaz is correct. I don’t play S/X in either condi or power variants.

I’ve fought them and I seriously doubt someone with no skill can take any thief build into platinum (and stay there). Basically, I’m just saying I think you’re better at the game than you are saying.

babazhook.6805:

Azukas.1426:

saerni.2584:

Just doubting the accuracy of your claims.

I have no reason to lie, and I have been a very staunch supporter of thieves while being a meaner main.

I’m interested in skillful game balance only.

You on the other hand want to protect your money train.

I do not think Saerni plays s/d.

I DO play s/d in a power build and it just as effective at porting in and out to do damage. That it hard to deal with because of those ports does not translate to being OP. In other words the issue not 6 stacks poison for using all INI. It the porting in and out.

If I swapped this build to Condition and went after those 6 poison stacks using 15 ini , I would be beter off going p/d which can apply immobs cheaper while having other sources of condition adds like torment and bleed and vuln.

P/d as a condition build outperforms s/d as a condition build. S/d was not played much due to other sets being superior, and now is and people are having issues with it.
S/d never had a reliable condition source and now does. I see no reason why it should not.

I do not PvP but when on my POWER build s/d get the same sort of rage whispers as to how I am spamming those ports to avoid in combat damage and thats what it REALLY about just as DB d/d thief spams evades while applying bleeds (more then s/d gets of poison by the way for INI spent).

If it about skillful play, a skilled player can deal with s/d condition just as he can deal with d/d Dblossom condition builds.

What it’s really about is 2 then dodge then 2 out will do 30-40% of someone’s life if not cleansed or get some form of healing.

Let’s do the math using my current build for every Inf Strike dodge Inf return ok

Inf strike in 2 poison stacks (2,468 DoT)
Dodge 1 bleed 1 torm (836 + 544-1,089 DoT)
Caltrops 1-3 bleeds (418-836-1254 DoT)

You add that up and you get like 5k damage from condi. You add in the power damage its another 800-1k damage each go.

You can spam that like 4-5x in a row on s/d condi thief.

p.s. saerni I never claimed to be Bad at the game or Good at the game. I simply stated I don’t play thief and got Plat on s/d condi thief. You can search my post hx and you’ll see exactly where I stand.

p.p.s. Turk – Yes its simple and that’s the problem. My concern is the entire game is used to thieves being extremely hard to play, and in the grand scheme of things they are actually quite under powered in fights. Is this build anymore face roll than a menders druid, menders engi, DH, or necro? I would like to see thieves keep their elite Hard Mode status and this build needs to go, but in context with the rest of the game how does it truly stack up?

Yes, we are not claiming this to be over powered, just over-performing for how incredibly simple it is to be effective.

I 1v3’d in WvW yesterday with this, then killed a 4th while the last of the three was still downed. Two of those players were decent, I could see that I had better reaction timing/knew my profession more than they knew theirs. And the other two were potatoes. I didn’t get downed, didn’t reset, nor did I even fall below half hp.

Could I have done that playing power S/D? Probably, considering I could see I was easily more experienced at roaming than them, but it would have been much more difficult and would have required me to be much more careful with my engages/disengages, timing, dodges/boonstrips and utility use.

Turk.5460:

Yes, we are not claiming this to be over powered, just over-performing for how incredibly simple it is to be effective.

Does spamming condis on necro/mes/engineer for instance take more effort? Does burn bursting on a guard take more effort? Last I checked unblockable condis are stronger.

Last I checked, condis in general are kitten because of their very nature and how often they can be spammed. It quite literally takes 1 stat to compete with power damage, where as power takes 3 stats. It ignores armour, where power does not. There’s a lot more I could go into, but it’s beating a dead horse.

What you should be whining about is condis in general, not one specific build which can be…get this…countered with reflects, cleanses, immobilize…and the list goes on.

…and for the record, I do not play a condi s/d, because I can do a lot more with a better build. Even a power s/d does a better job of bursting than condi s/d. Ever seen a power s/d melt a block spamming guard or mes? It’s a lot more effective than standing around porting back and forth slowly killing someone with condis as they continue spamming cleanses and reflects.

Azukas.1426:

babazhook.6805:

Azukas.1426:

saerni.2584:

Just doubting the accuracy of your claims.

I have no reason to lie, and I have been a very staunch supporter of thieves while being a meaner main.

I’m interested in skillful game balance only.

You on the other hand want to protect your money train.

I do not think Saerni plays s/d.

I DO play s/d in a power build and it just as effective at porting in and out to do damage. That it hard to deal with because of those ports does not translate to being OP. In other words the issue not 6 stacks poison for using all INI. It the porting in and out.

If I swapped this build to Condition and went after those 6 poison stacks using 15 ini , I would be better off going p/d which can apply immobs cheaper while having other sources of condition adds like torment and bleed and vuln.

P/d as a condition build outperforms s/d as a condition build. S/d was not played much due to other sets being superior, and now is and people are having issues with it.
S/d never had a reliable condition source and now does. I see no reason why it should not.

I do not PvP but when on my POWER build s/d get the same sort of rage whispers as to how I am spamming those ports to avoid in combat damage and thats what it REALLY about just as DB d/d thief spams evades while applying bleeds (more then s/d gets of poison by the way for INI spent).

If it about skillful play, a skilled player can deal with s/d condition just as he can deal with d/d Dblossom condition builds.

What it’s really about is 2 then dodge then 2 out will do 30-40% of someone’s life if not cleansed or get some form of healing.

Let’s do the math using my current build for every Inf Strike dodge Inf return ok

Inf strike in 2 poison stacks (2,468 DoT)
Dodge 1 bleed 1 torm (836 + 544-1,089 DoT)
Caltrops 1-3 bleeds (418-836-1254 DoT)

You add that up and you get like 5k damage from condi. You add in the power damage its another 800-1k damage each go.

You can spam that like 4-5x in a row on s/d condi thief.

p.s. saerni I never claimed to be Bad at the game or Good at the game. I simply stated I don’t play thief and got Plat on s/d condi thief. You can search my post hx and you’ll see exactly where I stand.

p.p.s. Turk – Yes its simple and that’s the problem. My concern is the entire game is used to thieves being extremely hard to play, and in the grand scheme of things they are actually quite under powered in fights. Is this build anymore face roll than a menders druid, menders engi, DH, or necro? I would like to see thieves keep their elite Hard Mode status and this build needs to go, but in context with the rest of the game how does it truly stack up?

The methodology is faulty as the greater portion of the damage you indicate has little to do with S/d. IIn fact , if I wanted, I could trait the sme way in D/P and using pressure strike off headshot and the posion off the Daggers AA generate MORE condition damage than the indicated S/D build. People will not do that as d/p just works so much better in power.

Using your exampled damage I can tell you that in a power s/d build I will get more then your example and not have to wait until it runs its duration to do so. A single Larcenous can do as much and more.

The reason people are using s/d Condi over p/d condi , is not that it does more damage, but it harder for an enemy to retaliate which is also why some will take s/d power over d/p power.

Were I to use Conditions in an S/d build, I would in fact trait into some carrion type armor. I would not even take the Potent poison trait taking Executioners instead. This mix of power/condition would do more damage overall then your pure s/d condition build taking Potent poison as the power damage comonent would be that much more significant even as you maintain that ability to port out of trouble.

babazhook.6805:

Azukas.1426:

babazhook.6805:

Azukas.1426:

saerni.2584:

Just doubting the accuracy of your claims.

I have no reason to lie, and I have been a very staunch supporter of thieves while being a meaner main.

I’m interested in skillful game balance only.

You on the other hand want to protect your money train.

I do not think Saerni plays s/d.

I DO play s/d in a power build and it just as effective at porting in and out to do damage. That it hard to deal with because of those ports does not translate to being OP. In other words the issue not 6 stacks poison for using all INI. It the porting in and out.

If I swapped this build to Condition and went after those 6 poison stacks using 15 ini , I would be better off going p/d which can apply immobs cheaper while having other sources of condition adds like torment and bleed and vuln.

P/d as a condition build outperforms s/d as a condition build. S/d was not played much due to other sets being superior, and now is and people are having issues with it.
S/d never had a reliable condition source and now does. I see no reason why it should not.

I do not PvP but when on my POWER build s/d get the same sort of rage whispers as to how I am spamming those ports to avoid in combat damage and thats what it REALLY about just as DB d/d thief spams evades while applying bleeds (more then s/d gets of poison by the way for INI spent).

If it about skillful play, a skilled player can deal with s/d condition just as he can deal with d/d Dblossom condition builds.

What it’s really about is 2 then dodge then 2 out will do 30-40% of someone’s life if not cleansed or get some form of healing.

Let’s do the math using my current build for every Inf Strike dodge Inf return ok

Inf strike in 2 poison stacks (2,468 DoT)
Dodge 1 bleed 1 torm (836 + 544-1,089 DoT)
Caltrops 1-3 bleeds (418-836-1254 DoT)

You add that up and you get like 5k damage from condi. You add in the power damage its another 800-1k damage each go.

You can spam that like 4-5x in a row on s/d condi thief.

p.s. saerni I never claimed to be Bad at the game or Good at the game. I simply stated I don’t play thief and got Plat on s/d condi thief. You can search my post hx and you’ll see exactly where I stand.

p.p.s. Turk – Yes its simple and that’s the problem. My concern is the entire game is used to thieves being extremely hard to play, and in the grand scheme of things they are actually quite under powered in fights. Is this build anymore face roll than a menders druid, menders engi, DH, or necro? I would like to see thieves keep their elite Hard Mode status and this build needs to go, but in context with the rest of the game how does it truly stack up?

The methodology is faulty as the greater portion of the damage you indicate has little to do with S/d. IIn fact , if I wanted, I could trait the sme way in D/P and using pressure strike off headshot and the posion off the Daggers AA generate MORE condition damage than the indicated S/D build. People will not do that as d/p just works so much better in power.

Using your exampled damage I can tell you that in a power s/d build I will get more then your example and not have to wait until it runs its duration to do so. A single Larcenous can do as much and more.

The reason people are using s/d Condi over p/d condi , is not that it does more damage, but it harder for an enemy to retaliate which is also why some will take s/d power over d/p power.

Were I to use Conditions in an S/d build, I would in fact trait into some carrion type armor. I would not even take the Potent poison trait taking Executioners instead. This mix of power/condition would do more damage overall then your pure s/d condition build taking Potent poison as the power damage comonent would be that much more significant even as you maintain that ability to port out of trouble.

No every immob gives 2 stacks of poison. Every Mug gives extra poison. Every Panic strike proc gives extra poison. Only traits in DA get the benefit from the extra poison stack so dagger AA chain does not. Also to stack 2 poison 3 bleed and 1 torment with cripple weakness and immob cover condi you do it with little threat to yourself. MH dagger cant do this.

If you want to PM for a demonstration I can break it down for you.

Also there are a few ways to condi burst to make sure you bait out cleanses.

Azukas.1426:

babazhook.6805:

Azukas.1426:

babazhook.6805:

Azukas.1426:

saerni.2584:

Just doubting the accuracy of your claims.

I have no reason to lie, and I have been a very staunch supporter of thieves while being a meaner main.

I’m interested in skillful game balance only.

You on the other hand want to protect your money train.

I do not think Saerni plays s/d.

I DO play s/d in a power build and it just as effective at porting in and out to do damage. That it hard to deal with because of those ports does not translate to being OP. In other words the issue not 6 stacks poison for using all INI. It the porting in and out.

If I swapped this build to Condition and went after those 6 poison stacks using 15 ini , I would be better off going p/d which can apply immobs cheaper while having other sources of condition adds like torment and bleed and vuln.

P/d as a condition build outperforms s/d as a condition build. S/d was not played much due to other sets being superior, and now is and people are having issues with it.
S/d never had a reliable condition source and now does. I see no reason why it should not.

I do not PvP but when on my POWER build s/d get the same sort of rage whispers as to how I am spamming those ports to avoid in combat damage and thats what it REALLY about just as DB d/d thief spams evades while applying bleeds (more then s/d gets of poison by the way for INI spent).

If it about skillful play, a skilled player can deal with s/d condition just as he can deal with d/d Dblossom condition builds.

What it’s really about is 2 then dodge then 2 out will do 30-40% of someone’s life if not cleansed or get some form of healing.

Let’s do the math using my current build for every Inf Strike dodge Inf return ok

Inf strike in 2 poison stacks (2,468 DoT)
Dodge 1 bleed 1 torm (836 + 544-1,089 DoT)
Caltrops 1-3 bleeds (418-836-1254 DoT)

You add that up and you get like 5k damage from condi. You add in the power damage its another 800-1k damage each go.

You can spam that like 4-5x in a row on s/d condi thief.

p.s. saerni I never claimed to be Bad at the game or Good at the game. I simply stated I don’t play thief and got Plat on s/d condi thief. You can search my post hx and you’ll see exactly where I stand.

p.p.s. Turk – Yes its simple and that’s the problem. My concern is the entire game is used to thieves being extremely hard to play, and in the grand scheme of things they are actually quite under powered in fights. Is this build anymore face roll than a menders druid, menders engi, DH, or necro? I would like to see thieves keep their elite Hard Mode status and this build needs to go, but in context with the rest of the game how does it truly stack up?

The methodology is faulty as the greater portion of the damage you indicate has little to do with S/d. IIn fact , if I wanted, I could trait the sme way in D/P and using pressure strike off headshot and the posion off the Daggers AA generate MORE condition damage than the indicated S/D build. People will not do that as d/p just works so much better in power.

Using your exampled damage I can tell you that in a power s/d build I will get more then your example and not have to wait until it runs its duration to do so. A single Larcenous can do as much and more.

The reason people are using s/d Condi over p/d condi , is not that it does more damage, but it harder for an enemy to retaliate which is also why some will take s/d power over d/p power.

Were I to use Conditions in an S/d build, I would in fact trait into some carrion type armor. I would not even take the Potent poison trait taking Executioners instead. This mix of power/condition would do more damage overall then your pure s/d condition build taking Potent poison as the power damage comonent would be that much more significant even as you maintain that ability to port out of trouble.

No every immob gives 2 stacks of poison. Every Mug gives extra poison. Every Panic strike proc gives extra poison. Only traits in DA get the benefit from the extra poison stack so dagger AA chain does not. Also to stack 2 poison 3 bleed and 1 torment with cripple weakness and immob cover condi you do it with little threat to yourself. MH dagger cant do this.

If you want to PM for a demonstration I can break it down for you.

Also there are a few ways to condi burst to make sure you bait out cleanses.

You are still describing a build that has little to do wih S/d. I would poing out MH dagger has poison. Cripple can be obtained via impaling as can the weakness via lotus poison trait. The only add s/d has is immob over d/p .

Panic strike, steal are NOT UNIQUE to s/d.

One more time. I get over 6k damage on a single larcenous. Why on earth would I want to swap that it for that poison on Immob? Try your build using power and you will do more damage.

If you want condition go P/d.

babazhook.6805:

Azukas.1426:

babazhook.6805:

Azukas.1426:

babazhook.6805:

Azukas.1426:

saerni.2584:

Just doubting the accuracy of your claims.

I have no reason to lie, and I have been a very staunch supporter of thieves while being a meaner main.

I’m interested in skillful game balance only.

You on the other hand want to protect your money train.

I do not think Saerni plays s/d.

I DO play s/d in a power build and it just as effective at porting in and out to do damage. That it hard to deal with because of those ports does not translate to being OP. In other words the issue not 6 stacks poison for using all INI. It the porting in and out.

If I swapped this build to Condition and went after those 6 poison stacks using 15 ini , I would be better off going p/d which can apply immobs cheaper while having other sources of condition adds like torment and bleed and vuln.

P/d as a condition build outperforms s/d as a condition build. S/d was not played much due to other sets being superior, and now is and people are having issues with it.
S/d never had a reliable condition source and now does. I see no reason why it should not.

I do not PvP but when on my POWER build s/d get the same sort of rage whispers as to how I am spamming those ports to avoid in combat damage and thats what it REALLY about just as DB d/d thief spams evades while applying bleeds (more then s/d gets of poison by the way for INI spent).

If it about skillful play, a skilled player can deal with s/d condition just as he can deal with d/d Dblossom condition builds.

What it’s really about is 2 then dodge then 2 out will do 30-40% of someone’s life if not cleansed or get some form of healing.

Let’s do the math using my current build for every Inf Strike dodge Inf return ok

Inf strike in 2 poison stacks (2,468 DoT)
Dodge 1 bleed 1 torm (836 + 544-1,089 DoT)
Caltrops 1-3 bleeds (418-836-1254 DoT)

You add that up and you get like 5k damage from condi. You add in the power damage its another 800-1k damage each go.

You can spam that like 4-5x in a row on s/d condi thief.

p.s. saerni I never claimed to be Bad at the game or Good at the game. I simply stated I don’t play thief and got Plat on s/d condi thief. You can search my post hx and you’ll see exactly where I stand.

p.p.s. Turk – Yes its simple and that’s the problem. My concern is the entire game is used to thieves being extremely hard to play, and in the grand scheme of things they are actually quite under powered in fights. Is this build anymore face roll than a menders druid, menders engi, DH, or necro? I would like to see thieves keep their elite Hard Mode status and this build needs to go, but in context with the rest of the game how does it truly stack up?

The methodology is faulty as the greater portion of the damage you indicate has little to do with S/d. IIn fact , if I wanted, I could trait the sme way in D/P and using pressure strike off headshot and the posion off the Daggers AA generate MORE condition damage than the indicated S/D build. People will not do that as d/p just works so much better in power.

Using your exampled damage I can tell you that in a power s/d build I will get more then your example and not have to wait until it runs its duration to do so. A single Larcenous can do as much and more.

The reason people are using s/d Condi over p/d condi , is not that it does more damage, but it harder for an enemy to retaliate which is also why some will take s/d power over d/p power.

Were I to use Conditions in an S/d build, I would in fact trait into some carrion type armor. I would not even take the Potent poison trait taking Executioners instead. This mix of power/condition would do more damage overall then your pure s/d condition build taking Potent poison as the power damage comonent would be that much more significant even as you maintain that ability to port out of trouble.

No every immob gives 2 stacks of poison. Every Mug gives extra poison. Every Panic strike proc gives extra poison. Only traits in DA get the benefit from the extra poison stack so dagger AA chain does not. Also to stack 2 poison 3 bleed and 1 torment with cripple weakness and immob cover condi you do it with little threat to yourself. MH dagger cant do this.

If you want to PM for a demonstration I can break it down for you.

Also there are a few ways to condi burst to make sure you bait out cleanses.

I get over 6k damage on a single larcenous. Why on earth would I want to swap that it for that poison on Immob?

Because i’m hitting 6k damage on inf strike and a dodge and that combo lands a heck of a lot more than larc strike in a given fight.

Azukas.1426:

babazhook.6805:

Azukas.1426:

babazhook.6805:

Azukas.1426:

babazhook.6805:

Azukas.1426:

saerni.2584:

Just doubting the accuracy of your claims.

I have no reason to lie, and I have been a very staunch supporter of thieves while being a meaner main.

I’m interested in skillful game balance only.

You on the other hand want to protect your money train.

I do not think Saerni plays s/d.

I DO play s/d in a power build and it just as effective at porting in and out to do damage. That it hard to deal with because of those ports does not translate to being OP. In other words the issue not 6 stacks poison for using all INI. It the porting in and out.

If I swapped this build to Condition and went after those 6 poison stacks using 15 ini , I would be better off going p/d which can apply immobs cheaper while having other sources of condition adds like torment and bleed and vuln.

P/d as a condition build outperforms s/d as a condition build. S/d was not played much due to other sets being superior, and now is and people are having issues with it.
S/d never had a reliable condition source and now does. I see no reason why it should not.

I do not PvP but when on my POWER build s/d get the same sort of rage whispers as to how I am spamming those ports to avoid in combat damage and thats what it REALLY about just as DB d/d thief spams evades while applying bleeds (more then s/d gets of poison by the way for INI spent).

If it about skillful play, a skilled player can deal with s/d condition just as he can deal with d/d Dblossom condition builds.

What it’s really about is 2 then dodge then 2 out will do 30-40% of someone’s life if not cleansed or get some form of healing.

Let’s do the math using my current build for every Inf Strike dodge Inf return ok

Inf strike in 2 poison stacks (2,468 DoT)
Dodge 1 bleed 1 torm (836 + 544-1,089 DoT)
Caltrops 1-3 bleeds (418-836-1254 DoT)

You add that up and you get like 5k damage from condi. You add in the power damage its another 800-1k damage each go.

You can spam that like 4-5x in a row on s/d condi thief.

p.s. saerni I never claimed to be Bad at the game or Good at the game. I simply stated I don’t play thief and got Plat on s/d condi thief. You can search my post hx and you’ll see exactly where I stand.

p.p.s. Turk – Yes its simple and that’s the problem. My concern is the entire game is used to thieves being extremely hard to play, and in the grand scheme of things they are actually quite under powered in fights. Is this build anymore face roll than a menders druid, menders engi, DH, or necro? I would like to see thieves keep their elite Hard Mode status and this build needs to go, but in context with the rest of the game how does it truly stack up?

The methodology is faulty as the greater portion of the damage you indicate has little to do with S/d. IIn fact , if I wanted, I could trait the sme way in D/P and using pressure strike off headshot and the posion off the Daggers AA generate MORE condition damage than the indicated S/D build. People will not do that as d/p just works so much better in power.

Using your exampled damage I can tell you that in a power s/d build I will get more then your example and not have to wait until it runs its duration to do so. A single Larcenous can do as much and more.

The reason people are using s/d Condi over p/d condi , is not that it does more damage, but it harder for an enemy to retaliate which is also why some will take s/d power over d/p power.

Were I to use Conditions in an S/d build, I would in fact trait into some carrion type armor. I would not even take the Potent poison trait taking Executioners instead. This mix of power/condition would do more damage overall then your pure s/d condition build taking Potent poison as the power damage comonent would be that much more significant even as you maintain that ability to port out of trouble.

No every immob gives 2 stacks of poison. Every Mug gives extra poison. Every Panic strike proc gives extra poison. Only traits in DA get the benefit from the extra poison stack so dagger AA chain does not. Also to stack 2 poison 3 bleed and 1 torment with cripple weakness and immob cover condi you do it with little threat to yourself. MH dagger cant do this.

If you want to PM for a demonstration I can break it down for you.

Also there are a few ways to condi burst to make sure you bait out cleanses.

I get over 6k damage on a single larcenous. Why on earth would I want to swap that it for that poison on Immob?

Because i’m hitting 6k damage on inf strike and a dodge and that combo lands a heck of a lot more than larc strike in a given fight.

No you are not. You are only hitting that if you let the durations go to their max. You are also counting multiple attacks. I am counting one.

Do you know how much I can get on a MUG in a power build in WvW? I have gotten 10k against squishies. Thats a heck of a lot more then your poisin will get and it does not take 10 seconds run time to reach. n?

Mug for damage. PI with interrupt and sigil of draining. If you are going to count comboes do not exclude what a power build can do. WiTH BT traited and using an evasive attack larcenous can hit for 20+20 +10 (not additive I know) before you even get crits.

Why would I want to give up more damage (which you can get in power build s/d) to get less damage?

babazhook.6805:

Azukas.1426:

babazhook.6805:

Azukas.1426:

babazhook.6805:

Azukas.1426:

babazhook.6805:

Azukas.1426:

saerni.2584:

Just doubting the accuracy of your claims.

I have no reason to lie, and I have been a very staunch supporter of thieves while being a meaner main.

I’m interested in skillful game balance only.

You on the other hand want to protect your money train.

I do not think Saerni plays s/d.

I DO play s/d in a power build and it just as effective at porting in and out to do damage. That it hard to deal with because of those ports does not translate to being OP. In other words the issue not 6 stacks poison for using all INI. It the porting in and out.

If I swapped this build to Condition and went after those 6 poison stacks using 15 ini , I would be better off going p/d which can apply immobs cheaper while having other sources of condition adds like torment and bleed and vuln.

P/d as a condition build outperforms s/d as a condition build. S/d was not played much due to other sets being superior, and now is and people are having issues with it.
S/d never had a reliable condition source and now does. I see no reason why it should not.

I do not PvP but when on my POWER build s/d get the same sort of rage whispers as to how I am spamming those ports to avoid in combat damage and thats what it REALLY about just as DB d/d thief spams evades while applying bleeds (more then s/d gets of poison by the way for INI spent).

If it about skillful play, a skilled player can deal with s/d condition just as he can deal with d/d Dblossom condition builds.

What it’s really about is 2 then dodge then 2 out will do 30-40% of someone’s life if not cleansed or get some form of healing.

Let’s do the math using my current build for every Inf Strike dodge Inf return ok

Inf strike in 2 poison stacks (2,468 DoT)
Dodge 1 bleed 1 torm (836 + 544-1,089 DoT)
Caltrops 1-3 bleeds (418-836-1254 DoT)

You add that up and you get like 5k damage from condi. You add in the power damage its another 800-1k damage each go.

You can spam that like 4-5x in a row on s/d condi thief.

p.s. saerni I never claimed to be Bad at the game or Good at the game. I simply stated I don’t play thief and got Plat on s/d condi thief. You can search my post hx and you’ll see exactly where I stand.

p.p.s. Turk – Yes its simple and that’s the problem. My concern is the entire game is used to thieves being extremely hard to play, and in the grand scheme of things they are actually quite under powered in fights. Is this build anymore face roll than a menders druid, menders engi, DH, or necro? I would like to see thieves keep their elite Hard Mode status and this build needs to go, but in context with the rest of the game how does it truly stack up?

The methodology is faulty as the greater portion of the damage you indicate has little to do with S/d. IIn fact , if I wanted, I could trait the sme way in D/P and using pressure strike off headshot and the posion off the Daggers AA generate MORE condition damage than the indicated S/D build. People will not do that as d/p just works so much better in power.

Using your exampled damage I can tell you that in a power s/d build I will get more then your example and not have to wait until it runs its duration to do so. A single Larcenous can do as much and more.

The reason people are using s/d Condi over p/d condi , is not that it does more damage, but it harder for an enemy to retaliate which is also why some will take s/d power over d/p power.

Were I to use Conditions in an S/d build, I would in fact trait into some carrion type armor. I would not even take the Potent poison trait taking Executioners instead. This mix of power/condition would do more damage overall then your pure s/d condition build taking Potent poison as the power damage comonent would be that much more significant even as you maintain that ability to port out of trouble.

No every immob gives 2 stacks of poison. Every Mug gives extra poison. Every Panic strike proc gives extra poison. Only traits in DA get the benefit from the extra poison stack so dagger AA chain does not. Also to stack 2 poison 3 bleed and 1 torment with cripple weakness and immob cover condi you do it with little threat to yourself. MH dagger cant do this.

If you want to PM for a demonstration I can break it down for you.

Also there are a few ways to condi burst to make sure you bait out cleanses.

I get over 6k damage on a single larcenous. Why on earth would I want to swap that it for that poison on Immob?

Because i’m hitting 6k damage on inf strike and a dodge and that combo lands a heck of a lot more than larc strike in a given fight.

in WvW

I’m talking about PvP.

PvP condition damage is in worse shape on a s/d thief because there no condition foods and durations are limted. It hard to get durations above 60 percent meaning that Immob poison add goes all of 6 seconds. There no condition stacking sigils meaning with the best runes you likely around 1400 condtion damage tops.

On a stack of poisin you are probably topping out around 120 per tick. 6 stacks of poison the MAX off your immob spam for the cost of 15 ini is likely ticking less then 1k per.

For that same 15 INI you can do more damage with power.

Do not add in what you get off your impaling dodge or other sources. If you do that you MUST do the same for power. What damage do you get per INI spent off S/d condition?

The only damaging condition you have is 6 stacks poison for 15 INI and that just does not compare with what yor can do with 15 ini in power.

D/D deathblossom for the same INI can apply 12 stacks bleed. This is much more damage per ini spent and the base bleeds are 10 seconds without duration adds. It also has poison on the AA and can get more via “dagger training” .

P/d can pile on bleeds just using the AA at range and if wished can get 8 stacks poison for the same amount INI using the Immob. Again much more efficient.

All of that other stuff, from dodges and implaing to the poison on steal, to venoms, Impairing daggers, panic strike , whatever, is equally available to those other builds so there simply no way S/d can compete with them from a Condition standpoint.

Added to that P/d and D/d have projectile and whirl finishers. S/d is very limited in this regard.

Ultimately, As I sated before, the only real reason to take s/d over those other condition builds is to take advantage of the ports so as to frustrate an opponent. It my opinion you are equally able to do that with a power build while putting out MORE damage.

Now if you go hybrid it a different story. Hybrid will outperform s/d builds focused on conditions. A balancing act then needed to ensure you not sacrificing too much power or too much condition to get the optimal build.

ALL of this is ultimately good for the game and there no reason “s/d condi has to go”.

It’s actually quite easy to get high duration of conditions in pvp. You have a few options with poison on condi thief: You can run deadshot and thorn runes and you will have 100% duration on poison which is the only huge spike you have to worry about (the rest are cover condis that are so easily reapplied you won’t have to worry about those falling off) or you can go (As many do) carrion, thorn runes, venom sigs and sit at 98% poison duration. Conditions do not suffer in pvp as you claim they do. Power suffers more in pvp due to the fact that while damage is lower in pvp than in wvw, defense uptime is not. All the prot that people take and all the blocks they have in wvw come straight over to pvp and make power damage much harder to be effective with. Condion the other hand doesn’t get affected by the high defensive uptime as it ignores armor, prot, etc. With carrion and thorn runes you sit easily at almost 1400 condi damage which is a very hefty amount considering the sheer number of condis you can output as well. Also thorn runes raise your damage over time so you end up with a damage level of about 1500-1600 which is absolutely brutal.

Keep in mind s/d condi is not played purely by spamming 2 (anyone who argues “spamming 2 won’t get you much condi and therefore the build is balanced” doesn’t understand how this spec works, you all know very well that there is more being done than afk spamming 2 when it comes to condi application so stop pretending that’s an argument to protect a carry build. Remember WE ARE NOT ADVOCATING A NERF TO THE WEAPON SET) so you have to take into account the use of sb 4 and the whirl finishers from dodging, the extra pressure from steal, the 33% increased poison damage from the trait, etc. There’s a ton of damage that comes from this set and it’s payoff for being so easy is just not okay. Could you do more damage with power? Sure but let’s look at the requirements for doing that say, on power s/d: Every skill has to hit AND crit, can’t afford having it blocked, can’t afford hitting prot, and it requires you to stay in the fray longer exposing yourself to possible damage in order to get off your larger damaging skills rather than a quick burst and dodge style given to you by the condi variant. Also keep in mind the telegraphs for the skills that hit with higher power damage are much bigger and more pronounced than those that burst with heavier condi when specced for it.

S/d is taken for condi due to it’s in combat mobility, the harder to notice animations used for the condi burst, the ability to actively contest a point while fighting due to no reliance on stealth, and the utility on the set providing the thief with a strong defense while they wait for their next burst opportunity. S/d itself doesn’t need to be nerfed and I never asked for s/d to be nerfed. I asked for the condi application of the thief showcased by the build using s/d to be nerfed (yes you get more condi on other sets but they are much more exposed hence why nobody uses them over s/d in pvp)

A build that is this easy to play with that much reward is not healthy for a game and that is a very good reason that s/d condi has to go.

And now I need to say this: We are not talking about wvw here, wvw is a fustercluck of nonsense where balance doesn’t exist so therefore all that bs is not a part of this argument. No more of the “Oh well in wvw you can just run super far away and pew pew from range” or “In wvw, everything is more powerful so because it’s less powerful than the wvw variant it’s balanced in pvp” this is a pvp balance centered discussion (no it doesn’t belong on the pvp forums because it’s thief focused) where the objective is standing on a point and holding it, running far away and pew pewing is not a viable option.

If you aren’t calling for a nerf to the weapons then you are calling for a nerf to all condi builds generally.

A few points you’ve raised. You don’t like Lotus Training because of the cover conditions in a large radius. You don’t like poison on immobilize. You don’t like the combo with Potent Poison applying two stacks instead of one.

In short, not looking at the weapon skills, you think the recent changes to DA that favor poison application are OP. And you focus on S/D because it has immobilize and a rotation that is hard to hit for many players.

And S/D has a hard time contesting because it is teleporting around so much. The damage is strong but not unbearable.

The biggest frustration is that other players don’t know how to fight it properly. If this build sticks around I’ll have to teach them how to fight it I guess.

Ario.8964:

Could you do more damage with power? Sure but let’s look at the requirements for doing that say, on power s/d: Every skill has to hit AND crit, can’t afford having it blocked,

Fun fact Condi skills have to hit as well, and can’t be blocked as well, otherwise no damage is applied. And let’s not forget the Condi damage can be mitigated completely with Resistance and through proper cleansing. And let’s not forget the cover Condis are completely shut down by any form of projectile hate which makes the main damaging condition very easily manageable, and the build relies on blowing semi long cd a Dodge multiple Ini Attacks and a stem to do the Burst damage. That alone is a lot of resources used for a Burst but hey some people in this thread try to claim one Steal and a Dodge is all it takes to kill everyone. But I understand that in this game some players die to 1 spammers. Can’t balance around everyone.

People who claim “S/D Condi is op” are just salty because of they got destroyed by a condition damage set. S/D has almost nothing to do with what you say. You say Steal, WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY EXISTS ON EVERY THIEF, you say Lotus dodge, WHICH OBVIOUSLY EXISTS ON EVERY DAREDEVIL, you say “quickly stacking poison”, WHICH DAGGER/DAGGER CAN STACK QUICKER.
There are WAY MORE powerful sets than S/D condi and you are blaming the poor sword? Shame.

Sly.9518:

Ario.8964:

Could you do more damage with power? Sure but let’s look at the requirements for doing that say, on power s/d: Every skill has to hit AND crit, can’t afford having it blocked,

Fun fact Condi skills have to hit as well, and can’t be blocked as well, otherwise no damage is applied. And let’s not forget the Condi damage can be mitigated completely with Resistance and through proper cleansing. And let’s not forget the cover Condis are completely shut down by any form of projectile hate which makes the main damaging condition very easily manageable, and the build relies on blowing semi long cd a Dodge multiple Ini Attacks and a stem to do the Burst damage. That alone is a lot of resources used for a Burst but hey some people in this thread try to claim one Steal and a Dodge is all it takes to kill everyone. But I understand that in this game some players die to 1 spammers. Can’t balance around everyone.

Actually you just have to properly use your skills to outplay everything you just named. Basi venom will stop a block cold and allow you to lay down a ton of condi that need to be cleansed. If used on Inf strike to break the block and then u dodge. By the time human reaction time catches up and they stun break they’ve already eaten your damage; whereas, Basi > Inf strike > Flanking > Larc any decent player would have stun broke and evaded ur main damage.

As for projectile hate yes that’s a thing but it doesn’t stop the Inf Strike & caltrops which is where most of the damage comes from. Also Steal goes through the projectile hate and that is 5 confusion & 3 more stacks of poison. This is how I was able to dismantle Chaith of all people.

I think the people who are arguing against this need to PM me so we can set up a live demonstration. Until then we’ll have to move forward with the understanding that most people do not have any experience with the build in discussion. I will also explain exactly how it works & why the synergy works so well so people can fully understand why this build is over tuned.

You keep saying “this build” but cite to things any thief can do.

If you want to nerf sword specifically then you should say what you want changed. If you want no more immobilize on IS for example.

If you think the extra poison on immobilize is OP that is a general balance issue not specific to Sword. If you think poison on immobilize is OP that is also not just applicable to Sword.

Maybe you think the initiative cost on IS should be higher? It’s hard to tell what solution you have other than a general desire to “nerf this build.”

Azukas.1426:

Sly.9518:

Ario.8964:

Could you do more damage with power? Sure but let’s look at the requirements for doing that say, on power s/d: Every skill has to hit AND crit, can’t afford having it blocked,

Fun fact Condi skills have to hit as well, and can’t be blocked as well, otherwise no damage is applied. And let’s not forget the Condi damage can be mitigated completely with Resistance and through proper cleansing. And let’s not forget the cover Condis are completely shut down by any form of projectile hate which makes the main damaging condition very easily manageable, and the build relies on blowing semi long cd a Dodge multiple Ini Attacks and a stem to do the Burst damage. That alone is a lot of resources used for a Burst but hey some people in this thread try to claim one Steal and a Dodge is all it takes to kill everyone. But I understand that in this game some players die to 1 spammers. Can’t balance around everyone.

Actually you just have to properly use your skills to outplay everything you just named. Basi venom will stop a block cold and allow you to lay down a ton of condi that need to be cleansed. If used on Inf strike to break the block and then u dodge. By the time human reaction time catches up and they stun break they’ve already eaten your damage; whereas, Basi > Inf strike > Flanking > Larc any decent player would have stun broke and evaded ur main damage.

As for projectile hate yes that’s a thing but it doesn’t stop the Inf Strike & caltrops which is where most of the damage comes from. Also Steal goes through the projectile hate and that is 5 confusion & 3 more stacks of poison. This is how I was able to dismantle Chaith of all people.

I think the people who are arguing against this need to PM me so we can set up a live demonstration. Until then we’ll have to move forward with the understanding that most people do not have any experience with the build in discussion. I will also explain exactly how it works & why the synergy works so well so people can fully understand why this build is over tuned.

I think most players with a brain would easily dodge half of the combo you mentioned. I used S/D in WvW, and almost everyone used a stunbreak and dodged away from the combo. I know you won’t even pay attention to what the others say, most people know here it is a decent build. But it is barely overpowered. Anyone here can do what you say without S/D. Is it unplayable against? No. Is it counterable? Yes. You complain about it’s condition damage? D/D can do better. You complain about it’s power-based damage? D/P can do better. Do you complain about it’s single target damage? P/P can do almost anything it can. Do you complain about it’s overall damage? Staff can do almost anything it can. Why are you still complaining?
1- You got one-shot by this build. Because one-shotting or quickly killing people is OBVIOUSLY not a Thief’s job, right?
2- You faced really really bad opponents so you became platinum.
3- You became platinum with your newly created account because it is really easy to be platinum with new accounts.
People with some knowledge of the game can be a challenger against this build. Nothing overpowered about it. Just a decent build which requires less intelligence and reflexes to be effective. Enough said.

Don’t blame the poor sword

Azukas.1426:

Sly.9518:

Ario.8964:

Could you do more damage with power? Sure but let’s look at the requirements for doing that say, on power s/d: Every skill has to hit AND crit, can’t afford having it blocked,

Fun fact Condi skills have to hit as well, and can’t be blocked as well, otherwise no damage is applied. And let’s not forget the Condi damage can be mitigated completely with Resistance and through proper cleansing. And let’s not forget the cover Condis are completely shut down by any form of projectile hate which makes the main damaging condition very easily manageable, and the build relies on blowing semi long cd a Dodge multiple Ini Attacks and a stem to do the Burst damage. That alone is a lot of resources used for a Burst but hey some people in this thread try to claim one Steal and a Dodge is all it takes to kill everyone. But I understand that in this game some players die to 1 spammers. Can’t balance around everyone.

Actually you just have to properly use your skills to outplay everything you just named. Basi venom will stop a block cold and allow you to lay down a ton of condi that need to be cleansed. If used on Inf strike to break the block and then u dodge. By the time human reaction time catches up and they stun break they’ve already eaten your damage; whereas, Basi > Inf strike > Flanking > Larc any decent player would have stun broke and evaded ur main damage.

As for projectile hate yes that’s a thing but it doesn’t stop the Inf Strike & caltrops which is where most of the damage comes from. Also Steal goes through the projectile hate and that is 5 confusion & 3 more stacks of poison. This is how I was able to dismantle Chaith of all people.

I think the people who are arguing against this need to PM me so we can set up a live demonstration. Until then we’ll have to move forward with the understanding that most people do not have any experience with the build in discussion. I will also explain exactly how it works & why the synergy works so well so people can fully understand why this build is over tuned.

Oh so Power can’t use Basi Venom at all? Since I was disputing the claim that apparently Condis don’t have to hit to apply damage as the post I quoted.

And I already proved to a top 70 player last season that claimed it was OP by thrashing him over 20 times and died once to it.

And again there is tons of counter play to it though Cleanses, Resistance, projectile defense, blocks, Evades etc.

S/d THE WEAPON has a limited number of stacks of poison it can apply. It is 6 stacks for the expenditure of all INI.

That is all that has to be looked at if deeming the set OP in a condition build. Everything else comes from other traits having nothing to do with S/d. 6 stacks of poison for 15 ini is not in any way shape or form OP.

The “Crit equivalent” in a condition build is one of two major things.

1>adding more stacks of a single given condition. S/D is limited to 6 poison.

2>adding more damaging condition types. S/d can not do this well at all compared to other sets. Posion is its only inherent damaging condition. It has torment on #4 but this competes directly for INI used for the poison on number 2.

One can also argue durations can be increased but this true only to an extent given the longer the duration, the greater percentage of total overall damage can be mitigated by a cleanse.

All of the other condition adds are from traits and utiliies traited for that are NOT specific to s/d.

Any condition build that decides to trait those utilities or traits should be rewarded with more condition damage , just as power builds get more damage by traiting things like Executioner , No quarter and the like.

Azukas again simply uses the example of Caltrops and other Thief traits and utilities in giving his example. I can drop a caltrops on a person and immob him in the field with p/d as well. Basi venom is also used as an example of how a s/d user can use it to add more condtions. Well BV is used by power users to spike their damage. This is a non issue.

As Saerni points out when you get down to the basics, this is just another “I do not like condition builds” thread.

The issue with most people that face these builds, is they do not feel they have to dodge something that just adds one stack tormen, one bleed and a cripple, or block something that just adds 2 poison.

Those cover conditions build up , the damaging conditions keep growing, and suddenly their cleanses are not enough.

Even though the damage from those various attacks is minimal, it just as important a person use avoidance measures to ensure they do not get applied as it is with that big power spike damage that might be incoming.

S/d condition , versus virtually any thief build will fare poorly given it relies so heavily on Immob and a limited sets of cover condtions all to stack one real damaging condtion which thieves can directly cleanse with ease. Using just a withdraw as a heal will take off most every condition s/d applies. If traited trickster withdraw on its own will take off torment, crippled , chilled , Immob and very likely the poison as well.

almost any thief build design for 1v1. in pvp thief is strong now in 1v1 most classes. the idea is your team needs to +1 you with your thief.

i dont have problem with any thief build although they recked me eventually even as ele or support rev (it takes time though). pvp design on rotation and not only on dueling.

yes s/d is strong with condi let it be. i dont see much. when we see them more we might consider a nerf to condi dodge or poison stacking

Sly.9518:

Azukas.1426:

Sly.9518:

Ario.8964:

Could you do more damage with power? Sure but let’s look at the requirements for doing that say, on power s/d: Every skill has to hit AND crit, can’t afford having it blocked,

Fun fact Condi skills have to hit as well, and can’t be blocked as well, otherwise no damage is applied. And let’s not forget the Condi damage can be mitigated completely with Resistance and through proper cleansing. And let’s not forget the cover Condis are completely shut down by any form of projectile hate which makes the main damaging condition very easily manageable, and the build relies on blowing semi long cd a Dodge multiple Ini Attacks and a stem to do the Burst damage. That alone is a lot of resources used for a Burst but hey some people in this thread try to claim one Steal and a Dodge is all it takes to kill everyone. But I understand that in this game some players die to 1 spammers. Can’t balance around everyone.

Actually you just have to properly use your skills to outplay everything you just named. Basi venom will stop a block cold and allow you to lay down a ton of condi that need to be cleansed. If used on Inf strike to break the block and then u dodge. By the time human reaction time catches up and they stun break they’ve already eaten your damage; whereas, Basi > Inf strike > Flanking > Larc any decent player would have stun broke and evaded ur main damage.

As for projectile hate yes that’s a thing but it doesn’t stop the Inf Strike & caltrops which is where most of the damage comes from. Also Steal goes through the projectile hate and that is 5 confusion & 3 more stacks of poison. This is how I was able to dismantle Chaith of all people.

I think the people who are arguing against this need to PM me so we can set up a live demonstration. Until then we’ll have to move forward with the understanding that most people do not have any experience with the build in discussion. I will also explain exactly how it works & why the synergy works so well so people can fully understand why this build is over tuned.

Oh so Power can’t use Basi Venom at all? Since I was disputing the claim that apparently Condis don’t have to hit to apply damage as the post I quoted.

And I already proved to a top 70 player last season that claimed it was OP by thrashing him over 20 times and died once to it.

And again there is tons of counter play to it though Cleanses, Resistance, projectile defense, blocks, Evades etc.

Which meta build/class did you use?

Azukas.1426:

Sly.9518:

Azukas.1426:

Sly.9518:

Ario.8964:

Could you do more damage with power? Sure but let’s look at the requirements for doing that say, on power s/d: Every skill has to hit AND crit, can’t afford having it blocked,

Fun fact Condi skills have to hit as well, and can’t be blocked as well, otherwise no damage is applied. And let’s not forget the Condi damage can be mitigated completely with Resistance and through proper cleansing. And let’s not forget the cover Condis are completely shut down by any form of projectile hate which makes the main damaging condition very easily manageable, and the build relies on blowing semi long cd a Dodge multiple Ini Attacks and a stem to do the Burst damage. That alone is a lot of resources used for a Burst but hey some people in this thread try to claim one Steal and a Dodge is all it takes to kill everyone. But I understand that in this game some players die to 1 spammers. Can’t balance around everyone.

Actually you just have to properly use your skills to outplay everything you just named. Basi venom will stop a block cold and allow you to lay down a ton of condi that need to be cleansed. If used on Inf strike to break the block and then u dodge. By the time human reaction time catches up and they stun break they’ve already eaten your damage; whereas, Basi > Inf strike > Flanking > Larc any decent player would have stun broke and evaded ur main damage.

As for projectile hate yes that’s a thing but it doesn’t stop the Inf Strike & caltrops which is where most of the damage comes from. Also Steal goes through the projectile hate and that is 5 confusion & 3 more stacks of poison. This is how I was able to dismantle Chaith of all people.

I think the people who are arguing against this need to PM me so we can set up a live demonstration. Until then we’ll have to move forward with the understanding that most people do not have any experience with the build in discussion. I will also explain exactly how it works & why the synergy works so well so people can fully understand why this build is over tuned.

Oh so Power can’t use Basi Venom at all? Since I was disputing the claim that apparently Condis don’t have to hit to apply damage as the post I quoted.

And I already proved to a top 70 player last season that claimed it was OP by thrashing him over 20 times and died once to it.

And again there is tons of counter play to it though Cleanses, Resistance, projectile defense, blocks, Evades etc.

Which meta build/class did you use?

Used D/P daredevil with PI using Marauder Amulet the same build Berserker Amulet, then I used Core Thief using Berserker Amulet, then S/D Power using Marauder Amulet. then I used Menders Ele. I was gonna hop on to DH but that person was done losing over and over on the “OP” build.

Sly.9518:

Azukas.1426:

Sly.9518:

Azukas.1426:

Sly.9518:

Ario.8964:

Could you do more damage with power? Sure but let’s look at the requirements for doing that say, on power s/d: Every skill has to hit AND crit, can’t afford having it blocked,

Fun fact Condi skills have to hit as well, and can’t be blocked as well, otherwise no damage is applied. And let’s not forget the Condi damage can be mitigated completely with Resistance and through proper cleansing. And let’s not forget the cover Condis are completely shut down by any form of projectile hate which makes the main damaging condition very easily manageable, and the build relies on blowing semi long cd a Dodge multiple Ini Attacks and a stem to do the Burst damage. That alone is a lot of resources used for a Burst but hey some people in this thread try to claim one Steal and a Dodge is all it takes to kill everyone. But I understand that in this game some players die to 1 spammers. Can’t balance around everyone.

Actually you just have to properly use your skills to outplay everything you just named. Basi venom will stop a block cold and allow you to lay down a ton of condi that need to be cleansed. If used on Inf strike to break the block and then u dodge. By the time human reaction time catches up and they stun break they’ve already eaten your damage; whereas, Basi > Inf strike > Flanking > Larc any decent player would have stun broke and evaded ur main damage.

As for projectile hate yes that’s a thing but it doesn’t stop the Inf Strike & caltrops which is where most of the damage comes from. Also Steal goes through the projectile hate and that is 5 confusion & 3 more stacks of poison. This is how I was able to dismantle Chaith of all people.

I think the people who are arguing against this need to PM me so we can set up a live demonstration. Until then we’ll have to move forward with the understanding that most people do not have any experience with the build in discussion. I will also explain exactly how it works & why the synergy works so well so people can fully understand why this build is over tuned.

Oh so Power can’t use Basi Venom at all? Since I was disputing the claim that apparently Condis don’t have to hit to apply damage as the post I quoted.

And I already proved to a top 70 player last season that claimed it was OP by thrashing him over 20 times and died once to it.

And again there is tons of counter play to it though Cleanses, Resistance, projectile defense, blocks, Evades etc.

Which meta build/class did you use?

Used D/P daredevil with PI using Marauder Amulet the same build Berserker Amulet, then I used Core Thief using Berserker Amulet, then S/D Power using Marauder Amulet. then I used Menders Ele. I was gonna hop on to DH but that person was done losing over and over on the “OP” build.

Then he wasn’t very good at Thief.

Azukas.1426:

Sly.9518:

Azukas.1426:

Sly.9518:

Azukas.1426:

Sly.9518:

Ario.8964:

Could you do more damage with power? Sure but let’s look at the requirements for doing that say, on power s/d: Every skill has to hit AND crit, can’t afford having it blocked,

Fun fact Condi skills have to hit as well, and can’t be blocked as well, otherwise no damage is applied. And let’s not forget the Condi damage can be mitigated completely with Resistance and through proper cleansing. And let’s not forget the cover Condis are completely shut down by any form of projectile hate which makes the main damaging condition very easily manageable, and the build relies on blowing semi long cd a Dodge multiple Ini Attacks and a stem to do the Burst damage. That alone is a lot of resources used for a Burst but hey some people in this thread try to claim one Steal and a Dodge is all it takes to kill everyone. But I understand that in this game some players die to 1 spammers. Can’t balance around everyone.

Actually you just have to properly use your skills to outplay everything you just named. Basi venom will stop a block cold and allow you to lay down a ton of condi that need to be cleansed. If used on Inf strike to break the block and then u dodge. By the time human reaction time catches up and they stun break they’ve already eaten your damage; whereas, Basi > Inf strike > Flanking > Larc any decent player would have stun broke and evaded ur main damage.

As for projectile hate yes that’s a thing but it doesn’t stop the Inf Strike & caltrops which is where most of the damage comes from. Also Steal goes through the projectile hate and that is 5 confusion & 3 more stacks of poison. This is how I was able to dismantle Chaith of all people.

I think the people who are arguing against this need to PM me so we can set up a live demonstration. Until then we’ll have to move forward with the understanding that most people do not have any experience with the build in discussion. I will also explain exactly how it works & why the synergy works so well so people can fully understand why this build is over tuned.

Oh so Power can’t use Basi Venom at all? Since I was disputing the claim that apparently Condis don’t have to hit to apply damage as the post I quoted.

And I already proved to a top 70 player last season that claimed it was OP by thrashing him over 20 times and died once to it.

And again there is tons of counter play to it though Cleanses, Resistance, projectile defense, blocks, Evades etc.

Which meta build/class did you use?

Used D/P daredevil with PI using Marauder Amulet the same build Berserker Amulet, then I used Core Thief using Berserker Amulet, then S/D Power using Marauder Amulet. then I used Menders Ele. I was gonna hop on to DH but that person was done losing over and over on the “OP” build.

Then he wasn’t very good at Thief.

Nope, you just can’t accept you are wrong.

Azukas.1426:

Sly.9518:

Azukas.1426:

Sly.9518:

Azukas.1426:

Sly.9518:

Ario.8964:

Could you do more damage with power? Sure but let’s look at the requirements for doing that say, on power s/d: Every skill has to hit AND crit, can’t afford having it blocked,

Fun fact Condi skills have to hit as well, and can’t be blocked as well, otherwise no damage is applied. And let’s not forget the Condi damage can be mitigated completely with Resistance and through proper cleansing. And let’s not forget the cover Condis are completely shut down by any form of projectile hate which makes the main damaging condition very easily manageable, and the build relies on blowing semi long cd a Dodge multiple Ini Attacks and a stem to do the Burst damage. That alone is a lot of resources used for a Burst but hey some people in this thread try to claim one Steal and a Dodge is all it takes to kill everyone. But I understand that in this game some players die to 1 spammers. Can’t balance around everyone.

Actually you just have to properly use your skills to outplay everything you just named. Basi venom will stop a block cold and allow you to lay down a ton of condi that need to be cleansed. If used on Inf strike to break the block and then u dodge. By the time human reaction time catches up and they stun break they’ve already eaten your damage; whereas, Basi > Inf strike > Flanking > Larc any decent player would have stun broke and evaded ur main damage.

As for projectile hate yes that’s a thing but it doesn’t stop the Inf Strike & caltrops which is where most of the damage comes from. Also Steal goes through the projectile hate and that is 5 confusion & 3 more stacks of poison. This is how I was able to dismantle Chaith of all people.

I think the people who are arguing against this need to PM me so we can set up a live demonstration. Until then we’ll have to move forward with the understanding that most people do not have any experience with the build in discussion. I will also explain exactly how it works & why the synergy works so well so people can fully understand why this build is over tuned.

Oh so Power can’t use Basi Venom at all? Since I was disputing the claim that apparently Condis don’t have to hit to apply damage as the post I quoted.

And I already proved to a top 70 player last season that claimed it was OP by thrashing him over 20 times and died once to it.

And again there is tons of counter play to it though Cleanses, Resistance, projectile defense, blocks, Evades etc.

Which meta build/class did you use?

Used D/P daredevil with PI using Marauder Amulet the same build Berserker Amulet, then I used Core Thief using Berserker Amulet, then S/D Power using Marauder Amulet. then I used Menders Ele. I was gonna hop on to DH but that person was done losing over and over on the “OP” build.

Then he wasn’t very good at Thief.

Lol any excuse.

He was in the top 70 saying how he was beating top20+ players easily while I wasn’t even top 250. And if the build is so OP like people claim it is he should have been able to beat me, also I let him get his Condi Burst rotation of IS/Steal/Dodge/with spider Venom on me and i let it tick before cleansing it only ticked for 1k so OP much damage with all those conditions on me lol.

Every Meta and viable off Meta build has counters pre baked into them to counter the build easily, it gets shut down by any semi competent player.

Sly.9518:

Azukas.1426:

Sly.9518:

Azukas.1426:

Sly.9518:

Azukas.1426:

Sly.9518:

Ario.8964:

Could you do more damage with power? Sure but let’s look at the requirements for doing that say, on power s/d: Every skill has to hit AND crit, can’t afford having it blocked,

Fun fact Condi skills have to hit as well, and can’t be blocked as well, otherwise no damage is applied. And let’s not forget the Condi damage can be mitigated completely with Resistance and through proper cleansing. And let’s not forget the cover Condis are completely shut down by any form of projectile hate which makes the main damaging condition very easily manageable, and the build relies on blowing semi long cd a Dodge multiple Ini Attacks and a stem to do the Burst damage. That alone is a lot of resources used for a Burst but hey some people in this thread try to claim one Steal and a Dodge is all it takes to kill everyone. But I understand that in this game some players die to 1 spammers. Can’t balance around everyone.

Actually you just have to properly use your skills to outplay everything you just named. Basi venom will stop a block cold and allow you to lay down a ton of condi that need to be cleansed. If used on Inf strike to break the block and then u dodge. By the time human reaction time catches up and they stun break they’ve already eaten your damage; whereas, Basi > Inf strike > Flanking > Larc any decent player would have stun broke and evaded ur main damage.

As for projectile hate yes that’s a thing but it doesn’t stop the Inf Strike & caltrops which is where most of the damage comes from. Also Steal goes through the projectile hate and that is 5 confusion & 3 more stacks of poison. This is how I was able to dismantle Chaith of all people.

I think the people who are arguing against this need to PM me so we can set up a live demonstration. Until then we’ll have to move forward with the understanding that most people do not have any experience with the build in discussion. I will also explain exactly how it works & why the synergy works so well so people can fully understand why this build is over tuned.

Oh so Power can’t use Basi Venom at all? Since I was disputing the claim that apparently Condis don’t have to hit to apply damage as the post I quoted.

And I already proved to a top 70 player last season that claimed it was OP by thrashing him over 20 times and died once to it.

And again there is tons of counter play to it though Cleanses, Resistance, projectile defense, blocks, Evades etc.

Which meta build/class did you use?

Used D/P daredevil with PI using Marauder Amulet the same build Berserker Amulet, then I used Core Thief using Berserker Amulet, then S/D Power using Marauder Amulet. then I used Menders Ele. I was gonna hop on to DH but that person was done losing over and over on the “OP” build.

Then he wasn’t very good at Thief.

Lol any excuse.

He was in the top 70 saying how he was beating top20+ players easily while I wasn’t even top 250. And if the build is so OP like people claim it is he should have been able to beat me, also I let him get his Condi Burst rotation of IS/Steal/Dodge/with spider Venom on me and i let it tick before cleansing it only ticked for 1k so OP much damage with all those conditions on me lol.

Every Meta and viable off Meta build has counters pre baked into them to counter the build easily, it gets shut down by any semi competent player.

I provide pictures as proof & you are just saying some random top 70 player you beat. Please by all means link the thread where he admits you whipped him or videos. Something b/c when you say his condi burst you let tick and it only did 1k damage when the poison ticks alone from Inf strike will hit you for 2k I kinda file this in the “Ok sure thing” pile.

My experience is very different from your tale.

Azukas.1426:

Sly.9518:

Azukas.1426:

Sly.9518:

Azukas.1426:

Sly.9518:

Azukas.1426:

Sly.9518:

Ario.8964:

Could you do more damage with power? Sure but let’s look at the requirements for doing that say, on power s/d: Every skill has to hit AND crit, can’t afford having it blocked,

Fun fact Condi skills have to hit as well, and can’t be blocked as well, otherwise no damage is applied. And let’s not forget the Condi damage can be mitigated completely with Resistance and through proper cleansing. And let’s not forget the cover Condis are completely shut down by any form of projectile hate which makes the main damaging condition very easily manageable, and the build relies on blowing semi long cd a Dodge multiple Ini Attacks and a stem to do the Burst damage. That alone is a lot of resources used for a Burst but hey some people in this thread try to claim one Steal and a Dodge is all it takes to kill everyone. But I understand that in this game some players die to 1 spammers. Can’t balance around everyone.

Actually you just have to properly use your skills to outplay everything you just named. Basi venom will stop a block cold and allow you to lay down a ton of condi that need to be cleansed. If used on Inf strike to break the block and then u dodge. By the time human reaction time catches up and they stun break they’ve already eaten your damage; whereas, Basi > Inf strike > Flanking > Larc any decent player would have stun broke and evaded ur main damage.

As for projectile hate yes that’s a thing but it doesn’t stop the Inf Strike & caltrops which is where most of the damage comes from. Also Steal goes through the projectile hate and that is 5 confusion & 3 more stacks of poison. This is how I was able to dismantle Chaith of all people.

I think the people who are arguing against this need to PM me so we can set up a live demonstration. Until then we’ll have to move forward with the understanding that most people do not have any experience with the build in discussion. I will also explain exactly how it works & why the synergy works so well so people can fully understand why this build is over tuned.

Oh so Power can’t use Basi Venom at all? Since I was disputing the claim that apparently Condis don’t have to hit to apply damage as the post I quoted.

And I already proved to a top 70 player last season that claimed it was OP by thrashing him over 20 times and died once to it.

And again there is tons of counter play to it though Cleanses, Resistance, projectile defense, blocks, Evades etc.

Which meta build/class did you use?

Used D/P daredevil with PI using Marauder Amulet the same build Berserker Amulet, then I used Core Thief using Berserker Amulet, then S/D Power using Marauder Amulet. then I used Menders Ele. I was gonna hop on to DH but that person was done losing over and over on the “OP” build.

Then he wasn’t very good at Thief.

Lol any excuse.

He was in the top 70 saying how he was beating top20+ players easily while I wasn’t even top 250. And if the build is so OP like people claim it is he should have been able to beat me, also I let him get his Condi Burst rotation of IS/Steal/Dodge/with spider Venom on me and i let it tick before cleansing it only ticked for 1k so OP much damage with all those conditions on me lol.

Every Meta and viable off Meta build has counters pre baked into them to counter the build easily, it gets shut down by any semi competent player.

I provide pictures as proof & you are just saying some random top 70 player you beat. Please by all means link the thread where he admits you whipped him or videos. Something b/c when you say his condi burst you let tick and it only did 1k damage when the poison ticks alone from Inf strike will hit you for 2k I kinda file this in the “Ok sure thing” pile.

My experience is very different from your tale.

Where again are these pictures? They aren’t in this thread as far as I can see lol. You haven’t posted anything that shows how OP s/d Thief is in the slightest all you posted was a screen shot of you being in Platinum, where are the pics or video showing how op it is?

I sadly didn’t record or screen shot the fights since all I was doing was showing that player how wrong they were and if I post their name I will get infracted so yeah.