Guild Wars 2

Basilisk Venom: Increased stun duration to 1.5 seconds. Stun breakers now work on this skill.

Well, it’s that time…There goes the only actually useful ganking elite. GG. Nuff said.
Have a good day remaining thieves.

I don’t know if this is sarcasm or gloating…

This is what as know as a serious note.
Best elite is now breakable and you can bet any non idiot is going to break it. Game over.

If your entire gameplay is relying on one skill,than its Game Over,i agree.I suppose you are one of those 14085 hp guys huh?

Lol. You’re assumptions amuse me. And before u get kitteny (but then again, probably too late) that’s what an “elite” is; A game changer. But no, I just liked being able to jump onto a guy with Mug+Steal and freeze him in place for a second and have my way, or better yet, give the skill to all my allies and let them freeze targets as well. The point was that it was a skill that a thief could bring and say, there is nothing u can do to stop this premeditated stun. Now its as simple and popping a stun breaker…Special = down the drain.

Every skill should be counterable.Elite or not.What amazes me is why the Moa wasn’t nerfed too.

Agreed on the MOA, so sick of being turned into a chicken that just takes it up the kitten with a weak claw jump attack that does no damage. At least give me the option to fly away!!!

Lol there it is!. The answer everyone was waiting to hear: Moa too.
Don’t get it? Only proves my point. Please don’t waste any one else’s time.

Again:every skill should be counterable(this is my opinion)
And again:if you entire gameplay is relying on 1 skill than you are wasting your time with thief class.(this is common opinion)

ZLE.8293:

Again:every skill should be counterable(this is my opinion)
And again:if you entire gameplay is relying on 1 skill than you are wasting your time with thief class.(this is common opinion)

Agreed, but in the end, this means Basilisk Venom is not worth taking over say, Devourer.

1 second, unbreakable stone venom > 4 second immobilize that is quickly broken.
1.5 second, easily breakable venom < 4 sec immobilize.

I dont see much of a reason to take Basilisk over Devourer’s, unless I want that 3rd utility slot open for something else, which I’d prefer.

Then again this is assuming that most PvPers have pretty quick reflexes. While some do, I’m pretty sure the majority has the reflexes of a sloth. So maybe I’m wrong.

Oh they are mocking us. And still the only underwater “elite”.

I rather use any other venom than that.

Kinda weird that they increase the stun, but make it breakable. Isn’t devour venom better then this skill now? Well can still use it for underwater.

I’m surprised we’re seeing major changes to abilities at all this late in the game’s development, to be honest. It’s pretty troubling that the developers have suddenly changed their tune from ‘We want players to build their character as they please, if something is perceived as overpowered then we want people to learn to counter them’ to knee-jerk nerfing.

Garenthal,

This game’s balancing is based on PvP. I don’t think that fact, but ArenaNet has been rather up front about it. Every change to Basilisk Venom seems to be based on PvP player reactions at the current PvP meta-game. These changes are completely expected and I assume that EVERY class is going to get smacked around from time to time as a result of PvP.

I’m only in this game for the PvE and I don’t like this aspect of GW2, but the game offers enough for me to over look this issue. Every skill will likely change at some time. Like it or not, that’s just how things are.

This was probably done due to cheesy venom sharing builds, and coordinated stacking of multiple seconds of an unbreakable stun on one target. Can’t do that with Moa, and especially not ever 30 some seconds.

OP’s QQ is a little dramatic.

Wiser with Age.3714:

Garenthal,

This game’s balancing is based on PvP. I don’t think that fact, but ArenaNet has been rather up front about it. Every change to Basilisk Venom seems to be based on PvP player reactions at the current PvP meta-game. These changes are completely expected and I assume that EVERY class is going to get smacked around from time to time as a result of PvP.

I’m only in this game for the PvE and I don’t like this aspect of GW2, but the game offers enough for me to over look this issue. Every skill will likely change at some time. Like it or not, that’s just how things are.

Yet they made a huge fuss about how they were going to balance the game around both PvE and PvP by having skills work differently in a controlled PvP environment. For whatever reason, they’ve backed down upon that promise – at the consequence of some classes underperforming notably in PvE because of PvP changes. It’s WoW all over again, it seems.

Aaand last but not least, ladies and gentlemeeen, 1 sec casting time yet!
No words about this…“improvement”. Simply no words.

ZLE IM one of those 14..7k hp guys, yet I dont rely on this skill, but it is nice. I do not agree with the OP, it not being affected by stun breaks was stupid, its a stun afterall. Now I just want them to make moa breakable and Im happy.

Garenthal.1480:

I’m surprised we’re seeing major changes to abilities at all this late in the game’s development, to be honest. It’s pretty troubling that the developers have suddenly changed their tune from ‘We want players to build their character as they please, if something is perceived as overpowered then we want people to learn to counter them’ to knee-jerk nerfing.

It’s an MMO, I’m sure this is the first of many.

I’m not sure why they don’t just try the City of Heroes route where some abilities work slightly differently in structured PvP.

PsionicDingo.2065:

I’m not sure why they don’t just try the City of Heroes route where some abilities work slightly differently in structured PvP.

A lot of MMOs do this. ArenaNet even switched over GW1 to this system. However WoW balances PvE around their PvP meta-game. In order to tap into that market share, ArenaNet is following the same philosophy. I don’t like it, but that’s how things are.

I can see the “business” strategy in it, if you put it that way.

Still, I’m curious how the Basilisk change is really a problem in either event – In PvE mobs don’t break it, so the “downside” to the new half-second is nothing. In PvP I suppose the strategy would be to watch them burn their break on something else and then catching them with the venom. Or is that not how things work in high level play?

I’m not knocking ANet or the players with criticisms, I’m genuinely curious since ANet doesn’t seem to like explaining why they made changes. Really, of all the complaints I’ve heard in the game for PvE or PvP, I’d just like to see them explain “This is why” or “Here’s how we do this dungeon” just so we know where they’re coming from when the forum says a dungeon is too hard or Orr is too frustrating or PvP isn’t flowing right.

Again, not saying either side is mistaken, it’s just in my line of work an example and explanation goes a long way to satisfying customers with their own ideas.

I thought it was cool how Basilisk Venom’s Stone effect was a unique mechanic, but it was possible to get a lot more mileage out of BV with a venom sharing build. I don’t think keeping someone locked down in an unbreakable control effect longer than 1-2 seconds is OK. I’m not sure changing it to a stun is the right way to go, I probably would have just made the Stone effect not stack at all.

Class unique skill nerfed to mediocre same-as-any-other-stun skill. Elite none the less. With a 1 second cast time and an on-hit requirement and a cooldown.

I’d much rather have seen it become a 6 second chill than a normal stun. I’d actually use it in WvW in that case.

I see no problem with this change.

An elite is worse than a non elite, that’s not a problem?

This is the only elite which is hardly useable in any build.
I mostly use Thief guild which i useful in all builds i work with (working with condition damage) but i can also take dagger storm if i want to. Not being a venom share build i cant use BV at all. 1,5 sec breakable stun? BV was bad before but they made it even worse now. Wont use it in any build anymore not even venom sharing 1.5 sec or 15 sec they break out of it arround 1 sec anyway

Kneru.8014:

ZLE.8293:

Again:every skill should be counterable(this is my opinion)
And again:if you entire gameplay is relying on 1 skill than you are wasting your time with thief class.(this is common opinion)

Agreed, but in the end, this means Basilisk Venom is not worth taking over say, Devourer.

1 second, unbreakable stone venom > 4 second immobilize that is quickly broken.
1.5 second, easily breakable venom < 4 sec immobilize.

I dont see much of a reason to take Basilisk over Devourer’s, unless I want that 3rd utility slot open for something else, which I’d prefer.

Then again this is assuming that most PvPers have pretty quick reflexes. While some do, I’m pretty sure the majority has the reflexes of a sloth. So maybe I’m wrong.

They aren’t mutually exclusive.

Basilisk is a stun. Devourer is a condition. Asside from Shake it Off, all stunbreaks that also remove conditions are on a 50sec+ cooldown (Clensing Fire, Plague Signet, Roll For Initiative, Contemplation of purity, ect.).

Yes, it can be countered now, but now Basilisk and Devourer make each other better instead of being redundant. People will have to pop 2 cooldowns to remove both venoms, or take the longer cooldown stunbreak… and they’ll only get out if they’re extremely aware and haven’t popped their long cooldown elsewhere. That’s BEFORE factoring in trait synergies or head games by staggering their application…

This particular change wasn’t as bad as I thought it was at first glance.

Before I go any further I would like to point out that this Venom was canceled with Steal since it counted as a missed hit unless traited with Mug. With mug you got an extra 5kcrit or ~2.5knon-crit opening damage as well as applying the Venom allowing this skill to not only be extremely viable but downright amazing..if traited for.

@ZLE; You obviously have no idea about what or why I am disappointed in this change and since it continues to go over your head please stop bothering to get it.

@Silentsins; Your entire argument is now saying “Take two skills [and hope they aren’t able to react fast] to pin someone down because doing it with either one alone isn’t viable.” That’s where the point falls apart.

@lordburka; With the trait mug used on this and proper macros I could hold someone in place for a second while I burst with near 100% success. The other Elites are not burst aiding skills, they work better with sharing venoms or vs. massive number of foes, strictly speaking the other elites are simply not worth taking in a 1v1 glass cannon ganking bar as that was not their intended usage.

Over all the skill itself is still technically good, especially for a burst class, however since you only have 1 burst and are useless after that, a foe popping a stun breaker not only saves his life but has a very good chance at ruining yours. Not generally bad as it rewards the foe for skilled play but it does make the elite skill that was obviously designed to work for a glass cannon completely pointless in the end.

@Sco; Was not aware we could use macro’s or do you use them outside of the game?
Anyway i see your point here but i do not really agree with it. While i see uses for 1v1 BV it isn’t really mandatory since you can achieve your goals in other ways and still have another elite with you. (immobilize has basically the same effect since the focus on a 1v1 burst is to deal damage without youre opponent getting away and able to react properly which is achieved by immobilize). I agree daggerstorm has little use in a 1v1 setup but i would still use TG over BV for distraction, scorpion wire, blinds and just damage as a superior skill.

I think I should clerify, I used the term macros loosely. I simply rebound keys onto my mouse and made it so (in this particular case) I could like use 2 skill slots with 1 button if need be instead of having to push like 6&7 which is a pain in the butt, especially with 1 hand on the keyboard lol. If that isn’t allowed then ban me now or simply take away the ability to rebind keys in game. This is a different issue and ignoring the main point of the post so lets get back on track.

Also @lord you do realize that you entire statement about it not being needed only supports the fact that it is now even more useless and completely pointless to bring when before it was a elite version of stun, which always had its uses. You obviously dislike the skill and that’s fine to have a preference but the mere fact you’d rather bring a utility skill instead of said elite (even more so now I assume) is the very problem being addressed; uselessness

Sco.9615:

@Silentsins; Your entire argument is now saying “Take two skills [and hope they aren’t able to react fast] to pin someone down because doing it with either one alone isn’t viable.” That’s where the point falls apart.

Heh. That wasn’t my argument. Even if you only bring one of them, it’s on your opponent to figure out what you’re bringing. It’s not “they’re going to break it every time” like people are pretending.

I’m not trying to say that it’s not a nerf, but the fact that opponents can react to it isn’t as significant as people are making it out to be, and it now forces build wars.

Oh, and I would hardly call shortbow support “useless after one burst”.

Silentsins.3726:

Sco.9615:

@Silentsins; Your entire argument is now saying “Take two skills [and hope they aren’t able to react fast] to pin someone down because doing it with either one alone isn’t viable.” That’s where the point falls apart.

Heh. That wasn’t my argument. Even if you bring one, it’s on them to figure out what you’re bringing. It’s not “they’re going to break it every time” like people are pretending.

I’m not trying to say that it’s not a nerf, but the fact that opponents can react to it isn’t as significant as people are making it out to be, and it now forces build wars.

Oh, and I would hardly call shortbow support “useless after one burst”.

That was your point exactly and don’t deny it. “It’s on them to figure out…”
AKA: Hope you’re fighting a bad player.
Nty.
Also, idk where you’re going with shortbow but I don’t recall anyone saying anything about bursting with a shortbow. LOL.
Anyways, this post has run it’s course and is obviously only to get more off topic so have a good day everyone, take care.

Look up “strawman argument”.

Anyways, peace.