Guild Wars 2

So I was wondering if the devs ( or the general population ) thinks that there might be something wrong with thieves being almost forced to use SB to be efficient ?

I mean, let’s look at it this way.

The way initiative works, you can use it all on offence, all on defence or mobility… Whatever your heart desires, you decide what it’s used for. This means most, if not all thieves opt for a high damaging set (offensive set )… And SB ( For mobility ).

I have yet to see any other combinations and even if I did, they’d be honestly purposely kittening themselves doing so.

My opinion means probably next to nothing to most of you guys ( not that anyone’s opinion is ever taken seriously tbh ) but I do think this really limits the combinations thieves can viably use.

Long Story Short.

Is the SB, or any of the other sets, going to get changed at some point in order to make any/all weapon combination a little more interesting/viable ?
We already have a tiny pool of weapon sets to begin with, absolutely needing SB makes this even smaller.

Discuss ?

The only thing they will change (because their history suggests it) is damage, durations and little tweaks for various things. There will be nothing major, unfortunately.

I’d like to see lower initiative costs for some skills like Death Blossom and have things nerfed that make it overpowered if traited correctly. Like traits that combo’d together give almost never ending initiative for ultimate unicorn-noob spam of skills that shouldn’t be spammed. Roll for Initiative is a big culprit in spammable Death Blossom. I’d like to see Roll for Initiative actually be… a ROLL where it’s a random chance for initiative restored. Minimum being 1 and maximum being all. Like dice. In exchange, make Roll for Initiative also restore 50% Endurance. Fair.

Fixing P/P would at least give us another option for ranged. I think SB will always be popular simply because it’s a ranged aoe kit, and that role is just too good to give up. Maybe if they made Death Blossom stronger it would at least become an option.

Basically, if they make P/P not garbage and buff Deathblossom I can see P/P + D/D being a alternative setup to D/D + SB or S/P +SB

I wouldn’t talk about this too much. Chances are instead of improving other ranged sets they will just nerf shortbow to be as bad as the rest of them :P

It’s hard not to take a short bow on a Thief. Unlike other melee classes, which can be severely limited by cooldowns, you don’t get a substantial advantage from switching to a different set to see a fresh set of cooldowns due to the initiative system. That makes having a ranged weapon very high value, and the pistol primary sets are rather poor as ranged sets (P/D is strong but very dependent on Cloak and Dagger for effective damage).

So yeah, short bow is ubiquitous, but it should be given the state of thief weapon sets. When they make a balance pass that results in P/P or P/D being brought up to par I’m sure we’ll see a lot more variety in that spot.

I run P/P and D/D and love it. The SB is great for AOE but honestly, the only time I really miss it is in the keep map. It just feels wrong to use a SB.

I use dual pistol in one build but it’s only best used as a support set with certain sigils at the moment. Can be useful, still. Needs to be looked at though, as it is clearly at the disadvantage as a ranged set.

I think a better solution to changing how SB works is to give thieves an alternative to it that forces a choice. As you said, the reason why most thieves use the SB is because it’s just that good. But if there was an alternative that made thieves stop and think about which they really wanted to use for their build, then that choice could lead to a better balanced class.

The 1200 range sniper rifle would be a good start, without having to take anything away from the existing weapon set that thieves have.

I don’t want to suggest specific abilities for such a weapon, since I’m not a game designer by trade. But I’m fairly certain Anet could come up with something decent.

It’s not so much that Short-Bow is so good, it’s the fact that a ranged weapon is practically a requirement in all of GW2’s content and that Pistol/Pistol is a little underwhelming.

We simply don’t have enough options, that’s why 90% chose Short-Bow.

I disagree…

P/D and D/P are my 2 weapon sets….which is built around stealth and mobility.

Dancing Dagger is actually really good AOE, throw in Caltrops… targets melt.

My normal tactic is to Body Shot, followed by CnD, weapon swap to Backstab… Headshot to stop their heals, if needed. I can then restealth by Black Powder
+ HeartSeeker, when int allows.

I use the duals for movement… if I am in close and see a big shot coming…Shadow Strike…. if I am out shooting… Shadow Shot…

These two weapon sets allow me to adapt to pretty much any situation…which is key for my playstyle

To the OP:I don’t use short bow at all.I use D/D and P/D.I suspect that at any point Cluster bomb might be nerfed a little,but this will not make other setups more viable,unless they buff that setups alone.

SB in the best ranged in WvW, as it is the only weapon that is able to hit anything on the walls, well… only CB and poison does

Keep your hands off my shortbow.

<3 SB working on making Rainbows!!!!

rangers are in the same boat, fyi.

it’s shortbow then…well whatever. everything else falls flat compared to the shortbow for rangers.

only warriors and mesmers have multiple viable weapon sets regardless of trait or gear loadout.

@fractal, im assuming you dont really use P/D/s auto or sneak attack much? and why body shot? seems like such a waste for what it offers. aesthetically i loved the idea of using D/P+P/D. But i find P/D focus on bleeds to make that difficult for me.

@Wolfe

Body Shot and CnD both cause stacking vulnerability, which causes you BS to hit harder.

Bleed is awesome when you need to kite or stay ranged. Caltrops + stealth pistol shot + auto attack = 15+ bleed stacks

P/D and D/P is about controlling your positioning and keeping the enemy guessing…

I only use Shortbow in dungeons because anywhere else risking the aggro from the bounce of the “1” attack isn’t worthwhile. The Shortbows damage is just so weak compared to other sets of weapons. I use dual daggers and dual pistols but with a minor trick. I keep three abilities that cloak me and use the trait ability that cloaks me when I Steal. So for each weapon set I just continuously cloak and either backstab or do the critical shot with the pistols. Both of these are initiative free so once I run out of cloaks I start spamming the “3” attack for whichever weapon set I’m using. I feel it’s adequate so I don’t think the Shortbow is by any means our “best” option.

Short Bow is an exceptionally well designed weapon, which is why many use it. The other weapon combos are not used as much mainly because their evasion mechanics don’t work as well. Most dual skills for example are quite risky despite having evasion or stun, so people will often rather go for lower single target damage than risking too much for a bit more damage.

PS: I also think that this game is rather melee unfriendly. I rarely find myself meleeing in big DEs because it’s mostly too risky or too ineffective due to mob(s) movements.

fractal.7039:

@Wolfe

Body Shot and CnD both cause stacking vulnerability, which causes you BS to hit harder.

Bleed is awesome when you need to kite or stay ranged. Caltrops + stealth pistol shot + auto attack = 15+ bleed stacks

P/D and D/P is about controlling your positioning and keeping the enemy guessing…

i guess the things that worry me is how much damage does bodyshot+CnD really give?

how much damage do you really do with bleeds in a power build?

caltrops are indeed nice tho i hesitate to give up my utility skills atm (shadow refuge, smoke screen, shadowstep)

Shortbow in Dungeons + WvW is almost a necessity if you are into doing the most damage you can with your character (while not dying in melee range).

Im 80 with full MF exotic gear. What im saying is i still miss out on quite a bit of damage from %crit damage. BUT.. i still crit explosive bomb for anywhere between 2k to 6k+ in dungeons and WvW. (30,30,0,10,0). The only time i use D/D is when someone is away from the pack and i can get them Solo. Otherwise, the overall effectiveness of the Shortbow is just too good to pass up. I mean seriously, critting 5 people for 5000+ is just a lot of damage. Not to mention owning people on the walls who “think” they are out of range. trollol on them.

Necro’s have the same problem.

It’s their only 2 hander which also happens to be pretty much mandatory.

Has the aoe, the most range, the most utility, etc.

Both Necro/Thief could use an alternate 2 handers. =/

Personally for Thief I’d long to see a crossbow with an emphasis on slow, powerful hits, would be awesome. They could give it some good piercing and aoe to give an alternate aoe weapon and maybe partly a sniper type weapon.

Ruufio.1496:

I’d like to see Roll for Initiative actually be… a ROLL where it’s a random chance for initiative restored. Minimum being 1 and maximum being all. Like dice. In exchange, make Roll for Initiative also restore 50% Endurance. Fair.

Never. Random returns are always horrible. GW2 isn’t D&D, and there’s no need to “roll” a d20 for initiative at the start of combat. The roll, in this case, is the physical roll backwards.

I hope they a crossbow some day or something. An almost similar set but just to give us some variety.

The shortbow is indeed a must in every thief tourney build.

Currently the thief is the only class so restricted on weapon choice.

Necros are picking staff over anything else only due to build variety seriously lacking for them ( the devs clearly stated they need help, infact they’re slowly buffing them with every patch).

Imo, NOTHING should be a must have, but we’ll see in the future.

I actually dont like the SB in PVE or in WvW. It does help in WvW as its easy to use and good AoE, but I find pistol/dagger to be superior in most situations.