Raining Rainbows lvl 80 ranger ~~~~~ SBI server
Shadow refuge nerf
Sure, why not.
/15chararacters.
Attachments:
See the problem is that stealth and evades are thief’s natural way to negate damage, like blocks and protection are for guardian. Thief does not have a “no damage” button. Their way to mitigate damage is evades and stealth. This is less efficient than many other forms of damage mitigation for a simple reason. In general, you cannot continue to deal full damage while using these. Example, backstabs will take you out of stealth and prevent it for several seconds. Having vigor and extra dodges is great, but you aren’t dealing damage while doing it. Obviously, some weapon skills have dodges built in, but for things like Pistol Whip, startups are hardly something one wants to see on damage mitigation. Other classes have blocks(Pretty much every class but thief, and I think necro, has access to some sort of block), evasions that don’t stop attacking(distortion), damage prevention that doesn’t stop attacking(warrior stances, Signet of Stone, Passive blocks, etc), or other forms of passive damage mitigation such as on demand protection.
People complain about stealth because it isn’t something you can reliably counter with the same strategy for every thief because of its nature. Stealth means no telegraphs, but it also means no damage. A fair tradeoff if you ask me. People who complain about it essentially want a stealthless class that relies wholly on evades/blinds(and then they complain about evade and blind spamming) and that just isn’t going to happen.
When your main way of surviving is being more mobile than other classes and re-positioning yourself mid-combat, it only makes sense that you’d be able to do it better than other classes.
You know what…
I like how you’re trading “unneeded” changes / holding them hostage. Neat spin actually, typically people don’t think far enough to come up with a compensation. This is really clever.
Revert the unneeded changes simply because they’re unneeded. Then find another bargaining chip and come back.
I approve of the quality of this QQ/Nerf request.
Sure, why not.
/15chararacters.
Its only the next logical step.
Sure, why not.
/15chararacters.Its only the next logical step.
And what would that step be?
Systematically eliminatiing all the useful options for thief one by one?
I lol’d. This must be a joke thread, because everybody knows how to counter SR.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
I love how nobody even really bothers to try and fight it anymore. Whining about thieves being able to easily get away is like whining about Eles having too much aoe, or whining about Guardians having too many heals. I know English is not the OP’s first language, but seriously, what the fvck do you think a “thief” is?
But whatever. Continue on. Whiners are going to continue whining and Anet is going to continue nerfing thieves into the ground like they did with the assassin class in GW1. I’m actually kind of curious to see what whiners come up with next…the professional balance forum doesn’t have the usual volume of thief whines since the update patch and I’m getting kinda bored.
Systematically eliminatiing all the useful options for thief one by one?
I guess my picture didn’t illustrate how much of a kitten I give about yet another one of this threads and ideas. Honestly even if all the thieves in the world would comically agree to this… What we will actually see from ANet will be something completely arbitrary. So yeah wish and nerf away!
I was actually agreeing. I don’t care what happens either at this point.
The game isn’t balanced around 1v1’s. In group play, shadow refuge has very obvious counterplay mechanics involving targeted aoe’s and knockbacks. And in group play, if the thief is just going to sit in the full refuge stealth duration, he’s contributing nothing to his team for upwards of 15 seconds.
Second Child
I’m actually kind of curious to see what whiners come up with next…the professional balance forum doesn’t have the usual volume of thief whines since the update patch and I’m getting kinda bored.
The hojoiners/WvW’ers have moved on to complain about the “OP” Ranger changes.
NO. It has a god kitten ring around it telegraphing where you are if people can’t grasp the use of knock back or AOE in this area then tough titty.
Sorry op shadow refuge is fine.
1. Its one of the ways a thief can bring support.
2. Players have several seconds to counter the sr with a knock back.
3. Players can nukes Shadowrefuge area and down thief if thief leaves area he will be revealed.
4 Game is not balanced around 1v1.
Also thief current combat ability isn’t that great atm.
Shikamaru X Thief, Warrior, Mesmer, Engi(FT leader)
Highest ranked reached 28 soloq
Isle of Janthir
Highest ranked reached 28 soloq
Isle of Janthir
Systematically eliminatiing all the useful options for thief one by one?
I guess my picture didn’t illustrate how much of a kitten I give about yet another one of this threads and ideas. Honestly even if all the thieves in the world would comically agree to this… What we will actually see from ANet will be something completely arbitrary. So yeah wish and nerf away!
Update the wish list!
Also there are far better methods to reset than depending on SR which has multiple counters already.
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
HAHA SR is overpowered?? All you need is any kind of point blank CC (and if your some what good, even targetted cc) or a mediocre amount of AOE which is easy to come by in this game. The thief migth be in stealth (if you did not manage to cc him out of it, wasting his biggest cooldown) but hell be dead or too low to engage. With continuously resetting you mean pressured to retreat and let you fullcap a node?
It was totally clear something would be the next to moan about. So now after the most recent nerfs we already have people moaning about stealth in general (again / as always, really), Feline Grace, now Shadow Refuge… whats next – Trickery line too powerful, eh?
I´m sick of it.
Weapon 5 skills to stronk, no cd, request all cost 10 initiative.
Stealth inflicts burning on use…. on the thief.
Stealth inflicts burning on use…. on the thief.
We’ll make it the new 5 minor trait in every single line, and it’ll be called “Git Gud”. Upon gaining stealth you apply 10 seconds of burning to all allies in a 1500 radius with damage based off the highest condition damage of all allies affected.
Even better, make it so all fire based skills or being hit with burning applies revealed to thieves, because of the extra light source and all. You want to stealth? Combustive shot would like to have a word with you. Shadow refuge? Lol, ring of fire.
9.5/10 to be a troll thread.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread
The Dhuumfire thread
What the OP is really complaining about is not Shadow Refuge. We all know that Shadow Refuge is garbage — it’s a dead skill in our skill bar that doesn’t really live up to its name of providing a refuge.
What the OP is really complaining about is Shadow Rejuvenation that allows the Thief to reset any fight because the Thief is at full health when they get out of stealth.
Also the OP is complaining about Shadow Embrace that removes conditions from the Thief that they get out of stealth fresh and full health.
In addition, the OP is also complaining about Hide in Shadows because not only that this skill gives stealth, it also heals, regen and cleanse — that allows the Thief to reset the fight.
Then there’s Shadowstepping. Creating a great distance allows the Thief to reset the fight.
So all in all, the OP wants every skills that allows the Thief to reset a fight be neutered.
Fair enough. I hate fighting against a Thief who can reset a fight either.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
(edited by Sir Vincent III.1286)
When I see a thief drop shadow refuge in a duel it is usually game over for that poor lad. If I play a profession with some knockback I’ll use it. Have some heavy burst, I’ll do it. The thief usually go down if he use SR below 50% hp.
There are quite a few ways to counter SR, which any good tPvP player will know. I do see this skill being strong in WvW where shadow arts are meta.
Melder – Thief
So a thief is not allowed to reset fights anymore just because of stealth? once again, a thief running away to actively leave combat – that is a thief you won against. When he leaves combat, so do you. Your cooldowns recharge as well as his. Your health is full as well as his. i have to accept it as well – as a S/D thief you have the same problem when facing D/x thieves., especially those with 30 pts in Shadow Arts.
Also, before someone complains about shadow´s rejuvenation, please complain about the absurd amount of self sustain on regen ranger, D/D ele or any warior build using Healing Signet as well. They all heal more then a thief does in stealth, and being stealthed means doing no damage, while all others can attack while healing up incredibly fast.
What the OP is really complaining about is not Shadow Refuge. We all know that Shadow Refuge is garbage — it’s a dead skill in our skill bar that doesn’t really live up to its name of providing a refuge.
What the OP is really complaining about is Shadow Rejuvenation that allows the Thief to reset any fight because the Thief is at full health when they get out of stealth.
Also the OP is complaining about Shadow Embrace that removes conditions from the Thief that they get out of stealth fresh and full health.
In addition, the OP is also complaining about Hide in Shadows because not only that this skill gives stealth, it also heals, regen and cleanse — that allows the Thief to reset the fight.
Then there’s Shadowstepping. Creating a great distance allows the Thief to reset the fight.
So all in all, the OP wants every skills that allows the Thief to reset a fight be neutered.
Fair enough. I hate fighting against a Thief who can reset a fight either.
Then you can redesign thief the disengage is part of the class role, the initiative system added with the defense type of thief also support it.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread
The Dhuumfire thread
how dare a thief to have team utility? we must eliminate it!
seriously though, refuge is big red bull eye begging for aoe….
All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>
[Teef] guild :>
sr is totally fine in my opinion, the annoying thing is, when u down someone in shadow refugee, but cant kill him anymore cause 15 s stealth, + he gets up
thats the only thing that bothers me w sr
Are you enjoying the responses to my post Zero Day.2594?
Priceless aren’t they?
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Why don’t nerf thief threads ever have any form of compensation?
They are only good at one game mode and they aren’t even the best at it, unless of course the thief is a beast. You can’t just straight nerf a profession and expect Anet to think up compensation for you. Thieves can’t do it because just about every suggestion turns out to be OP by the community’s standards.
Liaison for [Teef]
“Please stop complaining about stuff you don’t even know about.” ~Nocta
“Please stop complaining about stuff you don’t even know about.” ~Nocta
Why don’t nerf thief threads ever have any form of compensation?
Actually if you read carefully this one does. Hence this QQ thread is a special snowflake.
See he’s willing to exchange reverting unneeded changes/nerfs for a shadow refugee nerf. The catch here is, those unneeded changes/nerfs were unneeded – so they should just be reverted back anyways. :| The OP is clever. In fact I’m proud of him! It shows that there might still be hope in the evolution of QQs.
Update the wish list!
Doing that now! It was late yesterday.
Why don’t nerf thief threads ever have any form of compensation?
Actually if you read carefully this one does. Hence this QQ thread is a special snowflake.
See he’s willing to exchange reverting unneeded changes/nerfs for a shadow refugee nerf. The catch here is, those unneeded changes/nerfs were unneeded – so they should just be reverted back anyways. :| The OP is clever. In fact I’m proud of him! It shows that there might still be hope in the evolution of QQs.
That is not compensation.
Liaison for [Teef]
“Please stop complaining about stuff you don’t even know about.” ~Nocta
“Please stop complaining about stuff you don’t even know about.” ~Nocta
Why don’t nerf thief threads ever have any form of compensation?
Actually if you read carefully this one does. Hence this QQ thread is a special snowflake.
See he’s willing to exchange reverting unneeded changes/nerfs for a shadow refugee nerf. The catch here is, those unneeded changes/nerfs were unneeded – so they should just be reverted back anyways. :| The OP is clever. In fact I’m proud of him! It shows that there might still be hope in the evolution of QQs.That is not compensation.
It’s a very clever attempt at it, something that’s rarely seen in other QQ’s/PLOX-NERF-X.
Yes, lets pointlessly nerf more thief related abilities so that more and more people hate the game and quit! Sweet idea! /facepalm
[Zeus] Guild ~ Desolation. Not some silly muffin thing, stop stalking me Dhiania!
Sometimes when running from large groups in WvW, I cast my shadow’s refuge in the middle of nowhere because it’s an instant AoE and CC magnet. Yeah, no one knows how to counter it. Definitely OP. Plz nurf.
If something needs a nerf , it’s Shadow Rejunevation , Shadow refuge is fine and totally balanced . A thief without Shadow Rej. will just get 2/3k-ish heal via SR . on a 60sec cd it’s not a big deal .
That 2/3k is like 20-30% of our max health sometimes, its too much! Better lower it to something approachable such kitten -10% so people can counter it in time to finish making their sandwich.
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
I’m certainly adventuring in dangerous zone here… but what about a shadow refuge nerf?I mean everybody cry over thief excess stealth. But I don’t think their strenght is there…
The real pain is Thief continuous reset ability. And what allow it? -> shadow refuge…
I cant count the number of time I dueled Thief and they shadow refuge 5 to 10 times in a duel… And they finally get a lucky strike and win the duel… If the thief is playing badly he should be punished by not having a panic button ready to save his kitten every 45 sec.
You would say it would be the end of thief right? No, I would gladly revert lots of unneeded change for this. Thief should go in the line with all those zerker profession and not stay low risk high reward profession. You may say it is high risk high reward… but except maybe warrior (not so sure on after patch warrior), thief is the easiest zerker profession.
If you play badly you will loose badly, like all other profession…
I’m just trying to get the thief community opinion on this as I know alot of thief that dislike relying on this skill to be sucessful.
Finally, I don’t want to frustrate anybody about this, I’m just seeking the general thief opinion about that.
NOTE: WHEN I SAY ZERKER I WANT TO SAY VALK/ZERKER FOCUS WITH LITTLE TO NO TOUGHNESS!
NOTE: I APOLOGIZE FOR THE GRAMMAR/ORTHOGRAPHY AS IT’S NOT MY PRIMARY LANGUAGE
so you want to nerf a skill because you don’t know how to counter it?
I’m certainly adventuring in dangerous zone here… but what about a shadow refuge nerf?I mean everybody cry over thief excess stealth. But I don’t think their strenght is there…
The real pain is Thief continuous reset ability. And what allow it? -> shadow refuge…
I cant count the number of time I dueled Thief and they shadow refuge 5 to 10 times in a duel… And they finally get a lucky strike and win the duel… If the thief is playing badly he should be punished by not having a panic button ready to save his kitten every 45 sec.
You would say it would be the end of thief right? No, I would gladly revert lots of unneeded change for this. Thief should go in the line with all those zerker profession and not stay low risk high reward profession. You may say it is high risk high reward… but except maybe warrior (not so sure on after patch warrior), thief is the easiest zerker profession.
If you play badly you will loose badly, like all other profession…
I’m just trying to get the thief community opinion on this as I know alot of thief that dislike relying on this skill to be sucessful.
Finally, I don’t want to frustrate anybody about this, I’m just seeking the general thief opinion about that.
NOTE: WHEN I SAY ZERKER I WANT TO SAY VALK/ZERKER FOCUS WITH LITTLE TO NO TOUGHNESS!
NOTE: I APOLOGIZE FOR THE GRAMMAR/ORTHOGRAPHY AS IT’S NOT MY PRIMARY LANGUAGE
Its a 60 second cooldown. So you have 45 – 50 seconds to kill someone, if you don’t they deserve a reset, and most classes have a good reset mechanic and can escape a 1v1. If they cant, I bet they’re better at team fighting. also, its never a guaranteed reset, you can get knocked out of it and damaged while in the refuge. It is rather powerful, and not out of line to bring it up a OP, but with reveal being a lot more abundant I dont think SR needs a change
keep 1of your kitten aoe then throw in SR as soon as he use it.
or push pull fear
Shadow Refuge going to be Shadow Coffin.
Funny how this forum turns to a QQ rehab in any instant.
Seriously, SR sucks and will continue to be. And yet here you are complaining about it and Thieves’ innate ability to reset fights.
There are lots of options to go for. A Thief casting SR is a dead Thief
You have two options vs Thieves: learn to play against them or go quit. You cant keep calling for nerfs just because of your incompetent performance, adjust yourself for the community because the community won’t adjust for you.
“Even thieves have principles to follow.”
-Chinese Proverb.
-Chinese Proverb.
Funny how this forum turns to a QQ rehab in any instant.
Seriously, SR sucks and will continue to be. And yet here you are complaining about it and Thieves’ innate ability to reset fights.
There are lots of options to go for. A Thief casting SR is a dead Thief
You have two options vs Thieves: learn to play against them or go quit. You cant keep calling for nerfs just because of your incompetent performance, adjust yourself for the community because the community won’t adjust for you.
Dat truth hurts
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
Lets say we nerf stealth to the ground and give everyone what they want. The only way to counter buff the nerf is to buff dodges and toughness up by ALOT. Imagine a thief that u cant hit and when u do he chuckles cuz he is ticklish there. The QQ would raise through the roof. A SR nerf nah. I see SR as a bullseye for damage dumping. They literally cant leave the area until the refuge wears off or else death. SO save your fear your knockback your heavy aoe damage and bait out the refuge. The thief class is all for baiting out all the other professions oh shyt buttons and capitalizing off it. So just beat the thief at his own game. Every1 tries to hurry and burst the thief down blowing everything on it and then left with nothing to defend yourself. BRUH STOP IT! Thief is one of the most patient professions and the only way to beat patience is to be more patient.
I dont mean to be an kitten about it truely. But the thief that uses SR where I play at is at a disadvantage. IDK maybe my thief gets all the ppl that knows exactly how to deal with shadow refuge because at this point I hate SR. And my thief is my main if that says anything. I really dont want to say this but just L2P against this skills you will see its much more counter able than it seems. ill give you a tip. Almost every thief at this point saves a dodge for the refuge and stays away from the middle. Happy birthday.
The class master. I enjoy all of the professions.