S/d Condi needs to go

S/d Condi needs to go

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Posted by: saerni.2584

saerni.2584

I think the interesting thing is that most of what makes a condi thief dangerous is actually traits and utilities.

The on steal traits do a lot of the work. Traps can be very dangerous if they hit properly. The traited dodge, which not everyone uses, can apply decent cover conditions and AoE pressure.

As long as a set can apply a few conditions itself it can be used as a condi set. I say this because there has to be some consistent pressure or application of conditions. P/D is the most diverse when traited b/c it applies bleed, poison and torment x2.

S/D can do poison and torment. But what might make it unique and hard to deal with isn’t so much the teleport immobilize poison. Rather, it is the teleport at 1200 that is so strong. That is what makes it hard to kill and why S/D is getting complaints. They made S/D viable as a condition set but the same could be said of power S/D. Both may overperform as a result of the 1200 range whiplash.

Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
Thief (Daredevil)
Commandant of Pistol-Dagger and Apex Predator

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Posted by: Sly.9518

Sly.9518

Why are people blaming s/d on a set that has 1 condi tick, torment from dancing dagger.

Its statements like this that make me wonder if many of the people on this forum even play Thief.

You use sword, which immobilizes (and adds 2 poison – 3 if using venom)
Immobilize prevents your enemy from dodging
You dodge immediately – while they are immobilized (and add 1 cripple, 1 torment, 2 bleeds – +4 poison if using venom)

If you land sword 2, the immobilize will much more than likely not be cleansed by the time you dodge.

-No, this build is not overpowered. It is, however, overperforming.
-Pistol mainhand cannot do the same as this, as its immobilize is A) not instant, not a shadowstep and C) a projectile.

The immobilize only lands on S2 damage being applied which has a Animation time (not instant) which is completely separate from the Shadowstep portion, almost any moving player won’t get immob’ed, the only time the Immob lands every single time is against stationary targets, and as was shown from someone in this thread when I dueled them they messed up the S2 quite a bit and dodged before the attack portion of S2 which means no Immob which also meant no poison.

Most claims made about the Build being OP/over performing try to make the claims as if the defending player is standing still and not actively fighting/cleansing/blocking/moving/ anything else a player does. Players aren’t Target Golems they move cleanse Dodge etc.

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Posted by: Fat Disgrace.4275

Fat Disgrace.4275

:-/ I am fully aware of the imbo/poison bit, I thought that was obvious. All of there’s condI s/d builds only mostly do the #2/2 and nothing else, pretty sure s/p would be effective too with the blind feilds and interupt

Fat Disgrace (banned) Man Flu Survivor – war/The Cabbage -Thief (gunners hold / [TaG])

gw1 – healing signet/frenzy/charge

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Posted by: Alatar.7364

Alatar.7364

Anybody else find it funny how this post goes on for a total of 150 posts?
This alone IS a proof that there might be problem to be considered with S/D.
I think, as stated in a post before, that S/D indeed is overperforming, however it is not unbeatably overpowered as is claimed by many.
Those Many who claim that do not actually say from an objective view but from a subjective one. I believe they say that because they go and fight the S/D for no reason and die for no reason while much more logical approach was not to engage with S/D or if being engaged then do the best to run as you have to admit that you will most likely lose the fight, overcome the Ego telling you to prove how you are better, and run. It is a basic tactic that will most likely render your Victorious at the end, which is what matters. You would not engage in absolutely uneven or disadvantagous battles in reality as well (should you lead an Army or something)

I run away from S/D all the time and the time I just managed not-to-waste, go decap or +1, is what makes the difference. If I gave in to my pride I would not only suffer more but also make my team suffer as well.
Go with a bit of strategy/ tactic and the overperformance of S/D in single fights (1v1s) won’t matter at all in comparasion to what actually has to be done in order to actually Win.

~I Aear cân ven na mar

(edited by Alatar.7364)

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Posted by: Turk.5460

Turk.5460

Why are people blaming s/d on a set that has 1 condi tick, torment from dancing dagger.

Its statements like this that make me wonder if many of the people on this forum even play Thief.

You use sword, which immobilizes (and adds 2 poison – 3 if using venom)
Immobilize prevents your enemy from dodging
You dodge immediately – while they are immobilized (and add 1 cripple, 1 torment, 2 bleeds – +4 poison if using venom)

If you land sword 2, the immobilize will much more than likely not be cleansed by the time you dodge.

-No, this build is not overpowered. It is, however, overperforming.
-Pistol mainhand cannot do the same as this, as its immobilize is A) not instant, not a shadowstep and C) a projectile.

The immobilize only lands on S2 damage being applied which has a Animation time (not instant) which is completely separate from the Shadowstep portion, almost any moving player won’t get immob’ed, the only time the Immob lands every single time is against stationary targets, and as was shown from someone in this thread when I dueled them they messed up the S2 quite a bit and dodged before the attack portion of S2 which means no Immob which also meant no poison.

Most claims made about the Build being OP/over performing try to make the claims as if the defending player is standing still and not actively fighting/cleansing/blocking/moving/ anything else a player does. Players aren’t Target Golems they move cleanse Dodge etc.

Your reference to the person who dueled you shows nothing but the inexperience or lack of mechanical skill of that player. S/D power is my main build for WvW roaming. I have zero troubles landing Infiltrator’s Strike. If I changed from power to condi, I’m not going to suddenly whiff all of my sword 2’s – and I don’t since my off-set go-to build is now S/D condi. Single targets don’t move any differently in WvW than they do in sPvP.

I’m also going to assume you were also on a thief? Yeah, Thief vs. Thief is not the end-all and be-all of comparing the effectiveness of a build. This mentality of “Well, META thief can beat this, so its obvious that nothing needs to change” needs to go.

-Fort Aspenwood- [UNIV] [TLC] [ShW]
-Sorrow’s Furnace-

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Posted by: Sly.9518

Sly.9518

Why are people blaming s/d on a set that has 1 condi tick, torment from dancing dagger.

Its statements like this that make me wonder if many of the people on this forum even play Thief.

You use sword, which immobilizes (and adds 2 poison – 3 if using venom)
Immobilize prevents your enemy from dodging
You dodge immediately – while they are immobilized (and add 1 cripple, 1 torment, 2 bleeds – +4 poison if using venom)

If you land sword 2, the immobilize will much more than likely not be cleansed by the time you dodge.

-No, this build is not overpowered. It is, however, overperforming.
-Pistol mainhand cannot do the same as this, as its immobilize is A) not instant, not a shadowstep and C) a projectile.

The immobilize only lands on S2 damage being applied which has a Animation time (not instant) which is completely separate from the Shadowstep portion, almost any moving player won’t get immob’ed, the only time the Immob lands every single time is against stationary targets, and as was shown from someone in this thread when I dueled them they messed up the S2 quite a bit and dodged before the attack portion of S2 which means no Immob which also meant no poison.

Most claims made about the Build being OP/over performing try to make the claims as if the defending player is standing still and not actively fighting/cleansing/blocking/moving/ anything else a player does. Players aren’t Target Golems they move cleanse Dodge etc.

Your reference to the person who dueled you shows nothing but the inexperience or lack of mechanical skill of that player. S/D power is my main build for WvW roaming. I have zero troubles landing Infiltrator’s Strike. If I changed from power to condi, I’m not going to suddenly whiff all of my sword 2’s – and I don’t since my off-set go-to build is now S/D condi. Single targets don’t move any differently in WvW than they do in sPvP.

I’m also going to assume you were also on a thief? Yeah, Thief vs. Thief is not the end-all and be-all of comparing the effectiveness of a build. This mentality of “Well, META thief can beat this, so its obvious that nothing needs to change” needs to go.

I was saying your reference to the ease of instant cast Immob, it’s only instant for the Shadowstep, the Immob applies on only on the attack and if someone is moving away or strafing IS doesn’t always land the Immob no Immob no Poison, as I clearly laid out in the post you quoted, this is especially true if the person is affected by swiftness or superspeed which are in abundance in most Meta builds.

S2 has to points of failure the shadowstep mechanic, and the actual damaging mechanic to apply the Immob/Poison, plus the skill can’t effectively be spammed since the skill requires 2 separate casts one with a cast time and it costs 1/3 of the total Initiative pool. But hey to get a full Condi Burst relies on 3-4 separate skills and a Dodge, which can easily be cleansed before any real damage is allowed to tick, But some people claim just S2 and Dodge will kill someone.

People try to claim this is OP and Overperforming but never try to show proof and when I prove them wrong they make excuses, if it’s OP or Overperforming it should be easy to post actual proof like gameplay videos of it overperforming.

One Person claims not to play Thief and placed at a decent rating claimed my its only due to how OP the build is, but whenever I see them online they are playing Thief in WvW, funny how that works. That same person dueled me and tried saying how OP the build is by me sitting there letting the Condis tick without cleansing, guess what happened when I actually fought them, that’s when the excuses start coming out.

I play Thief, Ele, Rev and DH. The Rev is the only one with Issues dealing with Condi builds. The other classes Meta builds have zero issues with S/D Thief, since it is shutdown by any knowledge of Condi management or use of Defenses.

But so far no one has posted any proof showcasing how the build is overperforming.

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Posted by: Elxdark.9702

Elxdark.9702

Okey, I don’t like where this thread is going.

S/D or sword has nothing to do with this condi cheese build, sword 2# does indeed immobilize the target, but the thing that does the damage or the pressure is POISON and guess what if you remove the POISON then the pressure or damage will be gone.

I fear that anet is going to nerf the wrong thing again (sword) because people don’t even know how the build works.

The only thing anet has to do is remove the poison from panic strike and that’s it.

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Posted by: Azukas.1426

Azukas.1426

Why are people blaming s/d on a set that has 1 condi tick, torment from dancing dagger.

Its statements like this that make me wonder if many of the people on this forum even play Thief.

You use sword, which immobilizes (and adds 2 poison – 3 if using venom)
Immobilize prevents your enemy from dodging
You dodge immediately – while they are immobilized (and add 1 cripple, 1 torment, 2 bleeds – +4 poison if using venom)

If you land sword 2, the immobilize will much more than likely not be cleansed by the time you dodge.

-No, this build is not overpowered. It is, however, overperforming.
-Pistol mainhand cannot do the same as this, as its immobilize is A) not instant, not a shadowstep and C) a projectile.

The immobilize only lands on S2 damage being applied which has a Animation time (not instant) which is completely separate from the Shadowstep portion, almost any moving player won’t get immob’ed, the only time the Immob lands every single time is against stationary targets, and as was shown from someone in this thread when I dueled them they messed up the S2 quite a bit and dodged before the attack portion of S2 which means no Immob which also meant no poison.

Most claims made about the Build being OP/over performing try to make the claims as if the defending player is standing still and not actively fighting/cleansing/blocking/moving/ anything else a player does. Players aren’t Target Golems they move cleanse Dodge etc.

Your reference to the person who dueled you shows nothing but the inexperience or lack of mechanical skill of that player. S/D power is my main build for WvW roaming. I have zero troubles landing Infiltrator’s Strike. If I changed from power to condi, I’m not going to suddenly whiff all of my sword 2’s – and I don’t since my off-set go-to build is now S/D condi. Single targets don’t move any differently in WvW than they do in sPvP.

I’m also going to assume you were also on a thief? Yeah, Thief vs. Thief is not the end-all and be-all of comparing the effectiveness of a build. This mentality of “Well, META thief can beat this, so its obvious that nothing needs to change” needs to go.

I was hitting the dodge key too fast as I was up for LONGER than I should have been. That being said we did duel and he lost easily and had no chance to beat me.

He also showed up on a d/p SA, Trck, DD build.

We finally at the end did one D/P meta mirror duel and somehow this non thief player won that duel hands down too.

I rest my case, and listen to the fella above me who echoes my thoughts. Poison on panic strike is the problem. Remove that and all is well.

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Posted by: Sly.9518

Sly.9518

Why are people blaming s/d on a set that has 1 condi tick, torment from dancing dagger.

Its statements like this that make me wonder if many of the people on this forum even play Thief.

You use sword, which immobilizes (and adds 2 poison – 3 if using venom)
Immobilize prevents your enemy from dodging
You dodge immediately – while they are immobilized (and add 1 cripple, 1 torment, 2 bleeds – +4 poison if using venom)

If you land sword 2, the immobilize will much more than likely not be cleansed by the time you dodge.

-No, this build is not overpowered. It is, however, overperforming.
-Pistol mainhand cannot do the same as this, as its immobilize is A) not instant, not a shadowstep and C) a projectile.

The immobilize only lands on S2 damage being applied which has a Animation time (not instant) which is completely separate from the Shadowstep portion, almost any moving player won’t get immob’ed, the only time the Immob lands every single time is against stationary targets, and as was shown from someone in this thread when I dueled them they messed up the S2 quite a bit and dodged before the attack portion of S2 which means no Immob which also meant no poison.

Most claims made about the Build being OP/over performing try to make the claims as if the defending player is standing still and not actively fighting/cleansing/blocking/moving/ anything else a player does. Players aren’t Target Golems they move cleanse Dodge etc.

Your reference to the person who dueled you shows nothing but the inexperience or lack of mechanical skill of that player. S/D power is my main build for WvW roaming. I have zero troubles landing Infiltrator’s Strike. If I changed from power to condi, I’m not going to suddenly whiff all of my sword 2’s – and I don’t since my off-set go-to build is now S/D condi. Single targets don’t move any differently in WvW than they do in sPvP.

I’m also going to assume you were also on a thief? Yeah, Thief vs. Thief is not the end-all and be-all of comparing the effectiveness of a build. This mentality of “Well, META thief can beat this, so its obvious that nothing needs to change” needs to go.

I was hitting the dodge key too fast as I was up for LONGER than I should have been. That being said we did duel and he lost easily and had no chance to beat me.

He also showed up on a d/p SA, Trck, DD build.

We finally at the end did one D/P meta mirror duel and somehow this non thief player won that duel hands down too.

I rest my case, and listen to the fella above me who echoes my thoughts. Poison on panic strike is the problem. Remove that and all is well.

Lulz you won one duel out of 4, 3 of which you had less than 5% health and I had over 50% health, And those 3 duels were interrupted by a random Thief in the lobby. #funfacts

I showed up in a Da/Tri/Sa build because I was queuing up as that in unranked, I didn’t even use that build against you lulz. you say you don’t play Thief but everyone you are logged in you are on Thief in WvW. Funny how that works.

You mean the Duel where you Shadowshot Spammed the whole fight lol wooo you wouldn’t duel again after that last one.

Lulz.

You didn’t want to duel in the first place and only wanted me to sit and let Condis tick for you to prove how Op they are.

(edited by Sly.9518)

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Posted by: Turk.5460

Turk.5460

Lulz you won one duel out of 4, 3 of which you had less than 5% health and I had over 50% health, And those 3 duels were interrupted by a random Thief in the lobby. #funfacts

I showed up in a Da/Tri/Sa build because I was queuing up as that in unranked, I didn’t even use that build against you lulz. you say you don’t play Thief but everyone you are logged in you are on Thief in WvW. Funny how that works.

You mean the Duel where you Shadowshot Spammed the whole fight lol wooo you wouldn’t duel again after that last one.

Lulz.

You didn’t want to duel in the first place and only wanted me to sit and let Condis tick for you to prove how Op they are.

This reply sounds pretty far-fetched, especially adding in the “lulz.” I wouldn’t have believed you regardless, since you haven’t been actually replying to any of the tactics I’ve plainly layed out – but this kind of response probably won’t sit well with the rest of the readers here.

You haven’t proved anything, and since you, a thief main it seems, have lost to a non-thief main using this build – have only further strengthened our arguments of the build over performing.

Again, this conversation isn’t a Thief v. Thief conversation. Its about one thief build and how easy it is to play – vs all professions. Have you tried fighting against this build as one of the Thief’s usual counters? Such as Hammer Scrapper or Power DH? Try that and tell me how much they counter thief now.

-Fort Aspenwood- [UNIV] [TLC] [ShW]
-Sorrow’s Furnace-

(edited by Turk.5460)

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Posted by: Sly.9518

Sly.9518

Lulz you won one duel out of 4, 3 of which you had less than 5% health and I had over 50% health, And those 3 duels were interrupted by a random Thief in the lobby. #funfacts

I showed up in a Da/Tri/Sa build because I was queuing up as that in unranked, I didn’t even use that build against you lulz. you say you don’t play Thief but everyone you are logged in you are on Thief in WvW. Funny how that works.

You mean the Duel where you Shadowshot Spammed the whole fight lol wooo you wouldn’t duel again after that last one.

Lulz.

You didn’t want to duel in the first place and only wanted me to sit and let Condis tick for you to prove how Op they are.

This reply sounds pretty far-fetched, especially adding in the “lulz.” I wouldn’t have believed you regardless, since you haven’t been actually replying to any of the tactics I’ve plainly layed out – but this kind of response probably won’t sit well with the rest of the readers here.

You haven’t proved anything, and since you, a thief main it seems, have lost to a non-thief main using this build – have only further strengthened our arguments of the build over performing.

Again, this conversation isn’t a Thief v. Thief conversation. Its about one thief build and how easy it is to play – vs all professions. Have you tried fighting against this build as one of the Thief’s usual counters? Such as Hammer Scrapper or Power DH? Try that and tell me how much they counter thief now.

If only I was making it up.

Having issues posting a screenshot to enlighten people. Will try later.

Again I posted how it’s no issue on quite a few classes I play their Meta builds, a few posts up. #readingcomp I don’t just play Thief.

(edited by Sly.9518)

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Posted by: TwiceDead.1963

TwiceDead.1963

Lulz you won one duel out of 4, 3 of which you had less than 5% health and I had over 50% health, And those 3 duels were interrupted by a random Thief in the lobby. #funfacts

I showed up in a Da/Tri/Sa build because I was queuing up as that in unranked, I didn’t even use that build against you lulz. you say you don’t play Thief but everyone you are logged in you are on Thief in WvW. Funny how that works.

You mean the Duel where you Shadowshot Spammed the whole fight lol wooo you wouldn’t duel again after that last one.

Lulz.

You didn’t want to duel in the first place and only wanted me to sit and let Condis tick for you to prove how Op they are.

This reply sounds pretty far-fetched, especially adding in the “lulz.” I wouldn’t have believed you regardless, since you haven’t been actually replying to any of the tactics I’ve plainly layed out – but this kind of response probably won’t sit well with the rest of the readers here.

You haven’t proved anything, and since you, a thief main it seems, have lost to a non-thief main using this build – have only further strengthened our arguments of the build over performing.

Again, this conversation isn’t a Thief v. Thief conversation. Its about one thief build and how easy it is to play – vs all professions. Have you tried fighting against this build as one of the Thief’s usual counters? Such as Hammer Scrapper or Power DH? Try that and tell me how much they counter thief now.

And what are you? The unbiased judge?

He hasn’t proven anything either, though. The only thing he’s proven is that a helpless opponent who doesn’t fight back, will indeed eventually die from his Condi-ticks.

If this isn’t about Thief v Thief, then the thread should’ve been in the PvP forums, as anything discussed here will be discussed in relation to other Thief builds.

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Posted by: Axl.8924

Axl.8924

I was testing thief yesterday with s/d build and i don’t get it.Yeah we get loads of teleports but it can be countered and has less stealth than the trickster build with d/p

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Posted by: lighter.2708

lighter.2708

i play power s/d at t3 plat..this s/d condi spam no skill stuff seriously needs to go, it’s even more annoying then ventari rev, just because it requires 0 skill and kills off all the fun power builds except thief

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Posted by: Azukas.1426

Azukas.1426

i play power s/d at t3 plat..this s/d condi spam no skill stuff seriously needs to go, it’s even more annoying then ventari rev, just because it requires 0 skill and kills off all the fun power builds except thief

Sums up the issue with the build nicely.

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Posted by: saerni.2584

saerni.2584

FYI: saying “zero skill” is a good way to get everyone to ignore you.

Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
Thief (Daredevil)
Commandant of Pistol-Dagger and Apex Predator

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Posted by: Azukas.1426

Azukas.1426

FYI: saying “zero skill” is a good way to get everyone to ignore you.

No it really is & has to go.

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Posted by: saerni.2584

saerni.2584

This is just a “nuhuh” “uhhuh” argument at this point.

I mean, I’m sympathetic to the fact most players don’t know how to fight this and die to it. When I face a team with a good S/D condi player I have to hope my team can handle the build. I tend to attribute that to experience though. Most people aren’t used to fighting a thief with hit and run attributes as high as sword can get.

Same for facing a good enemy thief on power who just assassinates my teammates. Hard to win when your guardian is getting instagibbed (because not good at the class) and the enemy thief keeps your team feeling the pressure.

Ranged pressure really screws up this build. It has a hard time getting stealth and the evade frames aren’t that good. But, that’s the thing. Most people don’t bring ranged pressure and let the thief string them along long enough for their health to disappear.

Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
Thief (Daredevil)
Commandant of Pistol-Dagger and Apex Predator

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

There was a brief surge of these in WvW , but the people learned to adapt and counter it and I have not seen one in a while. The very nature of PvP seems to lead to there being more people fixated on the meta and unwilling to change up their builds because it will affect their defined “roles” and how they approach a given map to maximize points.

Rather then adapt and change up their builds or how they approach a given problem, anything that might upset the defined meta is seen as OP and immediate calls made to nerf or remove it.

This at the same time they complain about stagnant gameplay and the lack of build variety. This not limited to S/d condition. Virtually every build from DH traps to Deathblossom thief got the same type of reaction.

S/d power and virtually any decently constructed power thief will wreck this thing and as Saerni pointed out it weak to ranged pressure but heaven forbid people bring weapons to a PvP match not proscribed by the meta.

I am reminded of Henry Ford who when commenting on his Model T Ford said words to the effect of “you can get the car in any color you want as long as it is black”.

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Posted by: Azukas.1426

Azukas.1426

This is just a “nuhuh” “uhhuh” argument at this point.

I mean, I’m sympathetic to the fact most players don’t know how to fight this and die to it. When I face a team with a good S/D condi player I have to hope my team can handle the build. I tend to attribute that to experience though. Most people aren’t used to fighting a thief with hit and run attributes as high as sword can get.

Same for facing a good enemy thief on power who just assassinates my teammates. Hard to win when your guardian is getting instagibbed (because not good at the class) and the enemy thief keeps your team feeling the pressure.

Ranged pressure really screws up this build. It has a hard time getting stealth and the evade frames aren’t that good. But, that’s the thing. Most people don’t bring ranged pressure and let the thief string them along long enough for their health to disappear.

Let me spell it out for you.

1. I got plat playing s/d condi thief and I don’t play thief

2. The biggest person refuting that this build isn’t OP is Sly. He said he beat a top 70 player in like 20 odd duels w/out that player winning a single duel. I beat him with ease and I’m not a top 70 player or thief main. In fact when we both used d/p meta build and dueled I beat him at that too. How is that possible? I know someone here isn’t telling the truth and it ain’t me.

At this juncture in the thread the evidence I’ve provided shows this build is OP. The people refuting have zero evidence it is not, or have any of you countered my evidence. You’ve just used your opinion.

Sad I know more about thief….

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

This is just a “nuhuh” “uhhuh” argument at this point.

I mean, I’m sympathetic to the fact most players don’t know how to fight this and die to it. When I face a team with a good S/D condi player I have to hope my team can handle the build. I tend to attribute that to experience though. Most people aren’t used to fighting a thief with hit and run attributes as high as sword can get.

Same for facing a good enemy thief on power who just assassinates my teammates. Hard to win when your guardian is getting instagibbed (because not good at the class) and the enemy thief keeps your team feeling the pressure.

Ranged pressure really screws up this build. It has a hard time getting stealth and the evade frames aren’t that good. But, that’s the thing. Most people don’t bring ranged pressure and let the thief string them along long enough for their health to disappear.

Let me spell it out for you.

1. I got plat playing s/d condi thief and I don’t play thief

2. The biggest person refuting that this build isn’t OP is Sly. He said he beat a top 70 player in like 20 odd duels w/out that player winning a single duel. I beat him with ease and I’m not a top 70 player or thief main. In fact when we both used d/p meta build and dueled I beat him at that too. How is that possible? I know someone here isn’t telling the truth and it ain’t me.

At this juncture in the thread the evidence I’ve provided shows this build is OP. The people refuting have zero evidence it is not, or have any of you countered my evidence. You’ve just used your opinion.

Sad I know more about thief….

You have not demonstrated anything as the build can be countered quite easily just as the Dblossom thief can be countered. You continue to base your arguement on using traits and utilities that are not even part of S/d.. Take panic strike out of your build and you can still use the immob to lock people down in a caltrops field, steal to apply poison , dodge to apply bleeds via impaling and uncatchable , use venoms, use Impairing daggers , use Confusion off BA and only lose 2 poison stacks per 5 ini spent.

Were the poison add on immob removed tomorrow, this build could be tweaked with the add of another utility or trait to get close to that equivalent of damage back. As example you could trait needle trap as a utility with deadly trapper , pre cast on a steal and add 3 bleeds 3 poison 5 vuln and gain 5 stacks might every steal in addition to what you get off steal today all of this using 0 INI.

Put trappers respite in and on a heal you can add another 5 vuln , 5 might 4 poison and immob and three bleeds.

(edited by babazhook.6805)

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Posted by: Sly.9518

Sly.9518

This is just a “nuhuh” “uhhuh” argument at this point.

I mean, I’m sympathetic to the fact most players don’t know how to fight this and die to it. When I face a team with a good S/D condi player I have to hope my team can handle the build. I tend to attribute that to experience though. Most people aren’t used to fighting a thief with hit and run attributes as high as sword can get.

Same for facing a good enemy thief on power who just assassinates my teammates. Hard to win when your guardian is getting instagibbed (because not good at the class) and the enemy thief keeps your team feeling the pressure.

Ranged pressure really screws up this build. It has a hard time getting stealth and the evade frames aren’t that good. But, that’s the thing. Most people don’t bring ranged pressure and let the thief string them along long enough for their health to disappear.

Let me spell it out for you.

1. I got plat playing s/d condi thief and I don’t play thief

2. The biggest person refuting that this build isn’t OP is Sly. He said he beat a top 70 player in like 20 odd duels w/out that player winning a single duel. I beat him with ease and I’m not a top 70 player or thief main. In fact when we both used d/p meta build and dueled I beat him at that too. How is that possible? I know someone here isn’t telling the truth and it ain’t me.

At this juncture in the thread the evidence I’ve provided shows this build is OP. The people refuting have zero evidence it is not, or have any of you countered my evidence. You’ve just used your opinion.

Sad I know more about thief….

Funny when someone doesn’t play Thief. Too bad screenshots can’t be posted currently, that’s when the real fun comes in play.

And on the S/D Condi you beat me once, the other 3 times you died when I was at 50% each time and you didn’t want to duel in the first place because of cleanses and you complained whenever I cleansed.
This shall suffice for now.

https://imgur.com/a/h6FJw

(edited by Sly.9518)

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Posted by: Asur.9178

Asur.9178

Found this last week.

I’ll just leave this here, though I doubt any of the people in this forum would be able to comprehend it:

“1: What you fail to understand is the build itself is not overpowered. It is simply your mentality and emotions that is playing with your perception.

2: You can counter it easily; that is if you aren’t a kitten who pops all his cleanses and instantly clears any condis the instant they are applied. You should only be clearing them once they are at a threatening level.

3: A thief running away from you is never a thief winning an encounter. In fact, a thief running away means you have effectively won the skirmish.

4: The thing “pros” dislike is the fact that it has a pretty high effect on an unsuspecting player with a moderately low skill floor – this is a mentality problem (I’ll get to it). Again, this does NOT make it overpowered. D/p is infinitely better than condi s/d at this; BS-Steal from stealth is much worse and is about as skillful. Instantly downing to a stealth d/p ganking you is much worse than you slowly withering away to a condi s/d. It’s the feeling of slowly dying and the annoyance that you/everyone dislike(s). That is a problem with condis in general. Condis in general are kitten compared to power.

Again, the build itself is not the problem. It is your mentality, emotions, and bandwagoning that is the issue. If you want thieves to be permanently be stuck on d/p (or be useless) for the entire life of gw2, then sure…get rid of condi s/d, power s/d, and everything else to come.

However, if you want to try make PvP more enticing to everyone (that includes people who want to play different classes or a specific class), you should have some decent builds that low level players can play and enjoy. PvP should not be all about high skill builds only. Low/moderate skill builds that perform fairly well and is not plain overpowered compared to high skill builds is a good thing. High skill builds should always have a higher payout – which they do. This is not a MOBA, and you can stop treating it as such."

EDIT: I should also add, since this hilariously stupid argument is still ongoing, getting to plat/gold/etc using only condi s/d or some games as condi s/d and using that as an argument to nerf condi s/d is utterly stupid. It’s like saying hey, I got to plat/legend using power d/p or power s/d, ANet should nerf them cause they’re clearly overpowered.

When a build can be countered fairly easily, the build can’t possibly be titled overpowered. It makes you sound stupid when one tries to make a claim like that.

(edited by Asur.9178)

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Posted by: Azukas.1426

Azukas.1426

This is just a “nuhuh” “uhhuh” argument at this point.

I mean, I’m sympathetic to the fact most players don’t know how to fight this and die to it. When I face a team with a good S/D condi player I have to hope my team can handle the build. I tend to attribute that to experience though. Most people aren’t used to fighting a thief with hit and run attributes as high as sword can get.

Same for facing a good enemy thief on power who just assassinates my teammates. Hard to win when your guardian is getting instagibbed (because not good at the class) and the enemy thief keeps your team feeling the pressure.

Ranged pressure really screws up this build. It has a hard time getting stealth and the evade frames aren’t that good. But, that’s the thing. Most people don’t bring ranged pressure and let the thief string them along long enough for their health to disappear.

Let me spell it out for you.

1. I got plat playing s/d condi thief and I don’t play thief

2. The biggest person refuting that this build isn’t OP is Sly. He said he beat a top 70 player in like 20 odd duels w/out that player winning a single duel. I beat him with ease and I’m not a top 70 player or thief main. In fact when we both used d/p meta build and dueled I beat him at that too. How is that possible? I know someone here isn’t telling the truth and it ain’t me.

At this juncture in the thread the evidence I’ve provided shows this build is OP. The people refuting have zero evidence it is not, or have any of you countered my evidence. You’ve just used your opinion.

Sad I know more about thief….

Funny when someone doesn’t play Thief. Too bad screenshots can’t be posted currently, that’s when the real fun comes in play.

And on the S/D Condi you beat me once, the other 3 times you died when I was at 50% each time and you didn’t want to duel in the first place because of cleanses and you complained whenever I cleansed.
This shall suffice for now.

https://imgur.com/a/h6FJw

LOL it’s called proof of heroics farming

Need to unlock the elite somehow & PvE is not something I do

S/d Condi needs to go

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Posted by: Sly.9518

Sly.9518

But what happened to, never playing Thief? Just saying

S/d Condi needs to go

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Posted by: Azukas.1426

Azukas.1426

But what happened to, never playing Thief? Just saying

Called made one might as well finish it lol

Go fish since that’s all your doing now

S/d Condi needs to go

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Posted by: Sly.9518

Sly.9518

All I did was set the record straight on certain claims that were made provided proof showing how false some claims were. Just a saying.

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Posted by: Ivantreil.3092

Ivantreil.3092

Idk about you guys, but as someone who has faced this build, and doesnt play thief, i founded this build…. quite hard to read.

A D/P thief could attempt to Basilisk venom me with his steal, i just need to pop immunity and re-engage the fight, i know how to read the actions of a D/P thief, and i know i have options to win against him.

When a S/D condi did the same thing to me, and tried to apply the same thing… it backfired very hard, i simply died inside the immunity.

I have heard arguments that a good S/D condi willl load you conditions from time to time, but the ones i have faced? they bomb you with a Steal, daze combo (or thats has been my exp.)

I can stand a chance if i have all my utilities off cd, but if one catches me of surprise, chances are, i will lose the fight very soon.

It doesnt help that they also have options for break cc when i manage to land one (and that is IF i manage to, with all their evades…) in those thiefs, a simple tp safely from my distance.

They are defenitely squishy, but man, the pace of fighting a S/d condi is nothing enjoyable at all.

All what i know is that he will insta tp to me, load me conditions from a hit i didnt saw happening (steal surely), and that i will have to pray i have cleanses on my hand…

If i could predict the hits of the thief, just like the hits of a condi warrior, i would have zero concerns against this build…. i dont read minds for know when i should pull immunity from his steal, theres no time for react!

Platinum 2 Player.

PvP Rifle Engi player no matter how dark the meta is.

Metabattle: Drunk Engineer build

(edited by Ivantreil.3092)

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Posted by: saerni.2584

saerni.2584

The teleport you are referring to is Infiltrators Strike (and steal too) Ivan.

You’re right that Sword is hard to read. And the pace can be relentless (why a good thief v thief fight is exhausting for both players). Stealth is the best counter imo because it breaks their very target reliant build.

Scrapper with power rifle, Druid, trapper tune guard, etc should be strong counter to this.

Not sure if it was you running a engineer/scrapper but I did see one last season unloading huge auto attack damage on a rifle. That with some stealth could rip S/D condi apart.

Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
Thief (Daredevil)
Commandant of Pistol-Dagger and Apex Predator