Guild Wars 2

For too long, i’ve always thought that Signet of Malice should be a lot better, especially for abilities like Pistol Whip, thieves have a lot of options, but they don’t really have anything like that since they nerfed Omnomberry Pies.

Signet of Malice
Passive: Steal health when you damage your foe.
Active: Gain Fury/Might/Swiftness
Healing: 250 (0.05) Power
Active: Gain fury, might, and swiftness.
5 Might: 25 s
Fury: 25 s
Swiftness: 25 s

This allows you to combo it with things like retaliation as well, which thieves don’t really have access to, it would be nice if there was a duelist type tanking spec that relied little on stealth and was more like a pirate then ninja.

The description for Malice is:
Desire to cause pain, injury, or distress to another, so I don’t see why it does not also steal health.

Oooooh, I’d love this lots.

Even better? Make it scale with Power, not Healing.

Man! my thief would not die, i mean ever, i would be tanker than a guardian.

I think it should scale with healing…it’s just hard where healing is in shadow arts. If you want to play, say an S/D evasion tank; you can’t really buff healing much, since you need points in acrobatics. So if you take the traits to have solid healing, you’ll also have access to stealth, and skills that make you heal/reset on stealth. Maybe if they lowered the scaling a bit and just made it a solid heal on hit.

bobross.5034:

I think it should scale with healing…it’s just hard where healing is in shadow arts. If you want to play, say an S/D evasion tank; you can’t really buff healing much, since you need points in acrobatics. So if you take the traits to have solid healing, you’ll also have access to stealth, and skills that make you heal/reset on stealth. Maybe if they lowered the scaling a bit and just made it a solid heal on hit.

This isn’t for S/D, or anything with a D offhand. Its mostly for S/P, P/P

This is mostly for 0/30/0/30/0 People.

There’s just something about 5275 healing on a 15s cooldown with passive healing that seems to much. I would literally never die.

Doomdesire.9365:

There’s just something about 5275 healing on a 15s cooldown with passive healing that seems to much. I would literally never die.

You can’t have both active/passive.

I think you misunderstood, I was saying that if you tried to make an s/d build around signet of malice, you’d still wind up relying a lot on stealth, and thereby not benefiting from the attacks.

In p/p I can see how it sort of works, but that build seems very boring to play.
I know the s/p version is popular in pve, but that is also kinda weird in other settings.

bobross.5034:

I think you misunderstood, I was saying that if you tried to make an s/d build around signet of malice, you’d still wind up relying a lot on stealth, and thereby not benefiting from the attacks.

In p/p I can see how it sort of works, but that build seems very boring to play.
I know the s/p version is popular in pve, but that is also kinda weird in other settings.

Then you would use the stealth heal instead… SoM isn’t worth using even with upgrades over the stealth heal. Honestly I would go for SoM being buffed to be even more powerful, but give revealed forever.

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

There’s just something about 5275 healing on a 15s cooldown with passive healing that seems to much. I would literally never die.

You can’t have both active/passive.

Of course not, that should have been implied

Passive will be able to sustain you for quite a while. When you start to take enough HP so that you need to heal, you still have a 5.3K heal that has a CD of 15 seconds.

Doomdesire.9365:

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

There’s just something about 5275 healing on a 15s cooldown with passive healing that seems to much. I would literally never die.

You can’t have both active/passive.

Of course not, that should have been implied

Passive will be able to sustain you for quite a while. When you start to take enough HP so that you need to heal, you still have a 5.3K heal that has a CD of 15 seconds.

We heal for 2700 every time we go into stealth with a trait, now 5.3k heal suddenly makes you rambo?

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

There’s just something about 5275 healing on a 15s cooldown with passive healing that seems to much. I would literally never die.

You can’t have both active/passive.

Of course not, that should have been implied

Passive will be able to sustain you for quite a while. When you start to take enough HP so that you need to heal, you still have a 5.3K heal that has a CD of 15 seconds.

We heal for 2700 every time we go into stealth with a trait, now 5.3k heal suddenly makes you rambo?

5.3K on top of that 2700 + life gained from passive before activation, yeah I would assume so.

Doomdesire.9365:

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

There’s just something about 5275 healing on a 15s cooldown with passive healing that seems to much. I would literally never die.

You can’t have both active/passive.

Of course not, that should have been implied

Passive will be able to sustain you for quite a while. When you start to take enough HP so that you need to heal, you still have a 5.3K heal that has a CD of 15 seconds.

We heal for 2700 every time we go into stealth with a trait, now 5.3k heal suddenly makes you rambo?

5.3K on top of that 2700 + life gained from passive before activation, yeah I would assume so.

Facepalm

You can’t ATTACK while in stealth. THE ACTIVE cancels the passive for its duration…

You cannot benefit from a signet that you gain health from attacking when your constantly in stealth.

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

There’s just something about 5275 healing on a 15s cooldown with passive healing that seems to much. I would literally never die.

You can’t have both active/passive.

Of course not, that should have been implied

Passive will be able to sustain you for quite a while. When you start to take enough HP so that you need to heal, you still have a 5.3K heal that has a CD of 15 seconds.

We heal for 2700 every time we go into stealth with a trait, now 5.3k heal suddenly makes you rambo?

5.3K on top of that 2700 + life gained from passive before activation, yeah I would assume so.

You can’t ATTACK while in stealth. THE ACTIVE cancels the passive for its duration…

You don’t seem to understand. When you look at the grand scheme of a battle, you count the total amount of HP healed during the entire fight, not the total amount of HP healed in a certain amount of time. You get a passive ability that heals for quite a bit, but then you also get an active ability as a backup. The active ability should never be that powerful.

Hell, even without the passive, your suggestion puts SoM’s active healing above that of any personal healing in the game. 8.5K guardian signet doesn’t even match the amount of healing.

tl;dr

I never said you get passive during CD, so no clue as to where you got that from. I’m telling you that you get passive healing, and THEN, active healing as a backup, which your suggestion is OP when you factor in both the passive healing before the active.

Doomdesire.9365:

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

There’s just something about 5275 healing on a 15s cooldown with passive healing that seems to much. I would literally never die.

You can’t have both active/passive.

Of course not, that should have been implied

Passive will be able to sustain you for quite a while. When you start to take enough HP so that you need to heal, you still have a 5.3K heal that has a CD of 15 seconds.

We heal for 2700 every time we go into stealth with a trait, now 5.3k heal suddenly makes you rambo?

5.3K on top of that 2700 + life gained from passive before activation, yeah I would assume so.

You can’t ATTACK while in stealth. THE ACTIVE cancels the passive for its duration…

You don’t seem to understand. When you look at the grand scheme of a battle, you count the total amount of HP healed during the entire fight, not the total amount of HP healed in a certain amount of time. You get a passive ability that heals for quite a bit, but then you also get an active ability as a backup. The active ability should never be that powerful.

Hell, even without the passive, your suggestion puts SoM’s active healing above that of any personal healing in the game. 8.5K guardian signet doesn’t even match the amount of healing.

tl;dr

I never said you get passive during CD, so no clue as to where you got that from. I’m telling you that you get passive healing, and THEN, active healing as a backup, which your suggestion is OP when you factor in both the passive healing before the active.

Since you can’t play what your saying in a real battle, TL;DR, your just wrong. sorry

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

There’s just something about 5275 healing on a 15s cooldown with passive healing that seems to much. I would literally never die.

You can’t have both active/passive.

Of course not, that should have been implied

Passive will be able to sustain you for quite a while. When you start to take enough HP so that you need to heal, you still have a 5.3K heal that has a CD of 15 seconds.

We heal for 2700 every time we go into stealth with a trait, now 5.3k heal suddenly makes you rambo?

5.3K on top of that 2700 + life gained from passive before activation, yeah I would assume so.

You can’t ATTACK while in stealth. THE ACTIVE cancels the passive for its duration…

You don’t seem to understand. When you look at the grand scheme of a battle, you count the total amount of HP healed during the entire fight, not the total amount of HP healed in a certain amount of time. You get a passive ability that heals for quite a bit, but then you also get an active ability as a backup. The active ability should never be that powerful.

Hell, even without the passive, your suggestion puts SoM’s active healing above that of any personal healing in the game. 8.5K guardian signet doesn’t even match the amount of healing.

tl;dr

I never said you get passive during CD, so no clue as to where you got that from. I’m telling you that you get passive healing, and THEN, active healing as a backup, which your suggestion is OP when you factor in both the passive healing before the active.

Since you can’t play what your saying in a real battle, TL;DR, your just wrong. sorry

you’re

Also, it seems you lack the intelligence to comprehend what I am stating, as all you’ve done is state the same thing over and over.

Look OP’s numbers… go to check stuff in the wiki just to be sure my brain wasn’t tricking me… see the posted numbers again and think “wtf this is crazy”… see the OP’s poster name… “oh well… here we go again…”

That was literally what happened, I didn’t even realize this was a Daecollo’s suegestion post (I’m really sleepy right now and I didn’t see the user name) until after going and checking numbers on other skills thinking this was just crazy.

Just the new active healing by itself is a lot (there are 40 second cooldown skills that doesn’t heal that much). Only skills able to rival it are an Elementalist skill that is a 4 seconds super easy to interrupt channel with the heal divided in pulses and a Mesmer skill that sacrifices all clones (which means sacrificing the element that a Mesmer uses to play). The mantra might rival it too but it needs pre-casting. None of them have passive healing.

But on top of that increase, you just increased the passive healing by 250% (250%!!!!!!!!!). That’s overkill on improvement. 5%… 10%… maybe (but not really neccesary)… 250% increase is crazyness in a bottle.

As others told you, the important thing with healing is the heal you get over time, not the heal you get on a very specific moment.

Currently SoM heals 1K each 10 hits (WITHOUT puting the skill on cooldown). The thief hits really fast so overtime you can get a lot of healing in the right build. You won’t have access to a spike heal if you’re bursted, but that’s part of the game. Over time that signet already heals a lot, it’s just that you don’t see all of it in a single package.

For example, one of the best survival Guardian builds (Altruistic Healing) is based on a trait that heals you 72 HP everytime you apply a boon. Applying a boon is rarer than just attacking, and most AoE boon aplications are on long cooldowns. And still all those small 72 HP packages over time make it one of the most used Guardian builds.

Getting 250 HP everytime you swing a sword or shoot a bullet is crazy considering how well that Guardian build heals.

The Thief has probably the best selection of Healing Skills in the whole game, there is absolutely no need to boost any of them. We need help in some areas but definitely not here.

Daecollo, everyone understand that you can’t have both active and passive at the same time. What doomdesire is saying, is that:

1) While not healing this SoM would give a very sustainable healing (just as you desired).
2) Once his health is going too low, he can heal himself for 5k, putting the passive (and active) on a cooldown of 15 seconds. This is (even without the passive) a very strong healing. Short cooldown while the healing is even stronger than withdraw [4.344(0.6)].

Daecollo.9578:

For too long, i’ve always thought that Signet of Malice should be a lot better, especially for abilities like Pistol Whip, thieves have a lot of options, but they don’t really have anything like that since they nerfed Omnomberry Pies.

Signet of Malice
Passive: Steal health when you damage your foe.
Active: Gain health.
Healing: 250 (0.05) Power
Healing: 5,275 (1.0) Healing Power.

This allows you to combo it with things like retaliation as well, which thieves don’t really have access to, it would be nice if there was a duelist type tanking spec that relied little on stealth and was more like a pirate then ninja.

The description for Malice is:
Desire to cause pain, injury, or distress to another, so I don’t see why it does not also steal health.

Dude that’s crazy. I know that you want pistols but this kind of healing will make the Endless Dodge build even more annoying.

At the current heal rate, the build is already annoying as it is and with this…you’re just asking for a big fat nerf bat in the face.

The only real fix on this skill is to maintain the passive when activated — that’s all.

I changed the active to be buffs instead of a heal, it more reflects the name anyways. This way if you want to use it as an active for buffs you lose out on healing.

Daecollo.9578:

I changed the active to be buffs instead of a heal, it more reflects the name anyways. This way if you want to use it as an active for buffs you lose out on healing.

Why everytime you make a sugestion, even when correcting your previous one, it has to look so OP?

So now the active effect has a 25 seconds of 5*Power, fury and swiftness on a 15 seconds recharge skill? How exactly that doesn’t sound OP to you? A Warrior wastes an Elite Skill slot on a 60 seconds cooldown for that!

Please check how the game works and the repercussions of stuff before doing this things.

And you changed it to “Steal Health when you damage your foe”… what do you mean here? Because the skill doesn’t steal health, it heals everytime you attack. Life Stealing and healing are different things. And please tell me you’re not thinking about stealing the same amount you damage with your attacks because the wording here is confusing :S

Aditionally you can’t eliminate the healing on the passive. It is a healing skill, all heal skills heal on use. It has to heal you a noticeable amount when used because it’s how the game works.

Please Daecollo, I know you have to maintain your reputation of troll OP ideas but you’re going too far and doing this you’re making all thieves as a group look crazy for anyone lurking the forums, seeing this and believing all thieves think this way.

the other issue with som, aside from reduced utility compared to the other two heals is the cast time. som’s active is painfully slow. in a thief that can barely afford to get hit twice, you start casting after getting hit once, and during that time, you’ll take at least 3k damage. it looks great on paper, but in practice, the signet feels clumsy and hard to use well.

You gave up your healing skill for some buffs that can be removed/taken away. So your out of healing for several seconds.

Daecollo.9578:

You gave up your healing skill for some buffs that can be removed/taken away. So your out of healing for several seconds.

Again:

- Not how the game works. Your heal heals you on use. If you change it you put it on the utility section, not on the sixth slot. You can’t sacrifice the healing on the healing skill to put other effects.

- You’re giving it Warrior Elite slot skill effect, with a better passive and on a 15 seconds recharge instead of 60 seconds. In which world is that supposed to be balanced?

Lokheit.7943:

Daecollo.9578:

You gave up your healing skill for some buffs that can be removed/taken away. So your out of healing for several seconds.

Again:

- Not how the game works. Your heal heals you on use. If you change it you put it on the utility section, not on the sixth slot. You can’t sacrifice the healing on the healing skill to put other effects.

- You’re giving it Warrior Elite slot skill effect, with a better passive and on a 15 seconds recharge instead of 60 seconds. In which world is that supposed to be balanced?

Its an idea, your not suppost to take it literally. Chillax.

250 heal….
Wait… That would mean… Caltrops + shortbow Cluster bombs + choking gas = around 3k heal/second

Wuhu i can now with 100 healing facetank nearly everything in dredge fractal with pistol whip at lvl 48

Totaly agree… I will never die anymore

try it out…I dont believe it works with bleeds/poison….once you try playing with it, you’ll see how (not) good it is….there are very few specific builds that use it, but it usually switches thief to hard mode.

i thought signet of malice is already the best overall heal and tons of thieves use it already?

in pve? havent seen it much in wvw or pvp….in pve you have enough control over a fight that you don’t need utility as much.

bobross.5034:

try it out…I dont believe it works with bleeds/poison….once you try playing with it, you’ll see how (not) good it is….there are very few specific builds that use it, but it usually switches thief to hard mode.

ehhh it works… I usually use it when I play with pugs.. Cluster Bomb = 1500 heal, Caltrops = 500 heal/sec → 5000 heal in 10s, Choking Gas = 500 heal/sec → 1500 heal in 3s
Daggerstorm = full heal :P

Anubarak.3012:

bobross.5034:

try it out…I dont believe it works with bleeds/poison….once you try playing with it, you’ll see how (not) good it is….there are very few specific builds that use it, but it usually switches thief to hard mode.

ehhh it works… I usually use it when I play with pugs.. Cluster Bomb = 1500 heal, Caltrops = 500 heal/sec -> 5000 heal in 10s, Choking Gas = 500 heal/sec -> 1500 heal in 3s
Daggerstorm = full heal :P

Just to clarify it’s not that it works on each condition tick, it’s that everytime one of those skills pulses and affects multiple opponents it counts as an attack for each one. So yep, in the proper setup as he said it’s a pretty amazing healing skill.

Seriously we have one of the best selections of healing skills in the whole game to the point you don’t know which one to pick in many cases, let’s focus on sugestions for something that really help

It’s strong as it is. If anything I’d rather instead of healing on the activation it purged conditions or something.

IMO, they should just remove the activation of the skill and if it was proved to be a little too good they can just reduce the active healing down to 3k or something.

Or they can add a new Grandmaster trait(ex: XI or XII) to Critical Strikes line by making it improve the passive on Signet. Makes the trait to grant SoM steal life instead of just heal on passive while keeping the number the same.

interesting….thanks for the education guys, I suppose it works really well in condition/tank builds?

Malice is not bad as heals go. The reason it is not favored atm is because of the way thieves build, how heavily they rely on stealth for defense BECAUSE OF THE WAY THEY BUILD, and how freekin insanely good hide in shadows is.

I mean cmon a modest to good direct heal, added regen, removes burning/bleeding/poison, AND stealths you on a 30 second timer? It’s quite literally one of the best heals in the game, if not the best and it works well for every build.

Ralathar.7236:

Malice is not bad as heals go. The reason it is not favored atm is because of the way thieves build, how heavily they rely on stealth for defense BECAUSE OF THE WAY THEY BUILD, and how freekin insanely good hide in shadows is.

This. Thief heals are pretty well balanced and each has their synergies. Withdraw has the best healing under constant activation, SoM has Signet-synergy that allows you to activate it extra often for “on-heal” effects, neither of which are things that HiS boasts.

Put it on auto activate and gain permanent Fury, Swiftness and 10 stacks of Might for 10 seconds every 15 seconds and 5 stacks the remaining time.

So, you want to give Thieve’s a Signet of Rage that’s far superior with that massive healing you gave it (at 2K power you would get 350 health per hit, with Pistol Whip thats 3500 health every time you use it, and could get 3500 X 3 = 10500 health every 3 seconds or so).

You just complained about the Warrior’s Signet of Rage giving boons for too long thus being too easy to steal and now you want a heal to do the same thing. It would be too OP.

Grok Krog.9581:

So, you want to give Thieve’s a Signet of Rage that’s far superior with that massive healing you gave it (at 2K power you would get 350 health per hit, with Pistol Whip thats 3500 health every time you use it, and could get 3500 X 3 = 10500 health every 3 seconds or so).

You just complained about the Warrior’s Signet of Rage giving boons for too long thus being too easy to steal and now you want a heal to do the same thing. It would be too OP.

? What does that have to do with SoR?