Guild Wars 2

Yes.

This is far overdue after all the sustain and passive defenses have been added. Is this the only direct damage ability in the game that can’t crit?

Can not crit

i’m fine with it either way

You also need to take into account of players that do not have passive defence. Thief vs thief is already a joke for example. Mug alone does 2230 ish dmg and would crit up to 5k easily, now ad pi that’s another 4k asuming steal interupted the target, and air sigil. That’s 10k before backstab. I say no to crit on mug

It gave a time, where it critted, but therefore it didn’t heal…

In my opinion should mug crit baseline and the healign part should be something you get on top of it, if you trait for it under trickery, that if you use “Thrill of Crime”, then Mug will also heal you.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

You also need to take into account of players that do not have passive defence. Thief vs thief is already a joke for example. Mug alone does 2230 ish dmg and would crit up to 5k easily, now ad pi that’s another 4k asuming steal interupted the target, and air sigil. That’s 10k before backstab. I say no to crit on mug

oh….well when you put it like that….Definitely make it crit (joking)

Prior to HoT… hell no. Post HoT… hell yes.

Thieves need more tools to counter the Bunker meta. GW2 WvW really needs to go through an UnBunkering. This passive bunker meta is trash.

I rather have Mug causes knockdown.

Prior to the games release, during the first couple of Beta Weekend Events, Mug did have the capability to crit. I don’t remember the exact reasoning why they changed it, though I imagine it was due to the sheer amount of burst potential it created. Then again back then “Revealed” wasn’t a thing, and Thieves could Mug + Backstab burst, then CnD immediately for the stomp and getaway. Now-a-days, it wouldn’t be a horrible thing to revert it back to being able to crit, but it would likely result in a down scaling of the damage… and lots of kittening on our forums about being “One shot by Mug-Burst”.

We don’t need more dmg, we do plenty of it. What we really need is reliable ways to land it. If Anet refuses to reduce amount of blocks/invuls/heals/passives etc. then we need more tools to deal with those. Making basi unblockable was the step in right direction but way too tiny, way… too…. small, like drop of water in the bucket full of horse crap – sry, bucket is still hella dirty.

Mug could crit for a long time in 2012.

It was hilariously overpowered and was the reason they nerfed it to not crit. I one-shotted people repeatedly with it, or came kitten close to doing so.

No, mug doesn’t need the ability to crit. Steal cooldown reduction, particularly from SoH, should just be made baseline to help open up more trait lines from Trickery.

Passive procs and absurd defensive HoT abilities just need a nerf. Buffs on buffs won’t solve anything and will just make the game more stupid.

it use to crit and it did game breaking dmg XD

Let me rephrase If they put crit back in game you fought a glass cannon vs glass cannon steal probably be enough to 1 shot him xD.

As full zerk I was dealing 7k dmg with mug so it was kinda too strong as adept trait.

Terissimo.6852:

As full zerk I was dealing 7k dmg with mug so it was kinda too strong as adept trait.

And that’s on the lower side either coming from a more durable opponent or a not-super-bursty builds. I recall getting mine at times close to 12k.

Changing mug to not crit was honestly one of the best changes ANet has made for the thief. It really was overpowered.

What is the point of comparing Mug crits from 4 years ago to the meta now? Back then thief also used to have pretty strong 1v1 and large teamfight potential yet look where we are now.

No crit with Mug those were dark times.

Necrotize.2974:

What is the point of comparing Mug crits from 4 years ago to the meta now? Back then thief also used to have pretty strong 1v1 and large teamfight potential yet look where we are now.

Here’s a post-HoT screenshot for you.

Mug has a 20% higher coeffient than CnD.

It would be stupid broken, just as it was back in 2012.

It would be ok and not gonna be OP.
If you only see the outgoing damage, your making mistake.

There are tons of blocks, auto trigger invulnerable, active invulnerable, and passive heals and active heals, in addition, protections and out source damage reduction.

Now, is too much different from the past it can’t be compared with screenshots like
2 years ago

And you can see the other class could easily out damage thief with their easy hitters
like, precision strike, rocket hammer, shatter, ranger’s smoke scale skills, true shot and traps, head butt, arc divider, etc

These are easy to hit and comes with very high reward(about 5k damage)
which is result with enemy’s dead body.
It could burst out a foe or pressure to force them to use utilities, heals
so fight against them requires high alert about those skills.
Yet, you could think like this.

“Thief has high mobility that makes initiate anytime.”

yes, and thats why thief has low hp and low defence, so counterblow could be deadly.
So… crit on mug wouldn’t be a problem anymore

DeceiverX.8361:

Necrotize.2974:

What is the point of comparing Mug crits from 4 years ago to the meta now? Back then thief also used to have pretty strong 1v1 and large teamfight potential yet look where we are now.

Here’s a post-HoT screenshot for you.

Mug has a 20% higher coeffient than CnD.

It would be stupid broken, just as it was back in 2012.

This screen shot was taken on a full glass build vs a full glass target with 15-25 stacks of might. Blowing that target a kiss from this build would hit for 4.5k… xD

Turk.5460:

DeceiverX.8361:

Necrotize.2974:

What is the point of comparing Mug crits from 4 years ago to the meta now? Back then thief also used to have pretty strong 1v1 and large teamfight potential yet look where we are now.

Here’s a post-HoT screenshot for you.

Mug has a 20% higher coeffient than CnD.

It would be stupid broken, just as it was back in 2012.

This screen shot was taken on a full glass build vs a full glass target with 15-25 stacks of might. Blowing that target a kiss from this build would hit for 4.5k… xD

I know the guy that posted this, ~18k hp is not really glass. Pretty standard as far as thief roaming builds go. He may have had 5 might maybe 10 at most. I’ve had him mug me for 6k before actually buffed out (without signet assassins signet active) . If mug could crit, he’d be doing it for 17k. Think about that for a second, 17k mug. He’d literally mug 90% of most peoples health.

Steal is a pretty loaded skill without traits. Then you can augment it to be even better with traits like mug. I don’t think crit buffs to mug are what will make the class more reliable. We have a tone of skills that are really low impact, and issues landing hits with all the passive defenses going around. Maybe those are better areas to look for buffs as we already have tones of damage in the thief kit.

Eval.2371:

Turk.5460:

DeceiverX.8361:

Necrotize.2974:

What is the point of comparing Mug crits from 4 years ago to the meta now? Back then thief also used to have pretty strong 1v1 and large teamfight potential yet look where we are now.

Here’s a post-HoT screenshot for you.

Mug has a 20% higher coeffient than CnD.

It would be stupid broken, just as it was back in 2012.

This screen shot was taken on a full glass build vs a full glass target with 15-25 stacks of might. Blowing that target a kiss from this build would hit for 4.5k… xD

I know the guy that posted this, ~18k hp is not really glass. Pretty standard as far as thief roaming builds go. He may have had 5 might maybe 10 at most. I’ve had him mug me for 6k before actually buffed out (without signet assassins signet active) . If mug could crit, he’d be doing it for 17k. Think about that for a second, 17k mug. He’d literally mug 90% of most peoples health.

Steal is a pretty loaded skill without traits. Then you can augment it to be even better with traits like mug. I don’t think crit buffs to mug are what will make the class more reliable. We have a tone of skills that are really low impact, and issues landing hits with all the passive defenses going around. Maybe those are better areas to look for buffs as we already have tones of damage in the thief kit.

6k mug is nonsense unless you are upleveled

I’d honestly settle for tying more unblockable to thief abilities instead of just straight damage/crit buffs. Maybe like “Mug is unblockable, your next 1-3 attacks are unblockable”. This would be a nice buff to dagger offhand and at the same time wouldn’t really benefit D/P enough to make it oppressive. I really hate to say it, but if this was a trait it might be a little OP combined with Bountiful Theft, so it’d likely have to be a competing trait.

Eval.2371:

Turk.5460:

DeceiverX.8361:

Necrotize.2974:

What is the point of comparing Mug crits from 4 years ago to the meta now? Back then thief also used to have pretty strong 1v1 and large teamfight potential yet look where we are now.

Here’s a post-HoT screenshot for you.

Mug has a 20% higher coeffient than CnD.

It would be stupid broken, just as it was back in 2012.

This screen shot was taken on a full glass build vs a full glass target with 15-25 stacks of might. Blowing that target a kiss from this build would hit for 4.5k… xD

I know the guy that posted this, ~18k hp is not really glass. Pretty standard as far as thief roaming builds go. He may have had 5 might maybe 10 at most. I’ve had him mug me for 6k before actually buffed out (without signet assassins signet active) . If mug could crit, he’d be doing it for 17k. Think about that for a second, 17k mug. He’d literally mug 90% of most peoples health.

If I’m not mistaken, he’d have ~15 stacks of might when initiating the burst just from activating the 3 signets. I say about 15 because he could easily steal stacks from you or have sigils that could proc more.

Turk.5460:

DeceiverX.8361:

Necrotize.2974:

What is the point of comparing Mug crits from 4 years ago to the meta now? Back then thief also used to have pretty strong 1v1 and large teamfight potential yet look where we are now.

Here’s a post-HoT screenshot for you.

Mug has a 20% higher coeffient than CnD.

It would be stupid broken, just as it was back in 2012.

This screen shot was taken on a full glass build vs a full glass target with 15-25 stacks of might. Blowing that target a kiss from this build would hit for 4.5k… xD

My build isn’t glass at all (did you not notice the +70% more hp than baseline for thief that I run?), and the opponent was a level 80 daredevil, thus not being as squishy as even a berserker backline ele, necro, or mesmer.

If you’re not running to play big damage, you do not get to complain your damage is too low. Play for damage, and deal the damage like you can do now. If you think damage is too low, when in reality it can be made to be very high, either do not complain or change your build.

Mug would be just totally broken to allow it to crit, unless the coefficient is cut in at least half, which is kind of stupid to do since it would accomplish nothing except make the class less consistent.

DeceiverX.8361:

Turk.5460:

DeceiverX.8361:

Necrotize.2974:

What is the point of comparing Mug crits from 4 years ago to the meta now? Back then thief also used to have pretty strong 1v1 and large teamfight potential yet look where we are now.

Here’s a post-HoT screenshot for you.

Mug has a 20% higher coeffient than CnD.

It would be stupid broken, just as it was back in 2012.

This screen shot was taken on a full glass build vs a full glass target with 15-25 stacks of might. Blowing that target a kiss from this build would hit for 4.5k… xD

My build isn’t glass at all (did you not notice the +70% more hp than baseline for thief that I run?), and the opponent was a level 80 daredevil, thus not being as squishy as even a berserker backline ele, necro, or mesmer.

If you’re not running to play big damage, you do not get to complain your damage is too low. Play for damage, and deal the damage like you can do now. If you think damage is too low, when in reality it can be made to be very high, either do not complain or change your build.

Mug would be just totally broken to allow it to crit, unless the coefficient is cut in at least half, which is kind of stupid to do since it would accomplish nothing except make the class less consistent.

+1

Unskilled bad Thieves players want back 8k+ Mug in sPvP right ? Its so funny.

I really dont want back no brain combo Basilisk Venom -> Assassin signet -> Mug -> BS = profit

Evilek.5690:

DeceiverX.8361:

Turk.5460:

DeceiverX.8361:

Necrotize.2974:

What is the point of comparing Mug crits from 4 years ago to the meta now? Back then thief also used to have pretty strong 1v1 and large teamfight potential yet look where we are now.

Here’s a post-HoT screenshot for you.

Mug has a 20% higher coeffient than CnD.

It would be stupid broken, just as it was back in 2012.

This screen shot was taken on a full glass build vs a full glass target with 15-25 stacks of might. Blowing that target a kiss from this build would hit for 4.5k… xD

My build isn’t glass at all (did you not notice the +70% more hp than baseline for thief that I run?), and the opponent was a level 80 daredevil, thus not being as squishy as even a berserker backline ele, necro, or mesmer.

If you’re not running to play big damage, you do not get to complain your damage is too low. Play for damage, and deal the damage like you can do now. If you think damage is too low, when in reality it can be made to be very high, either do not complain or change your build.

Mug would be just totally broken to allow it to crit, unless the coefficient is cut in at least half, which is kind of stupid to do since it would accomplish nothing except make the class less consistent.

+1

Unskilled bad Thieves players want back 8k+ Mug in sPvP right ? Its so funny.

I really dont want back no brain combo Basilisk Venom -> Assassin signet -> Mug -> BS = profit

More like people are looking for things to change to make thieves less terrible in SPvP. Does matter if I setup the perfect Bound>Mug>Vault with panic strike or impairing daggers, a Rev could do similar damage while also evading the entire time with Unrelenting Assault on a much shorter cd.

The whole point of having a discussion is to bounce ideas off each other. Not to find someone you don’t agree with, make assumptions, and call them unskilled/bad then call it a day.

Gibimo.2193:

6k mug is nonsense unless you are upleveled

Not upleveled. This was fully buffed out with bloodlust & food/utility. He runs an abuse case build, that’s all I’ll say.

Necrotize.2974:

If I’m not mistaken, he’d have ~15 stacks of might when initiating the burst just from activating the 3 signets. I say about 15 because he could easily steal stacks from you or have sigils that could proc more.

I’ve never seen him in the entirety of roaming with him (prob about 400 hours) engage with signet of shadows. It’s his get away/kite tool. He rarely pops assassin signet unless he knows he has the kill. So maybe 11 might, more than likely 6 might as I know he does not run bountiful theft.

Necrotize.2974:

I’d honestly settle for tying more unblockable to thief abilities instead of just straight damage/crit buffs. Maybe like “Mug is unblockable, your next 1-3 attacks are unblockable”.

This is more what I’d like to see, right now we struggle with the amount of blocks and invulns going around. Our only tool to break through defenses was re purposed.It makes thief really tedious to play.

I like the idea of mug or a similar trait adding unblockable effects. Possibly maybe even an interrupt effect that forces people out of invuln status. More than likely that would be over the top.

Depends on a variety of factors, but IS/AS were typically always used on engage, therefore 11 might.

SoS is typically kept as a defensive tool to deny an enemy’s (or group) critical single-hit ability if I get caught (gravediggers, killshots, PBS, etc.) since it’s a 1200-range AoE blind.

I’ll have gone to 16 and pop SoS If I previously had the target very, very close to death, but didn’t quite get there, and am totally sure they’re alone. This was a pretty uncommon thing since either typically the target outright dies or puts up a long fought-out struggle. If I fail the burst, things are hard. If I fail the burst and don’t have SoS to keep pressure and mobility for a sustained fight, it becomes almost impossible to emerge as a winner unless the enemy really screws up.

As far as unblockables go, It’s tough territory without making the thief way too strong against traditionally block-heavy builds. Consider a glassy warrior running a shield or a guard; we shouldn’t be able to just have an easy means to cut through their active defenses, just because there are too many blocks going around the game. I think adding it to mug is particularly overkill, since the trait is already very strong. Quite honestly, raw damage and in particular the reliability of damage more or less belongs in crit strikes, since that’s the entire line’s purpose. The GM’s there are already fairly weak, particularly Hidden Killer, and could perhaps be expanded upon.

Of course, this would need separate evaluation for different weapon sets, and realistically, ANet is never going to fix any aspects of the thief.

In the grand scheme of things I’d say allow mug to crit again, BUT remove the ability to crit from bound.

Azukas.1426:

In the grand scheme of things I’d say allow mug to crit again, BUT remove the ability to crit from bound.

wouldn’t matter to me. people would pair it with vault, sigil of air+fire and abuse the hell out of it anyway. The potential for an insane telport burst is just too high.

Mug feels like it’s in a good place when I use it. When I’m not using CS or Acro there’s pretty much only that one build and I don’t need one more reason to be funneled into that build.

mug shouldnt crit but it should be baseline for steal as well as some other trait-based steal bonuses

its embarassing how terrible steal is compared to mechanics of other classes if you dont dump half of your specialization trees into steal traits