Guild Wars 2

Why would you nerf the one reliable source of condition removal ??

it does not proc twice in the 4s and you stopped it being able to remove all conditions??

Revert it please or I may consider being done since with this game Lock on, Cloaked in shadows, Feline grace and now SE.

There was no need to change this. Just silly.

This Change was really the biggest Lol change ever.

It should still remove a condition upon entering stealth. Was this announced in the patch notes? If not it might be a bug. As for limiting it to damaging conditions, it’s also a buff in some cases, such as removing those 10 bleeds instead of the 2 vulnerability.

Just add immobilize back to the list and I will be happy

That is really the only one I care about that it does not remove anymore

I think that was the main one that was removed in order to add counter play. Heartseeker is D/P’s most telegraphed skill, and telegraphed skills create windows for players to land important skills of their own, such as a crowd control effect or a high hitting telegraphed skill. Immobilize falls under the category of crowd control, along with the obvious disabling effects. If, 90% of the time, Heartseeker is performed in Black Powder, it will instantly remove immobilize, removing that counter play. Other movement impairing effects could also be viewed in this light, but of course with less importance.

The problem is that it also removes this element of counter play against immobilize for the thief. For example, a thief can no longer place Black Powder in anticipation of an immobilize, and wait for it before using Heartseeker in the same way S/D would create Infiltrator’s Return and wait. Maybe the devs thought it was more important that immobilize be landed on a D/P thief because they have the ability to stack stealth while in stealth, and to try to compensate for the anticipated Shadow’s Rejuvenation builds.

It’s huge nerf and the one I don’t like the most. If u want to remove 10 stack of bleeds before chance were than it was first to get removed. Because it was last applied. Same with an immob or cripple/chill…

Now it’s useless… We need sa and acrobatics to get decent condi removal and it’s still not as good as old shadows embrace…

I don’t anticipate playing this game much longer…

Also just realized blind does not get removed either.

Look Arenanet, you had no reason to make shadow’s embrace as crap as it is now. Right now, all it takes is an immobilize or a blind and we have no way to remove apart from shadowstep if we run P/D or D/D.

Unless we use withdraw and the new trait, but I like Hide in Shadows.

Please revert this

Worst nerf ever! Please revert this! Most of the builds use this trait as the only condi removal, we are almost dead without being able to remove cripple or immo!

IN this form I would like it, if it was baseline in the traits. And it should remove one condition every 3 seconds… which will trigger first time whenever you go INTO stealth. Without any ICD.
You go invis remove condi… if you are 3s invis remove the second, by 6s the third.
If you gain 1s invis you should remove one condi, if you are visible then and reenter stealth you should remove a condi…

I totally agree. I want to be able to remove Fear whenever Teq or Jormag uses their breath attacks with Blinding Powder. :/

Really, it seems like an unnecessary nerf.

BFMV.3198:

Also just realized blind does not get removed either.

Look Arenanet, you had no reason to make shadow’s embrace as crap as it is now. Right now, all it takes is an immobilize or a blind and we have no way to remove apart from shadowstep if we run P/D or D/D.

Unless we use withdraw and the new trait, but I like Hide in Shadows.

Please revert this

No way to remove a blind? Just intentionally hit someone so the blind goes away? Rofl.

While this seems hyperbolic, nerfing SE is disastrous for thieves. The current state of pvp is seeing a lot of condi bombing. Thieves have to go to extraordinary lengths to properly deal with periodic diverse condi bombs. Nerfing one of the staple condi removal options for thieves just disadvantages us.

Thief is playing almost exclusively as a ganking class at the moment. Skirmishing is more risky than ever, and though we bring more damage to the table we do not bring so much that we can necessarily and reliably make up for our glassiness.

We got changes that favor risk -> reward, but now it feels like we are risking much more for very little additional reward.

edit:a word

Anet probably thought to include more condition removal in other lines and then made SE less powerful in order to not make it unbalanced. What this did, however, was make it so that Shadow Arts and some other condi removal tactic (like using traps or the evade removes condi trait, are now more obligatory.

Returning SE to removing conditions upon stealth and would go a long way. I’m open to keeping movement condition removal and mitigation in other lines (evades remove crippled for example). It’s annoying when you have to spend time getting into stealth, then wait a few seconds for the bleed/burn stack to disappear, then attack and hope the delay in removing the DoT condition didn’t disadvantage you. That’s a lot of time to remove one condition that is easily reapplied a short time later.

Unlike a passive removal a stealth based removal relies on timing. This extra requirement makes removing a condition instantly much more justifiable.

What the heck was the change? I couldn’t find it in the update notes.

Yamsandjams.3267:

What the heck was the change? I couldn’t find it in the update notes.

SE only removes damaging conditions, not all conditions like it used to

AegisRunestone.8672:

I totally agree. I want to be able to remove Fear whenever Teq or Jormag uses their breath attacks with Blinding Powder. :/

Really, it seems like an unnecessary nerf.

I’m in with that, I now get feared through all AOE and just die – there’s nothing I can do about it.

Well, I wasn’t sure if I should pick SA or not, always had 2pts in there for the condi removal so when I saw the SE change, I decided not to bother with SA anymore.

I want my immobilize and fear removal back >.>

RIP Hide in shadows

Huuhhh apart from the cleansing bug (hopefully it is) the new SE seems justified. Take a look at Acro and SA one is anti movement/weakening conditions while the other helps more with condition damage similar to HiS and Withdraw. For some it is a nerf but it depends on who you fight, just fix the cleansing bug and we will see how this goes. It’s very risky though also Trickster seems a bit lacking in PvP a buff would be appreciated.

I’ve looked on guardian and warrior as example comparisons. All of their condition removal skills are the same post-patch. They remove ALL conditions regardless of type. Rather than making all condition removal situation specific and forcing people to deal with movement conditions differently they only applied this change to thieves (unannounced I might note).

Not all classes should play the same. That said, making thief the only class that has to deal with the bifurcation of movement and damage condition removal is something worth mentioning in the patch notes.

Further, condition removal, regardless of whether bifurcation is here to stay, should apply immediately upon stealth and not after multiple seconds. That is probably a bug and should be the focus of our complaints. (As mentioned previously, removing just damaging conditions might help us a bit by prioritizing them. The only issue is making sure the removal timing is functioning as intended).

Sagat.3285:

Huuhhh apart from the cleansing bug (hopefully it is) the new SE seems justified. Take a look at Acro and SA one is anti movement/weakening conditions while the other helps more with condition damage similar to HiS and Withdraw. For some it is a nerf but it depends on who you fight, just fix the cleansing bug and we will see how this goes. It’s very risky though also Trickster seems a bit lacking in PvP a buff would be appreciated.

Ok, then look at the tricks: withdraw, roll for inititive, daggerstorm, scorpionwire, did I miss something? Withdraw removes 3 preset conditions; all heals pells, except signet of malice do. But otherwise you have to stealth and then use a trick. Which can be quite difficult in combat. And you don’t really want to use any of these tricks while in shadow refuge, so the argument that now trickster and SA can be used is quite wonky as it might look good on paper but in “reality” it’s differently. Not saying thieves are the only ones who have got troubles to get the conditions off but SA has been quite perfect before the patch.

I use Shadow’s embrace + withdraw it seems more viable now

+1 revert the change as it was previously.

I do not have an issue with this change, and in fact I agree with it and understand the need for it.

Stealth needs to have more counterplay, and removing the ability to remove immob/chill/cripple, simply by being in stealth, is a good move in my opinion. And I main a stealth based thief, so I know how much this affects us.

Stealth is a very strong defensive and offensive tool, without the added bonus of healing, ini regen and dot removal. So I completely agree with this change. I have always had an issue with the fact that all of our tools are in our stealth. Now we have to build out of stealth to counter certain things. This in my opinion is a good thing and means more skill is needed, both in play and in creating more versatile builds.

Jana.6831:

Sagat.3285:

Huuhhh apart from the cleansing bug (hopefully it is) the new SE seems justified. Take a look at Acro and SA one is anti movement/weakening conditions while the other helps more with condition damage similar to HiS and Withdraw. For some it is a nerf but it depends on who you fight, just fix the cleansing bug and we will see how this goes. It’s very risky though also Trickster seems a bit lacking in PvP a buff would be appreciated.

Ok, then look at the tricks: withdraw, roll for inititive, daggerstorm, scorpionwire, did I miss something? Withdraw removes 3 preset conditions; all heals pells, except signet of malice do. But otherwise you have to stealth and then use a trick. Which can be quite difficult in combat. And you don’t really want to use any of these tricks while in shadow refuge, so the argument that now trickster and SA can be used is quite wonky as it might look good on paper but in “reality” it’s differently. Not saying thieves are the only ones who have got troubles to get the conditions off but SA has been quite perfect before the patch.

Using Withdraw with SA seems to work fine so HiS and Acro or s/x should be fine. I can’t help but feel Trickster is not doing enough it’s not supposed to be mixed with SA but rather Acro and s/x builds but it’s not there yet. We do have Agility Signet as well. They should improve tricks or trickster and fix SE cleansing bug. Caltrops and Haste(there is also a trait for it) are tricks as well but they just need to sync better.

I agree that this nerf was in a bad taste. I don’t even pvp as much but even in PvE this hurts a bit and I don’t see why this had to be nerfed. To be honest from reading the patch notes all I am seeing is a lot of PvE nerfs to those who play traditional back stabbing rogues. Even cloak and dagger took a nerf in PvE which was a bit unjust by 17% but was raised in PvP by 25%.

Sagat.3285:

Using Withdraw with SA seems to work fine so HiS and Acro or s/x should be fine. I can’t help but feel Trickster is not doing enough it’s not supposed to be mixed with SA but rather Acro and s/x builds but it’s not there yet. We do have Agility Signet as well. They should improve tricks or trickster and fix SE cleansing bug. Caltrops and Haste(there is also a trait for it) are tricks as well but they just need to sync better.

My point was that using it (withdraw) with SR is nothing I would want to do, also not daggerstorm in every case and scorpionwire and roll for initiative as all would destroy me being in SR.

Driften.8716:

I agree that this nerf was in a bad taste. I don’t even pvp as much but even in PvE this hurts a bit and I don’t see why this had to be nerfed. To be honest from reading the patch notes all I am seeing is a lot of PvE nerfs to those who play traditional back stabbing rogues. Even cloak and dagger took a nerf in PvE which was a bit unjust by 17% but was raised in PvP by 25%.

I do not see how this can impact PvE that much. Mobs stop attacking you while in stealth, so even if you are immobilized, you are not in any danger of being attached like you are in PvP. Maybe there will be occasions where you will be in an AoE pulse field while immob’d, but these situations are not common, and to be honest, PvE needs to be more challenging in places anyway.

Personally, from my perspective, who’s someone who players a good amount of both PvE and PvP (mostly WvW), this change impacts us much more in PvP situations. I am fine with this change in PvP, and see it as a complete non-issue in PvE.

Regarding C&D, this was done to normalize the damage. They obviously felt the damage output of C&D was too much, so brought both game modes in line with each other and reduced the overall damage. To be honest, for a skill that applies vuln and stealths you, I think this is an acceptable change. Especially now we have a trait to boost our ferocity. My damage output since patch has seen a noticable increase, so I do not think this reduction to C&D is an issue.

SpiritSpeakerOfHoelbrak.3980:

I dont mean to start a flame war but i actually like this change, because now thiefs cant just be super kitteny and go invis and reset the fight like 10 times when things get bad. having it so that conditions dont immediately go away once they go invis means that a thief needs to actually work for the kill and is not stuck being just a gank/face roll class.
Making it so that immobilize does not disable you means that you need to be good and dodge skills. Everyone keeps on saying that a thiefs greatest tool is there mobility. THERE SHOULD BE COUNTER PLAY. END OF STORY.

All other classes have some counter play mechanic. But before the patch thiefs basically had none, they had way to much mobility and dmg for squishier classes to deal with.

Another thing, I see lots of people saying its not fair Mesmer cans stealth longer? I would agree in some sense BUT at the same time not. The reason i would not agree is that right now because of trait change, every class has roughly -200 armor compared to what they had before. Meaning light classes such as Mesmer need something to compensate for that. When a thief could 1 hit killed a mesmer using d/d (pre patch) thats a problem like you cant have a class that can kill 2 other classes in one hit, there needs to be a balance and right now what they have done is a step in the right direction.

I would like to seems more high skilled player playign s/d thief instead of relying on invisibility, and because of this i am very much looking forward to invisibility revealing skills other classes are going to get because then ill finally be able to see more s/d thiefs that take more skill then the scrub d/p thief i see time and time again.

Huh? The stealth was OUR counter-play mechanic for other classes. It just so happen to be all-encompassing in our condition removal and defense. If you go to nerf one, all the others suffer (which is exactly what just happened here). A mesmer, who’s entire class mechanic isn’t revolved around being sneaky or stealthy, can out-stealth a class who is and that poses a problem. Also, it annoys me when people associate d/p weapon set with thieves that don’t know how to play the class. I love d/p because of the utility it provides me. Player skill determines player skill, not the weapon set.

TheMurkMuffin.8213:

The stealth was OUR counter-play mechanic for other classes. It just so happen to be all-encompassing in our condition removal and defense. If you go to nerf one, all the others suffer (which is exactly what just happened here). A mesmer, who’s entire class mechanic isn’t revolved around being sneaky or stealthy, can out-stealth a class who is and that poses a problem. Also, it annoys me when people associate d/p weapon set with thieves that don’t know how to play the class. I love d/p because of the utility it provides me. Player skill determines player skill, not the weapon set.

Stealth still is a strong counter. Excluding Shadow Refuge, which can easily be countered by knockbacks, etc, stealth can be applied very easily by other means, and very frequently too. I have always felt (as a big stealth user myself) that stealth has been too strong. This change simply means that immob will be a good way to counter stealth, and a smart thief will build to counter it by other means, rather than relying so heavily on stealth.

We shouldn’t get all of our tricks from one mechanic. No other profession does this. Mesmers may focus a lot into illusions and shattering, but they still need to build outside of this to counter certain things. Illusions and shatters will not give you everything you need. A thief previously, with the exception of stun breaking, could counter pretty much everything with stealth. They could cleanse every condi, easily avoid damage, regain a lot of ini and health, and dish out a ton of damage from it. It was too strong for a single mechanic imo.

Now Anet is taking stealth down a peg or two, and those who cannot play without it are upset. Stealth should take skill to use effectively, and not be some easy to use emergency get out of jail free button. Shadow’s Embrace is still very useful, as it gets those dots off you while you recover in stealth, and I still run with it. But now I use other means to remove immob, and I am happy with that. I am happy that I now need to use other tools to survive, rather than only needing to pop stealth to cure all my ills.

Its funny, with the new patch I have now built into trickery, and have removed shadow refuge and blinding powder from my skill bar. I have replaced them with a changeable slot (often the precision sig) and roll for ini. It is a much more active playstyle, which I love, and I still have alot of access to stealth, due to the increased ini pool and ini regen from SA. Stealth is still very strong, it just has more counters to it than it did before. You just need to learn how to deal with those counters, and stop putting all your eggs in one basket.

I don’t even really use stealth anymore after patch…

SpiritSpeakerOfHoelbrak.3980:

TheMurkMuffin.8213:

SpiritSpeakerOfHoelbrak.3980:

I dont mean to start a flame war but i actually like this change, because now thiefs cant just be super kitteny and go invis and reset the fight like 10 times when things get bad. having it so that conditions dont immediately go away once they go invis means that a thief needs to actually work for the kill and is not stuck being just a gank/face roll class.
Making it so that immobilize does not disable you means that you need to be good and dodge skills. Everyone keeps on saying that a thiefs greatest tool is there mobility. THERE SHOULD BE COUNTER PLAY. END OF STORY.

All other classes have some counter play mechanic. But before the patch thiefs basically had none, they had way to much mobility and dmg for squishier classes to deal with.

Another thing, I see lots of people saying its not fair Mesmer cans stealth longer? I would agree in some sense BUT at the same time not. The reason i would not agree is that right now because of trait change, every class has roughly -200 armor compared to what they had before. Meaning light classes such as Mesmer need something to compensate for that. When a thief could 1 hit killed a mesmer using d/d (pre patch) thats a problem like you cant have a class that can kill 2 other classes in one hit, there needs to be a balance and right now what they have done is a step in the right direction.

I would like to seems more high skilled player playign s/d thief instead of relying on invisibility, and because of this i am very much looking forward to invisibility revealing skills other classes are going to get because then ill finally be able to see more s/d thiefs that take more skill then the scrub d/p thief i see time and time again.

Huh? The stealth was OUR counter-play mechanic for other classes. It just so happen to be all-encompassing in our condition removal and defense. If you go to nerf one, all the others suffer (which is exactly what just happened here). A mesmer, who’s entire class mechanic isn’t revolved around being sneaky or stealthy, can out-stealth a class who is and that poses a problem. Also, it annoys me when people associate d/p weapon set with thieves that don’t know how to play the class. I love d/p because of the utility it provides me. Player skill determines player skill, not the weapon set.

This is true but to say wep sets dont make certain things easier would be a lie. s/d is alot harder than d/p and i respect thieves that not just go stealth and reset the fight 600 times its annoying and uncalled for. plus there highest burst is when they are invis. imagine if kill shot warrior could go invis and still do its 15k dmg that would be op. But thief does it and naw man its balance. #doublestandardsareOP

this is a blatant lie. thief can not do 15k dmg … it’s more like 6-7k max in normal gameplay

SpiritSpeakerOfHoelbrak.3980:

This is true but to say wep sets dont make certain things easier would be a lie. s/d is alot harder than d/p and i respect thieves that not just go stealth and reset the fight 600 times its annoying and uncalled for. plus there highest burst is when they are invis. imagine if kill shot warrior could go invis and still do its 15k dmg that would be op. But thief does it and naw man its balance. #doublestandardsareOP

Have you ever considered that maybe if backstab was accessible outside of stealth, then maybe thieves would stealth less? Or maybe if warrior worked like thief, maybe the warrior in your example only has killshot when he is stealthed?

swinsk.6410:

It’s huge nerf and the one I don’t like the most. If u want to remove 10 stack of bleeds before chance were than it was first to get removed. Because it was last applied. Same with an immob or cripple/chill…

Now it’s useless… We need sa and acrobatics to get decent condi removal and it’s still not as good as old shadows embrace…

I don’t anticipate playing this game much longer…

I love these empty threats we have been getting from people since the patch. You need to wait and see the state of the class after a couple of weeks before you start writing the class off. Chances are it will be fixed (if not directly then indirectly).

Jana.6831:

AegisRunestone.8672:

I totally agree. I want to be able to remove Fear whenever Teq or Jormag uses their breath attacks with Blinding Powder. :/

Really, it seems like an unnecessary nerf.

I’m in with that, I now get feared through all AOE and just die – there’s nothing I can do about it.

Especially if you’re fighting Teq. You’ll be feared into the poison fields and have no way of surviving it. :/

AegisRunestone.8672:

Jana.6831:

AegisRunestone.8672:

I totally agree. I want to be able to remove Fear whenever Teq or Jormag uses their breath attacks with Blinding Powder. :/

Really, it seems like an unnecessary nerf.

I’m in with that, I now get feared through all AOE and just die – there’s nothing I can do about it.

Especially if you’re fighting Teq. You’ll be feared into the poison fields and have no way of surviving it. :/

Unless you use Roll For Initiative, Signet of Agility, Infiltrator’s Signet, Shadowstep, Haste and/or the Hard to Catch trait. Apart from those there is nothing you can do.

Rin.1046:

AegisRunestone.8672:

Jana.6831:

AegisRunestone.8672:

I totally agree. I want to be able to remove Fear whenever Teq or Jormag uses their breath attacks with Blinding Powder. :/

Really, it seems like an unnecessary nerf.

I’m in with that, I now get feared through all AOE and just die – there’s nothing I can do about it.

Especially if you’re fighting Teq. You’ll be feared into the poison fields and have no way of surviving it. :/

Unless you use Roll For Initiative, Signet of Agility, Infiltrator’s Signet, Shadowstep, Haste and/or the Hard to Catch trait. Apart from those there is nothing you can do.

No, doesn’t work against teq fear. It’s still a condition that would still be on me – and I really couldn’t use any skill during that time (don’t ask me why my panic button (blinding powder) always works).

make it remove a condi when entering stealth and then another every 3 sec as it was before and i’m more than happy with it.

I dont know if any of you mentioned it but weakness is another condition that is devastating for thieves especially if they are power spec. Glancing blows can seriously screw up your burst AND sustained damage. Prepatch i would always clear weakness before doing any dps but now if your opponent stacks some weakness duration on you, you will just hit like wet noodle for the next several seconds unless you clear it with something other than shadow’s embrace. It is most of the time unwise to burst or keep trading blows when you have weakness because you will just get out sustained and will probably end up using up most of your initiative to do no damage.

People who think they’re smart are already starting to play the ‘if you need more condi removal use the new tricks’ card. Take away good reliable condi cleansing for high recharge mediocre cleansing and be perplexed at the uproar. This will be the clueless casual’s new mantra, just watch.

I knew this would happen. Way back when I said we should be worried about SA when they take another balance swing at it with the nerf bat.

Between SA, Acro, & the ricochet purity of pistols high concept bullkitten, I’ve given up and re-mained Necro.

Anet employees need to seriously stop playing their main Warriors and make an “all Thief week” at the office before they let anyone play whack-a-mole and try to call it Thief balancing.

So they force all Thieves to use Stealth and Shadows Embrace for our only good condi removal or go basically without any and then nerf it? ;o

this is wvw with buffs. and still only 10k? where is your 15k?
you know you don’t use signet of malice nor signet of blood in pvp / wvw?
you know you can just block, blind or port away and that thief from first video is dead (he has used all his utilities)?

srsly?

Don’t you just love when people use wvw 1v1 scenarios to support their claims? Even though wvw is for casual pvp and is balanced around large scale fights. I have to agree with spirit though on the dmg part. I thought anets vision was a mobile class that is quick on their feet and yet they nerf evades and stealth defensive traits while buffing burst to the point they turn thief to a one trick pony or a kamikazi that goes in 1 shots someone then dies with no hope of escaping.

Worst change really, considering how much they buffed condis. But then again, after 2+ years of nerfing it was to be expected. WTB RPG with decent pvp where devs don’t hate on one particular class so much.

SpiritSpeakerOfHoelbrak.3980:

FlawlezZ.3178:

this is wvw with buffs. and still only 10k? where is your 15k?
you know you don’t use signet of malice nor signet of blood in pvp / wvw?
you know you can just block, blind or port away and that thief from first video is dead (he has used all his utilities)?

srsly?

My point is. when you have a class that can hit insane dmg when you cant even see them. that is broken. idk about you but im not gonna spam dodges just cause i think a thief maybe behind me. Like thief before (and i would argue still now) is just a gank class. they can unload so much dmg on you before you even see them just by using SR and talking up to you without you noticing. If backstab had a cast time and in mid cast the thief would come out of invis then fine. but no so the least they can do is making it so you can lock down that bs and actually fight. Thief has way to many escaps and ways to invis for people to be crying that going invis does not remove every condition.

what? you see them after the first hit. they are revealed for 4 seconds. when they place SR you know where they are for 4 seconds. you can see infiltrator arrow. you can see smoke field. you can pop signet, endure pain, obsidian flesh, use mesmer f4 to get no damage at all and thief can’t do anything against it

Lame change imo.

I litterly noticed this seconds after login when they patch went live, the same thing can be said about shadows rejuvenation, before the trait merge it would restore initiative on the first strike and then again after 4 seconds, as it now, we get 1 after 3 seconds and lose the first one on our first stealth

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/BUG-Shadows-Rejuvenation/first#post5199634

yeah this SE nerf was unnecessary.

now we are even more squishy and they nerf that SE = death sentence for us

Maybe they can just make SE give you invulnerability and immunity to conditions while in stealth? Stealth seems so underpowered. All you can do is hit hard from it, heal in it, gain ini faster in it, make yourself harder to hit in most situations, and reset most fights using it. If only it could have more advantages. If only stealth was the thief’s only mechanic they needed to use. Then we wouldn’t have to worry about learning any other mechanic or learn to use other non-steal skills! /s

Seriously, this is a good change. And in my opinion a necessary one. Not all nerfs are bad nerfs. Some of them are necessary and good for the game. Just as the engi’s Lock On trait is also a good addition. Cleaving and AoE’ing areas, in the hopes of hitting a stealthed enemy, is not good enough imo. Yes, some professions can knock or fear you out of SA, but that is the price you pay for having a skill that can give you 20 odd seconds of stealth. There needs to be drawbacks for such a powerful skill. And the same goes for stealth in general. There needs to be more solid ways of countering stealth, and I am really happy (as a stealth user) to see Anet adding more counter options and adjusting the potency of stealth for the thief.

The meta is changing, this is something you cannot avoid. With so many changes to skills and traits, builds people got confortable with are very likely to need adjustment. For me, I now take something else on my skill bar to deal with immob. This is not a big deal, and I can still make good use of stealth, both offensively and defensively. This change is not as crippling as many are making out.

Learn to adapt. And if Anet finds hundreds of thieves are dropping like flies, because of this change, I am sure they will fix it. But I doubt very much that will happen, because those who enjoy the profession as a whole, and not just the stealth mechanic, will likely be happy to adapt and will find ways to cope with this change.