Guild Wars 2

I’d like to open up some discussion regarding the thief utility skill, ‘Scorpion Wire’.

Background & my take on things:
Scorpion Wire – at least in my opinion – is one of the skills that defines what a thief is at its core: an agile trickster that utilises the utility of skills and abilities (whether it be through stealth or evasion) to punish and vanquish foes. And what better ability to facilitate that purpose than a projectile that you can fling out, and pull a target with! In fact, I think most would would agree that it is this type of play-style that keeps us “thief mains” going; it’s extremely satisfying to employ our raw utility with perfect timing, and to win a battle because of that (particularly in PvP, and WvW). With that being said, Scorpion Wire is is probably the most satisfying ability to land that we have in our kit… but that’s actually the problem, isn’t it… how often do you actually land Scorpion Wire?

The Problem:
The mechanics of Scorpion Wire, compared to other pulls in the game (we’ll do some comparing later), are rather unique. I like to think of it as a slow ballista… just without any noticeable damage, that has the capacity to pull a target to you. What I mean by this is that the MAIN issue with Scorpion Wire is that it – like a ballista shot – can be simply negated by strafing (moving left to right, everso slightly). And with most players (or monster if you PvE) constantly moving, and darting in different directions, you can imagine how landing the ability in the first place can be frustrating. And if you cast it whilst moving, against a target that is also moving… just forget it. And that’s precisely what people do, thief needs reliable utility to function, and thus scorpion wire has become heavily underused and largely underrated.

And here are the reasons why (Warning: I’m Australian, so sarcasm inc.)

1. [It’s slow] The wire projectile speed travels quite slow, with a maximum distance of 1200 you can see it coming a mile away. To give you some perspective, after being cast at max distance I could probably lift my foot and slam it onto the “WASD” section of the keyboard, and the ability won’t land because I moved.
2. [It’s easy to see, and can be dodged… without dodging] It is extremely telegraphed with a short cast time (your character puts their hand their behind head, and then throws the wire out), allowing players adequate time to dodge, block, invulnerability, or… wait for it… move one square to the left during travel-time…
3. [Obsolete damage] The damage is EXTREMELY low with a base damage of 276. That’s right, your opponent may need therapy after being hit by anet’s generous 276 damage >.>… Now lets be honest guys, nobody uses Scorpion Wire to “1-bang somebody”, as it main function comes from being an on-demand pull (which can act as an interrupt, a gap closer and or a crowd control), but giving us a base damage of 276 is almost insulting, making the damage 0 would make no difference to its usability.
4. [Doesn’t support stealth gameplay] The scorpion wire currently reveals you if you use it in stealth, I presume this is because of the WHOPPING 276 damage you can deal, as any form of damage will cause you to exit stealth. This further isolates Scorpion Wire’s usability to players who run predominantly non-stealth builds (like myself), as there are more ‘advantageous’ utility skills available that facilitate stealth-gameplay.
5. [It has no functionality with basilisk venom] Currently when used with a venom, because the damage initiates first, the pull function of the utility will not trigger; heartbreaking considering bassie venom now make attacks unblockable!!

Potential fixes:

1. Reverse the order in which damage and the actual pull effect is applied, allowing for the pull to initiate first, followed by the damage. This would allow for synergy with venoms, without compromising the utility’s purpose or function.
2. Increase projectile speed by 25-50%. It’s simply too slow at the moment.
3. Adjust how the wire itself tracks a target. Maybe copy and paste the code that governs spectral grasp, or spear of justice, so that the projectile “locks onto” a target, rather than just travelling along a singular, linear vector. NOTE: the wire doesn’t need to be unblockable, it just needs to land in the first place. How is it that other professions get a pull that tracks, and we don’t? C’MON YO
4. Increase the damage, or take it away altogether. Both changes could help facilitate the utility being used in different ways. The damage should be at least 800. To give perspective, the warriors kick ability (another underused ability), is almost double Scorpion Wires damage at 552 with a 12 second cooldown, as opposed to a 20 second one.
5. Give it a bleed! If you’re going to throw a spear at something and then rip it towards you, then it would be thematically cool for it to leave a deadly bleed. Maybe it could be given more purpose through condition builds and playstyles.

Scorpion Wire thematically is a super cool ability, and even though it misses 40% of the time, I still run it sometimes because of satisfaction that ensues upon landing it (especially when plucking people off of towers in WvW). The phrase “build diversity” seems to be quite controversial lately, but I’d like to see some of the ‘less used’ utilities become useful so we have more options to play with; it’s the small things that go a long way.

I’d love to hear the voices of any Scorpion Wire lovers out there, and the community’s opinion with reference to potential quality of life changes/suggestions for the utility.

All feedback is welcomed (be kind please) & thanks for reading,

Lae – The Praetorians.

Mmm, I do agree my good sir. I think there are quite a few skills in the game that could use at least a small amount of fiddling with if for nothing else than to make the game more “professional” for lack of a better term. I’ll use League as an example since its another game I play; not every item in league is a super viable meta thing, but at least every item does what it says it will.

Edit~ Also, though I think this has more to do with the maps in WvW rather than the skill itself, scorpion wire ends up being obstructed my nothing more than a pebble on the floor or a slight rise in the ground more often than not when I roam with it.

I’d be happier with even just the increased speed. I’ve learned to read people and can usually land it but I know it’s a pain, especially if you don’t use much. Unintentionally I use it more for interrupts and condition clearing currently while once in awhile I’ll pull someone off a wall or back into my kill box.

MedievalMemer.6392:

Mmm, I do agree my good sir. I think there are quite a few skills in the game that could use at least a small amount of fiddling with if for nothing else than to make the game more “professional” for lack of a better term. I’ll use League as an example since its another game I play; not every item in league is a super viable meta thing, but at least every item does what it says it will.

That’s a really nice point. I mean, all other pulls in the game actually function as an on demand pull and don’t have all of these associated variables I have mentioned. It would be great to use it, and to actually see your opponent be dragged across the map!

kash.9213:

I’d be happier with even just the increased speed. I’ve learned to read people and can usually land it but I know it’s a pain, especially if you don’t use much. Unintentionally I use it more for interrupts and condition clearing currently while once in awhile I’ll pull someone off a wall or back into my kill box.

Absolutely kash, I feel what you’re saying! It’s not unusable, but it demands you to position yourself in a particular manner to land it. Perhaps just a speed increase would be enough to negate this issue? I’d love to see it used more often!

With that being said though, comparitatively to other pulls in the game it’s super lackluster.

Devs make it happen! This is perfect.

I think it should function like guardian f1. Stacks bleed until you pull them. Initial piercing should do damage. Fix pull.

i agree it should be like guardian pull. 2 part mech just best way to fix game problems with out other balancing issue.

alchemyst.2165:

I think it should function like guardian f1. Stacks bleed until you pull them. Initial piercing should do damage. Fix pull.

I would personally like to see the ability maintain its historical value in terms of functionality. That is, to pull upon impact rather than being a two-phase approach. Also I think the authenticity of the ‘spear of justice’ should be maintained and should feel unique, but I definitely like the idea of the Scorpion Wire applying a bleed, as well as tracking to the target properly.

Agree 100%. There is nothing going for scorpion wire, not for damage, reliable cc, or even utility in any manner. The whole skill is just outdated as is most of the thief kit. There could be a lot of neat things done to bring this skill in line, biggest thing is for the developers to actually try something, rather than stare at it (don’t even think they do that, more like turn a blind eye.)

Give it something unique like “recharge steal by fixed amount (10 seconds, 50%, 100%? anything)” OR have it “pierce and steal boons, up to 3 foes get pulled, 1 boon from each foe.”

Anything at this point would be nice.

I think if it made more reliable , quicker in the travel time it is fine as a skill.Right now it too easy to avoid and with all that on demand stability available, I do not think this warranted. I use it coupled with PI and Trickster so when I use it I generate an interrupt for a PI if I manage to interrupt a skill and clear a condition. The low cooldown is very nice.

If in WvW and you got an interrupt sigil in your build such as draining or absorption it can steal a boon or steal 1k in life on top. Used in conjunction with basi it also nice against defiant bars.

Compared to dragonhunter spear both scorpion wire and necro’s spectral grasp seem sort of lackluster. Improving the function of some vanilla skills would help bridge some of the power gap introduced with HoT, if that’s something anet is interested in doing. Not even making vanilla strong, just giving it some QoL updates.

NinjaEd.3946:

Agree 100%. There is nothing going for scorpion wire, not for damage, reliable cc, or even utility in any manner. The whole skill is just outdated as is most of the thief kit. There could be a lot of neat things done to bring this skill in line, biggest thing is for the developers to actually try something, rather than stare at it (don’t even think they do that, more like turn a blind eye.)

Give it something unique like “recharge steal by fixed amount (10 seconds, 50%, 100%? anything)” OR have it “pierce and steal boons, up to 3 foes get pulled, 1 boon from each foe.”

Anything at this point would be nice.

I really like the idea of maybe adding a boon steal to it.. there are some really nice boon-ripping skills that it would synergize nicely with – super awesome input. To be honest it just needs to hit though, the target tracking is dreadful.

There are so many unused unique utilities, especially with HoT now in full swing. The old ‘vanilla’ skills definitely need some attention.

UndefinedLime.2063:

I’d like to open up some discussion regarding the thief utility skill, ‘Scorpion Wire’.

Potential fixes:

1. Reverse the order in which damage and the actual pull effect is applied, allowing for the pull to initiate first, followed by the damage. This would allow for synergy with venoms, without compromising the utility’s purpose or function.
2. Increase projectile speed by 25-50%. It’s simply too slow at the moment.
3. Adjust how the wire itself tracks a target. Maybe copy and paste the code that governs spectral grasp, or spear of justice, so that the projectile “locks onto” a target, rather than just travelling along a singular, linear vector. NOTE: the wire doesn’t need to be unblockable, it just needs to land in the first place. How is it that other professions get a pull that tracks, and we don’t? C’MON YO
4. Increase the damage, or take it away altogether. Both changes could help facilitate the utility being used in different ways. The damage should be at least 800. To give perspective, the warriors kick ability (another underused ability), is almost double Scorpion Wires damage at 552 with a 12 second cooldown, as opposed to a 20 second one.
5. Give it a bleed! If you’re going to throw a spear at something and then rip it towards you, then it would be thematically cool for it to leave a deadly bleed. Maybe it could be given more purpose through condition builds and playstyles.

Get rid of the damage entirely, so we can use it effectively in stealth. That’s the first step. Adding more damage to more skills…blech. Stealth is good.

UndefinedLime.2063:

NinjaEd.3946:

Agree 100%. There is nothing going for scorpion wire, not for damage, reliable cc, or even utility in any manner. The whole skill is just outdated as is most of the thief kit. There could be a lot of neat things done to bring this skill in line, biggest thing is for the developers to actually try something, rather than stare at it (don’t even think they do that, more like turn a blind eye.)

Give it something unique like “recharge steal by fixed amount (10 seconds, 50%, 100%? anything)” OR have it “pierce and steal boons, up to 3 foes get pulled, 1 boon from each foe.”

Anything at this point would be nice.

[b]I really like the idea of maybe adding a boon steal to it.. there are some really nice boon-ripping skills that it would synergize nicely with – super awesome input. To be honest it just needs to hit though, the target tracking is dreadful.

There are so many unused unique utilities, especially with HoT now in full swing. The old ‘vanilla’ skills definitely need some attention.[/b]

^And then all of this. Just, all of it.

rlly like this idea, guards pull aswell as engis pull locks on, scorp wire has nothing like this

It seems to me to be roughly on par with ele’s ‘gust’ – that is, abilities that are so hard to land that the advice regarding them is usually ’don’t.’ The fixes make sense, it’d be nice to see it become a useful skill.

Before they fix scorpion wire, they need to fix “invalid path” first otherwise a revised scorpion wire will still be worthless.

Bump – opinions continue:

Personally, I always thought Scorpion Wire should have been an F3, with a rather long CD.

Thieves should always be equipped with a grappling device.

Just going to link my preexisting thread about Thief utilities in case anybody wants to think about other skills too, since vanilla skills were mentioned. I still like the idea of changing the functionality to something like GW1’s Scorpion Wire, but that would really only be useful for sPvP.

I don’t really understand why they added Guardian’s throwing spear wire without using that new and improved technology for Scorpion Wire.

Considering that all pull skills in this game are buggy to the point of being too unreliable, I don’t see any buffs to scorpion wire really being worthwhile.

scorpion wire is a CaC pull with a misleading tooltip :p

Scorpion Wire is how I manage to pull people out of stacked melee blobs in WvW and burst them down. It’s pretty nifty and on a short cooldown. My main problems with it are indeed the terrible tracking where your target can easily strafe away from it without even realising and how how body blocking prevents you from pulling your intended target. So better tracking and a pierce would get my vote.

But I do like the boon ripping idea. Just wouldn’t want to see it buffed to the point where it’s as ridiculous as Spear of Justice.

We don’t need more spears of justice in the game. It is already a toxic enough mechanic on one class.

UndefinedLime.2063:

the ability won’t land because I moved.

This is a problem with a lot of abilities with slow projectile speeds and I wish it would be fixed across the board.

Edit: Also give every character the line “Get over here!” when they use it.

MeatHugger.5768:

UndefinedLime.2063:

the ability won’t land because I moved.

This is a problem with a lot of abilities with slow projectile speeds and I wish it would be fixed across the board.

Edit: Also give every character the line “Get over here!” when they use it.

The skill stolen from rev is actually pretty slow and quite easy to land.

Make it arc like cluster bomb to rip people off walls c":

For fun if I could, I would make it a teleport. Thief ports to players location, grabs them and ports back. This would open up a myriad of play options in sPvP and WvW.

At the very least it should work as well as the DH pull.

Straegen.2938:

For fun if I could, I would make it a teleport. Thief ports to players location, grabs them and ports back. This would open up a myriad of play options in sPvP and WvW.

At the very least it should work as well as the DH pull.

pretty much that :

look at 0:43.

they have the technology to do that, they already have done it for revenant. The grab might be a problem though. But it’s not scorpion wire anymore…

Wargameur.6950:

they have the technology to do that, they already have done it for revenant. The grab might be a problem though. But it’s not scorpion wire anymore…

True and I know this was a nod to MK but a teleport function solves some fundamental issues. The most obvious is the terrain issues with pulls in this game. Another is that this skill would give extra dimensions for a thief in skirmish. Plucking an over-specialized build out of a pack of bunkers would be a utility worth running and create counter play that is very much missing in the current meta.

If they finally learn how to build skill mechanics properly, It would be nice to see scorp wire attached to dancing dagger as a flip over skill with a cost of 4 or 5 initiative.

I feel this would be a huge improvement for S/D and power D/D, the kind that just might make them extremely viable competitively. Will improve condi D/D but not by a whole lot because of the need for death blossom spams. Would be intereesting to see how it would be used with P/D.

It is pathetic that dh traps still affect enemies that shadowstep. I dunno when these guys will finally move away from creating counter classes. If scorp wire was attached to dancing dagger, there would be some much needed counterplay to traps. It is not right that one horrible DH would breeze past an expert thief on mechanics alone

Straegen.2938:

…“Plucking an over-specialized build out of a pack of bunkers would be a utility worth running and create counter play that is very much missing in the current meta.”

Yes, the meta at the moment — especially in WvW — really supports running in larger numbers rather than smaller, coordinated groups. I think the notion of being able to reliably isolate a target is something that needs to be appreciated a lot more than it already is!! And scorpion wire fits the bill, we have the tool guys… it however needs to either:
a) track the target, or
b) travel at the slightly faster speed to avoid just been strathed or stepped.

Even for people who are experienced with scorpion wire, it is exceptionally demoralising when it doesn’t land on anything; it’s the reason why many just don’t bother anymore.. And that’s a real shame!!!

Lae

scorpion wire has its uses and it isnt as bad as it is commonly believed

of course its not DH pull but then again all DH virtues are completely b/s anyway

Lexander.4579:

scorpion wire has its uses and it isnt as bad as it is commonly believed

of course its not DH pull but then again all DH virtues are completely b/s anyway

I mean every skill has its uses. I’ve successfully used SW before, but it just isn’t a high-percentage play. It’s high-risk but not high-reward. I think it should be like a less-effective version of Spear of Justice, maybe it should pierce but the pull should only affect the target, it shouldn’t apply a damaging condition, it shouldn’t be unblockable, and the auto-pull (rather than SoJ’s pull-on-demand) is fine by me, it forces you to be more tactical. But it should have the 1/4 cast time and the same projectile speed. Without those buffs it’s not worth taking, the low CD isn’t worth it.

I agree scorpion wire needs a buff, however we don’t need another spear of justice or magnet. If it could be unblockable and increase with a speed increase it would viable. Also removing the damage would be nice (considering its f***ing useless) so you could have synergy when in stealth or using basilisk venom.

An increase in the velocity of the projectile along with removing the damage portion of the skill would improve the skill to a position where it will be usable with basilisk and from stealth. Or if the velocity of the projectile is not increased, the skill could function similar to spear of justice or spectral grasp since it really is too easy to strafe away at ranges 900+. This skill should however remain as a projectile so that it can be blocked or reflected in order to not be a spear of justice clone to promote counter-play and also maintain a uniqueness to it.

I had an idea a while back: what if SW after pulling in the target kept them in place by knocking down and pulling them back when they attempt to move away from the area where they were pulled, similarly to guardians ring of warding and elite trap, for a short duration.
I think this would make SW comparable to similar skills, since, after all, it is a utility skill with a lengthy cool down, while the others don’t force you to use up a utility slot and are better overall.

Also, I agree it needs to track it’s target like the rest of the ranged skills in the game.
(This also applies to impairing daggers)

Zeescar.3547:

I agree scorpion wire needs a buff, however we don’t need another spear of justice or magnet. If it could be unblockable and increase with a speed increase it would viable. Also removing the damage would be nice (considering its f***ing useless) so you could have synergy when in stealth or using basilisk venom.

Tbh if you just removed the damage then it would be completely viable. Still difficult but since you could use it in stealth your enemy would be less likely to dodge/block at the wrong time.

Ragion.2831:

If they finally learn how to build skill mechanics properly, It would be nice to see scorp wire attached to dancing dagger as a flip over skill with a cost of 4 or 5 initiative.

That would actually be really sick. Either that or dancing dagger would mark targets and you could shadowstep to them if you use the mark with death blossom (so d/d gets buff, and /d isnt op)

But I agree scorpion wire is a bit slow, and I feel like a couple other thief skills are awesome but super slow/difficult to hit cough impairing daggers cough

One possible solution could also be to just copy the code from the ‘spear of justice’ but in place just give it a cast time instead of being an instant ability.. for balance reasons of course.

I love the “remove damage” idea so it can be used without revealing from stealth…or even make it a tethered ability (and speed the throw up some, slow af). Even if this is all that was done, id use it in a heartbeat

make it as fast as spear of justice velocity and have it apply a stack of 5 bleeds when the pull is successful.

I agree. It’s a great skill when it lands. . . so make it track target and fix the “obstructed” kitten and I think it would be all good in my book..

I like those suggestions a lot. The only time I use Scorpion Wire is at the Dragon’s Stand meta event when the bugs need to be calmed. I wished I could use it when a breakbar is broken, like on the Shaman Champion in the Volcanic fractal. This would be a perfect skill to get him away from prisoners in the last phase.

If they let me have a go with it, I would turn it into an enemy teleport with a 900 range. If the enemy fails a stun check, they get teleported to the thieves location and knocked down. No terrain checks. A reverse Shadow Step… a Shadow Pull if you will.

I wish we had a trait that applied a venom after using a healing skill .. similar to trappers respite

I like the idea of trappers respite but it stinks unless u use scorpion wire to pull people through it … and scorpion wire just misses all the time so that idea is just nothing more than a gimmick

caveman.5840:

I wish we had a trait that applied a venom after using a healing skill .. similar to trappers respite

I like the idea of trappers respite but it stinks unless u use scorpion wire to pull people through it … and scorpion wire just misses all the time so that idea is just nothing more than a gimmick

Trappers respite used to be a lot better before the arm time was introduced, it’s hard to use effectively as an aggressive option now. It’s good when kiting if you keep an eye to see what triggers it, steal back then choking gas spam. It’s also useful against thieves, lay the trap by healing then immediately weapon swapping as the thief stealth then wait for him to reangage.

I get your point though, it would be nice to use our pull and traps in the same way DH does but it’s so unreliable in comparison. And a venom on heal would be fine with me, provided it wasn’t in DA, Trickery or DD, as those lines are already overloaded.

caveman.5840:

I wish we had a trait that applied a venom after using a healing skill .. similar to trappers respite

I like the idea of trappers respite but it stinks unless u use scorpion wire to pull people through it … and scorpion wire just misses all the time so that idea is just nothing more than a gimmick

Trappers respite used to be a lot better before the arm time was introduced, it’s hard to use effectively as an aggressive option now. It’s good when kiting if you keep an eye to see what triggers it, steal back then choking gas spam. It’s also useful against thieves, lay the trap by healing then immediately weapon swapping as the thief stealth up then stand on it as you wait for him to reangage.

I get your point though, it would be nice to use our pull and traps in the same way DH does but it’s so unreliable in comparison. And a venom on heal would be fine with me, provided it wasn’t in DA, Trickery or DD, as those lines are already overloaded.