Guild Wars 2

In the game. Because of the instant access to blast finisher it might be the best group/combo play weapon of them all.

TheGuy.3568:

In the game. Because of the instant access to blast finisher it might be the best group/combo play weapon of them all.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mighty_Blow
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Earthshaker
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcing_Arrow
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon%27s_Tooth

These all function more or less in the same way as shortbow #2. They’re blast finishers with a spammable quality. In my personal opinion Mighty Blow and the guardian hammer are more useful for group/combo play (especially since Mighty Blow is on a 5 second cooldown, which is infinitely more spammable than Cluster Bomb).

No
Mesmer best in everything.

Kerithlan.1659:

TheGuy.3568:

In the game. Because of the instant access to blast finisher it might be the best group/combo play weapon of them all.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mighty_Blow
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Earthshaker
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcing_Arrow
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon%27s_Tooth

These all function more or less in the same way as shortbow #2. They’re blast finishers with a spammable quality. In my personal opinion Mighty Blow and the guardian hammer are more useful for group/combo play (especially since Mighty Blow is on a 5 second cooldown, which is infinitely more spammable than Cluster Bomb).

Ok now we cna discuss. I agree about blow. But what you missed was that it even has a cd. Now lets discuss fields and how long they are up.

Lets start with water

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Geyser 2 seconds so equal
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Rain Now this is where it starts to get intersting. With perfect play you could get 2 might blows off in the field. Now knowing the skill and its Innate movement it might be tricky to pull off both blows (by no means impossible). Now cluster bomb At point blank range flight time is under second with execution it its a little over a second. Now with the up time of the field you could pull off between 4 and 6 blast finishers (trait for more init regen etc). Cluster Bomb is clearly superior

Now lets go to a longer field (and one of the longest in the game) http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Spring which is up for 15 seconds. With Mighty Blow that 3 blast finishers with perfect play, Now Cluster bomb with the base init pool can be cast 4 times. If you account for natural Initiative regen in the 15 seconds you’ll replenish 11.27 init. Meaning you can cast 3 more bombs for a total of 7 blast.

Now you may argue for reduced Hammer CD but if you account for how much extra regen you can get for init including gaining init from crit and the increased pool ( from 12-15) thief doesn’t only have more upper limit potential for blast finishers but it has no movement.

Beside the fact that all the skills you mentioned have CDs Mighty blow leaps you forward so you need to position to actually land in the field. Earth Shaker is limited by adrenaline and a 10 second cd. Arching Arrow same 10 second cd. Dragon tooth has a number of issues one. without a target it will cast roughly 750 m ahead of you. Putting the player out of the field. If it does have a target you would have to be next to the mob who is also in the field. It also doesn’t cast sometime when it doesn’t have a target.

I apologize for the long reply but your argument was heavily flawed and I felt it needed a detailed response.

Cluster Bomb really is the best blast finisher; it’s the only one that can potentially get multiple activations per field. The ability to chain it like that is really key to making it so awesome.

Mighty Blow and the Guardian’s Hammer in general are super strong, it’s right up there with Cluster Bomb and available on a set you want to be using anyway.

The Warrior blast finishers are on marginal weapons and on 10 second cooldowns, and clearly aren’t in the same league as a result.

Dragon’s Tooth is interesting. Yes, it’s spammable, and can be used often; unfortunately using it often would mean you’re sitting in Fire, which means you’re bad at the game. The main value of Dragon’s Tooth is that you can lay down a field and trigger it yourself every time, which is pretty strong.

In sum, Mighty Blow and Cluster Bomb are outstanding blast finishers, and Elementalist is pretty sexy with its combination of strong fields plus a good finisher to trigger it immediately.

Ensign.2189:

Cluster Bomb really is the best blast finisher; it’s the only one that can potentially get multiple activations per field. The ability to chain it like that is really key to making it so awesome.

Mighty Blow and the Guardian’s Hammer in general are super strong, it’s right up there with Cluster Bomb and available on a set you want to be using anyway.

The Warrior blast finishers are on marginal weapons and on 10 second cooldowns, and clearly aren’t in the same league as a result.

Dragon’s Tooth is interesting. Yes, it’s spammable, and can be used often; unfortunately using it often would mean you’re sitting in Fire, which means you’re bad at the game. The main value of Dragon’s Tooth is that you can lay down a field and trigger it yourself every time, which is pretty strong.

In sum, Mighty Blow and Cluster Bomb are outstanding blast finishers, and Elementalist is pretty sexy with its combination of strong fields plus a good finisher to trigger it immediately.

Don’t get me wrong skill chain 1 for guardian hammer plus mighty blow is stupid good.

I didn’t come up with cluster bomb is good. In another thread (ele sub-forum) its was pointed out to me. I investigated and realized it was probably the best blast in the game.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/BEst-healing-combo-group-play/first#post1084233

On another note DD ele with evasive arcana can get up to 3 in quick succession but no spammable. S/D ele and S/F ele 4 not counting utility blast. Though I am not a fan of conjures this is pretty good too http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thunderclap_

My problem with using Cluster Bomb like that is that you’re limiting your other options. Where the guardian is able to make use of more fields more often via Mighty Blow, the thief would fall behind. Sure the thief might get more activations out of spamming Cluster Bomb, but that comes at a cost not present with the guardian hammer.

Specifically, you could spam Cluster Bomb point blank in such a way. In fact I do so quite a bit when grinding down weak, low-level mobs in PvE. The problem is that doing so drains a significant portion of my initiative, which overall limits what I’m able to do when I’m done with my spam.

Now granted if you hit it twice you’re not missing out with a 6 initiative cost, that’s only 40-50% of your total bar. However in order to do that successfully you need to be in a position that isn’t always favorable. If you’re trying to layer Might from a Fire field or Stealth from a Smoke field, then you’re probably in no danger at least 50% of the time. When it comes down to layering blind or weakness etc though you find yourself in a rough spot. You have to pretty much be on top of your opponent for this to be reasonable for multiple applications for some fields to get maximum use.

With the guardian’s hammer you’re going to find yourself in a more favorable position more often. You can use Mighty Blow to reposition yourself into the field much more quickly than the thief can, for example. This means that when the stars don’t align and you’re not in the center of the field when it goes down, the guardian has the advantage. The guardian also has the advantage of wanting to be in melee range and has the luxury of standing around for a few seconds if needed, both of which aren’t always shared by the thief. Mighty Blow is also a normal part of the hammer guardian’s gameplay, so there’s no need to resort to spam gimmicks in order to pull the combo off.

Basically what I’m getting at is that while the Cluster Bomb can be more useful in the immediate, that alone doesn’t make it the best burst finisher in the game. You have to consider the whole package. We’ll do a short comparison list to help highlight this.

Cluster Bomb:
+1 Can create more blast finishers in a shorter span of time
+1 Is on a popular and desirable weapon that is already utilized in group play
-1 Requires the thief to be in the combo field already in order to activate it in such a way
-1 Easier to mismanage the thief’s resources, which may negatively affect overall effectiveness
-1 Requires initiative to use, which requires the thief to invest more time/planning into setting up
-1 Has the potential to place the thief at risk, which either means the finisher spam is unavailable, unsafe or undesirable some of the time
Total: -2

Mighty Blow:
+1 Is on a popular and desirable weapon that is already utilized in group play
+1 Has a 5s cooldown, allowing it to be used often and consistently over the course of a fight
+1 Can reposition the guardian into the combo field if necessary (~0.5 sec microleap)
+1 Is on a melee weapon, which encourages its use on top of enemies
-1 It’s harder to combo with the hammer’s built-in combo field when compared to Cluster Bomb and the thief’s shortbow
-1 Generates blast finishers less frequently than Cluster Bomb potentially can
Total: +2

The difference between the two finishers is that Mighty Blow benefits from positioning, speed, and consistency. While you can make Cluster Bomb trigger five fields in 3 seconds, it isn’t wise (especially in prolonged fights). Cluster Bomb like the thief itself is a burst finisher. The guardian’s Mighty Blow doesn’t need to worry about resources, or positioning, or what it’s going to do next — the player just presses #2 every 5 seconds and fireworks go off.

If you want to focus on water combo fields, then sure the thief might be able to get a couple extra heals out of Geyser or Healing Rain when compared to the guardian. However if you pair the guardian and thief up with a ranger the thief’s burst is almost irrelevant.

Sure the thief can potentially spam more blast finishers in 15 seconds than the guardian can, but it’s at the cost of pretty much every other aspect of the thief profession and its utility. That makes it inferior to the guardian, who can comfortably get 2-3 blast finishers out of Healing Spring, and without sacrificing any aspect of his/her gameplay choices.

Also warriors just need 5 trait points in strength and they cause a blast finisher whenever they dodge roll, so like, that’s comparative burst when Geyser is used (and is more likely to be properly utilized).

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Choking_Gas
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cluster_Bomb

Spammable Area Weakness combo. Entire dungeons trivialised.

Auesis.7301:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Choking_Gas
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cluster_Bomb

Spammable Area Weakness combo. Entire dungeons trivialised.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skale_Venom_
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Judgment
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Savage_Leap
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heartseeker
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Leap

/shrug …?

Leap finishers do the same thing? You can buy it for PvE, so any AoE can do it?

Not seeing how this is special.

Kerithlan.1659:

Auesis.7301:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Choking_Gas
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cluster_Bomb

Spammable Area Weakness combo. Entire dungeons trivialised.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skale_Venom_
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Judgment
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Savage_Leap
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heartseeker
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Leap

/shrug …?

Leap finishers do the same thing? You can buy it for PvE, so any AoE can do it?

Not seeing how this is special.

The fact that it has no special requirement eg. crits, hits a plethora of targets for a good duration per shot, has no noticable cooldowns and is a completely internal combo and thus needs no co-operation to pull off? Leap finishers also apply to a single target or to the targets that your attack reaches, nowhere near as much coverage as the Area Blast. The poison field is also incredibly spammable by itself and can be exploited by anybody for the Blast Area Weakness, not just you, and you can place it at a whim.

There is simply no better way to spread weakness quickly and efficiently. Nothing even comes close. Try the Dredge fractal at 20+ both with and without a Thief doing this – the effects are immediately obvious.

Auesis.7301:

Kerithlan.1659:

Auesis.7301:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Choking_Gas
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cluster_Bomb

Spammable Area Weakness combo. Entire dungeons trivialised.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skale_Venom_
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Judgment
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Savage_Leap
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heartseeker
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Leap

/shrug …?

Leap finishers do the same thing? You can buy it for PvE, so any AoE can do it?

Not seeing how this is special.

The fact that it has no special requirement eg. crits, hits a plethora of targets for a good duration per shot, has no noticable cooldowns and is a completely internal combo and thus needs no co-operation to pull off? Leap finishers also apply to a single target or to the targets that your attack reaches, nowhere near as much coverage as the Area Blast. The poison field is also incredibly spammable by itself and can be exploited by anybody for the Blast Area Weakness, not just you, and you can place it at a whim.

There is simply no better way to spread weakness quickly and efficiently. Nothing even comes close. Try the Dredge fractal at 20+ both with and without a Thief doing this – the effects are immediately obvious.

Ah see there’s the problem, I don’t consider it special because I think Fractals are boring as kitten and thus don’t play them.

@Kerithlan.1659

I will use your criteria "positioning, speed, and consistency. "

Positioning – Cluster Bomb is a ground targeted attack allowing the player to use it anywhere within its 1200 range. Mighty blow is a melee attack with a range of 300 and thus requires the player to place himself in harms way to pull if the blast finisher.

Speed – Cluster Bomb at the range of 300 takes roughly 2 second from button press to detonation. Might blow takes considerably less time at 3/4 of a second. However, due to the fact that cluster bomb can be activated again immediately after detonation at the same distance you would get 2 bombs off for every 1 traited Mighty Blow. If both are in point blank melee range the execution is roughly the same span of time and CB has no cool down.

Consistency – Might blow can be used every 5 seconds untraited every 4 traited. CB untraited can be used every 3.99 seconds as init regen is 1.33 seconds per every one init so roughly every 4 seconds after expending the entire bar you can use CB. When traited for init regen CB becomes even more consistent.

I’ll add 1 more.

Range – Cluster bomb can be used at range to apply finishers in fields meant to disable or hurt enemies ie poison and dark. Looking at http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Poison_Field you’ll see that all player skills are ranged. And with the exception of one pet skill so are those. This leads to situations that without putting anyone in harms way you can complete combos. Added note all http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dark_Field have the capability to be ranged when traited for it.

Cluster Bomb is the superior blast finisher. This isn’t an opinion but fact. The math backs it up.

I had a long post planned to point everything out but this condensed version should simplify my point and make it easy to understand. In every aspect at least compared to Mighty Blow Cluster Bomb is better. Please don’t pass on false information to the community. It is to the determent of us all as a whole. Accept your mistake and do some research of your own. In group play its best to know what works best. It will make you a better and more flexible. As I said before someone pointed it out to me. I researched what they said and found that they were correct and I was wrong. Just trying to pass that information on to others like a good member of the community would.

TheGuy, my post was comparing spamming Cluster Bomb multiple times for multiple activations within a short period of time to having Mighty Blow available more frequently and as a natural/organic part of hammer guardian gameplay. Your post is irrelevant because it isn’t what I was discussing.

We were discussing team utility between the thief short bow and the guardian hammer, and we were discussing bursting all of your initiative for 4-5 activations once every so often versus the hammer activating things once consistently.

Cluster Bomb cannot be activated 4-5 times in a row unless the thief is standing inside of or directly next to the combo field, as the flight time of the projectile simply does not allow it to be so. In order for Cluster Bomb to activate naturally/organically, it will be slower than a guardian with the hammer as the guardian will already be in melee and will already be inside of the combo field.

Mighty Blow can be used point blank to hit a foe point blank without the guardian moving, or it can be utilized to allow for the guardian to hop ~300 units. This is infinitely faster than a projectile moving between 300-1200 units as the leap animation is simply quicker than the projectile’s speed.

The thief shortbow is a good weapon that can be used for party support just as effectively as the guardian hammer can be, but in the odd gimmicky scenarios you’ve presented for discussion it becomes nothing more than a burst stick. This renders the thief almost useless for 3-5 seconds. The hammer guardian, meanwhile, does not become less effective when he/she performs similar tasks.

It isn’t misinformation — it’s fact. Hitting 2-5 burst finishers in a short amount of time (using your Geyser example, 2 seconds) is incredibly situational, reduces the thief’s efficiency for a short while, places the thief in an unfavorable field position, and does not provide any significant long-term advantage over the thief playing normally.

I’ve been discussing that. If you want to argue that this is somehow incorrect then be my guest, but please do so without patronizing me as you’ve done here.

Kerithlan.1659:

TheGuy, my post was comparing spamming Cluster Bomb multiple times for multiple activations within a short period of time to having Mighty Blow available more frequently and as a natural/organic part of hammer guardian gameplay. Your post is irrelevant because it isn’t what I was discussing.

We were discussing team utility between the thief short bow and the guardian hammer, and we were discussing bursting all of your initiative for 4-5 activations once every so often versus the hammer activating things once consistently.

Cluster Bomb cannot be activated 4-5 times in a row unless the thief is standing inside of or directly next to the combo field, as the flight time of the projectile simply does not allow it to be so. In order for Cluster Bomb to activate naturally/organically, it will be slower than a guardian with the hammer as the guardian will already be in melee and will already be inside of the combo field.

Mighty Blow can be used point blank to hit a foe point blank without the guardian moving, or it can be utilized to allow for the guardian to hop ~300 units. This is infinitely faster than a projectile moving between 300-1200 units as the leap animation is simply quicker than the projectile’s speed.

The thief shortbow is a good weapon that can be used for party support just as effectively as the guardian hammer can be, but in the odd gimmicky scenarios you’ve presented for discussion it becomes nothing more than a burst stick. This renders the thief almost useless for 3-5 seconds. The hammer guardian, meanwhile, does not become less effective when he/she performs similar tasks.

It isn’t misinformation — it’s fact. Hitting 2-5 burst finishers in a short amount of time (using your Geyser example, 2 seconds) is incredibly situational, reduces the thief’s efficiency for a short while, places the thief in an unfavorable field position, and does not provide any significant long-term advantage over the thief playing normally.

I’ve been discussing that. If you want to argue that this is somehow incorrect then be my guest, but please do so without patronizing me as you’ve done here.

Sigh you didn’t read my previous post. Staying ignorant is your choice using words like “natural” does not make what you say fact i literally timed the projectile times at 300 range to respond to you. It makes sense since my post full of math, numbers, and actual data is “irrelevant” to you. BTW 300-1200 read my response “Speed” you might learn something. To think how I even explain that the natural cool down on Cluster Bomb is 3.99 seconds and that you don’t have to spam it but it is an actual option unlike mighty blow. Lol I must be an kitten for even starting this thread or explaining anything in detail. How foolish.

Quick succession might stacking requires successive blast finishers. Its not gimmicky but a way of playing the game. I used water as an example but almost all fields benefit from quick succession stacks. fire Field might stacking is part of the game play and requires quick blast done successively. Some examples of how difficult it usually is.

Pre Evasive Arcana Nerf
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xsz5cf_s-d-might-stacking-spike_videogames#.UN4Sr2_h8mA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWq7pFybAIk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy6xpGGubCk

Either way you wont read or understand what I am telling you. I realize your trolling now and I have fed you (shame on me). Should have realized considering your a hammer guardian. Ignorance is bliss and you are welcome to it.

Ohh btw spamming cluster bomb and using poison field is part of normal short bow play. Some one dropped a water field in WvW today taking a keep I did 8k healing in about 5 seconds, to everyone around me.

Can’t believe engineer isn’t mentioned here with grenades……infinite spam, no cooldown strongest blast finisher ever.

none of the grenades are blast finishers (oddly enough)

Adaneshade.2409:

Can’t believe engineer isn’t mentioned here with grenades……infinite spam, no cooldown strongest blast finisher ever.

While engi has quite a few blast finishers non are truly spamable. Heres the list http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blast_Finisher.

I’ve realised shortbow is best used against groups, instead of 1. I need that arrow to bounce around to hit the target 2x with 1 arrow. I realised this when soloing camps in wvw. It’s actually easier to just dive into the whole camp than try to pick off things one at a time. Too bad P/D sucks bad against groups, its fun.