Signet Thief (PvE, Dungeon high survivability/dps)
Sigils should be Superior Sigil of Force.
Unless they fixed it, two of those don’t stack. Also you’re going deep crit chance and incredible hit volume, but no crit proc sigil?
Instead of Signet of Shadows, take Signet of Agility. An actual useful passive in a dungeon fight and and active that’ll give you free instant condition removal and endurance to feed into 3 more might stacks.
Sigils should be Superior Sigil of Force.
Unless they fixed it, two of those don’t stack. Also you’re going deep crit chance and incredible hit volume, but no crit proc sigil?
Instead of Signet of Shadows, take Signet of Agility. An actual useful passive in a dungeon fight and and active that’ll give you free instant condition removal and endurance to feed into 3 more might stacks.
You can always run a sigil of force+sigil of air (I recently got my berserker’s pear sabre so I’ll be getting a superior sigil of air pretty soon (my old sword had it). I actually use SoA a lot but on the run I need the 25% movement when dealing with the trash mobs in Orr.
Just did a CM EM Asura path. With this build I was out dpsing the entire party (thanx haste+trickery+pistol whip) and was dying less then the guardian while collecting just as much agro.
The party was commenting on the absolutely insane dps I was doing.
I tried this Build in a DG and its actual a very nice solid build.
I died a few times as i not really used to it yet but I like it so far.
I’ve been using a build very similiar to this for a while. It’s very nice indeed.
Gnome Child [Gc]
Resident Thief
Resident Thief
Hmm so full berserker jewelry, and the power/tov/vitality from orr karma temples?
What runes in the armor ?
I’ll post a screen of my current setup (I have a few things to get still to perfect it)
But my accessories are Emerald Ori “insert name” of the Berserker…it’s not full berserker gear.
I also use a mix and match set of temple karma exotics (still working on replacing my coat with a karma coat for that +72 vitality boost) and valk emblazonized pants (because the karma pants don’t have power).
I also don’t have my runes for my armor yet (still deciding what I want)
My stats so far (they will improve still by +74 vit and +165 power)
Power: 2204
Precision: 1697
Toughness: 1356
Vitality: 1340
Attack: 3218
Critical chance: 41%
Armor: 2420
Health: 15045 (its actually 16249, not sure why its listed as lower)
For runes I’m thinking Superior Rune of the Scholar, gives strength, crit damage and 5% additional damage when your health is over 90% (which is frequent because of SoM, PW and your SB)
I think I will give this a go. Though i’d prolly use ruby orbs in the armor their cheap, and give solid hard stats. (could go emerald instead if you want more toughness)
I think I will give this a go. Though i’d prolly use ruby orbs in the armor their cheap, and give solid hard stats. (could go emerald instead if you want more toughness)
I’ve actually wondered how it would work with full berserker exotic accessories socketed with exquisite ruby. It would probably do some broken damage. (atm I’m criting on a normal attack for 4k, PW will crit for 8k on Orr mobs).
Thinking I’ll switch over to this for my thief while leveling, thanks for the build!
Maybe I just suck, but I can’t get anything but D/D bleeds to work well for me. I just take too many hits. I would like to try something like this, but it always fails hard. Is there hope for me?
Tell Anet’s boss what you think: http://tinyurl.com/arkgzku
Been trying out this build in the mists and I can’t seem to find any such rotation that gives you the ability to spam PW and keep it going for a minute – especially with haste thrown in.
Roll in – PW – haste – couple PW’s – steal – couple PW’s – signets – couple PW’s – no initiative left
Not an exact rotation, but this is generally how it goes. Am I missing something?
Been trying out this build in the mists and I can’t seem to find any such rotation that gives you the ability to spam PW and keep it going for a minute – especially with haste thrown in.
Roll in – PW – haste – couple PW’s – steal – couple PW’s – signets – couple PW’s – no initiative left
Not an exact rotation, but this is generally how it goes. Am I missing something?
Non-sPvP gear and food gives more potential for precision stacking which is fairly important for the initiative-on-crit trait. That said, OP said he was going power/toughness for gear so if he was able to pull out enough initiative to PW for a minute it should be doable in The Mists. Also note that he may have been consistently using PW against 3 targets, which would result in much better initiative returns.
All that aside, there isn’t much practical use for being able to spam PW forever. Use it for the evade/hit volume, but you can auto attack for more DPS/mobility in most situations.
(edited by Tulisin.6945)
Omg. I just switched to this build. It is amazing! Thanks!
S H U N P O [TS]
Sea Of Sorrows Commander
Sea Of Sorrows Commander
Been trying out this build in the mists and I can’t seem to find any such rotation that gives you the ability to spam PW and keep it going for a minute – especially with haste thrown in.
Roll in – PW – haste – couple PW’s – steal – couple PW’s – signets – couple PW’s – no initiative left
Not an exact rotation, but this is generally how it goes. Am I missing something?
Non-sPvP gear and food gives more potential for precision stacking which is fairly important for the initiative-on-crit trait. That said, OP said he was going power/toughness for gear so if he was able to pull out enough initiative to PW for a minute it should be doable in The Mists. Also note that he may have been consistently using PW against 3 targets, which would result in much better initiative returns.
All that aside, there isn’t much practical use for being able to spam PW forever. Use it for the evade/hit volume, but you can auto attack for more DPS/mobility in most situations.
He forgot that Signet Use gives 2 initiative back, Fast Recovery gives some back and natural init regen as well.
When you do the proper rotation you can spam PW 10 times in a row…if you felt inclined to (which you shouldn’t, there’s no reason to do this).
I’ve swapped my Emerald Orichalcum accessories out for berserker’s, otherwise the build is the same and with the higher damage I find its a good WvW build too (you use the SB mostly then when someone is out of position swap to S/P, shadow step in, Haste+PW, take the kill and Shadow Return back after or if things get too hairy).
When farming in PvE I also tend to take Furious Retaliation instead of Signets of Power.
Been trying out this build in the mists and I can’t seem to find any such rotation that gives you the ability to spam PW and keep it going for a minute – especially with haste thrown in.
Roll in – PW – haste – couple PW’s – steal – couple PW’s – signets – couple PW’s – no initiative left
Not an exact rotation, but this is generally how it goes. Am I missing something?
Non-sPvP gear and food gives more potential for precision stacking which is fairly important for the initiative-on-crit trait. That said, OP said he was going power/toughness for gear so if he was able to pull out enough initiative to PW for a minute it should be doable in The Mists. Also note that he may have been consistently using PW against 3 targets, which would result in much better initiative returns.
All that aside, there isn’t much practical use for being able to spam PW forever. Use it for the evade/hit volume, but you can auto attack for more DPS/mobility in most situations.
He forgot that Signet Use gives 2 initiative back, Fast Recovery gives some back and natural init regen as well.
The guy I was responding to stated he used OP’s build and had signets as part of his rotation, so he should already be utilizing those things except Fast Recovery, which apparently the OP can do one-minute PW spams without.
Been trying out this build in the mists and I can’t seem to find any such rotation that gives you the ability to spam PW and keep it going for a minute – especially with haste thrown in.
Roll in – PW – haste – couple PW’s – steal – couple PW’s – signets – couple PW’s – no initiative left
Not an exact rotation, but this is generally how it goes. Am I missing something?
Non-sPvP gear and food gives more potential for precision stacking which is fairly important for the initiative-on-crit trait. That said, OP said he was going power/toughness for gear so if he was able to pull out enough initiative to PW for a minute it should be doable in The Mists. Also note that he may have been consistently using PW against 3 targets, which would result in much better initiative returns.
All that aside, there isn’t much practical use for being able to spam PW forever. Use it for the evade/hit volume, but you can auto attack for more DPS/mobility in most situations.
He forgot that Signet Use gives 2 initiative back, Fast Recovery gives some back and natural init regen as well.
The guy I was responding to stated he used OP’s build and had signets as part of his rotation, so he should already be utilizing those things except Fast Recovery, which apparently the OP can do one-minute PW spams without.
A minute is a total hyperbole.
At maximum you can spam 11 PW in a row which doesn’t add up to a minute in duration.
If you don’t believe it go into HotM with a toon, trait for Signet Use, Fast Recovery and 15 initiative and without using haste go to a practice dummy and test it.
If you time everything right you’ll do 10 or 11 pistol whips, just remember stealing with give u 3 initiative, signet use gives u 2 initiative and get a feel for the initiative regen since if you don’t time it right you’ll lose initiative regen to having maxxed initiative. You can practice this on a test dummy.
Non-sPvP gear and food gives more potential for precision stacking which is fairly important for the initiative-on-crit trait.
I’m still not seeing an init-on-crit trait … ? The closest I found is “Initial Strike” which he doesn’t have in the build, plus it is a flat 7% on strike rather than crit. I’m wondering if this was why I was having trouble?
Non-sPvP gear and food gives more potential for precision stacking which is fairly important for the initiative-on-crit trait.
I’m still not seeing an init-on-crit trait … ? The closest I found is “Initial Strike” which he doesn’t have in the build, plus it is a flat 7% on strike rather than crit. I’m wondering if this was why I was having trouble?
“Opportunist” is the 15 point passive in the Critical Strikes line, you get it without picking it. It has a 1 second cooldown, but with enough hit volume and crits you can pull 2 initiative back out of a PW from that trait alone, on top of any you’re regenerating.
Non-sPvP gear and food gives more potential for precision stacking which is fairly important for the initiative-on-crit trait.
I’m still not seeing an init-on-crit trait … ? The closest I found is “Initial Strike” which he doesn’t have in the build, plus it is a flat 7% on strike rather than crit. I’m wondering if this was why I was having trouble?
Probably, I don’t use it because its a % on a % which is unreliable,
Non-sPvP gear and food gives more potential for precision stacking which is fairly important for the initiative-on-crit trait.
I’m still not seeing an init-on-crit trait … ? The closest I found is “Initial Strike” which he doesn’t have in the build, plus it is a flat 7% on strike rather than crit. I’m wondering if this was why I was having trouble?
Probably, I don’t use it because its a % on a % which is unreliable,
It is 20 % trigger chance, which with a 50 % crit rate ought to pull in about 1 init per PW on average. Plus it isn’t like there is much opportunity cost with it being a passive.
Non-sPvP gear and food gives more potential for precision stacking which is fairly important for the initiative-on-crit trait.
I’m still not seeing an init-on-crit trait … ? The closest I found is “Initial Strike” which he doesn’t have in the build, plus it is a flat 7% on strike rather than crit. I’m wondering if this was why I was having trouble?
Probably, I don’t use it because its a % on a % which is unreliable,
It is 20 % trigger chance, which with a 50 % crit rate ought to pull in about 1 init per PW on average. Plus it isn’t like there is much opportunity cost with it being a passive.
It still matters because its not guaranteed which in turn relies on luck. For the sake of testing you don’t rely on luck, you go with guarantees to prove a thesis.
Now if you prefer the trait in a combat situation, great but we are talking about a isolated testing environment.
As soon as you get good at PvE you’ll realize how useless vitality, and how COMPLETELY useless toughness is, on a thief; wishing you had gone berserkers.
Also if your going to try to talk scientific, it’s not LUCK its PROBABILITY. And yes averaging in probabilities is a scientific way of determining accurate things.
Insert Personal Achievements and/or Youtube Channel Here
As soon as you get good at PvE you’ll realize how useless vitality, and how COMPLETELY useless toughness is, on a thief; wishing you had gone berserkers.
Also if your going to try to talk scientific, it’s not LUCK its PROBABILITY. And yes averaging in probabilities is a scientific way of determining accurate things.
Vit/Toughness are important, you can’t kill stuff if you’re dead because you have 10-12k hp and were one shotted by X mob/boss.
The trick is not over investing into said stats hence why you see people talking about using things such as Valk gear+Berserker’s to give them some cushioning vs things such as condition damage.
[Edit by Moderator, personal fight removed]
(edited by Moderator)
Whoa, Scoot/Babel. You guys need to chill. You both make awesome contributions to the thief community, and outlandish statements attempting to ostracize each other are uncalled for.
Scoot, there are fights where having no vit/tough relegate you to doing nothing but range.
Babel, there are fights where being glass cannon and knowing the attacks of the enemies you are fighting can keep you alive with 15 points in acrobatics and glass cannon gear.
You’re both right. Chill.
Eh in the later dungeons, especially Arah you can’t go as a glass thief bar something like P/P or SB. Lupus will poop all over you for even attempting it which is why a great deal of the time thieves are under valued in dungeons: because you can’t avoid it all and thusly you need some survivability.
[Edit by Moderator, personal fight removed]
(edited by Moderator)
Isn’t the thief sword basic attack more dps than pistol whip since the nerf? if this is true the whole build (spamming pistol whips) seems pointless.
Isn’t the thief sword basic attack more dps than pistol whip since the nerf? if this is true the whole build (spamming pistol whips) seems pointless.
This is true, but PW does have some attributes that make it worth using.
1. It has much higher hit volume than using auto attack, landing more hits means more crits and consequently more procs. While sword auto will out-DPS PW, PW will vastly out-heal sword auto when using Signet of Malice. This has a multiplicative effect on multiple targets as well, the hit volume of PW on 3 targets is pretty much unmatched for thief skills. If you can land 10 hits a second then things become interesting with on-hit and on-crit effects.
2. The evade is a great way to sustain melee range in a hostile environment. Properly timed, you can keep meleeing away even when everyone else is dodging back out of the red circle.
3. Chain PWs put out a lot of dazes which are excellent for wearing down boss stun immunity without losing a lot of DPS (like Headshot spam can). You can chain PW until a target is open to control effects and then move out and use something like scorpion wire for positioning, or even preserve that vulnerable state for a while so you can interrupt an annoying ability.
The fact that auto attacks are better DPS doesn’t completely preclude the use of PW.
(edited by Tulisin.6945)